2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

Obama vs Clinton... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

McCain vs lolHuckabee... lol

HI DERE, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Symmetry required gabbneb to start this.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link

YAY! I was second again!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link

Well done, sir.

jaymc, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link

freakin' me out with yr. symmetry.

Simon H., Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.naderexplore08.org/

Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link

"fearful" symmetry, huh?

Aimless, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link

1,000 new answers by midnight

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:27 (thirteen years ago) link

ok, healthcare:

hillary needs to require the mandate because, besides being a good populist-sounding talking point, it would give her greater bangaining strength with insurance companies and health care providers. it seems probable to me that these negotiations would be piloted by lobbies who would guarantee their clients' co-operation in exchange for de-regulation or tax-breaks for the insurance and / or health care industries.

am i on the right track so far? y/n? i just want to drill down on this issue because everyone takes for granted that universal health care would be a nearly prohibitive measure to actually enact.

-- elmo argonaut

Posting this over from the other thread, 'cuz it seems like a good point. Is it true? Does a universal health care plan really require 100% buy-in to generate the $$$ necessary to leverage a manageable price?

contenderizer, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link

I can not take part in this historic thread.

Eric H., Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link

this in re: to g00blar

It's fucking hard, and strange, and random, to run a presidential campaign--even with Bill's experience with nat'l campaigns, anyone that thought she would 'know how to do it' and therefore have it easy is pretty much an idiot.

never said it'd be easy, but the clinton campaign thus far made some pretty foolhardy assumptions regarding (1) their underestimation of obama's legitimacy as a threat to her nomination, (2) their inability to plan beyond super tuesday and subsequent frontloading of their expenditures (leading to the financial troubles in jan 08), (3) their lack of control over bill's role in the campaign, who's been an on-again, off-again advocate. they took a lot of shit for granted and it's been catching up with them up to this point.

Does anyone believe that having whatever skills it takes to win your party's nomination have much relation to the skills it takes to be a president?

building coalitions, selling yourself and your ideas, managing/leading a staff. this is debatable, obv, but i think there is some overlap between the two.

m bison, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link

http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/noraodonnell.jpg

Obligatory Norah O'Donnell content.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link

okay, mark halperin has posted this image and "DEVELOPING":

http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/bsmk.jpg

which is confusing the hell out of me.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/12/white-lights-lead-to-red-lights-which-indicate-the-exits/

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link

I will be sad watching the old thread slip down the New Answers page, like I was when Leonardo DiCaprio slipped down under the cold waves at the end of Titanic.

Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link

Health care (deep breath):

While it's true that eliminating free riders should lower insurance premiums (since those free riders, presumably people with few health care costs, could absorb the high costs of others), it seems to me like that's premised on having a single-payer system where there's one big pool of risk, not a whole bunch of separate pools (e.g. separate insurance companies) that just happen to include everyone. Plus, as Obama points out with some cause I think, just because there's a mandate doesn't mean everyone will actually sign up, as the Massachusetts plan has shown, in which case you still have free riders, they just owe the government money.

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link

What has to be kept in mind in all of this is that what we actually need is a single-payer system, but we're never going to actually get that, so any "universal" health care plan is necessarily a compromise. It's just a matter of what you're deciding to compromise on.

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link

thread should have been called THE REAPENING

kenan, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link

Those are people who interpret exit polls on teevee. He means that we are now awaiting... Wait for it... exit polls.

gabbneb, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link

to christen the new thread

G00blar, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link

i hereby christen this ship, the u.s.s. clownpants

m bison, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

wau

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

HRC on teh gays.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Huckabee: Able to see his dick since 2007!

kenan, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link

In terms of costs, this is the image you want to keep in mind:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/85xx/doc8565/Figure1-3.gif

That shows what's going to happen to Medicare/Medicaid costs as time goes on. If they continue growing at the same rate they have been (i.e. 2.5%), then they're going to take up 20% of GDP by 2050. ZOINKS.

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Context here:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/85xx/doc8565/Chapter1.5.1.shtml

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link

i kinda feel slighted that the most prominent queer pundit out there right now is andrew sullivan.

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link

Since 2008, Proud to be an official Dicklist member!

