Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

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Because DG demanded it! Who's your favorite captain/commander: Pike, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, or Archer? Did you read any of those books? How are the movies? Spock vs Data: who wins? Etc.

Dan Perry, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Here we go. *cracks knuckles*

Never watched the original series much (wasn't alive at the time of the originals, don't recall seeing the reruns), but became a fan of the movies when they started. Fell into things fully when TNG began (watched from the first episode to the last) and still followed those films, though after starting with both Deep Space Nine and Voyager I gave them up fully in late 1995 and never looked back. Have a couple of the, ahem, 'technical manuals' around the place but that's about it -- the other books I've avoided. Have no costumes, have always avoided any kind of conventions general or specific, take cruel pleasure in laughing at Shatner's follies in the fifth movie, as should we all (the fake MST version is the only one to see, frankly).

Unsurprisingly, Picard is my fave (I was actually a Patrick Stewart fan already), but both Avery Brooks and Kate Mulgrew did excellent jobs in their Sisko and Janeway roles. Scott Bakula as Archer just scares me as a concept. TNG cast my favorite ensemble bunch, though I will give it up (oh yes) for George Takei, Nichelle Nichols, DeForest Kelley, Leonard Nimoy, Terri Farrell, Alexander Siddiq, Rene Auberjonois, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran and Robert Picardo. Data ist rad. And so forth.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I didn't demand it, I just said I was *expecting* it. I shall answer the question myself after a few more posts.

DG, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

what is this rubbish about kirk not being the best captain? i watched star trek II the other night, it is clearly the greatest film of all time. singular episodes of the original series make up my childhood. i remember my parents watching the next generation when it premiered and thinking, what is this boring crap? whereas wrath of khan scared me so bad i couldn't sleep (the bug- in-ear part, naturally). deep space nine and voyager are even worse. it's like if they made 'the prisoner: the next generation' with some bald dumbass replacing mcgoohan, and then made two more that were even worse shit. the original is one of the greatest television shows of all time and now it has been diluted to a bad punchline by greedy cash-ins. fuck paramount.

ethan, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The official DG view:
Original Series: Classic, except for most of season 3, which was poo.
Next Generation: Dud until 'Best Of Both Worlds', then got quite good.
Deep Space Nine: Undecided, it hasn't really grabbed me but the last season is on BBC2 at the moment and that's quite good I suppose.
Voyager: Dud with occasional Classic moments.
Films: I like most of them, especially II and III, but V, VII and IX are dud.
Basically I like the original best, like Ethan it was wot I watched when a tiny (on Friday nights at my grandparents' house while parents were off doing weekly food shop), but even now I still find it is more enjoyable and has a lot more charm than recent Trek (my Trekkie aunt recently dumped her entire collection of Original Series vids and other stuff on me, not that I'm ungrateful). Voyager is, in general, a travesty (how many shuttles do they have? how many crewmen? how many times must they end up in a temporal warp/unknown energy field etc) with a few redeeming features, but I don't think that it bodes well for the future. I'll give the new Trek series a chance, but I'm almost certain it will be *even worse* than Voyager. I mean, Quantum Leap bloke? Pffff.

DG, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's funny how they could never emulate the visual timelessness of the original series. the wonderful set design, the flat grey interiors, the uniforms, it all seemed RIGHT. whereas all series afterwards have used beige minivan consoles with the crew wearing cheap polyester halloween costumes.

note: star trek: the motion picture looked awful. but all the ones after that were awesome. how much cooler would next generation have been if they had those burgundy uniforms? kirk looked like the motherfucker in EVERY MOVIE wearing that shit.

ethan, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, red uniforms = the best. The original series is the best because the universe is just so unfriendly, not to mention the Enterprise interior decor. And the ships looked better, not interstellar Nissan Micras like they are post-TNG.

