ILX running running thread

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I couldn't find the old thread where we were talking about this, so here's a new one.

First of all Sanoodi is awesome. Much better than Google Maps Pedometer for keeping track of your runs. Here is my run from this past weekend, the longest distance I have run in my adult life. Yeah, I was going slow and basically shuffling my feet for 8 miles, but it felt great.

Jeff, Monday, 25 June 2007 17:08 (twelve years ago) link

After years of mocking, I've suddenly got into running (mostly because I can do at 2am after work when everything else is shut). I haven't bought any fancy tech yet, because I know that way lies importing specialist kecks from Japan that reduce drag coef by 0.002 somethings, but could definitely do with some proper shoes.

stet, Monday, 25 June 2007 17:17 (twelve years ago) link

one year passes...

I wish to talk about running.

I can run 5.5 miles now (52 min.), which is truly astounding to me b/c there was a time not too long ago when I could not run a single mile.

So - what is your time? How far? Where? Etc.

differently valid (Jesse), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 16:03 (ten years ago) link

i am trying to go farther b/c i'm doing a half marathon in may but i have a weird thing where i'm afraid to go far away from my house because what if i break my ankle and have to limp 5 miles back or something? so i go in loops a lot. also i hate running when it's light out. wtf is wrong with me?

я рилли (harbl), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 16:30 (ten years ago) link

I've thought about running farther out than I can run back. Do you live somewhere w/ public transit? If not, I'd advise that maybe you bring cab fare or your phone so you can call a friend. I've been running on a treadmill, so this hasn't been a problem. When spring comes I'll take it outside.

I don't know about running when it's light out! What is it that bothers you about it?

differently valid (Jesse), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 16:41 (ten years ago) link

i dunno, people looking at me and stuff. and you can see how far away stuff is so it makes it feel like more effort. running is such a mental thing, i can't even make myself do it sometimes because i'm remembering that last time was hard, even though it was also fun.

we have public transit, i could do that

я рилли (harbl), Wednesday, 25 February 2009 16:46 (ten years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Did my first run across the Brooklyn Bridge yesterday -- lots of fun. Total run was something like 3.2 miles.

Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:13 (ten years ago) link

Started running again for the second time in my life ever. Gave it up after my first 10k, found it too boring. Gearing up for a more manageable 5k in june sometime, hoping to break 20mins.

ledge, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:23 (ten years ago) link

am ratcheting up my irregular runs into regular ones - dunno how far it is but i usually run along the dalston canal from queensbridge rd to victoria park (approach rd) and back again - cracked some sort of barrier this week when i managed to do it all in one go, rather than stopping to die halfway through.

running tips would be appreciated, actually - basic stuff like pacing, breathing correctly, anything which makes it all more effective which a novice might not be aware of. i am so unbelievably shit at pacing myself.

lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:33 (ten years ago) link

Am an amateur myself but "go slower" sounds like it might be good advice. When I first started I was almost sprinting, could barely do 100m let alone 10k. Then I figured out that maybe I should take it down a notch. Think jogging not running.

ledge, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:38 (ten years ago) link

Some friends I run with barely go above walking pace...

ledge, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:39 (ten years ago) link

Key is not stopping: I'm not sure how far you go, but better to go from 30 mins at whatever slowish pace feels comfortable, then 40, then 50 etc...Eventually speed will follow, but until you learn to breathe evenly (ie maintaining a steady pace), it's hard to relax and enjoy it.

I run every other day, normally 3 laps of Prospect Park, which takes 80-90 mins, and is about...11 miles? I used to run the Brooklyn bridge and round seaport, battery, and up the west side highway - there are some good routes around there.

paulhw, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:39 (ten years ago) link

i guess it's better to run further/for a longer time and slower than to push yourself wrt speed but only manage to run for half an hour, then?

lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 16:48 (ten years ago) link


paulhw, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 17:58 (ten years ago) link

stopping is ok if you plan to start up again though--if you break up an hour run into 15-20 min segments walking a couple minutes in between it can be good for your endurance

i want to start going a little faster soon, my "short" run now is 3.5-4 miles but i think i want to add a day per week of intervals or pyramids? suggestions? i run no faster on short runs than on long runs, which is wrong.

