Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

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http://www.google.com/pfetch/dchart?s=DJI http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5648/dollarohnopq6.png

here we go guys

El Tomboto, Thursday, 18 October 2007 23:44 (sixteen years ago) link

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/10/more-inflation.html

El Tomboto, Thursday, 18 October 2007 23:44 (sixteen years ago) link

personally I'm applying for a civil servant position ASAP

El Tomboto, Thursday, 18 October 2007 23:45 (sixteen years ago) link

Just FYI, during the 1930s depression, many civil servants were paid with vouchers rather than cash, because local governments were unable to collect property taxes and their receipts fell into the shitbin.

Aimless, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Economy's doing poorly enough as it stands, why do we deliberately want to roll it into the shitbin?

Abbott, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Because that way Hillary can rescue us all.

Dandy Don Weiner, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:17 (sixteen years ago) link

lol property taxes

El Tomboto, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:18 (sixteen years ago) link

shitbin's a great word, BTW.

Dandy Don Weiner, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link

you been loving my thread titles lately

El Tomboto, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:26 (sixteen years ago) link

i came to this country some time ago with little more than a crippling debt burden in GB Pounds and the shirt on my back. i used to have to send back $1,200 each month to pay off my UK debt, and now I'm sending back over $1,400 to cover the same amount of debt repayment. that's two and a half thousand dollars disappearing from my tiny disposable income every year, for no explicable reason. i *heart* the decline of the US economy.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:27 (sixteen years ago) link

anyway why start this thread now because the bit where ritholtz points out that domino's pizza can't print new menus fast enough to keep up with inflation was pretty fucking amazing

I wish rasheed wallace was still around to show us the latest and greatest exploding bubble blogs

El Tomboto, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:28 (sixteen years ago) link

wow Roberto that was some shitty timing, that sucks

El Tomboto, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:29 (sixteen years ago) link

This was in the paper today:

Mortgage defaults

Hit an annual rate of 1.5 million in September. That compares with 900,000 last year from fewer than 800,000 in 2005. At the current rate, more than one million Americans will lose their homes to foreclosure, making this the worst housing recession since the Second World War.

Housing starts

Sank to a 14-year low of 1.19 million in September. Starts are a vital economic engine, creating jobs and growth as people stuff their homes with sofas and TVs. Starts peaked at 2.3 million in early 2006, and the decline will be a drag on the rest of the economy until the slide stops.

Mortgages

A quarter of the roughly 50 million U.S. home mortgages are subprime. That's seven times the number of high-risk mortgages there were in 2001. That means that many more marginal homeowners have mortgages, making it far more likely they'll wind up in default.

House prices

Fell 3.2 per cent in the second quarter. Prices are falling faster and more broadly than they have in decades, according to the closely watched Case-Shiller index.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071018.IBUSECONOMY18/TPStory/Business

everything, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:29 (sixteen years ago) link

where the hell is rasheed anyway?

economic blogs I read (they're all fairly liberal):

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/
http://www.janegalt.net/

Dandy Don Weiner, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:37 (sixteen years ago) link

In regard to inflation, in the USA during the past three years inflation has been soaring - but almost entirely in the housing sector. The fact that people are encouraged to see their houses as investments rather than as expenses doesn't mean that skyrocketing housing costs weren't inflationary. They were.

As the bubble market bursts, I predict a recession with an extra added bonus of inflation running close to 10% - before the end of 2008. As it has for the past 30 years, the official CPI will understate the real inflation rate. It was rigged under Reagan so that government entitlement programs indexed to the CPI would not increase at the true pace of inflation.

If Bush continues to shovel shit on the dollar right up to the end of his term in January 2009, the inflation rate could hit 15%-20% by 2010.

Aimless, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:55 (sixteen years ago) link

There are some good economics articles put up here as well:
http://www.VoxEU.org

stet, Friday, 19 October 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link

Which shit on the dollar are you referring to?

Dandy Don Weiner, Friday, 19 October 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link

As the bubble market bursts, I predict a recession with an extra added bonus of inflation running close to 10% - before the end of 2008.

lol

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Friday, 19 October 2007 06:11 (sixteen years ago) link

this is why i live in canada!

J0rdan S., Friday, 19 October 2007 06:13 (sixteen years ago) link

oh wait.

J0rdan S., Friday, 19 October 2007 06:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Guys, this is a good time stay in academia right?

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Friday, 19 October 2007 11:51 (sixteen years ago) link

It's a good time to learn a European language.