DG, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I will grant both movie II (and the ear scene in particular, freaked me out as an eleven-year-old -- Nick Meyer, the secret to success) and indeed the kick-ass burgundy uniforms, one of the best design decisions of the entire sequence. However, though there's easily enough ham- handedness in the later series to offset the ones in the original and all, where Ethan and DG see Goodness and Rightness, I see...well, a sixties TV series. For some this is enough, but not me. And I'll take the bald motherfucker, thank you. Kirk got his ass kicked by a bearded guy pretending to be God, Picard took on the Borg several times and won. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Problem with that is, Ned, I like 60s TV series. I like the original because it's good campy fun, whereas I find TNG and after a bit too serious for their own good. And they wear silly uniforms. And Picard is a Frenchman with an English accent, which is silly.

DG, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh, I don't mind The Avengers and the like. But though sf is always not so much a projection of the future as an encapsulation of obsessions of the now, I find the disjunction between what the original series is and what it is supposed to be hard to deal with. Everything since then does indeed take itself more seriously, a reflection of the inevitable result of its popularity (you can just as easily argue that Star Wars suffers from the same problem, if it is one). Yet somehow that appeals to me more. The inevitable end result was actually Babylon 5, where a serious, overarching story was paramount (but which I could never stand myself, because for the most part the acting was so freakin' bad).

Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Then we'll have to politely agree to disagree, then. I've never seen Babylon 5, so I couldn't comment on that.

DG, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

DG: watching babylon 5 is like getting the ear thing, only not as interesting.

ned: you think picard is tougher than picard. what. the. fuck. did you see wrath of khan? did you see that shit? he fucking kicked khan's fucking vinyl-chested ass. 'oh, yeah, you have genesis, khan but you don't have me. if you want me, you're going to have to come down here. you're GOING to HAVE to COME DOWN HERE!!!@#@@!$#'. you can say ANYTHING ELSE about kirk vs. picard, picard is smarter and more civil and professional or whatever the fuck, but nobody in their right fucking mind would say that he's tougher than motherfucking kirk. i am actually literally angry about this, so i need to calm down now. christ, i'm such a trekkie.

ethan, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

you think picard is tougher than picard.

I thought it was Riker who had the twin. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

grr, you know what i meant, i was just blinded by rage .

that riker transporter twin episode is some stupid shit though.

ethan, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

speaking of riker, here's an important point i forgot to make, NUMBER OF HATABLE CHARACTERS PER SERIES:

original series: chekov...maybe, but that's stretching it. he kicks ass in the movies, he's just sort of useless on the show. but the original cast (chekov being a second series addition) is flawless.

next generation: RIKER RIKER RIKER, troi, that doctor who replaced crusher for one year, yar, data (come on, admit it. he's a super-advanced andriod and he can't understand common phrases? he thinks a 'lemon' is a literal lemon for god's sake. i'm sure the writers kissed each other for how fucking cute that was. anyway mudd's women were way smarter). and WESLEY. geordie would get on my nerves if he were played by anyone but le var burton, but he's a childhood icon and can therefore do no wrong.

deep space nine: the only memorable character besides the captain (who is cool) is quark the ferengi (who is also cool). but the rest aren't even fleshed-out enough to annoy me. wait, no, the short-haired chick with the ridges on her nose aggravates the piss out of me. and the doctor, god.

voyager: it has an indian. and an asian guy. and a black vulcan. and the captain is a woman. only as annoying as that new ghostbusters cartoon where one of the ghostbusters was in a wheelchair. like, what the hell?

evidence that kirk is the best captain: all series after that have had kirk ripoffs that are nowhere as good as kirk because they are not as cool as the godly shatner. like riker, or that really forgettable womanizer guy from voyager. i mean, what the hell, don't you just want to punch riker in the face? does anyone not want to? anyone?

ethan, Monday, 23 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

KIrk could kick picard's ass any day. Kirk was like a slutty brawling egotist and picard was an anal retentive bald french yuppie. I bet Spock coul d beat up data too. He would use some weird Vulcan technique. Bones was so much more likeable and tougher than that redhaired shit doctor on next generation. Wesley crusher was such a stupid littel prick. I'll take Chekov over him anyday. And I dug Uhurus sexy legs, She was a hootchie mama in that miniskirt

Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I agree that Wesley should have been killed. Very very very VERY FUCKING SLOWLY.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kirk boffed green alien slave girls with cleavage one could ski down. That alone made him cooler than any subsequent Captain. Other than him, my favorite Star Trek character was Q (what an asshole! what's there not to love about Q?)

