Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

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also please no onion

Dan S, Wednesday, 25 May 2022 23:58 (one year ago) link

fair enough

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 26 May 2022 00:05 (one year ago) link

it’s alright, everyone get these urges sometimes. like the urge to make wayne lapierre drink a bucket of diarrhea, or the urge to make mitch mcconnell drink a bucket of diarrhea puked up by wayne lapierre. it’s just a normal part of being human to feel this way.

Society for the Preservation of (cat), Thursday, 26 May 2022 00:12 (one year ago) link

The archbishop of San Antonio, Gustavo Garcia-Siller, comforts families outside the Civic Center following a deadly school shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, Tuesday, May 24, 2022. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still massed outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.

He then exchanged fire with a school district security officer, ran inside and fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. All the law enforcement officers were injured, he said.

Hours later, Considine said authorities did not know for sure whether the school officer exchanged gunfire with Ramos. Law enforcement officials have also issued sometimes-contradictory statements about the length of Ramos’ rampage.

Full Coverage: Uvalde school shooting
After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill, a law enforcement official said.

He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

All those killed were in the same classroom, he said.

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said “40 minutes or so” elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer and when the SWAT-like Border Patrol team shot him.

A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

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Carranza felt the officers should have entered the school sooner.

“There were more of them, there was just one of him,” he said.

Uvalde is a largely Latino town of some 16,000 people about 75 miles (120 kilometers) from the Mexican border. Robb Elementary, which has nearly 600 students in second, third and fourth grades, is a single-story brick structure in a mostly residential neighborhood of modest homes.

Before attacking the school, Ramos shot and wounded his grandmother at her home. Neighbors called police when she staggered outside and they saw she had been shot in the face, Considine said.

Ramos had legally bought the rifle and a second one like it last week, just after his birthday, authorities said.

Investigators shed no light on the motive for the attack, which also left at least 17 people wounded. Abbott said Ramos, a resident of the small town about 85 miles (135 kilometers) west of San Antonio, had no known criminal or mental health history.

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“Evil swept across Uvalde yesterday,” Abbott said.

About a half-hour before the mass shooting, Ramos sent the first of three online messages, Abbott said. Ramos wrote that he was going to shoot his grandmother, then that he had shot the woman. In the last note, sent about 15 minutes before he reached Robb Elementary, he said he was going to shoot up an elementary school, according to Abbott. Investigators said Ramos did not specify which school.

Ramos sent the private, one-to-one text messages via Facebook, and they were “discovered after the terrible tragedy,” company spokesman Andy Stone said. He said Facebook is cooperating with investigators.

Grief engulfed Uvalde as details emerged of the latest mass killing to rock the U.S.

The dead included Eliahna Garcia, an outgoing 10-year-old who loved to sing, dance and play basketball; a fellow fourth-grader, Xavier Javier Lopez, who had been eagerly awaiting a summer of swimming; and a teacher, Eva Mireles, with 17 years’ experience whose husband is an officer with the school district’s police department.

“You can just tell by their angelic smiles that they were loved,” Uvalde Schools Superintendent Hal Harrell said, fighting back tears as he recalled the children and teachers killed.

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Amid calls around the U.S. for tighter restrictions on firearms, the Republican governor repeatedly talked about mental health struggles among Texas young people and argued that tougher gun laws in Chicago, New York and California are ineffective.

Democrat Beto O’Rourke, who is running against Abbott for governor, interrupted Wednesday’s news conference, calling the tragedy “predictable.” Pointing his finger at Abbott, he said: “This is on you until you choose to do something different. This will continue to happen.” O’Rourke was escorted out as some in the room yelled at him. Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin yelled that O’Rourke was a “sick son of a bitch.”

Texas has some of the most gun-friendly laws in the nation and has been the site of some of the deadliest shootings in the U.S. over the past five years.

“I just don’t know how people can sell that type of a gun to a kid 18 years old,” Siria Arizmendi, the aunt of victim Eliahna Garcia, said angrily through tears. “What is he going to use it for but for that purpose?”

The attack was the deadliest school shooting in the U.S. since a gunman killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, in December 2012.

The Uvalde tragedy was the latest in a seemingly unending wave of mass shootings across the U.S. in recent years. Just 10 days earlier, 10 Black people were shot to death in a racist attack at a Buffalo, New York, supermarket.

