are you an atheist?

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are you?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
yes 83
no40


Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 03:46 (twelve years ago) link

just answer!!

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 03:54 (twelve years ago) link

hmm. Can't even guess what these results will look like.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 03:55 (twelve years ago) link

i don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. i don't know what they'll look like.

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 03:56 (twelve years ago) link

I predict ILX is 80-90% atheist.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:00 (twelve years ago) link

well we've only got 1 day so let's see =P

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:01 (twelve years ago) link

i just asked a friend about this and she's now furiously IMing me the history of religion. in a conversational way, not a missionary way.

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:03 (twelve years ago) link

it's exciting.

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:03 (twelve years ago) link

missionary gets a bad rap.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:04 (twelve years ago) link

This is a bit of a flawed question, because saying "no" implies you're religious, which isn't true.

I'm not an athiest. But I'm not religious at all. So what do I answer?

Trayce, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:05 (twelve years ago) link

no

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:06 (twelve years ago) link

atheism = no theism

Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:06 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, I'm actually guessing a lot of "no"s from people like me who find mainstream religion obnoxious but can't quite commit to something as absolute as atheism.

adamj, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:07 (twelve years ago) link

I get what Trayce is saying, tho, because when someone says "I'm an atheist" there's a terrible moment where you just KNOW their next words will be "and Ayn Rand is a great thinker."

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:08 (twelve years ago) link

I'm now starting to consider myself an atheist.

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:10 (twelve years ago) link

I'm too wishywashy to be that bald about it, like my ex is. He's of the "when you die you die, there is no soul, we're all atoms" persuasion, and I still have a smidge of "but what if...?" in me I guess. Not a god thing - more like a "hey how do we explain human thought and reason and collective unconcious and etc etc?" stuff.

Trayce, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:12 (twelve years ago) link

Hahah also Kenan is otm.

Trayce, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:12 (twelve years ago) link

i don't consider myself an atheist or a believer of a capital G God, more of in an abstract higher power of some sort

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:13 (twelve years ago) link

lol i am in college

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:13 (twelve years ago) link

i voted yes for the basis of this poll tho

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:13 (twelve years ago) link

I'm atheist and Ayn Rand is a great plonker.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:16 (twelve years ago) link

Privately, I am completely hostile to the idea of religion. Dawkins-like. It's ludicrous, dangerous, and counter in every way to what I believe should be all of humanity's goal of calmly and productively sharing the planet. But I really try to keep all that under wraps. What good does it do to express it openly?

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:16 (twelve years ago) link

Not a god thing - more like a "hey how do we explain human thought and reason and collective unconcious and etc etc?" stuff.

I wonder about this all the time but adding God into the equation doesn't really solve much of anything!

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:16 (twelve years ago) link

you didn't have to kenan! it's a poll not an inquisition

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:17 (twelve years ago) link

=P

Surmounter, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:17 (twelve years ago) link

how do we explain non-human thought?

Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:18 (twelve years ago) link

In some way that does not involve the interpolation of imagined deities.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:20 (twelve years ago) link

how do we explain non-human thought?

heh... beg the question much?

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:21 (twelve years ago) link

for a while, i was all agnostic, then atheist, now i don't really care anymore. no one knows shit in the long run.

latebloomer, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:30 (twelve years ago) link

and anyone who does think they know, whether they be a christian fundie or militant atheist, irritates the snot out of me.

latebloomer, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:31 (twelve years ago) link

so i guess that makes me uber-agnostic?

latebloomer, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:32 (twelve years ago) link

i'll cop to being "non-theist" though.

latebloomer, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:32 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, but the devout believe they DO know shit, that's what's dangerous about them! If everyone thought like you, it wouldn't be a problem.

that was four xposts

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:33 (twelve years ago) link

militant atheist

Unlike the xtian fundie, I kinda feel like the "militant atheist" is as much of a strawman as the "feminazi." Defending science and rational thought is not a form of dogma, and Oh god we have had this discussion SO. MANY. TIMES.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:38 (twelve years ago) link

I see militant atheists as those people who insist on badgering the fuck out of religious people in the hope that they just stop being religious. Hence a valid term imo.

Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:42 (twelve years ago) link

Where does this happen? And if anywhere, how is it bugging you?

I wouldn't even care about xtian fundies if not for the fact that they have controlled the government for the last eight years.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:44 (twelve years ago) link

unless you mean those snooty pricks who want to teach evolution in school...

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:45 (twelve years ago) link

It doesn't bug me.

Where does it happen? The internet.

Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:46 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah I hate it when the powerful badger the powerless.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:47 (twelve years ago) link

Powerful Badger The Powerless: A new, self-contradictory superhero from Japan.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:50 (twelve years ago) link

I'd describe myself as a non-militant atheist. We do exist.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:52 (twelve years ago) link

WAHT? You mean you're not even armed?

