Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070429/ts_nm/shootings_mall_dc_2

Oilyrags, Monday, 30 April 2007 00:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

This is awful.

Witness Queea Miller said the shootings took place in the parking lot.

"I was in my truck and the gunman was two cars over from me," she told CNN. She said she saw the gunman shoot in the direction of a Starbuck's coffee shop. "Then after he stopped, he re-loaded and started shooting again."

She said that, during the shootings, she and her 18-year-old daughter "lay our seats all the way back and I got to praying. You could hear the shots going off again."

Nathan, Monday, 30 April 2007 00:17 (twelve years ago) Permalink

boooooringgggggggggggg

danbunny, Monday, 30 April 2007 00:37 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Jesus.

kingfish, Monday, 30 April 2007 00:39 (twelve years ago) Permalink

gun debate pls.

S-, Monday, 30 April 2007 04:29 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Only four dead? Amateur.

StanM, Monday, 30 April 2007 10:38 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Numbers seem to be important, judging by the way everyone on TV was going on and on about how the last one was The Biggest ever (and CNN patting themselves on the back every 15 minutes that "300,000 - no, 600,000 - no, 900,000 people have seen our amateur cell phone video! yay us!")

StanM, Monday, 30 April 2007 10:41 (twelve years ago) Permalink

how many sprees were shot in this case? the article doesn't say.

Frogman Henry, Monday, 30 April 2007 10:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

regardless, dear god. please to help people see stupidy concerning ways so this can happen less.

Frogman Henry, Monday, 30 April 2007 10:58 (twelve years ago) Permalink

thats what you get for drinking at starbucks, obviously someone hired by a competitor

klankton, Monday, 30 April 2007 15:22 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I think school shootings have a more readily compelling narrative built into them that media types can package, since its innocent kids and teenagers that are targeted in that case.

kingfish, Monday, 30 April 2007 15:26 (twelve years ago) Permalink

boooooringgggggggggggg

Interestingly, this is not a big story on any of the news sites I'm seeing. "Only four? Pffft. I could shoot that many people in my sleep."

kenan, Monday, 30 April 2007 15:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Just saw this on Belgian TV news. "Ironically, this happened in a mall called Target"

StanM, Monday, 30 April 2007 22:59 (twelve years ago) Permalink

tuomasphonebooth.jpg

strgn, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:02 (twelve years ago) Permalink

is that where a 13-year-old can buy a rifle without a background check?

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:07 (twelve years ago) Permalink

what, in a Finnish phone boot?

StanM, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

h

StanM, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

six months pass...

Now the Finns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm

:/

Alba, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 12:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

global epidemic spreads unchecked using news media as vector

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 15:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

High school shooting in Finland.

Zeno, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 15:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink

three months pass...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7246003.stm

DG, Thursday, 14 February 2008 23:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i mean come on this shit is old now

DG, Thursday, 14 February 2008 23:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

ffs not again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7936817.stm

the innermost wee guy (onimo), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

*placeholder for insensitive comment*

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

I can't get the story to load. Probably for the better. (Sigh)

╓abies, Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

this one too, alabama

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/10/shooting.alabama/

football consultant, oakland raiders (daria-g), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

In summary: At least ten people are believed to have been killed in a shooting spree at a German school. Shooter believed to be a former pupil (oh wait that bit has now been removed). Shooter thought to be in custody.

xpost

the innermost wee guy (onimo), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

10 dead at both shootings on the same day wtf.

the innermost wee guy (onimo), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 11:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

15 dead in germany now.
wasnt someone shot at a church in the USA over the weekend too?

Pfunkboy in blood drenched rabbit suit jamming in the woods (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 13:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

wait a minute, meant to indicate it's a full moon atm.

Jarlrmai, Wednesday, 11 March 2009 14:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

wasnt someone shot at a church in the USA over the weekend too?