President Joe Biden said Wednesday that “the Second Amendment is not absolute” as he called for new limitations on guns in the wake of the massacre.

But the prospects for reform of the nation’s gun regulations appeared dim. Repeated attempts over the years to expand background checks and enact other curbs have run into Republican opposition in Congress.

The shooting came days before the National Rifle Association annual convention was set to begin in Houston, with the Texas governor and both of the state’s Republican U.S. senators scheduled to speak.

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Investigators do not yet know why Ramos targeted the school, said McCraw of the Department of Public Safety.

“We don’t see a motive or catalyst right now,” he said.

Officers found one of the rifles in Ramos’ truck, the other in the school, according to the briefing given to lawmakers. Ramos was wearing a tactical vest, but it had no hardened body-armor plates inside, lawmakers were told. He also dropped a backpack containing several magazines full of ammunition near the school entrance.

Dillon Silva, whose nephew was in a classroom, said students were watching the Disney movie “Moana” when they heard several loud pops and a bullet shattered a window. Moments later, their teacher saw the attacker stride past the door.

“Oh, my God, he has a gun!” the teacher shouted twice, according to Silva. “The teacher didn’t even have time to lock the door,” he said.

Three children and an adult remained at a San Antonio hospital, where two of them — a 66-year-old woman and 10-year-old girl — were listed in serious condition.

The close-knit community, built around a shaded central square, includes many families who have lived there for generations. It sits amid fields of cabbage, onions, carrots and other vegetables.

Residents are knitted together by family and friendship, said Joe Ruiz, a pastor born and raised in Uvalde with children and grandchildren there.

“Everybody knows everybody or is connected to everybody,” said Ruiz.

His cousin’s wife, he said, was one of the teachers killed in the attack.

Gymnopédie Pablo (Neanderthal), Thursday, 26 May 2022 02:31 (one year ago) link

if only we didn't defund the police

frogbs, Thursday, 26 May 2022 02:57 (one year ago) link

the coolest thing the police ever did was invent their own flag thats just a desecrated version of the american flag

— wint (@dril) February 13, 2020

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 26 May 2022 03:07 (one year ago) link

I know every shooting is an unspeakable tragedy and every subsequent inaction is infuriating but it just seems so much more so now. it's hard to imagine a greater evil than shooting up an elementary school. if you filmed a movie or TV show that included a scene where this happened everyone would call you a sick fuck and you'd never work again. if we won't do a single thing to prevent it from happening again then this country is a fucking failure. anyway, good night everyone

frogbs, Thursday, 26 May 2022 04:05 (one year ago) link

I found the Facebook page of the Uvalde Police Department. It is very interesting and does not conjure a feeling of safety or wellness. https://t.co/1eVcWvTWYM pic.twitter.com/O9wicvyG3s

— Dr. Thrasher (@thrasherxy) May 26, 2022

deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Thursday, 26 May 2022 04:39 (one year ago) link

wow Dr Thrasher rules! hard follow!

"Cops are here to enforce mass delusion that anything works"

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 26 May 2022 08:29 (one year ago) link

Neanderthal, can you share the link to that story?

(And as hard as it was to read, thank you for the cut/paste.)

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 26 May 2022 09:14 (one year ago) link

wow Dr Thrasher rules! hard follow!

"Cops are here to enforce mass delusion that anything works"

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 26 May 2022 bookmarkflaglink

And to suppress one of the few things the majority can do to change things, which is wide scale protest and disruption.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 26 May 2022 11:48 (one year ago) link

Eventually, those officers “were responsible” for containing the gunman in a classroom, McCraw said. (Spokespersons for the Texas Department of Public Safety had repeatedly told news outlets earlier that the suspect barricaded himself into the classroom and immediately started shooting.)

Biggest wtf.

jmm, Thursday, 26 May 2022 12:58 (one year ago) link

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told reporters that 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer to when the tactical team shot him, though a department spokesman said later that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

“The bottom line is law enforcement was there,” McCraw said. “They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom.”

