Wilhem De Kooning

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
pretty

anthony, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

anthony what is your take on his work AFTER alzheimers kicked in?

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i really dont know , i think some of the late 80s stuff is interesting , vestiges of the skill and talent but looser, less angry. But most of its shit .

anthony, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

'Twas opined in Sunday's Observer that Warhol still looks fresh, whereas AbEx now feels like something fusty and historical. I have to agree, because 1962 (the year Warhol broke) is quite possibly the Year Zero of POMOPOMOPOMO, and we are still living in POMOPOMOPOMO. Whereas AbEx harks back to Existentialism, World War 2, Sartre, 'commitment', the Spanish Civil War, and all sorts of other things which are worlds away from our lives.

Of course, I like De Kooning. A lot better than Pollock the Pillock. But really no closer to me than Poussin or David. Art history.

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

jesus i thought we'd exploded these drearily academic binaries like past/present

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I had some POUSSIN from Tesco which was stuffed with CITRUS... STUFF! Hooray it's never occured to me how literally GRAND the word 'stuffing' is! It references itself on two levels, STUFF and STUFFING which is AARRGHH! I am wrapping myself up in linguistguest spaghetti! Yay I have been eating ART!

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Incidentally Warhol looks as 'fresh' these days as the wilting spring oniongs I threw out the other day - then again as I never went through the Warhol stage I am only saying this because I dislike Campbells Soup, Coca-Cola (well not so much these days as it goes so well with RHUM) and Maryling Monroe.

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i thought we'd exploded these drearily academic binaries like past/present

...or Mark/Sarah...

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

so is that pomo irony mo, or another kind?

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ah if you can get something fun from a discussion of art then by all means NOMINATE THE DISCUSSION FOR THE TURNER PRIZE hooray! Thinking of poussin has cheered me up! All I know about Warhol is the repeated printZoR ALSO the CATS - I prefer KIT KATS mmmmmm. Actually, many repeated kit kats = my fave art evah.

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(Am I drearily academic? Or just dreary?)

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yr a pom-pomo ack-ackademic sarah

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Hey Mark, do you want to come and see the Pokemon Musical? Me and Beng are going to go also possibly Alang and Jel!

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

YES!! MORE THAN ANYTHING!! Well, more than some things. But when?

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

But you two can't be seen in a real room together. You can only be two people in the very POMOPOMOPOMO space of 'the virtual'. Whether you use that space to make arguments against POMOPOMOPOMO is irrelevant. You embody it.

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yes we do, because it DOES NOT EXIST!!

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Its in May at the Hammersmith Apollo, however I cannot find where to buy tickets!! (ie I looked on Ticketweb for abt 5 mins this morning and nothing there grrrr)

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

erm i'm in wales for a bit of may (see how i reinforce conventional notions of time and space, thus calling into question the hierarchies of current art production WHERE IS MY TURNER PRIZE MOMUS HAF STOLEN IT!!)

taking diers: current art vs raisin d'etre

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(see how i subverted the notion of spelling "sides" correctly there — more turner prizes for me!!)

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

do you figure de kooning's big scary ladies paintings as misogynist? they seem more terrified of women than full of hate for them. is misogyny hate or fear or both? so confusing.

rauschenberg's "erased dekooning" always seemed kind of punk, for lack of a better word.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually, Mark, the closest you came to winning the Turner Prize was when you had Sarah say: 'Actually, many repeated kit kats = my fave art evah.' Not only do you have a 'persona' like Gilbert and George or Tracey Emin, you mix conceptualism with populism like Martin Creed.

'Repeated Kitkats' wins the 2002 Turner. It's yours, take it -- both of you!

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

don't want it now *sulks*

fritz can have it for his fred hijack

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Dates from anano va: London's Hammersmith Apollo: 9-11... CAN YOU MAKE IT? Obv the best place to see this would be the Glasgow Armadillo heh heh.

