cars are just really big guns that can take you places
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
cars own, america owns
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:04 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry. I dunno about where you've lived before jjjusten but I grew up in inner city philly - stories about innocents getting caught in cross-fire were pretty much a standard thing. so it really rubs me wrong when ppl dismiss that fact of life as 'statistically insignificant - uh, sure, if you live in places that are not big cities.
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I come from a quaint tiny burg called Minneapolis you've probably never heard of
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:07 (thirteen years ago) link
er indoors used to carry sw0rds to d4nce gigs
Scottish or bellydance??
― Jesus Christ, the apple tree! (Laurel), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:08 (thirteen years ago) link
latter
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:08 (thirteen years ago) link
ok so 'er indoors = mom, right? why
― mookieproof, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago) link
inner city philly
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:10 (thirteen years ago) link
minneapolis, crime capital of the world
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:11 (thirteen years ago) link
dayo don't you know that most gun owners are responsible and know what they're doing
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:11 (thirteen years ago) link
minneapolis's statistically insignificant crimes weren't as tragic as inner city philly's because philly had more of them.
wait..
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:12 (thirteen years ago) link
We do have problems occasionally with performance swords. Can't get them on Ellis Island, for example. Or to diplomatic events. But that's only in areas with heightened security.
― Jesus Christ, the apple tree! (Laurel), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, that's exactly what dayo was saying kerm, good job
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
boyz2men vs hüskers amirite
― mookieproof, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
xp to Laurel: Ah okay. I think they still do it here as long as they're not caught, and as most gigs are in the n/w suburbs with adjoining parking there's not a police presence.
― mookieproof, Monday, 10 January 2011 12:10 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I don't know what that means
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:14 (thirteen years ago) link
― Kerm, Monday, January 10, 2011 9:12 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
no, just saying that okay if you look at america's population as a whole, getting caught in crossfire is 'statistically impossible' but that doesn't mean it's uniform. your chances sort of increase by a pretty large factor if you live in certain parts of the country, i.e. cities w/ high crime rates. look, I understand most of the pro-gun arguments being made itt, but trying to justify gun ownership using statistics is some bullshit imo. just because statistically only a small # of people are killed by drunk drivers each year doesn't make it any less of a noble cause to try and reduce the number of drunk driving deaths each year.
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey maybe gun control advocates should look at where gun violence takes place and why, instead of ignoring poor minorities so they can demonize conservative white dudes.
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:24 (thirteen years ago) link
not a lot of poor minorities arguing for their right to bear arms
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link
wow, who's gonna top that? xp
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Gun control is all about demographics now?
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Also, 'instead of'? Like only one thing can be done at a time?
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm totally sympathetic to the argument that yeah, we should go after the root causes of violence in urban cities and that that would probably have a greater overall positive impact on reducing crime rates. but that doesn't change the fact that guns are pretty huge enablers to crime.
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:31 (thirteen years ago) link
yo iatee i know we don't always see eye-to-eye on the politics threads but i just wanna say you've been my hero on these threads, in all seriousness
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:32 (thirteen years ago) link
haha I hope I've convinced you that I'm not an undercover moderate by now
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:34 (thirteen years ago) link
fwiw I would hate to live in a country in which violent crime is so prevalent that I would feel the need to carry a gun everywhere, wtf. Frequently O_O at the very concept that western democracies function like that.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:36 (thirteen years ago) link
dayo: but guns are enabling violence where crime already exists. More guns don't just generate crime. Gun sales skyrocketed after Obama was elected because dudes expected him to start banning guns, and violent crime has continued to fall.
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:47 (thirteen years ago) link
many xps - also willing to bet that "civilians caught in the crossfire" is statistically insignificant even in Philly
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:49 (thirteen years ago) link
fwiw I would hate to live in a country in which violent crime is so prevalent that I would feel the need to carry a gun everyanywhere
― all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:49 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah a bunch of paranoid militia dudes buying their 6th and 7th guns didn't result in crime increases, crazy
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:50 (thirteen years ago) link
People feeling compelled to carry guns has little to do with reasonable analysis of the level of violent crime. Most of the people doing it are living in rural or suburban communities anyway.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:51 (thirteen years ago) link
As I was going to gun shows all through that panic, it was people buying their first gun because they thought they wouldn't be able to, not Birchers stockpiling for the Apocalypse.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:52 (thirteen years ago) link
i think anecdotal evidence is def the way to go here
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Fairly sure British violent crime rate top those of the armed to the teeth US.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Exactly, tens of thousands of dudes buying hundreds of thousands of guns didn't result in crime increases.
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:53 (thirteen years ago) link
But I can guarantee I was present for several thousand more gun sales than iatee was at the time.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:54 (thirteen years ago) link
"Gun sales skyrocketed after Obama was elected because dudes expected him to start banning guns"
are the stockpilers generally the same people who are selling guns to criminals, or is it the people who are selling to the stockpilers?i could see a weird freakonomics thing where vendors who would otherwise sell to criminals find themselves in a position where it's more profitable to sell to stockpilers,and therefore make it harder or more expensive for criminals to get ahold of guns.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:55 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
dog... this is not really the issue
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link
intentional homicide rate per 100k in the u.s. = 5.45
intentional homicide rate in the u.k. = 1.28
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:58 (thirteen years ago) link
No actual, licensed dealer sells to criminals, FYI. The paperwork requirements for being an FFL are insane and closely tracked by the ATF.
violent crime encompasses a shit ton more than "intentional homicide"
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 01:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont think anyone is making the argument that guns increase crime rates? because why would that...? the problem with guns is that they make killing people unbelievably casual and efficient
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 01:59 (thirteen years ago) link
It's a totally self-serving argument when the NRA/etc. argue that gun control (in the US) started primarily as a form of disenfranchisement of minority groups and the working class. But it's also true.
Yeah, this was the point one guy made to me about the assault weapons ban -- that it only became an issue when white people started seeing gang-war news clips of young black guys with assault rifles, and everybody freaked out. Of course, you also had black leaders calling for the weapons ban (because most of the victims were in their communities), so it's not like you can make a neat and tidy case that gun control is all veiled race fear. But it's a complicated thing, at least.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:00 (thirteen years ago) link
comparing non-murder crime states across countries w/ vastly different ways of reporting and classifying 'crime' is obv a super reliable way of saying which is more 'dangerous'
― ⊚ ⓪ ㉧ ☉ ๏ ʘ ◉ ◎ ⓞ Ⓞ (Lamp), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:02 (thirteen years ago) link
to qualify that - some shady dealers may deal under the table, but they get caught pretty easily.Gun dealers and the firearms retail industry are far from the primary suppliers to criminals.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:02 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Violent crime exists with or without guns. But you cant slay people from a moving car with a fucking baseball bat.
― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago) link
it should be obvious at this point that british people have no idea what theyre talking about when it comes to the us
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago) link
might as well just run 'em over
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 02:05 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost
<3 Britishers, good luck with your Great Pint Glass Control Debate thread
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 02:06 (thirteen years ago) link
moving to liechtenstein
― all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 10 January 2011 02:06 (thirteen years ago) link