Anticipating DOLLHOUSE

Yes. and with only five minutes of commercials!

They were filming this in my neighborhood a couple weeks ago. Am curious.

I'm not sure that the premise is enough to carry a show. I'm also not sure that Eliza can carry a show (I'm pretty sure she can't, actually).

It's also got Olivia Williams! Then again, it has that generic IT hipster-geek character archetype which has been showing up on too many shows, too.

I'm almost positive this show will fail (ratings-wise), but even with my reservations as to the premise, I think Joss Whedon has done enough in his time to deserve the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20200712,00.html

"A typical episode will see Dushku cycle through three to four personas, making for a wild mix of moods and genres. ''The other day I shot scenes for a 1940s musical dance number and a Mexican spaghetti Western — just for the pilot episode,'' says Whedon, kicking back on a plush couch under the stairwell of Dollhouse's set. Says Dushku: ''It's really perfect for my personality, which is kind of ADD. "

Joe Haldeman should sue the fuck out of Whedon for stealing All My Sins Remembered.

Anyone who enjoys the work of Joss Whedon should be shot.

Although I look forward to the usual delusional stans coming up with "THE STUDIO KILLED THIS MASTERPIECE" gurblings when this is cancelled after three weeks.

I hear that it turns out that Dushku is actually Dazzler.

Dom's ass-stick RIP ;_;

much as i love buffy this looks terrible

So what do you guys think?

im willing to give this show half a season to make up for its stupid-ass premise.

wow this is dire. i don't even particularly like Whedon but i kind of assumed it'd be at least watchable.

as a serious buffy stan i have to say i have practically no desire to this thing. looks terrible.

what did YOU think mordy

I was pretty disappointed. I think it's a step back from Firefly in terms of characterization, and about as 'cute' as Buffy, without any of the interesting mythos/relationships as that show. I'm willing to give it time to develop, just cause I'm such a huge Whedon fan (particularly after his run on Astonishing X-Men), but I wasn't particularly thrilled by the pilot.

a problem with this show is that eliza dushku can't act. i will keep watching, though.

Apparently, Dollhouse's crapulence is all the fault of the network. They just couldn't keep from fucking it up, according to the Whedon interview in the new Rolling Stone.

(in short, midway through production they stuck their nose in it, he shut down production, they apologized, he returned, and they kept sticking their nose in it)

Have you guys seen the first episodes of Buffy and Firefly? Whedon does not start strong. His projects depend so much on character development and relationships, and you're just not going to get that in the first 60 minutes.

That's what I worry about with this project. How can you develop relationships when the main character is basically in a perpetual state of amnesia?

ya exactly

im sure he has some big plan for her "real" personality to emerge tho

this was more watchable than i thought it wd be

You must have not been expecting much.

i really really wasn't!

It was about as watch-able at the average Heroes episode.

I thought the episode was okay, though the motorcycle chase/yay prostitution! intro was really obviously shoehorned in by the network compared to the rather creepy/human trafficking vibe most of the show put off. But yeah, it's Whedon - I'm sticking this through until it dies, and don't expect it to get good until several episodes in, anyway. He mentioned that for the first 5-7 episodes he's keeping them accessible so new viewers aren't deluged with backstory, so the good stuff probably won't start coming in until then.

I saw DOLLHOUSE as Joss in post-Goddard mode--as relentlessly, quietly cold and insular and hopeless as "Objects in Space" without that FIREFLY ep's final assurance.

I mean, successful TV is almost always about literal or metaphorical families. Joss has made a cottage industry doing alt-families and hence the cult following. DOLLHOUSE, as it sets itself up, is like a cool-surfaced explosion of any familial assurances or connection. It's pretty much the opposite of TV narrative.

The FBI guy is a lonely obsessive. The Dollhouse queenpin is an icy enigma. The enforcer is alone in his self-delusion. Amy Acker is a scarred ghost-person in the shadows. Programmer dude is a moral-free monster-boy. Echo is cut off from her own ID and any human connections that may have had. Every week she'll be cut off from her self. Every imprinted persona will 'die.' We'll keep hearing from and maybe seeing the people her IDs are stolen from--more de-familiarized ghosts.