Sarah, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Thanks, Mark. Wow. (deep breath) I really wasn't expecting to win this year - especially given the competition. It's an honour just to be nominated alongside "Kitkats Repeated" and "Pomomus". I'd like to thank Jesus Christ and all the little people, too small and insignificant to mention by name...I'M GOING TO DISNEYLAND!

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yes i think it's the 14th i go to wales sarah: have to check when i get home which is NEARLY NOW YAY! We didn't abolish tuesday afternoon but we rendered it non-toxic!! Oh we are the Freaky Trigans, as happy as can be... *dances*

mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's a candy-colored world I've stepped into. It's Pierre et Gilles interpreted by top flight anime studios.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I just want to say one more thing: believe in yourself. That's why I'm holding this Turner Prize in my hand right now and you're not. I I believed in my dream and you believed in my dream and Jesus believed in my dream and that's what's most important. I just want to say what's up to God, good lookin' out, you're my Dogg 4-ever. Thank you, I love you all. Especially you, my fans. This one's for all of you! WE DID IT!

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

You forgot to thank the most important people of all: Rowntree's chocolate factory.

And watch out for Stuckist eggs on the way out. Perhaps this year they'll be chocolate eggs!

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

     History of the Kit Kat:

                Kit Kat is by far-and-away the UK's leading confectionery brand.
                In 1935 Rowntree's Chocolate Crisp was launched.
                In 1937 Rowntree's Chocolate Crisp was renamed the Kit-Kat Club after Christopher Catling, who hosted a Whig political club in the early years of the C18th.
                In 1947 the Kit-Kat Club was renamed the KitKat.
                In the 1960s the present Kit Kat wrapper was designed by Edmond Vaughan (1906-1996), who worked in the art department of the J.Walter Thompson advertising agency.
                In June 2001 the traditional four-finger KitKats only accounted for 24% of sales.
                In June 2001 Rowntree Mackintosh announced that in July 2001 it was going to change Kit Kat’s packaging from foil to a plastic wrapper.
In 2002, artist Fritz Wollner won the prestigious Turner Prize with a conceptual work entitled 'Repeated Kitkats', katapulting the krazy snack to POMOPOMOPOMO icon status.

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Vote Billy Childish for Easter Bunny.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

But Sarah came up with "Repeated Kit Kats". sinker just handed me the Turner in a huff. I'm not giving it up without a fight.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

In 2002 the prestigious Booker Prize goes to Momus for his short but crunchy account, 'History of the Kitkat'. The prize is rescinded when it is discovered he plagiarized his text almost entirely from a website called Brown Eyed Sheep.

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Looking back, I think I won for my "Fred Hijack" - an edgy performance piece.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

see: don't want it now *sulks*
fritz can have it for his fred hijack

-- mark s (mark@evazev.demon.co.uk), March 05, 2002.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm not really very impressed by De Kooning's work. It just strikes me as run of the mill abstract work. And, I personally don't feel that there is enough vibrancy in his choice of colours.

jel --, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

STOP PRESS: 2002 Turner Prize rescinded over plagiarism row... Artist Wollner now saying he won it for a different piece... Rowntrees Chocolate Company withdraws sponsorship from prize... Music journalist Mark Sinker claims 'Repeated Kit Kats' was his idea... Sinker's Cyber-alter-ego Starry Sarah disputes Sinker's claim... Billy Childish declares the whole thing 'totally childish'...

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Whatever happens, "Fred Hijack" remains a work I'm very very proud of. Mostly because I know it really touched a lot of crappy ordinary people out there. I thank them for their cheap and tawdry cards and letters of support during these trying times. They can take away my Turner, but they will never never take away my faith. I got your back baby Jesus, know what I'm saying?

- The F to the Ritzo

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Where's (mother/fucker) Madonna?

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I can't believe Creed won. They like totally suck.

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Creed is God.

His band Owada are great.

He lives with his Italian girlfriend on the island of Alicudi, south of Sicily, where no cars are allowed, only donkeys.

The title track on the new Milky album 'Travels With A Donkey' is about him.