HHooHHHooHH-oob (harbl), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:15 (ten years ago) link

A couple things I find helpful when I run

1. Try to be in your head and chest instead of in your legs, if that makes sense. Like focus on your upper body moving forward and not your stride (though you should check your stride from time to time)

2. Keep your torso/shoulders somewhat moving and loose -- this might just be personal because I have a shoulder/back problem that tends to cramp up when I run

Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:27 (ten years ago) link

no 2 makes sense - last week it suddenly hit me that my shoulders were SO TENSE when i was running - consciously trying to relax them seemed to make everything a bit easier

lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:36 (ten years ago) link

Anyone have advice for avoiding shin splints? During the winter I run on treadmills and don't have a problem. But I like to run on the street when it gets warmer, and it's not long before my shins start to hurt. Shoes are obviously the main factor. Last year I bought a new pair of shoes that weren't quite wide enough and they murdered my feet and shins. Now I have a pair that fits right, but I still find that I get some mild pain in my shins after running outside. I stretch for quite a while before I run, although I often run first thing in the morning and I feel like my whole body is a lot stiffer than it would be later in the day. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

lou, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:44 (ten years ago) link

i guess it's better to run further/for a longer time and slower than to push yourself wrt speed but only manage to run for half an hour, then?

haha, i consider half an hour to be pretty good. i usually get bored around then.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:47 (ten years ago) link

what i post about when i post about running

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 March 2009 18:47 (ten years ago) link

Today: 5k in an exhausting 27 mins.

ledge, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 19:00 (ten years ago) link

yeah i'm starting this tomorrow, i've made a couple false starts the last few months but time to be less slothful

velko, Tuesday, 17 March 2009 19:52 (ten years ago) link

Hmm, the splints. I've never stretched, and never had too many problems (sometimes heels though). I also feel less limber in the morning. Main thing, I think, is shoes. It's worth paying more ($150/year for exercise is cheap!) to go to a proper place that will analyze your running style on a treadmill, make the right suggestion (ie avoid going to a shitty chain store). Also, if you're used to treadmill / soft surfaces, the road takes a little while to adjust to - your shins are working slightly differently and complaining cos they're not used to it. So make that move slowly, if possible (a park with a dirt track?). Also, when they hurt, stop. It's no good trying to run through it, which can work with other kinds of running pain.

paulhw, Wednesday, 18 March 2009 00:10 (ten years ago) link

Also, harbls right about stopping if you feel like it - between each 30 min lap of the park, I often stop for a minute or two to drink water, or tighten laces, or just calm down a bit...I meant more that it's better to maintain a steady pace than to run fast for 6 minutes then stop, winded, for a few more, then gallop off again.

paulhw, Wednesday, 18 March 2009 00:12 (ten years ago) link

I get shin splints sometimes, but I can't really find a correlation between what I'm doing and the pain. A friend (Jeff, who started this thread) recommended that I get a gait test done at a one of these places

I've read that if your calves get overly strong compared to your shins, that your shins suffer.

W/r/t words of wisdom, I'll just tell you things I have done (I'm at around 6 miles max and usually 10 mpm). 1. Measure distance and time. Being on a treadmill really helped me with this. Or you can use to measure your distance.

In any case, knowing the distance you run and the time you spent was invaluable for me b/c it helped me to quantify my accomplishments, not to cheat, and to set new goals.

2. I vary my speeds and distances. I read stuff about why doing this is good, and it seems to make sense and it feels good, so I do it. I guess you get to work on both speed and endurance this way.

3. Double espresso. Especially if I'm feeling tired or unmotivated, a shot of caffeine can turn a slogging, annoying jog into a decent run. Also at times when I've been trying to push myself to new goals, this helps. (I read this in a newspaper's health section and I also read something in a Men's Health or somewhere about how a flat Coke is perfect for when you hit a wall on a long run.)

milk plasma (Jesse), Wednesday, 18 March 2009 01:38 (ten years ago) link

it's good because it is a shot of sugar, so

i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Wednesday, 18 March 2009 02:00 (ten years ago) link

^ yeah i've never understood this because sugary stuff when you're exercising is so gross, and causes cramps! whatever works.

anyway i've just gotten up to 6 miles (takes me an hour but oh well!) but i have trouble running during the week so i'm doing ok with long runs but not shorter, faster ones! fail.

HHooHHHooHH-oob (harbl), Saturday, 21 March 2009 23:43 (ten years ago) link

I read a magazine article posted in a coffee shop about how caffeine before running can be a good thing.