― Pfunkboy in blood drenched rabbit suit jamming in the woods (Herman G. Neuname)

yep

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting

Burt_ in the disco! Hongro blessed DJ! (jjjusten), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 15:51 (ten years ago) Permalink

Also, the economy. Not meant to be flip, btw, but isn't there usually an upswing in this type of crap when the economy tanks? I seem to remember a bunch of workplace shooting lined up with the 90s recession.

legendary North American forest ape (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 15:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

i don't think 17-year old Rammstein fans are motivated by the mortgage bubble bursting, jon

Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 11 March 2009 15:56 (ten years ago) Permalink

17-year old Rammstein fans

classy

bacon = bad for the face + magic for the moobs (Mackro Mackro), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 15:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

It was a general comment, hadn't really delved in the details of any of the stories. I was just wondering about how trends like this tie in with the global economy turning to shit.

legendary North American forest ape (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 15:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

There was that one dude who killed his wife and kids and self because he couldn't afford to take care of them all with two jobs and it was mega-sad.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 11 March 2009 16:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

The idea that a man's worth is in his productivity/success and that if HE can't be "successful" then everyone who was his responsibility must cease to exist, is just..........beyond. I can hardly form sentences when I think about this.

How can there be male ladybugs? (Laurel), Wednesday, 11 March 2009 16:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/nursing_home_shooting

A NURSING HOME. What do you have to do to be even worse than your average spree shooter? Murder a bunch of helpless fogeys, apparently.

Zero Transfats Waller (Oilyrags), Sunday, 29 March 2009 22:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm sure this has been said before, but It's kind of disheartening how these mass murders have become an accepted fact of life. This was the 4th story on NPR's hourly news report today. Yeah, there is a lot of stuff going on in the world and maybe this is the forth most important story of the day, but holy shit we've become accustomed to this kind of violence. It barely registers anymore.

Super Cub, Monday, 30 March 2009 02:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

There was also a story today about some 17 year old guy who has stabbed one sister and then cut the other (5 years old!) one's head off, in front of a 3rd sister... he was still hacking at the 5 year olds head when the cops got there.

Just... what.

one art, please (Trayce), Monday, 30 March 2009 02:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

Perhaps, but then again I believe these things have always happened all the time, everywhere, they're just far more publicized now due to 24-hour-news cycles. It's still a sad thing, but people "randomly going nuts" and doing these horrible things is inevitable in every society.

Nhex, Monday, 30 March 2009 02:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

but holy shit we've become accustomed to this kind of violence. It barely registers anymore.

― Super Cub, Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 PM

ya some people even think its great (see thread title)

eman, Monday, 30 March 2009 02:47 (ten years ago) Permalink

It's still a sad thing, but people "randomly going nuts" and doing these horrible things is inevitable in every society.

Actually, I think there have been societies where murder is
virtually non-existent. Usually these sort of societies have had a very strong social cohesion and a strict set of shared moralities though, with little room for nonconformism. I would assume there's a lot of variation between different countries of the world in the frequency of murder sprees though. It's inevitable in any society that people will go nuts, but the choices of what you do when you go nuts seem to be at least partially influenced by your surrounding culture. And in most Western societies a shooting spree seems to have become one of the "viable" alternatives for action, sadly. In the first school shooting spree in Finland, for example, it was later found out that the killer had some strong fascist/social Darwinist ideas and that he idolized the Columbine shooters.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 March 2009 06:56 (ten years ago) Permalink

Actually, I think there have been societies where murder is virtually non-existent

wanna come up with some examples, cause I don't buy this at all / have never heard of such societies outside of the lyrics to 'cortez the killer'. "strong social cohesion" isn't gonna overpower certain mental/psychological disorders that some people are simply born with.

iatee, Monday, 30 March 2009 07:13 (ten years ago) Permalink


(sorry)

abanana, Monday, 30 March 2009 07:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

wanna come up with some examples, cause I don't buy this at all / have never heard of such societies outside of the lyrics to 'cortez the killer'. "strong social cohesion" isn't gonna overpower certain mental/psychological disorders that some people are simply born with.

I remember reading in some sociology textbook that certain Buddhist communities in Asia have had virtually no violent crime at all, but I can't find any information on that online right now. I probably shoudln't have used the word "society", since what I was talking about was small, geographically limited communities. Anyway, I don't really think there are any psychological disorders that people are born with, certainly not ones that automatically lead to a murder spree. Or can you name any?

Tuomas, Monday, 30 March 2009 08:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

There was also a story today about some 17 year old guy who has stabbed one sister and then cut the other (5 years old!) one's head off, in front of a 3rd sister... he was still hacking at the 5 year olds head when the cops got there.