All-time favorite episode is "Charlie X," where the Enterprise picks up some teenaged human waif from a planet, who then runs around the ship melting off the faces through telekinesis (?) of various crew members whenever he's teased or horny. What teenager couldn't identify with that?

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Chekov wasn't so bad in the TV series. He was essential because he had the greatest scream, which talent always came in handy when some breed of nasty aliens had some fiendish torture device. Ergo, Chekov = classic.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

q was awesome, yeah, but just because he made fun of picard. the whole concept was ripped off from that original series episode with the godlike alien who turns out to be just a spoiled kid, and that storyline is better than anything that ever had q in it anyway.

ethan, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Does knowing the difference between a trekker and a trekkie and then claiming you're a trekker instantly make you a trekkie?

I remembered TNG being great when I was 12, but I watched a few of them more recently and they were AWFUL, even the later ones. I think I might have quite liked Deep Space Nine later on, when they started having season-long story arcs, but I never saw enough of them to make sense of what was going on.

John Davey, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

everyone likes ricardo montalban, no?

gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

D U D!

How come most of the crew are American yet NONE of them are chronically obese? (except Scotty who's - ahem - ""Scottish"")

In the 60s it was a bizarre mix of US military 'might is right' fascism and Hippy-dippy, 'why can't all nations hold hands?' idealism (though still managing to be sexist ~ Uhura the Captains secretary and Yoaman Rand (is that right) the Captains bit of [onboard] fluff. AND THATS IT SISTERS!)

It should have ended there as it ran out of ideas and people stopped watching it. But OH NO, they had to bring it back in the 80s with over-long, plodding bore-a-thon 'Next Generation' episodes that tapped into the touchy-feely / inner-child / New-Age nonsense that was on the go at the time. I mean - Counsellor Troi = WHY? She even sits on the bridge next to the Captain!! the message is in the 25th Century a bloody social worker is one of the most important jobs on a space ship.

But it was all so clinical and corperate and soul-less, advocating Pro-conformity and how you should be a good citizen. And too much sanctimonious liberal finger-wagging for my liking.

And it starred Whoopi Goldberg.

And how come all the baddies end up as the Federation's (UGH!) freind, taking tokenistic jobs as Navigators etc?

And why was it always so fucking BORING?

D*A*V*I*D*M, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

star trek. sanctimonious. surely not? heh heh heh

gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Voyager totally kicks the ass of *all* previous incarnations. Because Voyager slash fiction features 7of9, who iz meh on- screen, sexwise, but as a conceptual device in print iz rowr

mark s, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

What is the point of Riker? What the hell is his 'schtick'?

dave q, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The point of Riker was to dilute the Wesley Hatred. This plan backfired when Wesley left and Riker grew a smug beard, turning him into one of the worst things ever. I kept hoping that he and Troi would get sucked into a black hole.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I could tolerate Troi's psychobabble only because of her cleavage. And her ass. Other than that, she was useless.

Another Star Trek I had over the other incarnations -- BETTER BACKGROUND MUSIC! Esp. that duh-dum-duh-dum-DUH-DUM-duh-dum theme whenever Kirk's ass was in deep ship.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I second the post about Troi's assets! The 'psychobabble' thing was hilarious - somebody's biting their nails quickly and their eyes are darting around the room, and Troi's insight is, "He is obviously nervous and anxious about something."

dave q, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

orig.Star Trek composer = v.influenced by Varese... hey, like someone else TS has a tatse for, methinks?

mark s, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

My problem is that I never thought Troi was all that attractive. I mean, Dr. Crusher had more going for her on a purely physical level, IMO, and she wasn't saddled with blurting out painfully obvious lines that inadvertantly made the rest of the crew seem retarded for not being able to pick up on obvious visual cues.

