I'm about to change jobs and would lose a pretty big discount on buying software & realized I have to buy whatever I want today or tomorrow..
So.. Do I need the complete Adobe creative suite, web premium? (dreamweaver, flash, photoshop cs3, illustrator, fireworks, acrobat pro). I don't know flash but want to learn, I don't habitually use Dreamweaver but again, would be good to have it. cost = $460. it'd be $1600 direct from Adobe. I have windows XP pro and no intention of ever getting vista on this thing so, hope that won't cause problems.
I never buy software really, everything on my current pc is open source but there's not any replacement for photoshop. I could just buy photoshop only for about $250 but really, I'd like to have the others.
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 02:42 (eleven years ago) link
1. have you tried paint.net or gimp
2. wth would anyone buy photoshop
― webber, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
2. wth would anyone buy photoshop
b/c using cracks for commercial work is totally fucking retarded?
― electricsound, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:10 (eleven years ago) link
lol not true
― jhøshea, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:13 (eleven years ago) link
i figured given the context this was not the case
― webber, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
$210 for Flash and Illustrator and Acrobat (the other apps are a lot less useful imo) is probably worth it. Can you convince yourself that learning Flash will net you an extra $210 eventually? Are you not going to have access to this software at your new job?
Personally, I'd do it, but that's largely because I just dropped $600 on the academic Design Premium -- I need PS, Illustrator, Flash, and wanted InDesign -- and $460 sounds like a sweet deal if you get to hold the license.
― Jacob, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
Actually, if you just want to learn Flash, buy Photoshop, and then download the demo for flash. With a pirated serial number, you can stretch the demo to 60 days. If after 2 months you want it, you can either pirate it or you can buy it, but you'll have a clear idea of why you're spending money and/or time.
― Jacob, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
people who use pirated software are thieves.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
challenging opinions 2008
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
― jhøshea, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
It's the complete package I'd be buying so I guess I'd get the license, yes? don't know if it's any more complex than that? it's the price for "personal use" so not contingent on whether I stay employed there..
dude, gimp sucks. I have that now. no good. yes, I do expect to have access to most/all of this at the new job but I like to have it here, too, I might do some freelancing or there are projects I'd like to work on that I don't want to sit at the office and deal with.
Oh i should have mentioned I'm a web designer/developer.. still learning quite a lot but I do front end production (XHTML/CSS), web graphics, usability stuff.. would like to have a better toolkit at hand rather than just pecking away at code with a programmers editor. pretty advanced photoshop user but that software can do so much stuff.. been using it for 7 years or so & nowhere near expert I think.
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:51 (eleven years ago) link
I don't suppose you'd bother to set up your own enterprise for freelance work so you could deduct the cost from next year's taxes?
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
my impression being that most individual freelance web devs usually just take a check from the client so the IRS never hears about it anyway
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
I don't want to take the trouble, I get overwhelmed by the number of things I have to do as it is. plus never had near enough deductions to go over the.. what's it called, standard deductible.
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 03:56 (eleven years ago) link
Web Premium is really worth it over Web Standard or whatever it's called.
― libcrypt, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:04 (eleven years ago) link
Illustrator in partic is 100% necessary.
― libcrypt, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
Daria, deductable business expenses are a different sort than the personal deductions you are talking about. If you're freelancing, you have to do a Schedule C to cover your business income, and there's a section to note all the business deductions. Anything that is amortized over time is pretty awful to work out yourself, but one-time expenses are easy and worthwhile.
― Jacob, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:47 (eleven years ago) link
thanks. i hate money and.. well, when i say overwhelmed at too many things to do i mean, for real, i didn't even file last year's taxes yet (and they weren't complicated). can't be good at everything i suppose.
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:50 (eleven years ago) link
well, ok, $480 worth of software is go. don't know why i worry about it that much, i probably spent that much on clothes in the past month and a half. (did I mention I hate money? apparently I hate having any.)
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
Anything that is amortized over time is pretty awful to work out yourself
Don't software licences count as assets that get amortized over time? They certainly do in UK company tax law.
― Forest Pines Mk2, Thursday, 20 March 2008 06:57 (eleven years ago) link
i'd pay £460 for the complete package
― DG, Thursday, 20 March 2008 11:24 (eleven years ago) link
anyone here use Air or Flex yet? i've just started forcing myself to learn some ActionScript 3 but after ignoring Flash for years (despite frequent use of it before that) it's been tougher than it should be (both to understand and enjoy).