By the way, the reason I do double espresso instead of a coffee or soda is that it's more concentrated, not b/c I think it contains more caffeine. A minor peeve of mine is when people get all het up about espresso keeping you awake for days, etc.

milk plasma (Jesse), Sunday, 22 March 2009 15:58 (ten years ago) link

It's strangely ILX-ish over in that board.

milk plasma (Jesse), Sunday, 22 March 2009 16:13 (ten years ago) link

I forgot I started this thread.

Jesse, let's run today. We'll race.

Jeff, Sunday, 22 March 2009 19:10 (ten years ago) link

I won't run unless I can track it somehow. Currently I use the Garmin Forerunner 305, but I'm jealous of the smaller 405 these days.

Jeff, Sunday, 22 March 2009 19:19 (ten years ago) link

Having said that, I haven't run since 1/4/09 when I ran 2 miles in 19:21. I was so dissapointed in myself I haven't done anything since then. Plus it's been too damn cold.

Jeff, Sunday, 22 March 2009 19:21 (ten years ago) link

I have only really done any serious running on the treadmill and I will not be racing you. I will run w/ you, though not today.

milk plasma (Jesse), Sunday, 22 March 2009 22:54 (ten years ago) link

OK, I ran. 2.35 miles in 22:21. It was pretty miserable. I think I need to go to an ENT before I do that again.

Jeff, Sunday, 22 March 2009 22:55 (ten years ago) link

I want to start running. I'm afraid I'll be one of those guys that gets a heart attack immediately. Oh well. Where to start? There's a gym down the block from me that's only $5 a day. Should I be intimidated by the 'gym people?' Just bought an iPod shuffle. There are lots of nice places to run outdoors here too. Is the 'runner's high' real? Help me get started!

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Monday, 23 March 2009 09:08 (ten years ago) link

i think the best thing is to just make a start. and don't feel bad if you go slow! i agree with that person up there that said just keep going as far as you can, even if it's just a shuffle.

I've heard this site/program is good for starting out:

behind the times (gem), Monday, 23 March 2009 12:44 (ten years ago) link

No need to be intimidated by the gym people - they are just there doing their thing and you don't need to worry about being judged. If you're going to run on a treadmill (which I think is good to do sometimes to get realistic assessments of progress, as discussed above) getting an employee to show you how it works could set your mind at ease. They're pretty straightforward, but still.

Also what gem said - just do what you can to begin and if you keep it up, you will be fine. Following a program would be a great idea.

I don't know about runner's high - can anyone speak to that? I've heard that it's the rush of endorphins you get at some point during a hard run, but I don't know if I've ever experienced it.

milk plasma (Jesse), Monday, 23 March 2009 14:03 (ten years ago) link

i did the couch to 5k--didnt get up to 5k but i was doing 2 miles in around 20-25 minutes when i stopped (which is a HUGE accomplishment for someone like me). i think its helpful for the kind of person (like me) who needs concrete goals, times, distances, etc. in order to feel and measure progress. without it i would end up spending a week just sort of running for half an hour at a time and abandoning it because there was no structure. once you complete the c25k you can just go out there and start doing 3 mile runs or whatever. i should take it up again really.

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 23 March 2009 14:11 (ten years ago) link

i haven't gotten it recently but i did sometimes get runners high when i was in better shape, like when i was 19. i think you would know if you got it though. it feels like you don't have to try and you could keep going forever, not like the struggle it normally feels like. cruisin'

HHooHHHooHH-oob (harbl), Monday, 23 March 2009 14:21 (ten years ago) link

I have gotten that sort of feeling. I just thought it was supposed to be some sort of euphoria. Maybe my standards for euphoria are too ambitious.

milk plasma (Jesse), Monday, 23 March 2009 15:36 (ten years ago) link

lol people who tell u runners high is like ecstasy are people who have never done ecstasy--its more like "being in a good mood"

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 23 March 2009 15:37 (ten years ago) link


HHooHHHooHH-oob (harbl), Monday, 23 March 2009 15:42 (ten years ago) link

i try to do btwn 3-5 miles every other day & basically track totals by month which helps a lot w/ the structure and measuring aspect

johnny crunch, Monday, 23 March 2009 15:47 (ten years ago) link

No runner's high for me. It is miserable every single step.