On the other hand, Troi's mother was AWESOME.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

dan, you're scaring me now.

gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Troi's Mom more attractive than Troi? Dan, you really are the Evil Clown ;-)

And the original ST's music was Varese-influenced, hey? Hmmmm ... never knew that! Maybe I should go over to that "Who Opened Your Ears" thread in ILM and change an answer or two of mine :-)

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link


Troi's mom was cooler than Troi, not more attractive! Aigh, my eyes!

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Trying to advance the human race through space diplomacy... until they kill all the people [aliens] at the end of the episode/movie. At least Star Wars was honest.

JM, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Why, Dan, why can't you admit that you've got some love of the grey in you? Before Joei came along, I'm sure you were searching for your own Mrs. Robinson for after-school lessons...

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

star wars, honest? it makes no fuckin sense. darth vader tells luke that if he strikes out against him in anger then he will become just like him, and then luke strikes out in anger, and then he wins and everyone's happy? that whole movie is shit anyway because george lucas had an INFINITE fucking pool of ideas to choose from and a huge budget to carry it out, and what does he do? ANOTHER death star and ANOTHER darth/luke lightsaber battle. fuck george lucas, the only good one was empire strikes back and he didn't direct that.

troi: not attractive.

crusher: nuh-uh.

troi's mom: uh.

that guy who was troi's mom's butler or something and was the guy who played lurch in the addams family movies: mrowr.

question: who liked first contact? it was like a next generation episode, only like, cool. plus, supercool supporting cast with alfre woodard and the farmer guy from babe.

someone start a star wars thread so i can bitch about how much that sucks except for empire strikes back.

ethan, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

1) There already is a Star Wars thread, it should be in the 'films' category, though it might be under 'culture', not sure.
2) First Contact was wicked at the cinema, but overall I found it a bit disappointing they had to spend the middle part of the film trying to make it like 'Aliens'.

DG, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like the way the guys in the red shirts who form part of the away team with the main characters always get killed. Original series only for me, Dr McCoy is great! I wish I could be more like Spock.

james e l, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah, this is great, I was expecting to be beaten about the head by fans of TNG...the original series rules!

DG, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm glad they tried to make the middle of it like aliens. aliens was wicked. anything that makes next generation have more explosions and blood is good.

hey i just remembered something else i liked in next generation, although it's from that bastard movie where kirk dies (falling off a walkway! the fuck? he's saved the universe like two hundred times and he falls of a walkway and dies? fuck). um anyway, i liked when data said 'shit'.

ethan, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Counsellor Trios ass and tits were ok, but that nose ruined all. Still I bet Riker would often chuckle with Warf about how if she had a abg over her head he'd do her, and then Warf would probaby say "Yeah, and her fore head isnt bumpy enough". There was an episode when the crew was all morphin ginto prehistoric froms of themselves and Warf came on to Trio by saying "GET OUT OF THAT BATH! " and biting her. Not very romantic, those Vulcans.

Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Riker and Picard are both closeted fags ( in trek and IRL)

anthony, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

THey didn't seem to be too closeted to me. PIcard always strutted about like a flamboyant ass -peacock in heat.

Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...
I kinda like Enterprise, especially that superflous shower scene in the first epidode. And the 80's power ballad theme tune is great.

jel --, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Jel, are you on Klingon Krack? That is the worst theme song ever ever ever!

Andrew L, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Andrew said it all. Jel, you have given way to insanity.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Riker was surely a weak attempt at a Kirk junior. Troi was hilarious. On the viewscreen appears some sweaty guy with his clothes torn and blood running down one shoulder, screaming in the background, phaser blasts zooming past his ears saying "No, no, everything is fine. DON'T BRING ANY WEAPONS WHEN YOU BEAM DOWN!" and she says "Captain - I sense he may not be telling us the whole truth".