― blueski, Thursday, 20 March 2008 11:32 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I'll find out.. wonder if I'll actually have the patience to learn it now, I've only used flash so far for some photo slideshows and even then it was driving me crazy..
― daria-g, Thursday, 20 March 2008 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
And here we go again...
Adobe will reveal CS5 on April 12, with the Cocoa-ized, 64-bit, Snow Leopard-ready version shipping in May.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 25 March 2010 00:09 (nine years ago) link
point: why the hell does there need to be a CS5 already?!?
― I DIED, Thursday, 25 March 2010 05:28 (nine years ago) link
that is pretty nuts. a more advanced tech of seam carving?
― Nhex, Thursday, 25 March 2010 06:35 (nine years ago) link
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 25 March 2010 06:40 (nine years ago) link
Texture synthesis. I think.
Relevant papers: http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/people/efros/research/NPS/efros-iccv99.pdf and http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/texture-synthesis-sig00.
― etaeoe, Thursday, 25 March 2010 13:58 (nine years ago) link
we're only a few releases away from people synthesis: "it looks like you're editing a photograph of a co-ed party in florida. would you like to insert tiger woods into the frame y/n?"
― it is just like an unknown puzzle till the end of the world (dyao), Thursday, 25 March 2010 14:06 (nine years ago) link
Will the "cocoa-ized" version still have eight different horizontal slider types?
― mh, Thursday, 25 March 2010 15:19 (nine years ago) link
'...the client doesn't want the ROAD in it...'
Yeah, a client WOULD want this -- now, instead of actually looking for a scenic w/o a road you can just be LAZY and garbage it out... :[
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 25 March 2010 15:39 (nine years ago) link
You can pretty much bet your life on it.
― Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 25 March 2010 16:17 (nine years ago) link
cs5 seems unnecessary....these things have a slow adoption rate in my experience, these days, I wouldn't expect people to migrate over to 5 for another two years.
I only paid $100 for cs4 bundle with a bunch of programs because I got it from an employee. I suggest trying to find an adobe employee if you want to buy anything.
― akm, Thursday, 25 March 2010 16:53 (nine years ago) link
yeah, once u drop the loot for any given version of CS, the updates are very reasonable. It is only the initial investment that is going to really set you back.
― everybody on ilx u have dandruff (Pillbox), Thursday, 25 March 2010 17:13 (nine years ago) link
Goddamn it - I just installed CS4 TWO HOURS AGO!
― Darin, Thursday, 25 March 2010 18:32 (nine years ago) link
It will be big because it's got flashy new features and most people haven't upgraded to CS4 yet, because of CS4s annoying interface changes, and despite CS4s awesome technical additions.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 25 March 2010 19:46 (nine years ago) link
Road deletion is fucking terrifying.
― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Thursday, 25 March 2010 19:47 (nine years ago) link
CS4s annoying interface changes - such as tabbed windows? so annoyingly CONVENIENT
― everybody on ilx u have dandruff (Pillbox), Thursday, 25 March 2010 22:16 (nine years ago) link
Is there away to turn off the little preview inside the rubber stamp cursor in Photoshop? That's the only annoying thing I've discovered so far.
― Darin, Thursday, 25 March 2010 22:23 (nine years ago) link
fuck tabbed windows! I hate them and have turned them off immediately and hate that if I'm not careful when moving a window it will still snap into a tab.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 25 March 2010 22:49 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, a client WOULD want this -- now, instead of actually looking for a scenic w/o a road you can just be LAZY and garbage it out
Haha, imagining the photog getting that shot -- "I COULD just turn 45 degrees to my right and leave the road out of this shot, OR . . ."
― Obama, Wellstone and Darwinfish, Attorneys (Pancakes Hackman), Friday, 26 March 2010 00:06 (nine years ago) link
anyway, I'd like to see this at the 100% pixel level or at least in a high quality jpg - wondering how obvious this action will be if you're zoomed in as opposed to watching a really low-res youtube of it
― it is just like an unknown puzzle till the end of the world (dyao), Friday, 26 March 2010 00:17 (nine years ago) link
I was talking to a colleague today who runs a graphic design and advertising firm, and Adobe is one of his accounts. He was at Photoshopworld yesterday with his Adobe contacts when they debuted some of these features, and he says they're the real deal.