Nubbelverbrennung, Friday, 19 October 2007 13:33 (sixteen years ago) link

Prime shit examples:

When Bush was elected in 2000, the federal budget was in surplus and the national debt was being paid down. Had this state of affairs continued, as projected, it would have led both to lower interest rates and a strong dollar, together. Instead, Bush submitted a series of enormous tax cuts to the Republican-controlled Congress and lobbied them through. Immediately, the CBO's projected budget surpluses turned to projected deficits for the next decade.

Bush also initiated a war of choice, not necessity, in Iraq. This war has already cost well over $700 billion. Yet, Bush insisted on making his tax cuts permanent. Overall, the national debt has increased under Bush by about $2 trillion in seven years. This represents a difference of about $3 trillion of debt from what was projected at the start of his first term.

Because, due to Bush's tax cuts and other policies, the Federal government was in a far weaker position to stimulate the economy when the recession started after 9/11, almost the entire stimulus was delivered via lower interest rates. Because these rate cuts were artificial, and not based on a stronger dollar, this stimulus not only inflated the current housing bubble, but it also undercut the dollar even more than the ballooning national debt did.

Now the dollar is at an all-time low against the euro and the canadian dollar. However, the incomes of the top 10% of American households have increased at a good clip, while the lower 50% of households have seen a decrease in income after inflation. This is largely thanks to Bush's shitty policies. I expect more of the same mismanagement until he is gone.

Aimless, Saturday, 20 October 2007 18:36 (sixteen years ago) link

I agree with everything you've just said. You're predictions still seem a tad extreme on the downside though, if I may so.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Saturday, 20 October 2007 18:50 (sixteen years ago) link

i wonder if income inequality will ever arrive as a political issue in this country. americans tend to not begrudge the rich - so it'll have to be more of a "for everyone's good" type of angle. no?

jhøshea, Saturday, 20 October 2007 18:54 (sixteen years ago) link

I remember the 1970s and early 80s quite well. Back then people couldn't belileve it, either. Bush has done a bangup job of recreating many of the same policy errors under Johnson and Nixon that led to raging stagflation back then, except the underlying economy is now weaker than it was in the 1970s and the oil shocks we are likely to get are not political, as when OPEC was formed, but structural.

Oil will exceed $100/barrel some time this winter. The ever-weakening dollar will lead to smaller profit margins and rising retail prices on all imported goods (which means almost everything we buy in the USA). Transport costs will rise with pil prices. Stock prices will erode along with profits. With so many savings tied up in stocks and home equity, consumer spending will be crunched, and personal debt and bancruptcies will rise like a tide. Businesses will retrench and unemployment will rise. No end in sight.

I hope I am wrong.

Aimless, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:07 (sixteen years ago) link

Anyone want to join my modern-day James Gang? We shall ride across the lower Midwest, robbing and pillaging.

milo z, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

sounds fun

jhøshea, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Sorry, I don't want to relocate. But this scheme sounds ripe for franchising.

Aimless, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Oil will exceed $100/barrel some time this winter. The ever-weakening dollar will lead to smaller profit margins and rising retail prices on all imported goods (which means almost everything we buy in the USA). Transport costs will rise with pil prices. Stock prices will erode along with profits. With so many savings tied up in stocks and home equity, consumer spending will be crunched, and personal debt and bancruptcies will rise like a tide. Businesses will retrench and unemployment will rise. No end in sight.

I hope I am wrong.

-- Aimless, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:07 (14 minutes ago) Link

The coming of $100/barrel oil is not Bush's fault. It's yours and mine and everyone else's for using too damned much energy. I agree Bush could and should have done a lot more with policy to encourage energy efficiency, but there's little he could have done to stop oil's eventual rise to that price level.

Hurting 2, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:26 (sixteen years ago) link

Part of the pricing of oil represents the weakness of the dollar. This hurts the USA more than it does other countries. US citizens are paid in dollars and the US government collects revenue in dollars, so they are stuck. EU countries can use euros to buy increasingly cheap dollars, so they don't see the same rise in prices as we do. The weakness of the dollar is mainly Bush's fault.

Aimless, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:31 (sixteen years ago) link

The US also uses way more oil than other countries.