Mackro Mackro, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link

huckabee needs his own cable news show so we can watch him slowly fatten up again

jhøshea, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link

M Bison, I agree with you abt Clinton's 'foolhardy assumptions'. I just don't think those mistakes have much to do with her 'managerial acuity' or whatever. Basically all the mistakes tell us is that she's not totally crushing Obama. Doesn't 'planning past Super Tuesday' just mean 'winning past Super Tuesday'? I don't know, I'm rambling, but I think most of the narratives about Hillary dropping the ball are much more something constructed by the press than anything really insightful. That said, I hope she's done.

G00blar, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link

i kinda feel slighted that the most prominent queer pundit out there right now is andrew sullivan.

Don't forget Morbs.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link

ban g00blar

G00blar, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link

In terms of negotiations, giving insurance companies tax breaks or deregulation would kidna defeat the purpose, unless I'm misunderstanding your point. They're going to be more regulated, if anything. The idea is to basically bring them in and say "everyone in the goddamn country agrees that you're screwing us over, so this is what's going to happen." The obstacle is more going to be hospitals and medical professionals, I suspect, who are all against it because it'll lower their salaries.

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link

i mean, can i get a source on queer interests in politics without being subjected to this hack's 7,285 virulent anti-hillary posts?

xpost

haha, i didn't forget morbs but sadly he is not nearly as prominent a political commentator as he should be.

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link

I just saw that Obama commercial linked on the other thread. It is massively dope.

HI DERE, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link

i just heard james carvelle say "senator obama" but it sounded like "santo bama"

jhøshea, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link

General posts to the obamahiphop forum
Are The Clintons Haters? Jan 14th @ 1:49 AM

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link

James Carvelle could make "activist judges" sound like "santo bama".

HI DERE, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link

hillary is def a hater

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link

i just heard james carvelle say "senator obama" but it sounded like "santo bama"

LOL

gabbneb, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link

lol >>> http://tinyurl.com/3ch8wj

jhøshea, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link

thanking u

gff, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link

"His name rhymes with the word Iraq. His second name also does not need to comment, but Obama surname only one consonant differs from the embodiment of evil names (meaning Osama bin Laden. - "Newspaper. Ru") "- notes columnist The Daily Reveille.

jhøshea, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link

Depraved, however, to wound that Obama - Half (his father - black, the mother - white). Therefore, there is no guarantee observers say that black voters will support him, not Hillary Clinton, wife of the ex-president, whose American "blacks" just adore.

Eppy, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Obamy

Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Can't wait until the weather is Obamy outside my office.

Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link

what about Aravosis? (AmericaBlog)

daria-g, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link

In terms of negotiations, giving insurance companies tax breaks or deregulation would kidna defeat the purpose, unless I'm misunderstanding your point. They're going to be more regulated, if anything. The idea is to basically bring them in and say "everyone in the goddamn country agrees that you're screwing us over, so this is what's going to happen."

I don't think that's the idea at all. That kind of draconian, oppositional, top-down imposition of a system would never fly in the free-market U.S., and I can't imagine either candidate trying it. Instead, I imagine that insurance co's and the gov't will work together to come up with agreeable rates and situational (symptom-based) response/cost plans. The companies involved will want certain guarantees and concessions, though expanded enrollment will be sizeable perk right off the bat. The more people the gov't can promise, the better their leverage - especially if the new heads aren't high-riskers who couldn't get insurance any other way.

contenderizer, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080212/pl_afp/usvoteobamajapan

Murakami noted that Barack Obama's birthday, August 4, happens to be "Chopsticks Day" in the city.

kingfish, Tuesday, 12 February 2008 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link

boston's very segregated y'say?

balls, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:27 (twelve years ago) link

comments on huffington blog are mostly encouraging, though.

-- stevie, Thursday, March 20, 2008 11:13 PM

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:38 (twelve years ago) link

but yeah fwiw it's incredible (and maybe a measure of the success of the penn speech) to see liberals talking about race and admitting long-hushed maybe barely-conscious discomfort & fear

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:42 (twelve years ago) link

http://i27.tinypic.com/16m4ac.jpg

jhøshea, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:45 (twelve years ago) link

Drudge are also flagging up a story about Bill Clinton and his good pal Rev. Wright!