Heckuva job, Brownie

perhaps this will inspire bipartisan support for increasing the police budget another 25%

frogbs, Thursday, 26 May 2022 14:02 (one year ago) link

Also, according to that Vice timeline, it took 23 minutes from the first 911 calls to the school going on lockdown?

jmm, Thursday, 26 May 2022 14:19 (one year ago) link

I know these things can be chaotic, but wtf. My son's school was on lockdown around dismissal time because of a police manhunt and we didn't receive the notifications telling us not to come pick up our kids until about an hour after the lockdown was over.

About the only good thing we can say: school's out in the next week or so.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 May 2022 14:34 (one year ago) link

A long Twitter thread from an ex-EMT about how badges are for hiding behind.

🧵I can't fucking sleep tonight. Kept thinking about one of my last calls as an EMT after reading about cops not willingly putting themselves in harm's way. August 2001. I pulled my bus up just outside the PD cordon at the site of a DV call. 1/

— Dan Kim (김명준) (@danielmkim) May 26, 2022

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 26 May 2022 14:40 (one year ago) link

“The reality is, as horrible as what happened, it could have been worse,” Abbott said. “The reason it was not worse is because law enforcement officials did what they do: They showed amazing courage by running toward gun fire for the singular purpose of trying to save lives.”

Imagine what would have happened if those cops weren't there!

I've seen a few references to the idea that there have been court decisions establishing that police are under *zero* obligation to interfere in ongoing crimes—their duty is exclusively to investigate crimes after the fact, not to prevent crime or protect/come to the aid of victims—but none of these refs have been very official. Does anyone here know if this is true?

If so, I'm surprised I didn't hear more about that during the abolition debates in 2020, though it's certainly possible I did and forgot

rob, Thursday, 26 May 2022 14:58 (one year ago) link

Thanks Neanderthal!

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:00 (one year ago) link

yeah who would've prevented the parents from trying to save their kids

frogbs, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:00 (one year ago) link

That Dan Kim post actually made me mad all over again

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:04 (one year ago) link

Latest rumor is the cops went in to get their own kids before helping take down shooter

― Gymnopédie Pablo (Neanderthal), Wednesday, May 25, 2022 7:32 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

pls no rumors, pls

― Society for the Preservation of (cat), Wednesday, May 25, 2022 7:44 PM (yesterday)

no details, but official confirmation at 1:10 in this interview:

“1st acknowledge the brave men and women of law enforcement,” not condolences to the family first. Also, the cops engaged the shooter before he entered the school, and they are still alive? Finally, cops went in and pulled their own kids out during the active shooter threat. WTF? pic.twitter.com/4okN01jGjq

— Gale Farce (@_Sir_Perfluous) May 25, 2022

rob, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:09 (one year ago) link


I've seen a few references to the idea that there have been court decisions establishing that police are under *zero* obligation to interfere in ongoing crimes—their duty is exclusively to investigate crimes after the fact, not to prevent crime or protect/come to the aid of victims—but none of these refs have been very official. Does anyone here know if this is true?

If so, I'm surprised I didn't hear more about that during the abolition debates in 2020, though it's certainly possible I did and forgot

― rob, Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:58 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-ne-douglas-survivor-lawsuit-federal-judge-20181217-story.html

peace, man, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:13 (one year ago) link

i understand the criticism and it makes sense in a vacuum, but this is going to lead to more funding for training of cops in schools

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:14 (one year ago) link

because, as many have expressed, what else can we do? literally nothing happens. all they can do is half-heartedly throw money at the problem, and you know that the cops are going to swoop up all of that

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:15 (one year ago) link

thanks peace, man

I bumped the abolish thread in case people don't want to talk about this here, but @Karl, since this is apparently an established legal principle, I'm not sure I understand your response?

rob, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:19 (one year ago) link

I cover a lot of public meetings where police funding gets discussed, and one of the cliché mantras is that "They run toward danger while everyone else is running away from danger." I guess by "run toward" they mean, "establish a perimeter at a safe distance and wait for backup."

I've seen a few references to the idea that there have been court decisions establishing that police are under *zero* obligation to interfere in ongoing crimes—their duty is exclusively to investigate crimes after the fact, not to prevent crime or protect/come to the aid of victims—but none of these refs have been very official. Does anyone here know if this is true?