Hurting 2, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:33 (sixteen years ago) link

he could have done to stop oil's eventual rise to that price level.
Not starting a war in Iraq would definitely have helped here.

stet, Saturday, 20 October 2007 19:57 (sixteen years ago) link

arrgh, if that won't work then
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2007/10/imf-mortgage-reset-chart.html

El Tomboto, Monday, 22 October 2007 17:47 (sixteen years ago) link

tombot u r freakin me out

gff, Monday, 22 October 2007 17:50 (sixteen years ago) link

i hope my small apartment + modest savings plan + job in "information services" is enough to weather the shitstorm, if it comes. i got myself out of credit card debt a few months ago, at least

gff, Monday, 22 October 2007 17:53 (sixteen years ago) link

well if you can hold down a job and don't have to worry about an ARM reset you should be okay, it's the homeowner with kids and a subprime loan and two cars who ought to be shitting themselves

El Tomboto, Monday, 22 October 2007 17:58 (sixteen years ago) link

apart from some student loans and binging on credit cards over a few years, i'm kind of debt phobic.

which has actually made me lose out over the past several years, i realize, since i pay for EVERYTHING with a debit/check card... i could have just paid that balance on a credit card with some rewards scheme and has some air miles or something

gff, Monday, 22 October 2007 18:00 (sixteen years ago) link

rolling gff personal finances into the shitbin thread, ha

gff, Monday, 22 October 2007 18:01 (sixteen years ago) link

This will give you a boner Tombot

http://nymag.com/guides/money/2007/39952/

Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 11:30 (sixteen years ago) link

the economy increased by 3.9% this quarter! bull market forever, baby. economy's better than ever. golden age.

yet me and so many people I know are getting laid off next month. granted we're all in the writing/design field, but urhhhhh. gggg.

burt_stanton, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:58 (sixteen years ago) link

http://nymag.com/guides/money/2007/catastrophist071105_560.jpg
http://nymag.com/guides/money/2007/catastrophist071105_2_560.jpg

^^^ lol

most of that guy's scenario is not really news to regular bigpicture/CR readers I don't think. But #5, the "we don't pay attention" thing, yeah, well, evidently the awareness campaign is underway, but hell if the big players are paying attention.

He also leaves out the approaching demographic catastrophe as millions of inexperienced thirtysomethings and even some late-twenties kids are forced to move into arguably tougher jobs that the boomers have been holding for two decades. Beyond the social security and healthcare costs associated with mass retirement, I don't really know if this generation has the work ethic and definitely not the rolodex to just start filling in and not fuck up royally. too busy updating their linkedin pages.

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link

can someone explain what "being upside down on your mortgage" means, in plain English?

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:14 (sixteen years ago) link

essentially, owing more than your home is worth.

Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:10 (sixteen years ago) link

also Tombot I'm not going to blame this generation as much as I blame their parents.

Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:11 (sixteen years ago) link

isn't that the way people buy homes? by paying for the privilege of a loan?

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:12 (sixteen years ago) link

When you enter into a contract with a bank for a mortgage, both you and the bank assume that the property value will not plummet. The bank doesn't want you to default any more than you want to default. But if for whatever reason you need to sell your home, and you can't get what you owe on it, then you will owe the difference to the bank. And the bank knows that when that happens, you probably will not have enough assets to cover the difference.

Predatory-type loans (which seems like a nebulous description to me) typically compound the problem because they have higher transaction rates (points, etc.)

Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:17 (sixteen years ago) link

oh certainly! well played baby boom letting healthcare slide for the 20 years you've owned the electorate

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:18 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah Tracer it's also called "negative equity"

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:19 (sixteen years ago) link

I don’t think ‘financial literacy’ is a panacea - “don’t buy toys on a 27.99% credit card,” yeah okay but credit is how you get to have toys, treats and vacations at all when your rent is 40% of your income.

The economy didn’t become what it is because we bought shit on credit, we bought shit on credit because the economy is what it is.

papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:47 (five months ago) link

we had a business class in 5th grade that taught us about how to be entrepreneurs and how the assembly line worked, and we basically were shown how to assemble a pen, then put into groups of 5 that competed against each other with a disassembled pen, and first asked to assemble as many pens as we could each individually in something like 2-3 minutes time, then to use the assembly line method with our group in the same timeframe, which was supposed to illustrate to us how much faster and more productive that was.

for each competition, they counted how many working pens each group assembled and crowned the winner. except the demonstration backfired when one group got zero working pens with the assembly line method because the kid at the end of the line was a doofus and put his piece in upside down for all of the pens.