Disgust at Creed's Turner is no more or less significant than booing at 'The Rite of Spring'. There's always resistance to art which is both new and speaking about now. It jars because most people have only just caught up with the art of yesterday (your grandparents are just discovering The Impressionists, your parents have just 'got' Abstract Expressionism, and your peers are queuing for the Warhol show).

One day old codgers (like me!) will say about new art 'Well, it's not like the good old days, is it? Now Martin Creed, that's real art!'

Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

In my day, we'd just bang our heads on our desks when we wanted to see flashing lights. And nobody gave us a Turner for it neither. We'd visit the chocolate factory if we wanted to see Kitkats Repeated. Kids these days with their Turner prizes and store-bought trousers and high-faluting grade six educations, what do they know about Art?

fritz, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Missed out key political KitKat milestone - when Rowntree Macintosh was bought out by Nestle - turning the jolly KitKat into literally the four fingers of death.

Pete, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Hold on Mr. Momus: it's equally possible that Creed / current styles in contemporary art will be seen as irrelevances by future generations (or this generation later). Your assumption that what is lauded-but-not-necessarily-popular now will necessarily be mainstream- accepted later is ROCKIST and bonkers. I mean, it *might*, of course.

Also, recourse to imagined posterity is v.v. poor art criticism, no?

Did anyone boo at the Rites of Spring, incidentally? Who?

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sorry, that was me. A few too many pints of mead and it's all Rites of QUIM more like.

when did people stop drinking mead ANYWAY..., Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

When they discovered Metheglin!!!!!

mmm bouze, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

There was a riot at the very first Rite, but at the venue where there was ALWAYS a riot (Marinetti and Tzara got into a fight there more than a decade later). There were no riots at any of the subsequents performances, it was instantly popular and acclaimed. Stravinsky himself said that it was Nijinsky's lewd and provocative dancing that sparked the trouble. Momus's various args on this and the "postmodernism" and the Krazy Kat thread pretty much make my point: that the word is just too ill-defined, generalised and unclear to be a useful description of an art movement (or anything else, except possibly the original architectural use, where I'd be at sea pronouncing). What he means abt Warhol eg is not that Warhol is "pomo" but that he's "premomo": viz Momus: "I like Warhol because he was an early version of me, except he didn't make records." (Of course he did make records, but this is the kind of casual indifference to history we expect and in enjoy in a Momus post.) I totally heart Warhol, but I also think there's a lot more to him than premomo:

By the time someone is through explaining what THEIR SPECIFIC defn of pomo entails, and why it is different from everyone else's and why everyone else is wrong (in Momus's, if this thread is a guide, it apparently allows a surprising number of standard- issue modernist-lite assumptions about datedness and the march of history and arts- craft-design divide and of course the wartiest indie potato of all, the intrinsic value of razzing the squares) the shortcut to shared understanding which is the ONLY EXCUSE for such labels has long been lost.

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

So Mark, does it follow that an art movement needs a manifesto / leader of sorts to make the shared understanding possible via a clear ruling in / ruling out process? Is there any movement or genre which has an acceptable name which doesn't have a person / set of people who are seen to rule on (or over) the definition?

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i think retroactive defns work ok, just by historical academic inertia: eg the impressionists = a reasonably settled list of people, ust look in an ancycycloaeida of art, and thus impressionism is what those ppl did (poss v.divergent from what THEY thought they were doing, but this divergence is a handlable and even a fruitful problem). I'm actually fairly dubious abt the coherence of "modernism" as an idea: by some lights that of course makes ME a postmodernist

Part of the answer tho = who do we THESE DAYS agree on as fit to define? It's true that I am very uninterested in terms which arrive with Great Accord attached to them (What Is Soul?)

heh what you should have asked is SO DOES ANTI-ROCKISM EXIST? Of course there is a strong Debordian response to hand: "We're not here to answer cuntish questions" He even said it in the ICA! (though not when it was yet at its current address... )

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

ancycycloaeida: note pedantic house-style spelling at cr*fts mag

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The convo which says:
"This is [X]ism and that is not [X]ism"
"No they are both [X]ism because [blah blah]", etc
is a perfectly good way of dealing with art, if only because it is likely to lead to fuming artist claiming no affiliation to [X], always funny.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

And, someone can be bothered to define it = it is fit for definition

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Whereas AbEx harks back to Existentialism, World War 2, Sartre, 'commitment', the Spanish Civil War, and all sorts of other things which are worlds away from our lives

I would think these things are of more import in our culture now than in any time in the past 20 years say.

