also wouldn't 'knowing where all the legally purchased handguns are' seem to satisfy the 'well-regulated militia' thing? like yup these ppl have guns and could be minutemen if needed, here they are!
arguing against the documentation of gun ownership might be offensive to 'american values' (lol), but i can't see how it's offensive to the constitution? i mean if yr argument of last resort against tightly-regulated-but-still-legal gun ownership (including assault rifles, heck why not) is that the govt knowing about yr guns ~defeats the purpose~ then a) you don't seem to understand how armed uprisings really work and b) might actually be a person for whom a gun isn't the best idea. the only way the govt will ever be cowed by an armed citizenry is if we can start buying tanks and fighter jets at wal-mart
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 18:13 (thirteen years ago) link
~bloggin~
I'm on my phone so hard to read and respond to all the long posts.
But re: the gun show loophole, your average gun owner would not be up in arms over that any more than the background check.
But just because it's a loophole doesn't mean there's any real harm from it either. A criminal seeking to obtain a gun doesn't care about the legality of registration or private transfer. It certainly hasn't stopped anything in Cali. And because of the number of guns in the US and lack of record keeping/private sales/etc. the idea of forming a master list now is kind of pointless.
I'm pretty laissez-faire about guns because they aren't a big issue to me. There are greater risks to public health and safety than the existence of guns, there are greater risks to liberty than taking them away, there are far greater causes of violent crime than the existence of guns. The right and the left both wildly overreact to guns as an issue.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 19:00 (thirteen years ago) link
totally with you on the last graf, fwiw.
and while it might be sort of pointless to have a master list of guns/owners in the US (though man i'd stay away from saying Master List in a political environment), it also wouldn't hurt? and might not be political kryptonite to anyone that tried to get it to happen? maybe? vs. like an outright ban on guns or even just handguns. i dunno, it seems like tighter handgun regs/closing the loophole might strike the best balance between political expediency/actual public good than a lot of other alternatives, and might merit pursuit.
i'd ~rather~ we went after root causes instead, but i don't think it'd be a waste of time or effort to make some changes, even if the damage has already been done (fat chance keeping tabs on the guns that are already out there, but why not track from now on). we may not know what happened to the soviets nukes, but it doesn't mean it's a waste of time to monitor the ones we DO know about. overblown analogy, probs, but w/e
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
going after the root causes is as difficult as criminalizing gun ownership - any euro-esque social welfare program will get as much political/institutional opposition as a serious gun control program. legalizing drugs? lol.
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah :-/
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
though i guess i labor under the impression that since gun control is such a wildly incendiary topic, even something like legalizing drugs would generate what would appear to be sane and sober discussion by comparison
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link
in some places it does! those same places would probably have essentially banned guns in 2010.
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 19:22 (thirteen years ago) link
were it not for the 2nd
also, and again this seems big brotherish and a little grating to my 15yo self's libertarian gun-shooting sensibilities, it seems like a federal database (or at least robust state-databases that the fed was allowed to hook into or w/e) would greatly ease investigative law enforcement.
as I continue to learn, with a lot of pain and frustration and headaches, this kind of thing is ridiculously hard to build even if everybody ostensibly wants to play nice and help out. legislating it into existence would just make it 2x as impossible because you'd have literally every contractor in the entire world put in a bid, and the companies that didn't win would probably sue the government, which would be settled by scrapping the entire deal and starting over. this process would probably be repeated 2x. I am not making any of this up.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 11 January 2011 01:59 (thirteen years ago) link
2x!!
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 11 January 2011 02:00 (thirteen years ago) link
!!