Has someone called the karma police on behalf of Obama?

suzy, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:57 (twelve years ago) link

WaPo has the passport story ... it was supposed to break tomorrow morning, but I guess we'll see it soon.

Mr. Goodman, Thursday, 20 March 2008 23:59 (twelve years ago) link

Or, maybe not, from Drudge:

MORE... WASHINGTON TIMES SET TO SPLASH THE DEVELOPMENT, NEWSROOM SOURCES TELL DRUDGE REPORT... MORE..

Mr. Goodman, Friday, 21 March 2008 00:02 (twelve years ago) link

i just turned on Larry King and Obama is on via satellite but i think theyve already moved on to other topics

gr8080, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:19 (twelve years ago) link

[Ohio:] For Obama, it’s a 17-point swing against him since the last SurveyUSA poll taken just three weeks ago, going up from up ten on McCain to down seven. Clinton has slipped four points over the same period but still leads McCain by six.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:26 (twelve years ago) link

If the polling continues to slide for Obama in Ohio and Missouri, and if McCain continues to do well in Michigan and Pennsylvania, the Democrats simply cannot afford to nominate Obama. That, in fact, is the express mission of the superdelegates — to avoid a general-election disaster like George McGovern, and not to simply rubber-stamp the popular vote or the pledged-delegate leader.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:28 (twelve years ago) link

^^^ hotair.com

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:28 (twelve years ago) link

I am an Obama supporter, but am now taking another look at Hillary Clinton. I am turned off by the way Obama has handled the Wright situation so far. I felt offended by the way he seemed to stereotype whites as racist in his comment about how his grandmother is a "typical white". I felt inspired by his words and campaign of hope, but his essential acceptance of Wrights words in church casts doubt onto his judgment. I am now concerned if my judgment that Obama was the stronger candidate against McCain was correct. I hope the media continues to pursue this story, because I for one still have concerns about the inconsistencies in Obama's story and the impact of this controversy on his electability in the general election.

Posted By: thornton | March 20, 2008 at 07:47 PM

max, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:38 (twelve years ago) link

the next set of polls will be more favorable to Obama. getting 2M people to watch a 40 minute vid on youtube is a good start. of course a better way to convince whitey he's not the devil is to keep calling talk radio stations and discussing how his brackets are going.

Cosmo Vitelli, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:43 (twelve years ago) link

discussing

Cosmo Vitelli, Friday, 21 March 2008 01:45 (twelve years ago) link

All of those polls are meaningless. I said so when Senator Clinton was up, I said so when Senator Obama was up and now I’m saying it now that Senator McCain is up. Direction surveys do not begin to harden till mid-August at the earliest.

Mr. Goodman, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:15 (twelve years ago) link

actually theyre only meaningful when obama is up

jhøshea, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:18 (twelve years ago) link

dumb question, but what sorts of things did wright say that were so amazingly offensive? the stuff i heard on the radio was, frankly, a bit paranoid around the edges (the feds selling crack to the inner city, etc.) but not particular offensive.

amateurist, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:24 (twelve years ago) link

particularLY

amateurist, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:24 (twelve years ago) link

"god damn america"

jhøshea, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:25 (twelve years ago) link

so were people actually OFFENDED at that or just "offended"?

amateurist, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:25 (twelve years ago) link

eh who knows?

jhøshea, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:27 (twelve years ago) link

I think typical white people enjoy being offended about things.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:27 (twelve years ago) link

is it just me or is the clinton campaign's behavior in this campaign growing more disingenuous, dishonest, and craven by the day? and it seems to be working. i'm really depressed.

(sorry for not being too sophisticated about this, but i'm so busy with work that i can only stick me head out and read a bit of news on occasion.)

amateurist, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:30 (twelve years ago) link

i say this as someone who was by no means a clinton-hater in the past.

amateurist, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:30 (twelve years ago) link

thats pretty much the consensus of this thread

jhøshea, Friday, 21 March 2008 02:31 (twelve years ago) link

I think for every person genuinely offended by "God Damn America" there are five more people who are just sort of startled by it and not really offended but are worried that if they don't act offended their co-workers will think they're not patriotic enough.