Andrew L has not mentioned his great expertness in this area, for some reason. I know about it because I very briefly worked under him on a Star Trek magazine!

Martin Skidmore, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Nope, the theme tune is definetely great. Sort of like all those brilliant power ballads that were number one in the 1980's. Anyway, the new captain is about to probe a planet...

jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Another new euphemism! But you're still insane, Jel.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

he has an inner eyelid!

mark s, Sunday, 5 June 2022 13:59 (two months ago) link

Believe I have tried work an analogy about the extra eyelid ex machina#onethread into conversation more than once.

Double Elvis on the Dime (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 June 2022 15:47 (two months ago) link


Double Elvis on the Dime (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 June 2022 16:07 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

a mysterious alien device on a planet with a predominantly american indian culture erases captain kirk's memory, and he begins a life with them as a member of their tribe

they think he's a god and call him kirrok

he says: "my dreams about the strange lodge that passes through the sky have returned"

mark s, Sunday, 17 July 2022 12:45 (one month ago) link

RIP to a legend

— Star Trek Minus Context (@NoContextTrek) July 25, 2022

mookieproof, Monday, 25 July 2022 14:50 (three weeks ago) link

Flying pancake ep of TOS was the 1st sci-fi I ever saw on TV! I was a bit too young to know wtf was going on, but the image of those things falling from the ceiling stuck with me.

Grandpont Genie, Monday, 25 July 2022 15:32 (three weeks ago) link

rip x 2

mookieproof, Monday, 25 July 2022 19:58 (three weeks ago) link

To me Warner will always be the Bab5 character in "Grail".

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 25 July 2022 23:24 (three weeks ago) link


mookieproof, Monday, 25 July 2022 23:32 (three weeks ago) link

I'm intrigued as to whether there is an agreed shark jumping point for Discovery or if one should just pooh pooh it from the get go. Like

Stevolende, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 10:12 (three weeks ago) link

Ups and downs in the first two seasons; second season is better but won't make much sense without watching the first. Third seasons starts well but then I gave up. Suggest watching the Pike/Spock/Number 1 episodes and pooh-poohing the rest.

The first season is like a season-long "Naked Now" -- everyone acts weirdly out-of-character before you get a chance to know what they're actually like (although what they're actually like isn't much of an improvement). Not sure it was a good idea to launch the first new series in a fifteen years totally in media res.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 12:41 (three weeks ago) link

I think I'll give up on Discovery, I haven't grown to like any of the characters too much, in fact I'm getting increasingly sick of some of them. I don't want to be one of those negative fan people but this and Picard have been hugely disappointing - the latter quite depressingly so. Stewart should have said no, as it turns out.

On a brighter note, Lower Decks is back soon!

Duane Barry, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 15:41 (three weeks ago) link

Strange New Worlds is great if you've not seen that

groovypanda, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 16:42 (three weeks ago) link

I watched the first two episodes and liked them - I think ST still works better as an episodic series, really

Duane Barry, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 17:07 (three weeks ago) link

Agree about Picard and Disco, and I'm indifferent to the cartoons, but Strange New Worlds is a total gem.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 July 2022 20:17 (three weeks ago) link

Discovery jumped the shark immediately but there were occasional signs of life in the first couple of seasons - the doctor (sometimes), Jason Isaacs and Michelle Yeoh are fun to watch and stand out because everyone else sucks all the energy and joy out when they're on screen.

papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 26 July 2022 20:21 (three weeks ago) link

DISCO kind of is two different series, the first two seasons, and the last two. The first two seasons are overly grimdark, with a lot of gore that felt gratuitous and meant simply to shock. As for the last two season, I've been struggling to articulate why I find it to be so bad. I think it's wildly inconsistent main characters, complete indifference to secondary characters, and bad long-term storytelling where characters suddenly have some interest/ability/backstory meant to only serve the immediate story beat (Saru and Michael start out as rivals with a bunch of resentment and then suddenly become BFFs, as just one example), and just really shabby sci fi writing (admittedly that's kind of Trek tradition, but it's not always been so sustained).