― ullr saves (gbx), Tuesday, 11 January 2011 03:02 (thirteen years ago) link
hm, so perhaps we should just ban them
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 11 January 2011 03:04 (thirteen years ago) link
thats quite the suggestion
― Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 11 January 2011 03:05 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 11 January 2011 03:06 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj47lB1a-0Y
― Kerm, Tuesday, 11 January 2011 06:26 (thirteen years ago) link
sb guns
― 1981 Nothing happened. (Trayce), Tuesday, 11 January 2011 09:12 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought about creating a sock account called 'guns' and inviting everybody to symbolically SB it
okay I'm heading over to the your terrible ideas thread, see you all there
― dayo, Tuesday, 11 January 2011 09:35 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/18/south.carolina.family.shot/index.html?hpt=T2
ugh
― Indolence Mission (DJP), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link
What that kid needed was obv. more safety training. Plus, if his family was armed maybe it wouldn't have happened.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Couldn't have happened if we banned handguns, right?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:56 (thirteen years ago) link
They should ban children.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:56 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:56 PM (1 hour ago)
salient point
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 00:33 (thirteen years ago) link
well, those poor people are dead, but at least old men can still hunt small birds
― max, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:02 (thirteen years ago) link
world without guns
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:OmM8cmOm_-ebUM:http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/birds-attack.jpg&t=1
― omar little, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:04 (thirteen years ago) link
some interesting statistics from the mcleans article i posted on the arizona-shootings thread:
Since 1776, a total of 580,000 U.S. troops have been killed in action, including the carnage of the Civil War. In just four decades ending in 2008, the number of firearms deaths in the U.S. was 1.3 million.According to the most recent annual data, in 2007 31,224 people died in the U.S. of gunshot wounds—12,632 of them murdered (other causes of death included suicide and unintentional deaths). A further 66,768 people survived gun injuries—44,466 of them sustained in an attack. Over the past three decades, on average about 20 mass shootings—defined as having at least four slain victims—have occurred annually in the United States, claiming nearly 100 lives each year. Some have been worse than others. March 2005: seven people dead in the Red Lake, Minn., massacre. April 2007: 32 killed in the Virginia Tech massacre. March 2009: 10 people killed in the Geneva County massacre in Alabama. April 2009: Binghamton, New York, 14 dead.The U.S. has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands: approximately one-quarter of American adults own a licensed gun.
According to the most recent annual data, in 2007 31,224 people died in the U.S. of gunshot wounds—12,632 of them murdered (other causes of death included suicide and unintentional deaths). A further 66,768 people survived gun injuries—44,466 of them sustained in an attack. Over the past three decades, on average about 20 mass shootings—defined as having at least four slain victims—have occurred annually in the United States, claiming nearly 100 lives each year. Some have been worse than others. March 2005: seven people dead in the Red Lake, Minn., massacre. April 2007: 32 killed in the Virginia Tech massacre. March 2009: 10 people killed in the Geneva County massacre in Alabama. April 2009: Binghamton, New York, 14 dead.
The U.S. has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands: approximately one-quarter of American adults own a licensed gun.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:15 (thirteen years ago) link
xxxxp I don't think anyone thinks gun control = no guns.
― The Hankerciser 200 (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:35 (thirteen years ago) link
well not in my lifetime but it's the goal
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:05 (thirteen years ago) link
ain't gonna happen
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:56 (Yesterday)
― Young Guns aside, the western is not my favorite genre. (latebloomer), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:07 (thirteen years ago) link
not with liberals constantly reminding me of that, yeah i know xp
xp sort of otm - anyone who thinks a child should be allowed anywhere near a gun is obv insane
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:09 (thirteen years ago) link
You're more likely to get children banned than guns.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link
one-gun-per-household policy
― earnest goes to camp, ironic goes to ilm (pixel farmer), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not sure why you specified 'liberals telling you that' - is one's political ideology supposed to override reality?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:15 (thirteen years ago) link
the world changes in pretty crazy ways, maybe 100 years from now guns will just be kind of pointless cause there will be better ways to kill people / hunt birds / protect yourself from government fascism.
― iatee, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:15 (thirteen years ago) link
alternatively gun people might just get iphones and realize that playing angry birds is more fun than owning a gun
― iatee, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:17 (thirteen years ago) link
I own Angry Birds on both iPad and iPhone. It has never been, in any way, as fun as taking three 9mm semi-autos to the range today and shooting 250 rounds.
Sex -> laughing with pretty girls = Catan with friends ->shooting guns ->>>>>>>>>>>>>Angry Birds
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:19 (thirteen years ago) link
polar ice caps melting should help
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:19 (thirteen years ago) link
so I guess we just need to get gun owners laid?
― iatee, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I have never played angry birds fwiw
if not laid, then a regular game of Catan, yeah
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:21 (thirteen years ago) link
so tempted to post the pictures I took at the range
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:24 (thirteen years ago) link
cool bro
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:24 (thirteen years ago) link
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:27 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:11 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
why america is great in 9 words
― max, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:49 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:19 AM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark
only one of these things is lethal to other people, and no I'm not talking about sex, ba dum bing!
― dayo, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 02:50 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350721/Girl-9-father-shot-dead-anti-immigrant-vigilantes-begged-life.html
man, arizona
― iatee, Thursday, 27 January 2011 05:35 (thirteen years ago) link
The couple went to the front room - where Brisenia had spent the night on the sofa to be near her new dog - and spotted two people outside.
I want to throw up
― based god kwassa kwassa (dayo), Thursday, 27 January 2011 06:00 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe they were hunting quail?
― max, Thursday, 27 January 2011 06:08 (thirteen years ago) link
it's a good thing the family had a gun of their own so they could protect themselves
― based god kwassa kwassa (dayo), Thursday, 27 January 2011 06:20 (thirteen years ago) link