― Obama, Wellstone and Darwinfish, Attorneys (Pancakes Hackman), Friday, 26 March 2010 00:19 (nine years ago) link
pretty amazing demo. I'm imaging "Content-Aware Phil" as a new Adobe mascot.
― dan selzer, Friday, 26 March 2010 03:53 (nine years ago) link
"why so glum, Solid-Phil? You still serve a purpose."
― dan selzer, Friday, 26 March 2010 03:54 (nine years ago) link
― I DIED, Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:28 AM (3 weeks ago)
― ☀ ☃ (am0n), Thursday, 15 April 2010 19:27 (nine years ago) link
― emotional radiohead whatever (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2010 19:35 (nine years ago) link
ugh, I have an in with a new freelance client, but I'll have to upgrade from CS3 to CS5 to work on their existing files/templates/etc. $800!
But it had to be done eventually.
― pixel farmer, Tuesday, 7 December 2010 16:19 (eight years ago) link
Anyone else here facing a conundrum with this Adobe Creative Cloud nonsense?http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/adobes-creative-suite-is-dead-long-live-the-creative-cloud/
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 6 May 2013 23:48 (six years ago) link
No conundrum. I've been a creative cloud subscriber since the beginner and have no doubt that it's a fantastic deal. I've still got a special subscription from being an early adopter so I pay 32 dollars a month to have every single program Adobe makes in the latest version. That always felt easier than a one time payment of 1200 dollars or whatever. And it's all written off.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 01:47 (six years ago) link
Probably figure they're using Photoshop Elements or whatever?
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 13:40 (six years ago) link
forgot about that one!
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 13:41 (six years ago) link
Would be really nice if they tiered their pricing a bit more though a la master collection vs print etc. Like ET I only need PS, Illustrator and Indesign- would be nice if not everyone had to pay for everything. (NB I do think it's a really good deal as is, but it's very clearly aimed at high end people who can justify the cost)
― sktsh, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 14:31 (six years ago) link
I also got a free Behance "prosite" from it.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 14:49 (six years ago) link
Nice stuff Dan! (I have that Metro Area album!)
― sktsh, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:46 (six years ago) link
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:50 (six years ago) link
all the environ stuff was in collab. w/ morgan from environ fwiw.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:51 (six years ago) link
I'm hoping that this idea will crash and burn and in the meantime I can hang onto CS6 for a few years. Probably not going to happen though I guess. This just seems like such a shitty transparent way to prevent people from skipping versions, because really who needs to update this stuff more than once every few years at this point? It's also odd how the people who only use one or two apps are going to be subsidizing companies that use them all. I wish they would offer lower priced bundles similar to the current web/production/design packages.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:54 (six years ago) link
also they really need to streamline their installation process. maybe forcing everyone onto creative cloud will do that. as of now it seems like you install some apps through the creative cloud, some through the application manager, then there's also the download assistant that you need for some reason. last time I installed something I had to download the application manager but then I had to update download assistant to do that. it was ridiculous. I felt like I had to download and install 3 or 4 different components just to "help" me download the piece of software I actually wanted.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:57 (six years ago) link
I don't agree with the first post. It's SUCH a deal. If you only use photoshop, you're paying 600$ a year. That's not a lot of money for serious software. Beyond just getting people to update, it's a way to get people to actually pay for it.
yr second post, I second.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 15:58 (six years ago) link
I'm pretty sure when I upgraded to production premium cs6 it cost me $600, and I only upgrade every couple of years at the most. and I think the upgrade before that was only 3 or 400. So $600 a year is a pretty big increase for me. And I prefer not to upgrade to the latest version as soon as it's released so I'm going to be paying for stuff that I'm not even using.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:01 (six years ago) link
Yesterday i thought about Paint Shop Pro for the first time in YEARS. Probably 10 years.
This is all kind of funny cos recently Final Cut Pro X has been pushing certain people to may trying out Premiere....and now we have this!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:08 (six years ago) link
Yeah initially I hate this but I don't know how it'll pan out. This isn't my bread and butter but I'm always going have PS, InDesign, and Illustrator around and I use them fairly frequently, but not daily or even weekly. I was happy skipping versions, and actually was still using CS2 not that long ago. But paying monthly feels like wasting money to me, always paying for something I only use every couple of weeks.
Thankfully I'm pretty entrenched in the academic realm for the foreseeable future and can probably swing educational pricing, but still.