Just... what.

― one art, please (Trayce), Monday, 30 March 2009 03:46 (8 hours ago) Bookmark

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090330/twl-man-murders-his-sisters-at-birthday-3fd0ae9.html

Zayatte Mondatta (country matters), Monday, 30 March 2009 11:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

The policeman broke into the house and witnessed Revelus decapitating five-year-old Bianca, whose birthday cake was on the kitchen table.

Zayatte Mondatta (country matters), Monday, 30 March 2009 11:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

Thanks for highlighting that.

Say what you like Professor Words (Ned Trifle II), Monday, 30 March 2009 12:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

People need to stop with this ‘Anning only got 19 votes’ thing. That ginger fascist fuck and her mates got 250,000 first preference votes in queenland alone and well over 400,000 votes including preferences. Thats’s that many nazis and fellow travellers in Queensland alone, That’s a massive problem and this environment of closet fascism and acceptable racism is all to pervasive in Australia and the one that the shooter grew up in.

100s of thousands of people are willing to tick a box for rascists, anti-immigrant and out and out fascist candidates, many even members of the major parties (even labor has its legitimate concerners) and this is a major problem.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 16 March 2019 20:48 (two months ago) Permalink

Agree. The "only 19 votes" thing is a misunderstanding of how the voting system works for the senate. You don't have to vote for individual candidates, you can just vote for a party list. And hundreds of thousands voted for the list on which Anning's name figured.

Zelda Zonk, Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:02 (two months ago) Permalink

I did write four paragraphs about her, and the poison that coverage of her has normalised and spread. I'm noting that Anning keeps going to white power rallies in other states on taxpayers' $, not even the one where he sort of got some votes.

The parallels between her being kicked out of the party in 1996 for being too much of a racist nutbag but staying on their ballot, and Anning getting accidentally appointed in 2017 from being on her 2016 ballot, but declining to enter with her party (and then joining and getting booted from the Cut Snake party for being too much of a racist nutbag) are worth observing, I think.

(As is the fact that despite the horrendous fact of her getting herself as a full-termer and three half-term senators in on the Vague Racist Waffle vote from the double dissolution, she managed to lose FOUR of those three within two years, the double-up being within her own state. A lot of low-information voters and frothing racist arseholes alike are willing to number a box, but the swivel-eyed dickheads they're electing don't even have the competence to keep talking to each other, let alone to think about how to organise fascism.)

steven, soda jerk (sic), Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:23 (two months ago) Permalink

multiple people reported wounded in active shooting incident on University Of Michigan campus

https://twitter.com/michigandaily

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:31 (two months ago) Permalink

retracted by source, see Twitter feed above

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 22:00 (two months ago) Permalink

All Nazis and Nazi-adjacents should have their jaws broken on an hourly basis.

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Saturday, 16 March 2019 23:42 (two months ago) Permalink

I don't even mean that hyperbolically

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Saturday, 16 March 2019 23:43 (two months ago) Permalink

love how absolutely no people are trying to help the shitcunt

mh, Sunday, 17 March 2019 04:40 (two months ago) Permalink

btw, Youtube's search/sort by upload date/search recent video isn't working because they're trying to think of a way to stop this kind of video going viral (even though it was on Facebook Live)

https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/2494861?hl=en

StanM, Sunday, 17 March 2019 08:31 (two months ago) Permalink

also, this: https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/truth-behind-accused-gunmans-hand-symbol-in-court/news-story/b6654e20835dd6200117a69516ceed7f

Wrong. Look up The circle game, below the waist. it's a meme thing, he's won the game/made you look etc.