Billy Dods, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That was Momus saying "Back to reality thank goodness, and now we're off to the Ideal Home exhibition hurrah": it is even bettah savoured in conjunction with his anti-smoking spasm...

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

yr "fit" post tim = very extremely concise summary of why i am uninterested in "pomo" as a concept, pro OR con. It's just too slack and dully capacious: it's not that it moves too little (like soul), it's that it can move much too much.

Punk is a better counter-example to your first "does that mean" question, I guess because its contradictions are dynamic not merely self-cancelling (or something).

btw it was the bad thinking of pomo-hatas first made me detest the term...

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

But "punk" is every bit as slack and movable as "pomo", and punk even had something resembling a founding cabal.

Part of the problem with "pomo" is frequent careless shoehorning of postmodernity (cultural condition) and postmodernism (grouping of cultural products). They obviously relate but are not even co- dependent.

I can't see any definition of 'fit for definition' other than "someone can be bothered to define it", without recourse to even airier concepts like intrinsic worth.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

first par: no it's not (slack? how?) and "founding cabal" = completely at war with one another from the off hurrah. It's conflicted and contradictory yeah sure: but this is USED not elided. Hmm I am getting dangerously close to a B.Watson "cleavage" stance...

re yr "fit" defn: i meant you had put very WELL what i was trying to say (my "it" refers to pomo, not what you said... ), so i don't think you need to refine it.

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Slack" because of the breadth of contradictory stuff which *legitimately* gets called punk in 2002 whenever there's a punk thread on ILM. "Contradictions are used" = applicable to all genres also in so far as genres are seen as about themselves (and what else are genres, eh?)

My point about genre definition can't be used as a stick to beat "pomo" because it equally applies to all defns (except, as you say, settled historical non-issues and even then applies up to a point).

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

no i disagree: not slack becuase no one who isn't a peabrain mentalist makes a statement about the limts of defn of punk w/o expecting an immediate argument: but pomo is like the poster child of genres where we agree to disagree w/o arguing, it's like a big old Who Cares of a Cupboard. "Does it entail 'pastiche'"? "Yeah maybe not always" "Irony?" "Fyerwant sure" "Is Duchamp pomo?" "Yes. No. What's the diff."

It's endlessly thrown about and I the reader don't have the BEGINNINGS of a clue what any given thrower intends by it... Do you Tim Hopkins think Momus upthread has defined it (a) coherently, (b) consensusly (c) at all? How do I know if I'm it? Momus says no I'm not because he seems to think I'm anti-Warhol because I don't like the term "post-modern", but his only stated reasons why I shd be pro-Warhol AND like the term seem to be "That's what cool people are doing at the moment you know" (an ideological twitch I associate w.modernism anyway, so where does the "post" come in: does it just mean "modernism", only forty years later?)

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Quick flip answer: k-blimey I didn't realise I was arguing that Momus defined anything coherently.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

To be fair to Mr. Momus I'm not sure he tried to define it. I have heard more "define pomo" arguments than I could throw at a dog and most of the time the dissatisfying thing is people mixing up the -ism and the -ity thing. In postmodernity we obv all are. You are postmodernist if I say you are.

And I do.

But the cosy agree-to-disagree situation you describe is not one I recognise, at least not any more than I recognise it in ref. to poonk.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I had a dream where Tom was explaining pomo to me on the bus. He said I had too much of a knee jerk reaction against it and it would improve my life if I engaged more critically with it. BUT LUCKILY I HAVE GIVEN UP THINKING so hooray it doesn't matter!!

BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TIM/MARK?!

Sarah, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It means everything to me. No it doesn't.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

don't ask me sarah: possibly the daring and insightful combo of "the modern world is rubbish" yet "everyone is groovy in their own way", either/or/both/neither/ho/hum

haha i just realised in the bath that MY argt required claim that momus posted in the belief that everyone wd quietly agree with him, so *i*R the peebrane mentalist there!

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Explain it at the pub quiz - you're coming tonight yes?

Sarah, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Perhaps Sinker could head a new POMONONO quango, and be the James Ferman to its BBFC?

I haven't defined POMOPOMOPOMO on this thread, but I believe we are living in the age of POMOPOMOPOMO whether we like it or not, and everything we do is POMOPOMOPOMO. Of course it's unclear and contradictory, but that won't stop future historians seeing our cultural output, from Steve McQueen to Steve McQueen, as POMOPOMOPOMO.

Momus, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Errr... I guess. What time is it again?

Wot is POMO: discuss with detailed ref. to Baran-Sinker peabrain mentalist quiz questions.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

sadly no, not me, i haf other fish to fry

haha get pete to ASK IT AT THE QUIZ!?!

Q: does the word "postmodernism" mean anything, and if so what?
A: [to be discovered tonite!]

Unaccepptable as answers: defns of postmodernity, which as Tim argues above DOES mean something and is in itself no very great problem.

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

everything we all do is pomo = i. it is a word w/o meaning, ii. it is ok for me to start smoking after all

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

wilhem de kooning called, he wants his thread back.

fritz, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Have you been stealing my TARDIS again, Mr Momus?

The Doctor, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Guh Mr. Momus your comment is exactly the elision of -ity and -ism I was on about: if we all live in a pomo cultural condition (end of grand narratives etc), that surely started to break up before 1962 and by the Lord you're not going to count AW as responsible for same?!

Alternatively, if you're talking about blank art etc (b. 1962, parent- midwife AW if you like, I mean feel free to identify this as the kick- off date) then we're not necessarily all living in it. Are we?

Once again your appeal to future historians strikes me as the lowest form of analysis, btw.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ack (ack), sorry: "that" in my first para = previous cultural condition ("modernity") which I'm arguing was all of-a-crumble well before 1962 if we're to accept ~ity as a cultural condition.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

6.30, Tim.

Sarah, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

See you then. Be sure to have done your preparatory reading.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Real actual date of PoMo era-started sighted!?! 1963 = first episode of Dr Who. Enter Momus in funny hat and trousers w. young curiously Eastern-looking grand daughter. Enter Daleks: LOOK+AT+US! WE+ WIN+THE+TURNER+PRIZE! Camera zooms in. Instead of big metal blobs on their shells they have bits of BLU-TAK! Iris out. The End.

Fritz: all the above is in fact the introductory exposition to an answer to my reply q to anthony's thread q viz: willem de kooning's alzheimer's paintings, are they art or not?

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Fritz: your (much appreciated) Creed joke, or Momus's understanding of same, was the stone which sent this thread careering from the WdK rails.

Tim, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Momus knows who Creed are! The Dutch stipple-ceramist Piet van Eek performed a Deconstructive Hommage in Earthenware to them at the Museet den PreMomo-ismus in 1999. And he read about it in the catalogue.

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

don't get me wrong - I love how far this thread has rambled. I was just imagining WdK (any relation to Andrew WK?) peering down (or up) at us and wondering what everyone was on about in the thread named in his honour.

fritz, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

If future historians don't mention this thread, then they're not historians as I understand history and it isn't the future as I understand time! Hah! Er does that last bit work?

mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sinker wins the Turner 2003 with 'Enter Daleks'. Is unable to receive it due to triple bluff bypass surgery, but seems satisfied when Kylie, disguised as a nurse, delivers it to his hospital bed. BBC 5 turns the vingette video into a parody of Potter's 'The Singing Detective'. Bless!