― joygoat, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:14 (six years ago) link
I was wrong, I just checked and my cs5 upgrade was $600 too. but still the change from a 2 year release schedule to an annual subscription is doubling my software expenses. not that the extra $300 is a big deal, but I definitely don't see how a price increase is a deal.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:16 (six years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, May 7, 2013 12:08 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is exactly what i was thinking. i think i'm gonna be on fcp 7 and cs5 for life haha
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:20 (six years ago) link
So maybe I'm a schmuck for defending Adobe, but my skill set has tripled since subscribing to the cloud (along with Lynda.com). Eighteen months ago, print jobs made up about 90% of my work. Since then I've published 4 apps, 2 websites and worked on a dozen video & motion design projects. I see this as an investment in my career and it's paid off in terms of job satisfaction and a promotion at work.
That said, this big max event is sort of lame.
― Darin, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 21:39 (six years ago) link
I forgot how great max is. a nice vacation away from the annoying devs at work.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 21:57 (six years ago) link
Yep. Beats being in the office for sure.
― Darin, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 22:09 (six years ago) link
haha yeah, I meant it the other way though.
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 22:13 (six years ago) link
Ha! In my case it is a break from some awful marketing people.
― Darin, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 22:15 (six years ago) link
yeah, I guarantee that's how they feel about me
― wk, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 22:26 (six years ago) link
max on fire
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 22:46 (six years ago) link
so much for 32/mo. I think my special intro rates that I've had for ages has worn off because it just jumped to 50/mo
― dan selzer, Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:04 (six years ago) link
― markers, Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:05 (six years ago) link
Noticed that CC is available now. I reckon this is where I get off the train (at least for now)
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 07:13 (six years ago) link
I think CS5 will probably do me just fine for a few years mire, but it would be good to get Retina support at some point so maybe I'll look into a second hand licence for 6.5 at some point.
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 08:42 (six years ago) link
Installed all the new software last night. Some cool new features in After Effects, Premiere Pro & Muse, but you're not missing much w/InDesign, Illustrator or Photoshop.
― Darin, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 20:47 (six years ago) link
InDesign is darker, lets you make QR codes and better font searching. Will probably keep using 6 so I don't have to worry about IDML files and all that.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 20:50 (six years ago) link
Typekit for desktop seems to work really well
― sktsh, Thursday, 15 August 2013 17:17 (six years ago) link
Wish the creative cloud program would recognise my work network's PAC file though. It constantly asks me for my proxy password, refuses to remember it and won't let you tab between text fields or hit return to type the details in. Sometimes it just refuses to connect at all. Fucking adobe.
― sktsh, Thursday, 15 August 2013 17:19 (six years ago) link
Photoshop/Lightroom/Behance/20 gigs for 10$/mo for registered users:
Lots of photographers and light users complaining I guess. That's a pretty good deal I guess if you just use those programs.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 5 September 2013 00:07 (five years ago) link
Still want the Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign only bundle.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 5 September 2013 02:37 (five years ago) link
Just posted this on the Questions about printing thread:
Speaking of InDesign...I didn't initially notice the slowdown of ID CC w/ OSX Mavericks. Just got more and more frustrated and thought my computers were old (2008 Mac Pro and 2010 Macbook Pro) but recently upgraded both (SSDs in both, 8gig ram in Macbook) and it just got worse and worse until it was really frustrating me, so I started searching online and found TONS of people complaining. I went back to CS6 and it was 1000% better. It's totally buggy and a total mess. I saw people were signing up for a pre-release program so I emailed Adobe via facebook and they let me into the program to get test/beta builds. You KNOW Adobe is aware they've fucked up and have caused issues if they're just letting any random person who emails them into their beta program. This is a major problem for them and they really need to fix it.
They really have no competitors and it's definitely showing. So much bloat. I recently had to deal with this conflict between the old application updater and the CC one where I had to quit the later and rename it so I could open up the former just to get it out of my menu bar. The amount of Adobe crap on my computer is shameful.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 13:32 (five years ago) link
CC updater app has given me nothing but probs on Windows and OSX. Seems like really basic stuff they're not fixing, too - like, when an update's ready on OSX the app's icon changes to let you know, but this whole other different adobe icon (that leads to a different updater) pops up from nowhere too!