StanM, Sunday, 17 March 2019 17:52 (two months ago) Permalink

You are arguing against the article that says it’s a trolling meme by saying no, it’s actually a trolling meme? Well trolled.

steven, soda jerk (sic), Sunday, 17 March 2019 18:05 (two months ago) Permalink

oh- one of the local news sites here in belgium only mentions the white power bit

StanM, Sunday, 17 March 2019 18:10 (two months ago) Permalink

Man opens fire on tram in Utrecht

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47611811

stet, Monday, 18 March 2019 10:36 (two months ago) Permalink

what's going on there? sounds like chaos

kolarov spring (NickB), Monday, 18 March 2019 12:43 (two months ago) Permalink

It's surprisingly unchaotic tbf. A man shot several people in a tram, with one unconfirmed dead. The suspect remains at large but has been identified.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 18 March 2019 13:50 (two months ago) Permalink

Three deaths, nine injured.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 18 March 2019 14:01 (two months ago) Permalink

its something of a step forward to define as terrorism and not lone wolf activity, but I wonder if we would better calling it White Nationalist terrorism or White Supremacist terrorism rather than 'Far Right' terrorism (in light of "well actually the nazi's were far left' takes).

anvil, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:46 (two months ago) Permalink

I take your point, but it risks downplaying the right's responsibility.

pomenitul, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:50 (two months ago) Permalink

Donb't think Anvil wrote this in response to the Utrecht shooting (?), but anyway: suspect has been apprehended, motive seems as of yet unclear but more and more seems to be a 'personal' matter (the shooter aimed at his ex-gf, supposedly). They're not ruling out "terrorism", but it's increasingly looking like that is not the case.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 18 March 2019 18:21 (two months ago) Permalink

ty

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Monday, 18 March 2019 18:28 (two months ago) Permalink

It’s never a bad time to point out that VAWG is a marker of potential terrorists.

suzy, Monday, 18 March 2019 18:29 (two months ago) Permalink

LBI, yes sorry was not in response to Utrecht

I'd just been thinking about this categorization of white nationalist terror as far right, and whether its too abstract and less descriptive, leading to false equivalency ('far right violence, far left violence, what even is right wing anyay' obfuscation).

I also don't really know, to what level a large section of people even know what left and right even is. I went for work drinks recently, and someone shocked me by saying they were embarrassed to admit they didn't know what left and right wing is. This wasn't a stupid person by any means either, she just lacked the terminology. I think we can really underestimate peoples lack of education, and how abstract seemingly obvious terminology can be to many people. Terms like left and right were meaningless to this person, even though she instinctively understood. How easily labels can be used and misused if public doesnt necessarily grasp - which is the game the 'actually the nazis were left wing' people are playing. the rights ability to play around with this stuff was always something they were unable to do, until recently, theyve got a lot better at this, and fast

anvil, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 05:35 (two months ago) Permalink

i suspect that the farther we get from WWII and the cold war (that is, the farther individuals get from appreciating those reference points reflexively) the less they might be able to clearly grasp the left/right distinction as one of ideology and not just a series of identity markers.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 06:25 (two months ago) Permalink

On first hearing it seemed weird she didn't know the distinction (and she thought so too and was embarrassed), but my own perception of it is actually resting on answers to certain questions and the questions are changing. When I think of 'a conservative' in 2019, thats a different person to who I might of thought as 'a conservative' in 2013 (I guess I would think of conservatives today closer to the conservatives of the 1700s, and in 2013 I'd have thought of a conservative as closer to a whig - wrong thread to get into that, but I don't know if there's shared conceptions of what left and right mean - and framing white terrorism as far right might not work if the term 'far right' is being divested of meaning, or there is less of a sense of what that actually is)

anvil, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 09:02 (two months ago) Permalink

i tend to think that they've outlived and out-extremed the label "conservative" and i make a habit of just subbing in the word "fascist" when i'm inclined to use the word "conservative" (at least when i'm referring to the contemporary GOP and their fellow travelers)

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 18:08 (two months ago) Permalink

Not a spree shooting but...

just a bunch of sheriffs shooting teachers with airsoft guns as a "training drill":

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/21/active-shooter-training-for-schools-teachers-shot-with-plastic-pellets/3231103002/

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 21 March 2019 21:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Fucking hell.