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:51 (five months ago) link

then the frustrated instructor said "that's business, baby!" and promptly leaped out the window

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:52 (five months ago) link

The real business class is coming up with the idea to put one of the non-working pens in each package of working pens so that it's not found until it's too late to return the whole box.

papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:55 (five months ago) link

My kids both had a high school financial literacy requirement. But we've also both been very good about teaching them good habits, advice I'm not sure most kids get.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 January 2024 23:55 (five months ago) link

Very good advice, but we still have this problem, which will not be overcome with all the financial literacy in the world:

we've got an economy that has crushed the middle class, hasn't raised up the poor, and has funnelled our money to the top few percent

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:57 (five months ago) link

This kind of economy how the all-volunteer military fills its quotas.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 5 January 2024 23:59 (five months ago) link

agreed however it is fun to talk about the bizarrely shitty financial education americans get. my economics class was taught by the PE/driver's Ed teacher and all we did for weeks was pick stocks out of the newspaper and see if they went up or down, and keep track of how much money we'd "made" or "lost". for one day only, near the end of the term, there was a stilted lesson on "Other economic models" which included "command and control" as one of the types

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:03 (five months ago) link

I don’t think ‘financial literacy’ is a panacea

Agree with this wholeheartedly, but I think we can impart knowledge about just how fucking predatory our economic system really is, and how to navigate it while keeping your head somewhat above water... like, if you see a 'rent to own' sign, just walk the other way

Andy the Grasshopper, Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:03 (five months ago) link

Also: timeshare properties!

Andy the Grasshopper, Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:05 (five months ago) link

I have never heard anyone say, "Man, I'm glad we got that timeshare!"

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:09 (five months ago) link

Rent to own is predatory and also the only way he had non-curb find furniture when I was a kid is the problem.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:09 (five months ago) link

One of the best pieces of financial advice I ever heard came from Lemmy; I asked him at the end of an interview if he had any advice for young bands (not even specifying financial advice) and he said, "If the record label gives you the name of a lawyer you can have look over the contract, laugh in their face, get up and walk out."

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Saturday, 6 January 2024 00:22 (five months ago) link

I don’t think ‘financial literacy’ is a panacea - “don’t buy toys on a 27.99% credit card,” yeah okay but credit is how you get to have toys, treats and vacations at all when your rent is 40% of your income.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, January 5, 2024 6:47 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

if you could afford to pay off the credit debt plus interest, you could’ve just saved the same amount and ended up with more money. unless you meant you’d file for bankruptcy?

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 06:22 (five months ago) link

In a couple of years saving up you could definitely get that toy or weeklong vacation - if your alternator doesn't die or your pet doesn't get sick or etc..

I don't believe people generally take on credit card debt because they're morons who can't figure out that compound interest is bad - if not an actual necessity (vet bill, mechanic, my current credit card debt is for a root canal and cap because Obamacare dental plans are all a joke), it's the option for making life a little more bearable.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 6 January 2024 06:48 (five months ago) link

I've always wondered if there was a way to estimate what percentage of people taking personal austerity measures and getting debt-free becomes unsustainable because it tanks the overall economy.

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 6 January 2024 14:42 (five months ago) link

The germans seem to do fine

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 6 January 2024 14:51 (five months ago) link

I always got the impression that german austerity measures were a bad recipe (though I guess that's more macro than personal household policy)

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 6 January 2024 14:57 (five months ago) link

In a couple of years saving up you could definitely get that toy or weeklong vacation - if your alternator doesn't die or your pet doesn't get sick or etc..

but the same logic applies to paying off the credit card debt. “In a couple of years up you could definitely pay off the credit card debt from that toy or weeklong vacation - if your alternator doesn't die or your pet doesn't get sick or etc..” is describing the exact same situation it’s just more money because of the interest

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 15:38 (five months ago) link

I was talking more about the german culture of financial restraint but yes xp

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Saturday, 6 January 2024 16:06 (five months ago) link

but the same logic applies to paying off the credit card debt

Except for the part where you got to go on vacation.

Yes, the person then has to eventually pay it off, declare bankruptcy or get stuck in an eternal loop of payments. I think we’re all agreed that credit cards are bad. That just doesn’t mean people are unaware of the concept of interest and would stop using them if only they knew.

papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 6 January 2024 16:35 (five months ago) link

Do these debt stats (86-106%) mean that German households are basically are accruing (and paying off) debt roughly equivalent to their income or that their outstanding debt is about a year's worth of income?

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/households-debt-to-income#:~:text=Households%20Debt%20in%20Germany%20decreased,source%3A%20EUROSTAT

Because if it's the former, then that paints an unflattering picture of what "low" debt means -- you're basically treading water.