Hurting 2, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:03 (twelve years ago) link

the scary thing about the wright flap is that in the wake of 9-11, bizarro nationalism created a climate of fear and self-censorship lest anyone be branded unpatriotic. six years of royal executive fuck-ups later it's acceptable (if not encouraged) in most quarters to mock the head of state, ruling class etc. but god forbid you implicate the country itself (in practical terms the voters who elected these buffoons but in bizarro nationalistic terms George Washington, Gen. Patton, Elvis, det. john mcclane etc.) the fear mongers immediately return to center stage with their brand and everyone cowers, even piling on the guilty party so their own patriotism won't be questioned.

I thought after Iraq and a laundry list of other blemishes we could handle an open/honest discussion about America's place in the world and God's heart, but apparently the architects of this rah-rah culture worked some impressive voodoo shit on us back then that will continue to rear its ugly head from time to time.

Cosmo Vitelli, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:13 (twelve years ago) link

or what hurting said.

Cosmo Vitelli, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:15 (twelve years ago) link

i generally believe the feds did sell crack to the inner city kids

remy bean, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:17 (twelve years ago) link

the scary thing about the wright flap is that in the wake of 9-11, bizarro nationalism created a climate of fear and self-censorship lest anyone be branded unpatriotic.

I think America was pretty much always like this.

31g, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:19 (twelve years ago) link

yep xp

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:21 (twelve years ago) link

oh yeah like most countries, but it became particularly toxic and powerful afterwards.

Cosmo Vitelli, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:24 (twelve years ago) link

i generally believe the feds did sell crack to the inner city kids

I thought this was related one of the things that John Kerry dug up around '85 or so, with the Iran-Contra funding and drug-running to the U.S. etc.

kingfish, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:26 (twelve years ago) link

huckabee amazingly honest, clear-headed and forgiving: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/huckabee-defend.html

jermainetwo, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:27 (twelve years ago) link

maybe he can replace McCain as the batshit conservative it's ok for liberals to like.

31g, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:31 (twelve years ago) link

That's fine with me if he brings some inclusiveness and optimism and forgiveness and tolerance to the table.

Eazy, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:41 (twelve years ago) link

He also wants to bring guns and creationism, so I'm not totally onboard.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:53 (twelve years ago) link

we have posted the huckabee thing like five times already

akm, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:55 (twelve years ago) link

i generally believe the feds did sell crack to the inner city kids

what GS level was that job?

gershy, Friday, 21 March 2008 04:57 (twelve years ago) link

(sorry about the repost, missed some hidden messages)

jermainetwo, Friday, 21 March 2008 05:19 (twelve years ago) link

like I've said before, the news cycle on this thread is about an hour

Hurting 2, Friday, 21 March 2008 05:19 (twelve years ago) link

I think typical white people enjoy being offended about things.

you can take my capacity for hypocritical phony outrage when you pry it from my cold dead frontal cortex.

tipsy mothra, Friday, 21 March 2008 05:29 (twelve years ago) link

stuff white people like

31g, Friday, 21 March 2008 05:32 (twelve years ago) link

i didn't get a ticket for tomorrow's rally, but i did get to see the obama caravan roll into downtown tonight. 5-0 was everywhere, about 3 dozen motorbike cops. I was on my bike and stopped as they roared by me. I was the only guy on the street at the time, and I waved. I think I saw him on his phone.

in other news, we've hit 8K messages on this thread, time for a new one?

kingfish, Friday, 21 March 2008 06:37 (twelve years ago) link

Yes, a new one.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 21 March 2008 06:40 (twelve years ago) link

yep

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 06:44 (twelve years ago) link

2008 Primaries Thread 3: Oh God It's Still Happening

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 March 2008 06:45 (twelve years ago) link

Symmetry required gabbneb to end this.

The Brainwasher, Friday, 21 March 2008 07:01 (twelve years ago) link

symmetry got raped and thrown off a hotel balcony.

TOMBOT, Friday, 21 March 2008 07:02 (twelve years ago) link


This thread has been locked by an administrator

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.