PIC just gets into some aimless plots and is too caught up in allegory and then "DO YOU SEE?" of it all.

Sometimes I kind of feel that DISCO and PIC both took all the wrong lessons from DS9.

Judd Apatosaurus (Leee), Tuesday, 26 July 2022 21:46 (three weeks ago) link

I did find the first two seasons of Discovery invigoratingly ambitious with its bug-eyed determination to show it wasn’t your grandpa’s Star Trek anymore. It totally failed to land this ambition and ended up pleasing nobody, but the attempt was a wild ride. Agree the Pike/Spock stuff was good fun.

Season 3 set-up was kind of interesting? But then you could feel the energy fading as the season went on. Season 4 felt like one of those later seasons of Voyager where the franchise only existed because there kind of had to be a Star Trek show and everything felt tired and defeated.

the life of a rebo band is always intense (emsworth), Tuesday, 26 July 2022 22:02 (three weeks ago) link

have never felt the slightest urge to watch Picard! nothing i have seen on here or elsewhere is making me reconsider.

the life of a rebo band is always intense (emsworth), Tuesday, 26 July 2022 22:04 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah I'm more of a DISCO fan than many but it was really up and down.

- Klingon war plot: bad and confusing (and that FONT)
- Michelle Yeoh and Jason Isaacs: good
- mirror universe baddies: awesome
- Stamets and the spore drive plot: started off annoying, got really iteresting esp when Culver "died"
- red star/Spock/Pike section: engaging and interesting story
- Section 31/Control plot: this needed a lot more expanding. Needs a spin off! What the hell was all this about, it seemed important then just went pffft
- initial jump to future: some fun bits with the nasty courier dude and Books story
- the rest: it just... sort of went all over the place. The Burn's cause was stupid, the planet destroying black hole or whatever was stupid, the constant feelings an crying and whispering was stupid. Tarka had potential but ended up annoying. Gah!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:17 (three weeks ago) link

Oh I forgot all about the Ash plot! I liked him.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:18 (three weeks ago) link

klingons themselves were also pretty wtf for a while in Disco too

but yeah i think i was
s1 first half: uhh no?
s1 2nd half: wait, ok YES
s2: Hell Yes!
s3: wait. this? no.
s4: please stop with this.

like they just kept doubling down on everything that annoyed me or so it seemed lmao

i do still like the characters tho?
i just want them to get to do more like, missiony story stuff and less therapy. or how about NO therapy

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:29 (three weeks ago) link

I have completely blanked out on how the planet destroyer super alien edge of the galaxy plotline shook out

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:52 (three weeks ago) link

The future jump would have been a perfect moment for them to switch gears into episodic adventures - what better situation for a lot of non-universe-in-the-balance problems and how the only spore drive ship in existence can help solve them!

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:54 (three weeks ago) link

Tie for worst scene: weepy eulogies for Space Hitler vs. "I feel seen"

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 05:59 (three weeks ago) link

That “I feel seen” was a low point of not just Star Trek but all human cultural activity ever

the life of a rebo band is always intense (emsworth), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 06:42 (three weeks ago) link

That and "you got this".

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 10:44 (three weeks ago) link

Maybe I'm being cantankerous but I thought the Mirror Universe stuff was bad fanservice! (Same goes for PIC even though I think technically what we saw wasn't MU.) They should've just left it as a goofy one-offs like DS9 did, not whole season-long arcs.