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:53 (twelve years ago) link

xp It's already in my spazbook profile.

Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:53 (twelve years ago) link

yeah how is dawkins not a scarecrow dancing as yr strawman? strawman? a good friend of mine trades his atheist tracts with the christian door knockers. which i think is pretty funny actually. he's really friendly about it.

msp, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:54 (twelve years ago) link

I was a militant atheist once, but I sort of demobbed myself. Those who say that militant atheism is somewhat dogmatic and indicative of an authoritarian personality, no so far from a fundie, have a point.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:56 (twelve years ago) link

xpost Well, I don't go around acting like Dawkins. I don't think he's wrong about much though, it's just that his approach is futile and even counter to his desired effect. Being the poster boy for angry anti-God scientists is a foolish thing to be, especially seeing as how "anti-God scientists" are not otherwise organized in any way.

kenan, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:57 (twelve years ago) link

I'm a militant agnostic - I don't know / can't prove anything and neither can anyone else.

joygoat, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:58 (twelve years ago) link

There have been enough ppl on here who have quite aggressively knocked the likes of ANairn, Dee, and Kiwi to make me think militant/Dawkins style athieism is plenty prevalent.

I'm with Latebloomer tho I think - we Just Don't Know shit (even with science's best).

Trayce, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 04:59 (twelve years ago) link

Yes, I'm inclined to agree.

moley, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 05:02 (twelve years ago) link

I've never been militant, but I've had some rather heated arguments with fundies regarding the foundation (or lack thereof) of their beliefs. Usually in response to them querying my stance, which is very easily defensible.

Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 05:03 (twelve years ago) link

I am agnostic rather than atheist, but think there should be more of a space for spirituality within traditionally secular left spaces. This isn't something I'm thinking in a particularly prescriptive way and may already be happening to some extent

anvil, Sunday, 2 August 2020 04:56 (one week ago) link

What a bizarre thread to choose to yell at silby, the one where he’s levelheadedly explaining how some of us are acting ignorantly.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Sunday, 2 August 2020 05:02 (one week ago) link

Okay now I'm the drunk one but Silbs you are making a huge leap into the question of iconography from "prevailing conception"—I thought it was evident that "old bearded guy" was proverbial and not referring to thundercloud guy in the comics.

While God gets the masculine gender in Biblical Hebrew

This is a *lot* to handwave considering the question. The Abrahamic god is literally a "he" who begets man in his image—a man. The distinction is evidently important enough that a woman could only be created in turn by that man. It's patriarchy's big bang.

“Punishing father” doesn’t really resemble the conception of God that I or other actual extant Jews of my acquaintance would be likely to describe.

I can't argue this, but can only wonder why...? I mean these are people who have read the Pentateuch? Man-god is smiting everything in site!

The father-son construct is central to the messianic conception...men descended from men, the line of Abraham through Jacob, all the way down the line. Jesus wasn't a Christian. There weren't any Christians! He was a Jew drafting in father/son mythology that dovetailed with prophecy.

DADS I say!

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 07:49 (one week ago) link

Option should have been "God no"

Mark G, Sunday, 2 August 2020 08:41 (one week ago) link

Hadrian I’m taking a long long break after this post that I will use to implore you for a last time to not say “Abrahamic” in instances when you mean “Christian”. The Jewish and Muslim gods begat no sons. And the religion the supposed Yeshuah ben Yosef grew up in is not the one Jews practice now. You are unwittingly (I hope) trotting our anti-Semitic commonplaces and you should stop.

Ok goodbye forever!

all cats are beautiful (silby), Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:36 (one week ago) link

I think he's talking about Adam there not Jesus?

Sonny Shamrock (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:47 (one week ago) link

i'm not interested in entering this madhouse but there is a very real difference between begat and created

À la recherche du scamps perdu (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:50 (one week ago) link

Of course, but then the rest of the paragraph doesn't make any sense.

Sonny Shamrock (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:51 (one week ago) link

Though I'm not sure it does with 'created' either.

Sonny Shamrock (Tom D.), Sunday, 2 August 2020 11:52 (one week ago) link

What a bizarre thread to choose to yell at silby, the one where he’s levelheadedly explaining how some of us are acting ignorantly.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)

can't imagine how that would get anyone's goat at all :)

nb i am actually pro-silby, in general

Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 2 August 2020 14:45 (one week ago) link

silby I'm not gonna pretend to understand what has set you off here...I imagine this is a hangover from recent shitshow on multiple other threads? It seems like a weird issue to make your *last straw* but maybe it's just a response to Tombot's chastening.