2004: Postmodernism ends, replaced by – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –. (Shalt thou speak the name of THY GOD before meeting him in THE KINGDOM?)

Momus, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Postmodernism will be replaced by pre__________, where _________ is pronounced by doing a raspberry to express the fact that we don't know what we are pre until it comes. However there is a definate knowledge that something, anything, will come along to help us out.

Pete, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

By the way, I am a future historian visiting this thread from 2077. I know what replaced PoMo, but I'm not allowed to tell you, because then I would be altering history.

Momus, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sinker wins the Turner 2003 with 'Enter Daleks'.

Now I have this image of Mark S on stage leading his band through a Metallica-styled rampage.

"TAKE...my HAND! It's OFF to GALLIFREY-LAND!"

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

but Momus, you just altered history by telling us you were from the future!

jel --, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oooh! Let's make PoMo like "New Wave" -- a cultural thread of evolving & disputed by self-declared definition. Thus New Wave films != New Wave music != BOMP 1976 != &c. but all are NEW WAVE. Similarly, PoMo novels (= post WWII disintegrative) != PoMo Architecture (= cross-period collision) != PoMo Theory (= christ, 5 billion things) != &c.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

but Momus, you just altered history by telling us you were from the future!

Oh all right, I suppose I can't do any more harm than I already have. I'll tell you. PostModernism was replaced, on or about December 2010, by Suffusionism, a worldview influenced by the Sufis after the Great Muslim War of -- arghhhh! ZANG! BONG! GROOOOING! GROOOING! What's happening? Hell, a tribunal of the Time Commissioners! ZIIKKK ZIIKKK Yes your lordships, I can only say -- WHOORRRRRY WHOOR! [Silence, smoke clears]

Momus, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Borag Thungg Earthlets! You see what happens to people who didn't read 2000AD when they were little?

Tharg, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I thought that PoMo is supposed to be some sort of cultural end-point, and that a movement away from it automatically = (by definition?) a regression?

Dan Irons, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

eleven years pass...
eleven years pass...

De Kooning at 90: Troubled Times
https://juddtully.net/articles/de-kooning-at-90-troubled-times/

Consideration of late de Kooning rapidly raises the specter of Picasso. In another essay, Rosenblum noted that there were those who believed—falsely in his opinion—that both artists “had become artistically senile. dissolving the skeleton of their earlier works in desperate slashes of paint.” When Picasso’s late paintings were shown in Avignon in 1973, shortly after his death. they were quietly but universally hashed as the addled attempts of a spent master. Today, though, that opinion has changed considerably, both in criticism and in commerce.

There is, of course, at least one huge difference between the two great artists. Picasso maintained his intellectual faculties until the end. while de Kooning has gradually lost his brilliance through Alzheimer’s disease. In fact, de Kooning has not painted for several years, even as, aided by round-the-clock nurses, he continues to live in the glass-walled studio-home that he designed in East Hampton, Long Island. Says Robert Storr, the widely published critic and Museum of Modern Art curator (he, with Kirk Varnedoe, was instrumental in MoMA’s decision to acquire in April 1991 de Kooning’s Untitled VII from 1985), “The point at which de Kooning was no longer the final judge of his work is the point at which the debate changes its character.”

In that debate, the de Koonings of the ’80s have their champions as well as detractors. Although well-known collectors such as Asher B. Edelman, Graham Gund, Peter Ludwig and Leslie Wexner have acquired them, it is widely assumed that commercial rather than critical considerations have, so far, been the prime mover for the late work. A sense even prevails in some quarters that much of the market interest surrounding this work is tinged with impatience for the artist to die. “What hurts his reputation the most is the fact that he’s still around,” says one New York dealer.

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 1 February 2025 08:11 (one week ago) link

Ha! Timely. I just posted this on my FB a minute ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhBhv_jZK5k

completely suited to the horny decadence (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 1 February 2025 09:52 (one week ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.