Judd Apatosaurus (Leee), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 17:44 (three weeks ago) link

mirror universe was what finally got me onboard iirc

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 20:34 (three weeks ago) link

MU stuff went on too long but it started off pretty funny - dominatrix Tilly lol

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 20:37 (three weeks ago) link

give her the respect she deserves, it's KILLY

mh, Wednesday, 27 July 2022 20:39 (three weeks ago) link

mirror universe was fun at first, and i suppose you have to go there if that's your endgame with lorca

absolutely no need to go back in s03 tho

mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 July 2022 20:58 (three weeks ago) link

IMO MU is worse in DS( (Im watching DS9 at the mo). Kira's MU version is SO hammy.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 23:57 (three weeks ago) link

Worse in DS9 that should have said.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 27 July 2022 23:57 (three weeks ago) link

Love hammy Kira

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 28 July 2022 00:03 (three weeks ago) link

the DS9 mirror episodes are all kind of goofy, at least, unlike 'let's teach space nazi a two-episode lesson in flashback and then have everyone mysteriously mourn her'

also everyone -- kira not at all least -- does a nice job of chewing every bit of scenery in sight

mookieproof, Thursday, 28 July 2022 00:13 (three weeks ago) link

DS9 did a weird job of MU, but the Benny episodes and the actual time traveling to California are great

mh, Thursday, 28 July 2022 00:22 (three weeks ago) link

Those who really like MU Tilly and, oddly, Chase Masterson’s character should try playing Star Trek Online where they’re all over the place

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 28 July 2022 03:00 (three weeks ago) link

RIP Nichelle Nichols

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:13 (two weeks ago) link

RIP wonderful lady <3

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:28 (two weeks ago) link

Damn. RIP. And I was just thinking of rewatching the execrable ST V, featuring Uhura's insane fan dance. And oh crap, David Warner is in that one, as well, isn't he?

Beautiful Bean Footage Fetishist (Old Lunch), Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:34 (two weeks ago) link

The doc about nichele nichols & integration of nasa space program- Woman In Motion - is on paramount plus & well worth a watch

drunk history version if u dont have p+

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:40 (two weeks ago) link

smithsonian posted a photo of her red uniform & i lost it

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:48 (two weeks ago) link

"Damn. RIP. And I was just thinking of rewatching the execrable ST V, featuring Uhura's insane fan dance. And oh crap, David Warner is in that one, as well, isn't he?"

He was also in VI - in which Uhura has to flip through a Klingon-English dictionary in order to answer a Klingon hail, despite the fact that (as Nichols herself pointed out to the director) she was the head of communications on Starfleet's flagship.

The films didn't utilise her very well. Even when communicating with the baddies was the focus it was done by Kirk or Spock, e.g. in The Motion Picture, where Spock works out that V'Ger is using a NASA code at a high frequency.

Ashley Pomeroy, Sunday, 31 July 2022 20:49 (two weeks ago) link

had no idea about this which is kind of amazing

She often recalled how Martin Luther King Jr. was a fan of the show and praised her role. She met him at a civil rights gathering in 1967, at a time when she had decided not to return for the show’s second season.

“When I told him I was going to miss my co-stars and I was leaving the show, he became very serious and said, ‘You cannot do that,’” she told The Tulsa (Okla.) World in a 2008 interview.

“‘You’ve changed the face of television forever, and therefore, you’ve changed the minds of people,’” she said the civil rights leader told her.

call all destroyer, Monday, 1 August 2022 01:41 (two weeks ago) link

She definitely was mis- and under-used a lot both in the show and the movies, but she was able to be memorable when actually given the chance

I’m curious how much Celia Rose Gooding’s role on SNW has been structured to attempt to balance that out

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 1 August 2022 05:26 (two weeks ago) link

Can't find a YT of it, but Nichelle Nichols has a small, but memorable part in Mister Buddwing - a 1966 film where amnesiac James Garner wanders the streets of Manhattan in search of his identity while a hip Kenyon Hopkins soundtrack plays.

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 2 August 2022 09:50 (two weeks ago) link

she also plays the villain in the fun Isaac Hayes film Truck Turner

Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid), Tuesday, 2 August 2022 17:28 (two weeks ago) link

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