I appreciate you and your schtick and felt kind of bad about your last ban. It is a little bit weird though from someone who regularly and indiscriminately tosses bombs and steamrolls threads with generalizations (I think most of us take that in stride) to totally wilt at this one.

implore you for a last time to not say “Abrahamic” in instances when you mean “Christian”.

I don't mean Christian though. I mean Abrahamic. These religions share the same creation myth and a lot more. (I did get ahead of my thoughts as NV points out with "begat"^—drunkenly conflating the biblical line of "begetting" w/ god "creating" man," but the point stands—there's a persistent theme of male parentage across the big three monotheistic religions. Not sure how that is even remotely controversial.

Anyway this isn't about personal views. I know a lot of Christians who reject the notion of an anthropomorphized god—it doesn't mean that "old bearded guy in sky" doesn't prevail in the popular conception.

I may be wrong but this seems at bottom more of a political objection on your part—an understandable disdain for Christianity that encourages you to imagine it as more apart from its neighboring faiths than it really is.

All of these religions are dumb btw

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 15:13 (one week ago) link

(^this last with apologies from a preacher's kid—and former editor of a journal abt religions)

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 15:17 (one week ago) link

Full disclosure: I admit it was lazy and cheap to appear to conflate Abrahamic visions of the godhead into Beard Dude. If that was what set silby off, I take responsibility and will flay myself appropriately in private.

I was (and am) aware of the prohibitions in Judaism and Islam about depictions of the deity; in a moment of rapid typing I engaged in an act of casual shorthand.

So, with that out of the way: I strongly disagree that the assembled ilxor heathens are only addressing Christianity. For me? Adonai, Aphrodite, and Apollo are all on equally shaky ground and have not hesitated to say so. Personally I've been exactly as dismissive of Norse gods as I am of Jehovah. I'm an equal-opportunity god-mocker.

I am still fuzzy on the gravamen of silby's charge of antisemitism. Is it somehow antisemitic to be an atheist or agnostic if your rejection is limited to rejections of Christian doctrine? (By which I mean, the doctrine that is currently obscenely prevalent in US culture?)

Okay. I am happy to state that I am just as contemptuous of the ancient Babylonian gods as I am of the god worshipped by Mike Huckabee and Jerry Falwell.

Does that help?

pizzagnostic (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 2 August 2020 15:33 (one week ago) link

here just choosing to ignore the antisemitism charge because wtaf

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 15:42 (one week ago) link

I don't get what silby did itt that was so bad. And I think it's weird that no one commented on this post, which strikes me as egregiously worrying mod behavior (at least I assume Tombot is a mod based on his access to fp totals?):

I am giving you advice. you have nearly 40 fps. you are generally disliked. consider your approach.

― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:24 AM (eleven hours ago)

I think mods warning posters when they're accruing fps can be a kind gesture, but surely it should be done privately, not as a public threat intended to get a poster to alter their posting in a way the mod approves of and certainly not accompanied by stating "you are generally disliked" like it's a fact.

rob, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:10 (one week ago) link

The only religious explanation I would be OK with is "god is an evil irrational sadist".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:11 (one week ago) link

fwiw I don't think the antisemitism charge was directed at atheists at all. It was directed at the "whatever" dismissal of the differences between the Abrahamic religions, and prioritising of Christian conceptions as emblematic of all Abrahamic religions. While I don't think the intent was at all antisemitic or Islamophobic on your parts, such dismissal of difference as insignificant is *definitely* part of the Christocentric thinking that leads to structural antisemitism and Islamophobia.

emil.y, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:14 (one week ago) link

"whatever" dismissal of the differences between the Abrahamic religions, and prioritising of Christian conceptions as emblematic of all Abrahamic religions

nobody itt doing this though

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:16 (one week ago) link

I admit it was lazy and cheap to appear to conflate Abrahamic visions of the godhead into Beard Dude. If that was what set silby off, I take responsibility and will flay myself appropriately in private.

I was (and am) aware of the prohibitions in Judaism and Islam about depictions of the deity; in a moment of rapid typing I engaged in an act of casual shorthand.

Like, this is INCREDIBLY dismissive of someone's religion, you realise that? And yes, I know you're dismissing all religions because this is a thread about atheism, but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity. "Oh, I'm just ignoring facets of your religion for my own convenience, what could be wrong with that?"

emil.y, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:18 (one week ago) link

"Oh, I'm just ignoring facets of your religion for my own convenience, what could be wrong with that?"

This is the entire history of religion iirc.

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:20 (one week ago) link

Why do religious people give a shit that a non believer dismisses their religion

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:24 (one week ago) link

Fair point, pom.

Granny, because it can have real-world consequences? And often has? And in fact still does?

