I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.
-- Hurting 2, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:18 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
isnt this precisely cuz its easy to paint him as a pussy/pushover, which you guys all seem to be buying into?? i think hes far from either of those things. and i dont mean to draw this into electability issues, just that im more interested in what might be lurking behind the 'optimist' facade
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link
The Bush adminstration has done so much to restore if not empower the executive branch that I doubt President McCain, Clinton, or Obama would be so eager to rescind those powers -- why would you?
I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (fifteen years ago) link
might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994
Can't see that happening. He's got too many friends there already on both sides. Senators apparently luv the dude.
xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.
unless you ask her about bill's position on nafta and she goes into that uncomfortable cackle that's soooo painful to watch.
― kenan, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (fifteen years ago) link
just a little armchair psychoanalysis, let's all be cool
― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package - its a symptom of dumb cynicism - those two really dont have to come together
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link
in fact i bet that obama is closer to the optimist/cynic model
its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package
^^^. The right wing has been all "SEE? SEE? AUDACITY OF HOPE MY ASS!" the last couple of weeks; they've accepted the narrative that Obama is a New Kind of Politician. To me he's "new" only in that he understands the importance of words and is uncommonly quick-witted.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:26 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah i dunno if thats directed at me or not but i agree -- im not saying i dont believe the guy isnt genuinely optimistic, but i def dont believe he's remotely naive, like not even remotely remotely xps to jhoshea
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link
not directed at u in the slightest deez
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:29 (fifteen years ago) link
paranoid/optimist ^^^ lol
More on Obama & civil liberties: he voted to make permanent all but two of the PATRIOT act provisions that had been originally passed with an expiration date - so not exactly a wide-eyed innocent on that front.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:34 (fifteen years ago) link
Early on I thought he came off as naive when he said that having lived abroad was a foreign policy credential. Like not only naive for thinking that (which he might not have, really), but naive for thinking it sounded good.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
i really don't think disappointments with an obama presidency will be with character flaws per se.
something that occasionally makes me uneasy about his campaign rhetoric is that he'll elide the differences between kinds of identity, most problematically ethnic and economic identities. being Latino isn't really like being rich even though there's a fair degree of mystification cast over class as culture in this country. i don't really know where i'm going with this; it fits his overall message well to talk about the poor/rich divide as bridgeable, but that's a divide that economic policy should be targeted at eliminating or at least bringing closer, it's not like the problem is, oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:48 (fifteen years ago) link
which i'm sure he knows and in part he's hemmed in by the landmine that is talking about class in America.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:50 (fifteen years ago) link
oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.
-- horseshoe, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3448/l10342545qc8.jpg
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:54 (fifteen years ago) link
(ahem, not that I've seen it.)
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:55 (fifteen years ago) link
isn't the deal with character flaws you see powerfully ten years after that they're the things you saw as VIRTUES at the time
no one's going to be lookin back at president two-term obama and sayin "yes how did i not see he was naive?" -- what will piss you off abt him will be a quality you were pleased abt back when you voted for him
― mark s, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (fifteen years ago) link
he will beat me in basketball and steal my girlfriend
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe but i was really (maybe willfully?) blind to the bill clinton is untrustworthy thing in the 90s. i can see how it was the flipside of his charm in retrospect, i guess.
xpost
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (fifteen years ago) link
edwards was better at talking about class that obama, as i remember, but i also think its "easier" to talk about class as a white guy than it is as a black guy
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (fifteen years ago) link
and the flip side of that was that edwards was no good at talking about race.
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:58 (fifteen years ago) link
uh, whatever that would mean, i guess
I kind of like to think that Barack Obama's reasonable optimism is engendering a sort of secular spirituality in the country.
― Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (fifteen years ago) link
it pretty funny fighting bill clinton and being all ooooh yah ok now i see why he got under yr skin so bad
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (fifteen years ago) link
i really want obama to give a truth bomb class speech like he did with race. lol campaign fan fiction.
xposts
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (fifteen years ago) link
also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (fifteen years ago) link
at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate
Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (fifteen years ago) link
hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (fifteen years ago) link
i think edwards wanted to be prez xxp
― deej, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I didn't say he didn't want to be prez
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (fifteen years ago) link
No results found for "obama edwards slash fiction".
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (fifteen years ago) link
-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:00 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
yeah, i think that's basically right.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (fifteen years ago) link
-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
okay, in my imaginary fan fic scenario, an in-depth justification of the "bitter" thing would be the pretext for the entire speech! OMG AMAZING, RIGHT? but yeah, whatevs. i love him.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:04 (fifteen years ago) link
He worked his way up the ankles to Jim's knees, and then his thighs. As Edwards's hands continued up Obama's body to his torso, they traveled lightly over Obama's full rear end. Edwards's blood quickened at his first touch of such an interesting area of flesh.
He lathered up Obama's stomach and carefully rubbed the soap over the other man's front. "I am pleased that your chest is once again free of hair," Edwards remarked. Then he ran his foamy hands over Obama's pecs, grazing both nipples at once.
"Mm," Obama grunted in answer. More of his penis went turgid. Edwards continued to clean him as if he hadn't noticed, moving soap all around Obama's back without missing an inch of skin.
Edwards returned to the floor and gathered more soap into his hand. Now he ran his curious, searching fingers against Obama's inner thighs, exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:04 (fifteen years ago) link
this ad kicks the gas tax freebie's ass
http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/30/obama-responds-to-clinton-in-new-north-carolina-indiana-ad/
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link
turgid
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:09 (fifteen years ago) link
-- jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:00 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
my thesis on bill clinton in 96 was that i was happy there was a cool democrat in the white house instead of a creepy old republican and he liked jazz and made jokes and seemed smart and my mom liked him
― and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link
i didnt know the word 'partisan' then but i do remember thinking all the armchair psychology was jealous haterz not serious analysis
haha lil guy otm
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:13 (fifteen years ago) link
thats the thing is, i dunno if it was just stopped clock/twice a day shit or if idiots like jonah goldberg actually managed to see the truth about bill clinton and liberals were blinded by triumphalism
― and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link
ethan gets a pass because he has well-formed opinions about records and a job in a muppet museum. it's when folks like suzy talk about being smarter and ballsier than average that makes people upset
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link
oh man xposted to death again
wtf about my post made ppl think i was making serious policy & character judgments at age 10???? ive been pretty clear on ilx that ive only soured on the clintons in the last 7-8 years
― and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:16 (fifteen years ago) link
lol tom what made today defend-suzy day?
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:17 (fifteen years ago) link
and before you answer read these two sentences:
anyway if I had to pick something that's a virtue of the guy that we're going to regret two terms from now it's that he has too much faith in people which is what this whole thread has been about the end
max: people being really boring about hating suzy and gabbneb. it'll be like one tiresome post that breaks the camel's back with stuff like that on ILX and then I just go off. you know this
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link
it reached the TIPPING POINT
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
ive defended gabbneb a lot, and suzy is surprisingly inclusive with her class-hatreds, but generally suzy/gabbneb zings still make me lmao
― and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
peak zing
― dan m, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link