Jeff, Tuesday, 24 March 2009 02:51 (ten years ago) link

Every winter gets me totally out of the routine and out of shape, but I'm getting started again since the time change, and since the sidewalks haven't been iced over for a couple of weeks. (I know some people get out of bed an hour earlier to go running in the cold just before sunrise,, I run because I *like* it). Right now I'm only running about 3 miles a couple times a week, and I'd like to work up to more regularly running 5 miles again, hopefully approaching 10 in the summer.

I don't think I've experienced runner's high, which I've always thought is because I like to fall into a comfortable groove that I can keep up for a long time, instead of pushing myself so hard I break through some kind of crazy physical barrier...but if it's more "cruising" and less "euphoria", maybe I have!

Maria, Tuesday, 24 March 2009 03:06 (ten years ago) link

If what I've experienced is a runner's high, and if that experience is what others consider euphoria, then I pity those people.

milk plasma (Jesse), Tuesday, 24 March 2009 03:39 (ten years ago) link

I ran 2 miles today in 18 minutes, which is Very Good.

milk plasma (Jesse), Tuesday, 24 March 2009 03:53 (ten years ago) link

i dunno it's kind of like you feel a switch go off, i really think you would know

(lbrah) (harbl), Tuesday, 24 March 2009 11:36 (ten years ago) link

also do you guys run in the morning? i can't do it, i always feel so stiff and tired, and if i plan to wake up earlier to run i just end up going back to bed. i'd like to do it in the morning just to get it done but i'm wimpy.

(lbrah) (harbl), Tuesday, 24 March 2009 11:37 (ten years ago) link

I don't even go back to bed, I can't get out of it in the first place. I ran in the morning when I first started, but I didn't need to be at work very early then, so it was easier.

Maria, Tuesday, 24 March 2009 11:57 (ten years ago) link

I keep thinking I should start running. Seems like it might come naturally to me.

calstars, Sunday, 20 October 2019 23:51 (four months ago) link


Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 21 October 2019 01:03 (three months ago) link

i just signed up for a race next week. i did a 5k last year, so now, i'm doing a 10k. I usually do a ~monthly 6-8 miler, so I'm confident I'll make it.

i got a new pair of shoes, i replaced the beloved brooks ghosts with the cadillac ride with a pair of launch 6. def firmer underfoot, though the uppers are softer, almost baglike. they are slightly too broad in the forefoot, just as the ghosts are, but they do tighten up adequately and securely.

i still run like a duck. quack quack.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 21 October 2019 04:33 (three months ago) link

Just bought a new pair of Ghosts as love those.

Also got a pair of Nike Zoom Vaporfly. Tried them out yesterday and took 7 seconds off the record for a Strava segment I've been after for a year and a half. Seriously quick shoes.

groovypanda, Monday, 21 October 2019 11:28 (three months ago) link

do any forerunner ppl know if/how to change the number of display pages on outdoor run mode? Ive done it in garminconnect, synced in 9 different directions, rebooted all devices afaict... i really want a third page.

You should be able to do it here:

groovypanda, Monday, 21 October 2019 11:31 (three months ago) link

ty- so far that's not doing it unfortunately, will keep looking for my error

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 21 October 2019 15:27 (three months ago) link

i went back into laptop garmin connect, which was already showing properly, re-saved for like the nth time, then went right to my phone mobile garmin connect immediately and re-synced for the nth time and BOOM like magic, i haz 4 pages yay! i'm current!

*10/21/2019 runningshit press release: garmin announces retirement of the 3 y/o forerunner 35 now that it is half its original retail price*

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 21 October 2019 16:50 (three months ago) link

Yeah I like my Garmin watches but the settings and interface have always been kinda wonky... mine hates connecting to my computer. Always eventually works though.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 21 October 2019 16:56 (three months ago) link

the really crisp visibility of the uber-simple screen in any light is worth praise. i dig its less-is-more fields display concept too— 3 lines, labeled when enter the page, there u be.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 21 October 2019 18:48 (three months ago) link

Nothing but respect for these insane runners

greetings from Belt Buckle, Tennessee, where I will be spending the next several days reporting on the Big Dog Backyard Ultra, a race that DOESNT END UNTIL EVERYONE QUITS

the guy who won last year? 283 miles, or from Saturday morning until Tuesday

— Leigh Cowart (@voraciousbrain) October 19, 2019

groovypanda, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 06:59 (three months ago) link

if you really want to destroy your joints without using a hammer...

walking towards the sun since 2007 (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 08:11 (three months ago) link

mark me down as "media" for the closest i would ever get to that as well

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 15:05 (three months ago) link

I was looking at a hall of fame wall for people that were able to eat three 14" inch pancakes in under 90 minutes at this one restaurant and noticed one dude did it five times in two weeks in ~25-35 minutes. I was like wtf but then saw he was an ultramarathoner.

Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 15:17 (three months ago) link

My friends brother who won hard rock discussed me the feasibility of eating sticks of butter in extremis and i was 😳🤮. tbf he is really real about the possibilities and advisable limits of in extremis so

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:13 (three months ago) link

"Much of the energy comes from butter, which is high in fats and taste."

koogs, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:55 (three months ago) link

lol that race owns

lag∞n, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 22:08 (three months ago) link

anyone had either peroneal tendonitis or cuboid syndrome issues? not sure which it is. ive had no acute trauma, shoe was changed tho minimally (firmer footbed), very slight mileage increase, still low miles.

this is the exact pain that i got 10 years ago after running 3 months, had done a trail marathon and was prepping for a road marathon-- so under much more usage/stress. during the road marathon pain got excruciating at mile 12. i limped it out, but it was ridiculous. i then cured it by not walking/runnning 2 days, not running for 6 years, and riding my bike.

10k race tomorrow, because of course it is. my expected survival for tomorrow is go back to the softer ghosts for event, try to tape a cuboid sling, then see a pt sometime asap.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Saturday, 26 October 2019 19:31 (three months ago) link

i used kinetic flex tape to do a cuboid sling first thing in the AM, and everything felt instantly 97+% normal under weight, no aches or twinges at all. there was no pain or progression of bad feels during the event. i actually could not believe it at all, because i typically assume that anything that feels like inflammation is only helped by rest and ibuprofen and the sacrifice of animals. wrongo.

i still need to hit a pt, but what luck. i wanted to go under 8min/mi for the distance, but didn't come too close. it was cold, snowing, and slick in places, and the hills though short were fairly abrupt which advised caution in descents. quite fun.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 04:22 (three months ago) link

glad you were able to race! sounds fun... I've never run in snow or ice really. Rain, all the time. Nothing better than running before a thunderstorm on a hot summer day and getting those cool downdrafts before the rain hits.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 04:32 (three months ago) link

Won my first ever running prize last night in the Severn Bridge 5 mile Night Race. 8th overall but 1st in my age group.

Was a lot tougher than I expected as it was pretty windy on the bridge and very dark in places. Good fun though as everyone had UV face paint and glow sticks - all it was missing was a set by Slipmatt.

groovypanda, Thursday, 7 November 2019 08:16 (three months ago) link

congrats GP! what was the prize?

Wee Bloabby (NickB), Thursday, 7 November 2019 08:24 (three months ago) link

You got to choose from a selection of stuff so some bottles of craft ale

groovypanda, Thursday, 7 November 2019 08:30 (three months ago) link

that is great!

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Thursday, 7 November 2019 15:38 (three months ago) link

glad you were able to race! sounds fun... I've never run in snow or ice really. Rain, all the time. Nothing better than running before a thunderstorm on a hot summer day and getting those cool downdrafts before the rain hits.

― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:32 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh lordy *fans face*

i'm going to moab this weekend and i'm running every day and i'm probably going to cry a lot tbh.

cheese canopy (map), Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:52 (three months ago) link

Did a long circle of the Grand Canyon several years ago and would love to have run in numerous locations around there.

Have a 9 mile trail race on Sunday through mud and hills and woods

groovypanda, Friday, 8 November 2019 08:51 (three months ago) link

i tried a trail that was too hard to run up much, and too dangerous/difficult to read run down much, and i’m sorta but not really a newb. but i didnt realize how hard it would be. Really fun though.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Saturday, 9 November 2019 03:17 (three months ago) link

I ran a 5k a couple weeks back. have been trying to get up to this for about two years, but it took until this summer for me to become really addicted to running. I love it so much now -- yesterday I ran in freezing weather, because it was my run day and I just can't stand to miss it. how long is long enough to work up to a half-marathon? because I really wanna get there.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:20 (three months ago) link

id say go for the 6k first see how you feel

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:23 (three months ago) link

lol i meant 10k (~6miles)