Style-wise, this is *radically* different from anything Joss has done. No elegant one-shots or old cinematic style. Lots of glistening surfaces, purposefully jarring editing, characters wandering in and out of shadows, no reassuringly designed tempo changes. When we first saw Echo as the negotiation character, it was in anti-TV poetic long shot. And when she recalled her abuse memory, Joss again went for the artistically motivated long shot--Echo is very far from Echo and Joss is shooting her that way. And while her name may seem too on-the-money genre-wise, it's a wonderful choice when you think music-wise: an echo is the repeat of an original sound except more faint, slightly distorted, in every way less than the original.

One assumes the show will be about these elements in some way connecting with something, but I'm thinking it'll be relentlessly grim with everyone as alone, deluded, disassociated as DR HORRIBLE except without the songs and funny.

For real? I give FOX huge props for going for what's basically art house TV. I hope their bean counters can keep in mind how much money this will make over the years on all the different platforms and media.

That reading is much more interesting than the episode I saw.

fr reals

tried to watch this but couldn't be bothered after 15 minutes of it. will prob try again when rly bored.

That reading of it seems like what the pitch could be, but the real episode was really disjoint and poorly edited/acted.

yeah...it really just felt like yet another hollow, unengaging FOX sci fi pilot, like Fringe with a much smaller budget. i never woulda guessed a writer/creator with a good reputation was attached to the project had i not known already.

my main question is why would someone engage this agency's services for anything except hookering? like if your daughter is kidnapped WHY would you hire these guys and NOT an actual professional??

Because they're better than real professionals because they cram all the knowledge of multiple people into one! But they're also disposable because you can just program someone new if they get shot, right?

a problem with this show is that eliza dushku can't act

^^ most wonderfully loaded use of the indefinite vs. definite article

This whole thing is in a genre I don't think Whedon's good and should stay away from -- I feel like there were times when Angel would vaguely start bordering into this kind of high-tech "sexy" intrigue stuff, and it was never much good. I'm kind of afraid this whole thing will be like watching a string of She Spies episodes written by an undergrad who just declared in philosophy. On the other hand, so much of the stuff he's setting up with mutable personalities and designed personalities is stuff he's been great with in the past (I mean, it's so recurring throughout his stuff that I stopped typing a parenthetical list of examples, since it'd take forever), so ... I think I can afford to save this for low-pressure Saturday-morning viewings.

But yeah, if I had to cast someone to believably take on vastly different personas within the space of one episode, Dushku is pretty much the last person I'd think of. I'm also consistently fascinated by the way that Whedon stuff always winds up casting specific types who run through everything, to the point where they even look similar: River and Faith standing next to each other presenting this show, with Amy Acker in it ... you start wondering what Nathan Fillion's doing that he's not playing the FBI guy in this.

But yeah, if I had to cast someone to believably take on vastly different personas within the space of one episode, Dushku is pretty much the last person I'd think of

i heard a tiny snippet of whedon's recent fresh air interview and it happened to be the snippet where he said, "part of the reason i wanted to do this show was to show people what a versatile actress Eliza is, which i don't think enough people know" and i was like, maybe people don't know that because it is entirely false. i have residual fondness for her because of Buffy, and she is v v pretty btw, but really.

are you saying that Whedon has stock characters, and a revolving repertory of actors he likes to use, and that that is fascinating to you?

xpost

of course i will watch this show until it dies and that helo from battlestar is also very beautiful and can't act so this show is pretty to look at at least.

whedon definitely has actor TYPES he goes for

the angel - riley - filion - helo bo-hunk type

one of those men is not like the others

you start wondering what Nathan Fillion's doing that he's not playing the FBI guy in this.

Some banter-y bullcrap, crime writer on permanent ride-along with sexxxy cop, starts March 9.

I watched it while working on a sewing project so it seemed okay. If I was giving it my full attention, I might have more of a problem with it.

are the words "banter-y bullcrap" supposed to differentiate a non-Whedon project from a Whedon project?

^^ skeptical of joss whedon!!

i like banter-y bull crap, i'm just saying

olivia williams' characters' clothes are awesome
and her hair and makeup
like i think i subconsciously flattened out my hair like hers today
xp

those crazy high-waisted skirts and amazing silk blouses

she was fascinating

omg i pulled out a high-waisted skirt to wear to a dinner party earlier this week! i am so easily hypnotized!

what other oliva accoutrements haven't you told us about, rrobyn lol :D

beneath my cold, no-nonsense exterior is a compassionate heart; it just takes several episodes to uncover

i quite liked it when they went with 'and beneath that compassionate shell is a cold, no-nonsense interior'

btw everyone should watch Cabin in the Woods, it recycles two of the actors and has some Dollhouse-esque moments

Actually, according to what I just read, Cabin in the Woods was filmed in 2009 between the two seasons of Dollhouse o_O

Topher's collapsible bong/travel mug is A+

they should patent that thing

i will have to watch Cabin in the Woods

also, srsly, olivia williams, you so pretty

there are very few people esp celebs who i wish i looked more like, but she's one of them

the other thing that works for Dollhouse is the vaguely Twin Peaks-like music that comes on in certain 'mysterious'/emotional scenes. i suspect that was on purpose.

― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Monday, October 1, 2012 3:20 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i was wondering if anyone else noticed this, it's pretty subtle, this little rising melody, always makes me think of TP.

not sure if the dollhouse underground hq qualifies as a good place for a noize colony

noize on ludes hq

I finished watching this

I liked the attic bits and the twist of who the company founder was

For sure. Attic was good & warped, I mean, for tv anyway

attic was scary

Tho the plastic wrap was lol

'we're pimps and killers... but in a philanthropic way. can i go now?'

this is better than i thought. when it first aired i was sort of disappointed, for some of the reasons floating around at the time. the second time around some of the annoyances seem less important, like helo's where-is-the-dollhouse plot, or the mooning from millie. maybe it helps if you shotgun it.

but eliza dushku actually does a pretty good job, especially if you look past the engagement-of-the-week parts of the plots in the first season. she's capable of more subtleties than she's given credit for.

enver gjokaj is great. whenever he has a different persona to play it's always very precise and distinct from other things he does.

i didn’t want to continue cluttering the buffy thread talking about how good this show is but yo this show is so good, it really does hold up

it’s also been eight years since i first watched it, yet my ears pricked up during season 1 episode 11 when dominic (in victor’s body) calls dr. saunders “whiskey” and it’s played off as him wanting a drink!!!!!!! wow!!!!!!!

i love this show very much, i should rewatch

'we're pimps and killers... but in a philanthropic way. can i go now?'

― j., Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:59 PM (eight years ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is such a great line

In addition to everything else, the cast is so, so good. Fran Kranz, Dichen Lachmann, Enver Gjokaj, Olivia Williams - all great actors, and I don't know if Reed Diamond is a great actor, exactly, but I love him.

It's weird to me that people (like for instance my housemate) reflexively assume Dollhouse is sexist and exploitative but will happily watch Westworld, which is much worse imo.

dichen lachmann is INCREDIBLE

It's shocking to me that she and Enver Gjokaj haven't been cast in everything; like, what is Dollhouse if not a series of audition tapes for every role under the sun?

otm!

Enver Gokaj was in Agent Carter too, i love him - he is so fucking great in everything he does

he’s really funny in the episode where he has to play a federal agent on the college campus, sometimes the verisimilitude with which they enact their performances is like... lightly parodic, in a good way? especially when they get implanted with badass mercenary personalities lol

i am nearing the end of season one and i am so excited to relive “epitaph one”. ugh..... cinema (actually television)

i think the single worst thing that happens in the first season is the "black president" line in episode 12

epitaph one is a masterpiece though. topher :(((((

"that's so brilliant. why didn't i think of that. .... did i think of that? .... did i? ... oh god... oh my god"

i'm kiki

does this show feel grosser now that all the stuff about Whedon came out? it was creepy enough during its run, i'm afraid it might just make it worse if i rewatched the series today

i am watching this despite wishing joss whedon would explode and it's fine

victor/sierra 4ever

completely forgot about summer glau's character and how much i loved her

shes so great in this

one of the things i also forgot (and one of the few things i dislike about the show) is the tendency toward Slow Motion Pop Song Montage after anything climactic happens. this may be my own private war against television idk. but also iirc the later seasons of buffy were heavily afflicted with the SMPSM as well

No love for Lizzie's "Everywhere I Go"? ;)

that's one of the best ones for sure, i do love her

enver gjokaj imitating fran kranz is probably my favorite instance of acting in this show lol

the attic episode rips

it's like basically the season four finale of buffy but in the dollhouse world and that's my jam

Also Reed Diamond is back in that episode and I love him.

amazingly, i had forgotten the big twist

"you're here 'cause you're my family. i love you guys"

this is the best show ever

they sure did not have the budget to blow up a building in the penultimate episode tho lol

topher :((((((