In answer to the original question, I'm pragmatically atheist and philosophically agnostic, funnily enough for a lot of the same reasons YMP and Hadrian give, except that I'm not "contemptuous" of other people's gods, I just don't believe in them.

emil.y, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:26 (one week ago) link

silby otm

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:27 (one week ago) link

I know you're dismissing all religions because this is a thread about atheism, but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity.

I don't know abt YMP but I'm not dismissing or diminishing any religions. And I'm not an atheist. I was addressing a pretty obvious commonality among the three major monotheistic religions which have a sacred text in common.

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:30 (one week ago) link

Religious ppl perpetually getting offended at every perceived slight tends to be the thing that has the real world consequences tho

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:31 (one week ago) link

The bearded dude conception of God is not an "obvious commonality." Even in the Christian Bible there's not a physical description of God that describes Him as having a beard iirc.

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:33 (one week ago) link

no shit

a paternalistic god is the obvious commonality.

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:35 (one week ago) link

Oh, sorry Hadrian, I think I was confusing some of your posts with agreeing with YMP's in a way that meant you were agreeing with the dismissal (re-opening the full thread makes my computer chug too much). I think you can argue for the similarity without being "like, whatever, shorthand" offensive, but it's still worth listening to someone who is obviously pretty offended by the conflations being made.

emil.y, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:35 (one week ago) link

We're all just culturally appropriating Zoroastrianism.

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:36 (one week ago) link

^truth

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:37 (one week ago) link

this thread makes me embarrassed to be an atheist

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:37 (one week ago) link

xxp s'okay

singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:38 (one week ago) link

"but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity."

So does one need to be a religious scholar and constantly take the time to include every single religion in the discussion to not be culturally insensitive? Christianity is by far the dominant religion in my culture. I haven't diminished other religions, that's already been done for me.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:41 (one week ago) link

It's often useful even necessary to conflate disparate and contradictory traditions for the purposes of talking about more than one small thing at once but it's definitely worth being mindful of what you're doing and that its p weird to conflate all the strands of any religion when you think about it

rumpy riser (ogmor), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:43 (one week ago) link

if you're going to take the time to actively slag off on a religion, or anything else really, it's good to at least know what you're talking about

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:44 (one week ago) link

Yes but the bar of "knowing what you're talking about" is set by religious people. I have zero interest in the intricacies of their silly beliefs. I don't need to know every little detail of juggaloism to form an opinion of it and mock it.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:48 (one week ago) link

I mean you had me at "I'm positive their is/are supernatural being(s) that created the universe". It usually gets sillier and more bizarre from there, but I find the starting point worthy of being dismissed

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:51 (one week ago) link

*there

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:52 (one week ago) link

And mind you your point is the exact same one made by gun nuts

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:52 (one week ago) link

Find myself tapping the sign


I tried to flag one of silby’s posts but got an error message saying “where’s the lie tho”

― Garu you just posted flange (wins), Monday, 9 March 2020 08:39 (four months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rishi don’t lose my voucher (wins), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:53 (one week ago) link

Theres all sorts of fine distinctions within categories like "atheist" and "gentile" that will inevitably escape the ppl that use them but they're still useful, as ever the key q is what are the differences that make a difference

rumpy riser (ogmor), Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:56 (one week ago) link

xp: Bearded guy on a throne goes back to Zoroastrian depictions of Ahura Mazda.
https://www.crystalinks.com/ZHoldingSunDisc.jpg

If anything, the Islamic prohibitions on depicting the divine are far more conducive to belief in modern life. Bearded guy is just fodder for Pythonesque mockery.

Sanpaku, Sunday, 2 August 2020 16:57 (one week ago) link

I don't need to know every little detail of juggaloism to form an opinion of it and mock it.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, August 2, 2020 4:48 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This would be a grave mistake, as juggalos are generally extremely dope and right about things.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Sunday, 2 August 2020 17:17 (one week ago) link

Zeus was also a supreme male god who was often depicted as bearded and enthroned.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Sunday, 2 August 2020 17:17 (one week ago) link

I'm not unfolding 2200 posts but I'm just going to say silby probably otm.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Sunday, 2 August 2020 17:18 (one week ago) link

Everything was fine until we stopped worshipping the Löwenmensch figurine and the Venus of Willendorf.

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 August 2020 17:27 (one week ago) link

In truth, if you were to unfold those 2200 posts and read them, mixed in among the zings and mutual incomprehension you'd find some very interesting and competent discussion of a subject that is rarely approached in that spirit.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Sunday, 2 August 2020 17:41 (one week ago) link

I still worship Willendorf girl. Well no, but I do have the replica keychain.

Sanpaku, Sunday, 2 August 2020 21:06 (one week ago) link

This would be a grave mistake, as juggalos are generally extremely dope and right about things.

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit)

one might even say they are... 2 dope

Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 2 August 2020 21:45 (one week ago) link


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