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 6 January 2024 16:43 (five months ago) link

It is difficult, if not impossible, to do many things (e.g., rent a car) if you have no credit history.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:02 (five months ago) link

lol i'm kinda laughing at flopson itt. clearly someone who has never been poor.

when you're desperate for a reason to live, you don't make rational financial decisions. the only financial education poor people need is .. the knowledge that comes from having more money in their bank account every month.

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:07 (five months ago) link

I mean, part of my economic downfall was trying to be helpful to family and overextending, but I also was chasing highs from hedonistic escapades as part of a protracted midlife crisis and...yeah, I was throwing hotel stays and big bar tabs on credit cards. snapped out of it and don't do that anymore but credit cards don't care, once the sin's committed you're stuck til it's paid off over time or through some windfall you get.

so yeah, map/milo otm. if I've had a really bad month and there's something I want to do that might cheer me up but it's a bad idea financially....if I'm the average person, I probably just do it.

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:14 (five months ago) link

not to mention, y'know how many family vacations are things moms and dads are going "the smile on my kid's face makes this all worth it, but this is going to HURT"

Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:17 (five months ago) link

absolutely unheard of for a person struggling with poverty to also have mental health and/or trauma issues on top of that. poor people aren't thinking of the future, they're thinking about how to survive right now, they've usually been in this mode for years, and they're so starved for pleasure that doesn't come with horrible consequences that a big credit card purchase is an attractive option. like, get those shoes you've always dreamed about owning or claw out an existence in self-imposed austerity for three years in the hopes that it will give you a little more padding in case of an emergency? and given the fact that you don't have stable mental health or relationships, how the fuck are you going to be strong enough to do the latter?

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:35 (five months ago) link

agreed. it’s also gross how people with money will latch on to the thing they perceive as an extravagance that someone scraping by owns, when that’s probably someone’s prized possession that they actually value and maintain because they understand that windfall may not come again

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:44 (five months ago) link

owning a house, owning real estate - that is a fucking extravagance.

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:47 (five months ago) link

An extravagance? It's out of reach for too many people, but it's hardly an extravagance. Owning a home should be within the reach of most of us. I realize that it isn't, but it should be.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 17:58 (five months ago) link

milo's point is that constantly living hand to mouth with no visible path out of that situation creates a reality which cannot be improved by any financial advice that applies to people with even tiny amounts of discretionary income. anyone who's lived that kind of poverty very long understands this.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:10 (five months ago) link

map: i agree with everything that you wrote in your posts. it’s true that i’ve never been poor—my income has been below official poverty lines for many years but it wasn’t acute or severe poverty, which i would never claim to have first-hand experience of—but my post wasn’t meant to be prescriptive; i’m bad at personal finances, have a lot of debt and no savings, live paycheck to paycheck. i haven’t been on vacation in years but if i did i would almost surely go deeper into debt in the process. credit provides real value (both psychologically and economically) but is also highly exploitative and regressive, and i do think some of that exploitativeness is derived from the financial illiteracy/irrational economic decisions of borrowers. as you said it’s more about psychology than economics. milo’s posts that i was replying to seemed to me to be saying “sure credit debt is bad how else could you ever afford a vacation” but imo that’s a purely illusory value of credit. the credit card company doesn’t pay for your vacation; *you* pay for it, and then on top of it you also pay them interest. they are profiting off of your impatience, lack of impulse control, poor financial planning skills. i don’t think that’s good. hopefully its possible to think that without denigrating a person who would make that decision. anyways sorry if my post read as victim-blamey or seemed condescending/aloof, that wasn’t my intention

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:29 (five months ago) link

imo there’s a difference between saying “you shouldn’t have spent money on this small pleasure” versus “you shouldn’t buy so much on credit.” my sister is far from poor but spends way too much on credit due to an addiction to online shopping and always has huge debt which she’s paying for out the wazoo in interest fees. she can *afford* everything she’s buying, it’s just the way she’s spaced out the payments/purchases in time that’s costing her more

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:36 (five months ago) link

otm. My parents had this problem, I am sure it contributed to the breakup of their marriage.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:41 (five months ago) link

owning a house, owning real estate - that is a fucking extravagance.