I've used the phrase "janitors with guns" before.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:23 (one year ago) link

I bumped the abolish thread in case people don't want to talk about this here, but @Karl, since this is apparently an established legal principle, I'm not sure I understand your response?

hi rob, sorry i should have thrown an xp on there. i wasn't directly referring to your post (or peace, man's) about the obligation (legal) of police to do something.

i just meant, in general, as with most mass shootings, there is a sense of befuddlement afterward about what can be done to prevent them again, as the entire world points to the number of guns that we have in this country, and the other side does the "thoughts/prayers/we need more good people with guns/we need to limit the number of entry points to all buildings to 1/we are suddenly concerned with mental health" routine.

in most cases, lawmakers do absolutely nothing. in this case, since the cops were useless, it may lead to more funding more cops in the future in an effort to make them less useless.

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:30 (one year ago) link

(sorry for confusion on that - rereading it, i can see that it looks like i was replying directly to you! i was more just shouting at the clouds

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:32 (one year ago) link

fuck the brave* men and women of law enforcement

dyl, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:34 (one year ago) link

got it, Karl. and yeah I don't even know why I care at this point. for some reason I guess I get some tiny pathetic crumb of intellectual comfort from knowing the pro-cops side is lying even more than I previously knew they were lying

rob, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:40 (one year ago) link

I guess when I'm proselytizing about "never call the cops no matter what" I can now add this to my pitch. I recently made myself look slightly insane to my parents when I freaked out after they told me it's their HOA's official policy to call the police if any resident sees anyone going door to door for any reason

rob, Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:43 (one year ago) link

I've mentioned before, but we have an absolutely obnoxious email list for our neighborhood that is filled with bootlicking boomers with way too much time on their hands and their response to literally fucking anything is to call the cops. Unfamiliar car parked legally? Call the cops. Squirrel in the back yard? Call the cops. Canvassing in the neighborhood? Call the cops. Myself and a few other neighbors that I genuinely like will push back on this mindset, frequently, responding with links to not cop associated resources when appropriate, but it's like trying to stop the rain from falling. Calling the cops is just so fucking ingrained in the brains of so many people.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 26 May 2022 15:50 (one year ago) link

it's true that cops don't have to help you if you're in danger.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html

bamcquern, Thursday, 26 May 2022 16:09 (one year ago) link

I’m friends with a former police officer (we knew each other long before she took on that job), and rest assured, they hate these nuisance calls.

Her favorite (not really favorite) one was someone calling the police for help with a plumbing problem.

Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 26 May 2022 16:13 (one year ago) link

i ain't passed the bar
but i know a little bit
and legally you guys
don't have to do shit

Gymnopédie Pablo (Neanderthal), Thursday, 26 May 2022 16:15 (one year ago) link

there's a good 5-4 podcast on at least one of the cases mentioned in the story that bamcquern just linked: https://www.fivefourpod.com/episodes/castle-rock-v-gonzalez/

(i also just linked this on the abolish the police thread)

mark s, Thursday, 26 May 2022 16:29 (one year ago) link

American Pie singer Don McLean has pulled out of this weekend's National Rifle Association annual meeting in Texas, following Tuesday's tragic shooting at a school in the state.

"I have decided it would be disrespectful and hurtful for me to perform," McLean said in a statement...

why the hell were you gonna play it anyway?

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:50 (one year ago) link

Every time I see the thread title I imagine Al Pacino's Ricky Roma muttering, "Another fucking spree shooting. Great. Another waste. of. time."

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:52 (one year ago) link

Fuuuuuck.

Joe Garcia, the husband of Irma Garcia, one of two teachers shot and killed in Uvalde, TX on Tuesday, has reportedly suffered a fatal heart attack. Joe and Irma were high school sweethearts and married 24 years. They leave behind four children. pic.twitter.com/Rlk0M2B8nR

— Ernie Zuniga (@Ernie_Zuniga) May 26, 2022

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:53 (one year ago) link

Because prior to Tuesday the NRA had an unblemished reputation for... oh wait...

Seriously, I'm guessing he was getting a ton of cyber vitriol yesterday. And rightly so.

xxp

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:53 (one year ago) link

fucking hell

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:58 (one year ago) link

he should still play, being subjected to a Don McLean concert is the least of the many punishments those goblins deserve

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:59 (one year ago) link

truly a broken heart... jesus christ

Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:59 (one year ago) link


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