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:24 (three months ago) link

that is my plan - I'm already doing 5-6k every other day now, so I know I can get to the 10.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:40 (three months ago) link

yeah id say just watch yr fatigue level as you ramp up rest when u need to even if it contradiction yr training plan, ramping up quick/getting tired is a classic injury vector, building a base is really whats important/what will make u a good runner long term

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:52 (three months ago) link

Once you're comfortable running 10K try a 15K in training once a week at quite a bit slower pace. That should improve your aerobic ability and get you used to running for much longer period of time.

groovypanda, Sunday, 10 November 2019 07:02 (three months ago) link

getting used to running even an hour at z2 pace is harder for me than riding for 5-6 hours at z2. at a bit past half an hour i start getting bored and frustrated.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Sunday, 10 November 2019 16:00 (three months ago) link

What's "z2"? But yeah, dealing with boredom is an underdiscussed aspect of distance running.

britain's secret sauce (seandalai), Monday, 11 November 2019 09:42 (three months ago) link

Zone 2 heart rate (beats per minute)

So roughly between 60-70% of 220 minus your age.

Most of my long slow runs will see my heart rate in zones 2 & 3

groovypanda, Monday, 11 November 2019 10:05 (three months ago) link

super obvious things here but some tips for avoiding boredom:

- vary your route duh, keep exploring your neighbourhood, take that random left turn for once, see where it goes, all that stuff
- find other peole to run with / join a club. again duh
- i find that podcasts are always better than music for the first half of your run, let your brain be hijacked by other pepople's thoughts, they'll stop your own mind dwelling on how far you have to go etc. then use music to kick yr butt on the way back
- do some random intervals in the back half of your run. bored after 30 minutes? throw in a few 100 metre sprints, if nothing else it'll give your brain a different sort of stress to deal with
- change the time you run at, impossible to get bored if you get up in the dark and watch the sun coming up as you run imo
- running is a really good time to think about writing, even if it's just thinking through emails you need to send or whatever. my mind tends to go in little loops while i'm running, so it's really a good time for polishing phrases etc, and then you spend the rest of your time trying not to forget the perfect thing you've composed in your head
- it's okay to stop and go and have coffee in the middle of your run if your motivation starts tailing off. it took me ages to figure that one out cos it feels so very wrong, but i do it all the time on bike rides so why not on a run? sit down, read the newspaper, let running go fuck itself for 15 minutes. the bonus of this is that it's good practice for those longer races where you're having to deal with trying to get your legs to work again after you leave check points etc
- when you start going on really long runs you always reach a point where your mind actually just gives up on this irksome thinking business entirely and it falls into this more feral, animalistic state - just moving forward, reacting to your environment, searching for water, worrying about your aches and pains, looking for places to take a secret poop - being in the moment as they say. i wish i could find a short cut to that state of mind tbh cos it takes a couple of hours to get there. but don't go thinking that long runs mean even more hours of tedium to deal with

Wee Bloabby (NickB), Monday, 11 November 2019 13:50 (three months ago) link

Re: Z2...

So is the idea that zones are roughly analogous to a per-mile pace? So that a workout plan would be “10 min in Z1, then 10 in Z2, then 5 in Z3, then cool down” instead of “first two miles at a warm-up pace, next two and a higher pace, so on and so on...?”

A friend invited me to partner w him on a long ski race in 5 months and the training will require massive amounts of cardio. Guess I need to learn about these zones and heart rate stuff? I’m clueless.

tobo73, Monday, 11 November 2019 13:53 (three months ago) link

Not really. My Garmin tells me afterwards what zones i was running in but it's easier to go by how you feel. On longer, slower runs you shouldn't feel completely out of breath and the usual advice is that you should be able to have a conversation - if you can't because you're breathing heavily then you're putting too much effort in.

The pace analogy doesn't really work unless you're running indoors on a flat surface - outdoors you'll have wind and terrain to contend with that will affect your pace. I had a run the other week where my easy pace part of the run was faster than parts of my tempo pace section because the tempo run part was into a strong headwind and also uphill.