Simon H., Sunday, 24 March 2019 16:53 (one month ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

You'd think all those "good guys with guns" just a few steps away would have stopped the "bad guy with a gun", just like the NRA keeps promising us will happen any day now.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 02:59 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

we've been "lucky" lately with two mass shootings and one possible attack stopped. the one in San Diego and the other in North Carolina would have been a lot worse if it wasn't for a jammed gun and a couple of quick-thinking people. The one in Long Beach and/or Santa Monica, who knows what would have occurred.

omar little, Wednesday, 1 May 2019 20:55 (two weeks ago) Permalink

This is going to come off as terrible but I'm not even sure which shootings you're referring to... Is this the numbing dread of violence/murder fatigue?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 2 May 2019 01:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yes?

gbx, Thursday, 2 May 2019 02:13 (two weeks ago) Permalink

tough to keep up with shootings in american media -- if it didn't kill half a dozen or wasn't in a house of worship, it's back-page stuff

it really requires an international news source to point out how fucking insane it all is

mookieproof, Thursday, 2 May 2019 02:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

There’s been a school shooting at a middle school thats a mile and a half from my daughter’s middle school, and I’m sitting in a line of traffic waiting to pick up my kid, because that’s what all the texts are ordering me to do. This is America.

To be clear, it was not at her school, and she texted me herself, so I know she’s fine. But the guns gotta go I’m up for taking them away by any means.

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 21:49 (one week ago) Permalink

it just takes leadership. these nuts respect strength. it's like smoking in restaurants and leaving dog shit on the sidewalk. it's just selfish destructive behaviour that no one will miss. you punish the shit out of it and everyone wonders how it was ever otherwise.

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 7 May 2019 21:59 (one week ago) Permalink

My other kid is friends with an 8th grader at that STEM and my kid txted him during this to check on him. that kid called my son back from the scene and advised him glass was everywhere etc wtf. everyone here is !!!

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 22:08 (one week ago) Permalink

god that's terrible!

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 7 May 2019 22:11 (one week ago) Permalink

Man. My older daughter just told me about this, and at this point I'm not sure I know what to tell her.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 22:59 (one week ago) Permalink

Damn. Good luck to you and your daughter.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 7 May 2019 23:13 (one week ago) Permalink

thx- it’s weird i still know nothing beyond “my kids have contacts/friends,” i’ve not turned on the news.

the first i even heard of it was from a western slope buddy who called to ask if we were ok, and almost immed began the deluge of “perimeter secure transportation” advisory txts and emails.

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 23:42 (one week ago) Permalink

so the shooter(s) this time are misfits; seems like the first time people I'd otherwise stan for (car spraypainted with "fuck society", dyed hair, victims of bullying, etc) were perpetrators in quite some time.

akm, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 17:59 (one week ago) Permalink

i turned on the news right after my prev post it pissed me off and depressed me so much- i almost posted but i couldnt, its too hard. i know all the places they were shooting vids from. my kids say they are scared its just all too much. A close friend whose even MUCH nearer the site than i did the FB “let’s get help for sick ppl” shit with NOT ONE MENTION OF GUNS ISSUE and i nearly did a heaping shitpost on her feed. on my good friend who’s very smart and fully aware- so i dont know why she chose that disgusting pose but whatever. NB yes but this is not primarily a mental health issue imo.

fuck.

spouse is talking about moving, we’ve seen plenty.

Hunt3r, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 18:11 (one week ago) Permalink

i didn't realize that columbine, aurora, and yesterday's location were all so close together.

that is heartbreaking and awful

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 18:14 (one week ago) Permalink

partner treated aurora victims. we’ve been here for all. Also this like 4 or 5 mi away, my daughter wants to go there tho not our reg HS:
https://www-m.cnn.com/2013/12/14/us/colorado-school-shooting/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Hunt3r, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 18:20 (one week ago) Permalink

i hear “stop bullying and treat saddoes” and im like “how bout SADDOES ARE MY PPL AND BULLYING SUCKS BUT FUCK YOU FUCKER END GUNS END GUNS END GUNS!!!”

Hunt3r, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 18:23 (one week ago) Permalink

working from home and living one block from our kid's school, i often have the thought "how fast could i run there if i ever heard shooting?"

and again this is another incident that probably isn't nearly as big a deal as it should be; the third time in the past month there's been a shooting that could have been much, much more devastating except for some mitigating factors.

omar little, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 18:50 (one week ago) Permalink

Hell of a high bar. https://t.co/Lk9Jz8aL4g

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) May 12, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 May 2019 15:40 (six days ago) Permalink

eh we like to have the law ready for when its needed as opposed to always be writing it in real time, kind a thing

deemsthelarker (darraghmac), Monday, 13 May 2019 15:45 (six days ago) Permalink


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