― sktsh, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 14:10 (five years ago) link
That's the problem I'm talking about in the second part of my post. The other icon is the old updater program, which gives you a different update count than the CC updater, but when you click on it, just opens the CC updater. I had to do this total hack of quitting CC updater and renaming the file, which confused the original updater, but the original updater finally opened so I was able to click on it's preference to remove it's notifier from the menu bar, then reopen CC updater. So you don't see the orig anymore, but I'm sure it's there in the background somewhere, messing things up.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 14:49 (five years ago) link
Oh I misunderstood. The whole thing's just a massive balls-up. Still waiting for them to fix the problem where it arbitrarily changes space in fullscreen mode, too.
― sktsh, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 14:56 (five years ago) link
Really eyeing that student-rate $450 CS6 PS/ID/Illustrator bundle. The whole cloud thing seems like the biggest most obvious scam ever, and that right there is all I need! (Plus Lightroom, and I'm still doing fine with the $70 3.6 I bought a couple years ago.) Should I plunk down and grab this? Is there a good chance they'll outright delete these soon?
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 15:02 (five years ago) link
Normally I'd say I'm a fan of the cloud. See above. I still say that despite my issues. That bundle looks good. Until it's out of date. Then you're screwed and will have to go CC anyway. So why not start just paying the 30/mo (for the first year) now and get the recent stuff?
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 15:23 (five years ago) link
How screwed are you when things go out of date though? For the time being, all I need ID for is access to projects I worked on from 07 to 12, and a collaborative joint with a guy who'll also be using CS6 or lower. Are there any game-changing new features in the CC versions?
Also, wouldn't the programs stop working if I stopped paying the monthly fee? So after x months, it'd definitely be more expensive.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 17:15 (five years ago) link
No, CS6 is pretty good. CC probably adds some great features I'm not thinking of right now, but it also made things uglier and is mostly pretty annoying. But sometimes, esp with Photoshop, new features quickly become essential/killer features. And w/ InDesign having to juggle versions, saving files as XML or IDML etc can be such a hassle.
Just depends on your priorities. I never felt like I had the almost 1k it would've cost me to get CS, and new I'd always want to be up to date.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 17:36 (five years ago) link
― sktsh, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 09:59 (five years ago) link
Outage of Adobe Creative Cloud, more than a day old, locked out app users
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 17 May 2014 22:18 (five years ago) link
I was wondering about that
― Quinoa Phoenix (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 May 2014 00:09 (five years ago) link
can't believe these fucks *still* haven't bothered to fix the spaces issue on osx
― sktsh, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:39 (five years ago) link
lol CC update erasing data on osx. these fucking people
― sktsh, Friday, 12 February 2016 19:55 (three years ago) link
wow. just talked to our IT guy about this. he's going to put an automated somethingerother on everyone's machine that will automatically add an empty folder with a name like " .AAAAA" to make sure that gets deleted and not a folder that might be important.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 12 February 2016 20:25 (three years ago) link
i haven't used them but just learned about Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer. Really going for the gold as far as Adobe replacements. 50 bucks each.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 3 May 2016 05:02 (three years ago) link
Thank you, dan selzer, for the tip.
They ain't Adobe, but they're getting there. I tried the Photo first. It was all right, definitely as advertised as somewhere between PicMe and Photoshop. Would very likely buy it if I didn't already have Elements at home and Photoshop at work.
The Designer app though... it is sweet. I've been using Adobe products for years, and trying to use Illustrator in earnest for the past couple. I just couldn't ever get my head around how Illustrator wants to behave. You can't preview anything. You have to jump through hoops to get something as simple as numbers to show automatically on a bar chart. It's an amazing tool when used correctly, but nothing intuitive about it.
So maybe with that blank slate and open mind, Affinity Design has worked pretty well for me. I'll likely get it for the $50, a very fair price, especially without all that cloud crap. There's a lot of stuff that's going to take getting used to, but unlike Illustrator where you were feeling along a marble wall in the darkness, Designer offers you a velvet rope to hang on to.
Here's a few things I messed around with, just playing with the tools. The 10-year-old original on the left, the Affinity Design panel on the right.
(Feel free to comment on the strip itself in What's the worst online comic strip? )
― pplains, Thursday, 26 May 2016 03:31 (three years ago) link
AEM is pretty sick
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 26 May 2016 10:40 (three years ago) link
Converted the last of my InDesign documents last week. For the first time in 30 years, I no longer have Adobe software on my computer (well, maybe some fonts are left).
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:21 (five days ago) link