Subways are for sleeping: NYC Transit survival thread

The eternal dilemma when headed back to Queens from downtown on the Eighth Avenue line: whether to switch to the 7 at 42nd Street and spend time walking the tunnel from Eighth to Seventh Avenue or to stay on the E and sit in the tunnel for a mini-eternity between Queens Plaza and Roosevelt.

The mayor of New York City everyone! pic.twitter.com/zCkXg0MgVR

— Second Ave. Sagas (@2AvSagas) December 19, 2017

so dumb. he's against congestion pricing cuz cuomo's for it.

also for banning e-bikes - why did i vote for this guy

speaking of Prince Andy

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2017/12/19/cuomo-now-pins-subway-problems-on-the-state-legislature-154223

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html

3-6x the cost of projects in rational metropolises, in a nutshell

i used to think, oh subways in asia are great because human labor is so cheap, worker exploitation etc. but the paris example really stands out.

so, this is getting bumped and commented mainly around the theme of union featherbedding etc. etc. the numbers in the article are eyebrow-raising for sure but then there is this passage, which doesn't really get the same kind of detailed followup in terms of counting up the dollars:

In other parts of the world, companies bidding on transit projects typically add 10 percent to their estimated costs to account for profit, overhead and change orders, contractors in five continents said. Final profit is usually less than 5 percent of the total project cost, which is sufficient given the size of the projects, the contractors said.

Things are much different in New York. In a series of interviews, dozens of M.T.A. contractors described how vendors routinely increase their estimated costs when bidding for work.

First, the contractors said, the vendors add between 15 and 25 percent as an “M.T.A. Factor” because of how hard it can be to work within the bureaucracy of the transit authority. Then they add 10 percent as a contingency for possible changes. And then they add another 10-12 percent on top of all that for profit and overhead.

like... holy shit! so added up that's... 35-47 percent?! versus 5? can that be right??! it'd be nice if the authors did the math for us, but it seems like that kind of creative estimate-padding would equal hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars (or bond dollars whose interest and principal will be paid by taxpayers down the line)... in pure gravy! for the shareholders of the vendor corporations! that seems like the biggest hugest scandal ever. but it doesn't really get followed up; we kind of rest with this lame statement from an industry person, claiming they barely make a profit. which isn't fact-checked like some other statements in the article (helpfully) are:

Denise Richardson, the executive director of the General Contractors Association, which represents construction companies on M.T.A. projects, said the surcharges are needed because the vendors assume huge risks on transit projects and often are forced to pay for mistakes made by the authority. At the end of the day, she said, the companies make a relatively small profit.

“It is profit, not covering costs, that allows a firm to hire more people, expand their administrative space and buy new equipment,” Ms. Richardson said. “Firms that only cover their costs do not stay in business.”

imo if there is going to be political movement here that breaks the impasse, it isn't going to just be from outrage over 'those greedy union workers,' nor should it be. something is deeply rotten in the entire system and it sounds like it starts with the bosses, not the workers, even if it would also be sensible policy and politics to look into putting pressure on some of those contract provisions. but if the bosses are ripping us off for a hundred and the workers are ripping us off for five, i know where i'd start in trying to get costs under control.

also holy cow at all that white-collar goldbricking and budget inflation. full time salaried teams finessing station openings, ten years before they're opening.

I'm sure the MTA, like any bureaucratic behemoth, is riddled with corruption and inefficiencies, but I was just talking to my dad over the holiday about working with large companies during his 30 years as an energy systems engineer, and he said for customers with difficult policies or personalities it's customary to add 20% for your trouble. Especially if they make you eat costs that arise during the project and they're so powerful that you can't push it back on them. I imagine the MTA is very much like that.

federalism, ain't it great!

"do you want to live in a world without pyramids?"

re https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/subway-station-booth-agents.html

Ok this obviously bothers me a lot. Let's talk a little about the American Cult of Innovation. pic.twitter.com/5AWybawRAI

— Michael T Sweeney (@mtsw) December 28, 2017

aka 'not invented here' aka the reason why we haven't replaced metrocards yet

we couldn't just... copy a system from elsewhere

we're moving to contactless! https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/nyregion/metrocard-subway-new-york.html

one of my local station's turnstile swipe units goes out about once every few weeks for a good day and there's generally a pile up until someone props the emergency gate open

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/magazine/subway-new-york-city-public-transportation-wealth-inequality.html

xxpost ... in 2023. for fun, read all entries marked 'metrocard' on second avenue sagas and see how long its replacement has been discussed and in so many forms.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/31/the-end-of-the-metrocard-is-somewhat-near/

or in 2007, when it was lamented as a 13-year-old "nearly obsolete" technology!

i like obsolete technology, mostly

First great commute of the year this evening

that nyt link mookie posted is pretty good

Have you seen the 3 little arrows now appearing on the floor just in front of the doors of some cars, presumably meant to get the immobile dunces to move in? Isn't that DARLING?

so what the fuck happened today?

broken rail on the Manhattan Bridge

outstanding

Idk because luckily I was done w my commute by 8am thanks to a painfully early schedule this week. Was it gruesome?

xp oh jesus help us

my gf got caught in it and had to keep checking stations to figure out what was/wasn't moving. i deleted twitter and i suspect not having a real-time MTA feed will be the only great loss

officially a "rail CONDITION"

https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-subway-delays-1.16028518

I skipped 3 Q trains at Atlantic because they were crammed, the 4th was still super full, must have been hellish for people who need to get to work on time

i was wedged into a Q

my commute only took 1.5 hours extra this morning

today the conductor apologized for the 3 train being crowded, which was nice, but on the other hand when the fuck isn't the 3 crowded during rush hour

our conductor walked the cars during one of our 20-minute periods that we spent between each station to apologize and check if everyone was feeling ok, and whenever we were in a station he made an announcement that amounted to 'get off this thing now while you've got the chance'

those words should be over the door of every car

I weighed my chances with the roads and rode to work today. Thankfully. I was extra cautious so it "only" took an hour which apparently is 40% of the time it would have taken on the MTA.

Good call, I should have done the same

nothin much wrong with the Q today, where did I go right?

unfortunately my commute doesn't really work with a car -- the only way to save time is to spend $20 on a cab down the west side highway to the 72nd st. stop, and that's only if traffic on the west side highway is actually moving

Is it wrong that the number one reason I am putting off going to NY and dealing with my apt is because of the subway situation? I read this thread and get anxious all over again.

(and even that only saves you about 5 minutes, and that's assuming you get to the 72nd St. stop exactly when an express train arrives, so really, why bother)

that "visit door to door to show a human face of the MTA" tactic appears to be their new thing. it's nice enough but it's like the free wifi. please stop providing lace and doilies and fix the goddamn sewing machine

I've never seen it -- with the level of crowding on the subway I don't see how it's even possible

unfortunately my commute doesn't really work with a car -- the only way to save time is to spend $20 on a cab down the west side highway to the 72nd st. stop, and that's only if traffic on the west side highway is actually moving

― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:20 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The traffic on West Street is greatly improved from the back of a motorcycle. Then it doesn't matter if traffic isn't moving.

Admittedly if I worked in Midtown it wouldn't make sense for me to ride, I guess. I mean it would still be more fun than the subway but it probably wouldn't be any faster.

that "visit door to door to show a human face of the MTA" tactic

The other morning I was feeling kind of rough and then I was held momentarily by the train's dispatcher. It was nice.

you are being held momentarily due to train traffic ahead

there is another ___ train directly behind this one

lies

Yeah the Next Train displays now provide an instant readout of how big a lie that invariably is

increasingly frequent novelty: two countdown clocks on the same platform displaying different information.