Basically, everyone's different anyway and what works for one person might not work for you. If you're starting more or less from scratch just getting out running two or three times a week should see you make marked improvements in your cardio fitness.

groovypanda, Monday, 11 November 2019 14:41 (three months ago) link

Got it. I’m not starting from scratch. I have a good foundation of being able to push myself hard over ~10 mile runs recently but I don’t pay much attention to pace and zero attention to heart rate. I now need to get myself up to what I assume is a dramatically higher cardio capacity for a long race (at altitudes around 10-12k ft). I feel like it’s doable but not sure how to plan getting to that point.

tobo73, Monday, 11 November 2019 15:07 (three months ago) link

Great post nick

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 11 November 2019 15:18 (three months ago) link

thx nick and all for advices, very appreciated.

my experience at altitude is that your pace for any perceived level of exertion drops as i climb over 6k. at first slowly. but over tree level (11.5k here) for me, aerobic power/pace really starts to reduce. Of course, on a bike i can have a meter, and see my sustainable wattage is down like 20%. For running or nordic, i just try to guess at pace and stuff- i dont find my hr is that reliable up there?

the big difference going hard up ~actually~ high (not 6-10k, i mean 11k+) ime is that for short hard efforts, which are anaerobic, any matches you have stored _are still there_. i’m not a physio, but i a think this would correspond to w’ for people who look at that kinda stuff.

I’ve never read anyone talk about a aerobic efforts at high alt, but for me the effect is that if you wanna have a short vo2max burst (didnt runners call those fartleks or?) you can do that, but when those matches are gone, you really really come down hard back to your altitude-reduced aerobic limits until you can recover a bit. roadies call this sensation “blowing up” and these moments when above 12k are really really mean.

So my advice above treeline is to be carefuller with bursts- like if you have to call “track” and pass someone, don’t do anything more than you need to get by, restabilize, the work on dropping the person behind you later. so easy to go way into the red without knowing, and you feel fine and super fast during the first 1.5 minutes.

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 11 November 2019 15:56 (three months ago) link

yeah seems like w running at altitude u feel fine then —hit the wall—

lag∞n, Monday, 11 November 2019 15:59 (three months ago) link

i have observed this w friends visiting me where i live at altitude

lag∞n, Monday, 11 November 2019 16:00 (three months ago) link

if i could undo the “actually” emphasis up there i would, it comes across really poorly, sorry.

what i am aiming at there is that all my general “rules” for efforts seem to work ok up to 11-12k, and for me after that, it’s really easy to go a bit overboard on efforts by accident

and i approve this message (Hunt3r), Monday, 11 November 2019 16:03 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

anyone have any experience of or recommendations of calf sleeves?

been out for 8 weeks now with an achilles injury and thinking i might get myself a pair for added protection/peace of mind when i start back

groovypanda, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 11:44 (two weeks ago) link

never used them, they look a bit sweaty tbh

don't know if you've been doing any achilles strengthening, but i absolutely swear by doing that thing where you stand on one leg with your toes on a step and then sort of lower and raise your heel up and down. that has always sorted me out in the past but then i've only suffered mildly with it

ymo sumac (NickB), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 12:57 (two weeks ago) link

i'm pretty much out of the game at the moment too btw, got some recurrent hip/groin thing where i have alternating pain in the IT band and also in the spot where i had an abdominal hernia operation 12 years ago. it's driving me nuts - i can feel fine beforehand, but then a mile or two into a run and there it is again. i don't know if it's hip instability or weak hamstrings or what, but i just want to run properly again one day please :(

ymo sumac (NickB), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 13:02 (two weeks ago) link

yeah, saw a physio and she gave me some exercises to do, one of which are calf raises on a step. will probably keep them up when i'm back running

hope yours sorts itself out. it is a bugger not being able to run but imagine it would be 100 times worse if it was summer

groovypanda, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 15:13 (two weeks ago) link

i've not really stopped running tbh, just struggled every time i've gone out. have had a few weeks off but resting has made absolutely no difference afaict. at the moment i'm putting up with being crap, being in pain, and not really able to commit to any races for the forseeable future

ymo sumac (NickB), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 15:20 (two weeks ago) link

My running is so irregular due to weather, circumstances, and the fact i just don’t like it much. i need a serious psyche rev-up session, or a guilt trip, in order to get inspiration. As my weight has gone up like 7 lbs since quitting bikes, my running pace just keeps slowing, even tho i’m running more.

I’ve been trying to work in rollerski sessions 2x per week plus maybe a day of ski on snow. The rollerski game is so much hellacious precarity that i feel an adrenaline rush just booting up. I’ve got rather good at sharpening my pole ferrules, which is essential and requires diamond files.

Studies suggest 50% of xc power is upper body, which def puts me in the slowest quintile for sure.

in a mellow, balmy way (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 15:43 (two weeks ago) link

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