― ꙮ (map), Saturday, 6 January 2024 12:47 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

An extravagance? It's out of reach for too many people, but it's hardly an extravagance. Owning a home should be within the reach of most of us. I realize that it isn't, but it should be.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 12:58 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

whether or not you think owning homes is an extravagance or not, housing markets with lower shares of owners (for example in many parts of europe where long term rentals are more common, or in singapore where every residence is technically public housing on a 99-year lease from the government) tend to function much better. when housing is primarily based on home ownership, increasing affordability means decreasing property values of home owners, which puts the two goals in opposition. only one generation can both buy cheap homes and have them be a source of wealth

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:46 (five months ago) link

I guess it depends on what you mean by "function." It's a truism that renters build up no equity.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:48 (five months ago) link

that’s good though. making money off home equity means house prices are going up, which means housing is becoming less affordable. there are other sources of equity, but there’s only one housing market

flopson, Saturday, 6 January 2024 19:56 (five months ago) link

If the assumption is that if the US had more renters, rental laws would be stronger, I think that's a pretty bad assumption to make.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 6 January 2024 21:29 (five months ago) link

They'd definitely be stronger, for landlords.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 6 January 2024 21:30 (five months ago) link

real chicken and egg situation and it assumes the organization of renters in absence of regulation can happen. you have to be a real piece of shit as a landlord, usually in areas other than that, to face repercussions

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 6 January 2024 22:01 (five months ago) link

agreed. it’s also gross how people with money will latch on to the thing they perceive as an extravagance that someone scraping by owns, when that’s probably someone’s prized possession that they actually value and maintain because they understand that windfall may not come again

― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, January 6, 2024 12:44 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Related pet peeve: people who apparently think that every mobile phone is a iPhone and every personal computer is a Mac. 1) These items are not always as big an extravagance as these critics assume, and 2) try functioning in the world as we know it without reliable online access (especially getting and keeping a job).

Infanta Terrible (j.lu), Saturday, 6 January 2024 22:34 (five months ago) link

just batshit crazy. it’s nearly impossible to do anything without access to a computer of some sort and for the vast majority of the population, that’s a phone

one of the things support groups use to help the unhoused is to help them charge their phones. what are they going to do, sell their phone for exactly zero dollars and then be even worse off?

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 6 January 2024 23:45 (five months ago) link

four months pass...

Evidence that people being down on the economy is not just the result of “vibes” or falling for Republican talking points:

https://wapo.st/3R0UpKl

Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 25 May 2024 15:54 (two weeks ago) link

Gift link ^^. Article is about increasing credit card defaults, especially among young people.

Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 25 May 2024 15:57 (two weeks ago) link

It’s still so wild to me that “most people struggling” is a fucking epistemological break that well-off liberals just don’t believe these days. We truly live in a sick age.

he/him hoo-hah (map), Saturday, 25 May 2024 19:38 (two weeks ago) link

The article provides the reassurance we need in these unsettled times:

Wall Street has so far brushed off concerns about rising credit debt levels and payment struggles, forecasting earnings growth to accelerate from 5.6% in the first quarter to 17.1% by the fourth quarter.

But it also ends with a warning from an expert who understands how we should view these rising credit card delinquencies:

“If our forecast of a benign moderation in the labor market is correct, we think consumer spending will remain resilient,” wrote Michael Gapen, Bank of America Global Research analyst. “However, elevated credit card delinquencies among lower-income consumers could increase the sensitivity of these consumers to an adverse labor market shock.”

Truly spoken from the heart, Mr. Gapen.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 25 May 2024 20:36 (two weeks ago) link

The most minor of minor shitbinnery (relating to food prices, specifically) but I buy boxes of Clif Bars to have at work and noticed a couple weeks ago that they weren't being restocked and had a 'DISCONTINUED' label on the shelf underneath and I'm like, what's that about, and I found out what that was about when the shelves began to be restocked with the same size boxes for the same price except now there are five bars per package instead of six and each of the bars are noticeably smaller than before, and well

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fgns8tc2oof3d1.png

You love to see it (Mondelez says so).

Great-Tasting Burger Perceptions (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 4 June 2024 16:14 (one week ago) link

The FBI raided the offices of mega-landlord Cortland Management over algorithmic price-fixing that keeps apartments empty and raises rents across the country. I don't like Matt Stoller, but he's got a good write-up about it.

Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Tuesday, 4 June 2024 16:55 (one week ago) link

More grist for the mill:

Washington Post reports that “Average hourly wage growth accelerated sharply in May, to $34.91, up 4.1 percent from the previous year. Wages have consistently beaten inflation for nearly a year, boosting American workers’ standard of living after years of wages falling behind inflation.”

Gift link: https://wapo.st/3x6r36s

Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 8 June 2024 14:44 (six days ago) link


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