The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

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Open for business. Kenan, you were saying...?

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:00 (thirteen years ago) link

bump for reopening. Manalishi = Roger Adultery, btw

stet, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:37 (thirteen years ago) link

Guilty as charged.

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:38 (thirteen years ago) link

i wrote along post but i erased it

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:40 (thirteen years ago) link

oh well that makes sense

river wolf, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:40 (thirteen years ago) link

xp

river wolf, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:41 (thirteen years ago) link

i stand by this statement:

if you want to stop being a political idiot, don't turn to the internet for discussion. the internet has allowed political dialogue on an unprecented scale but the quality of the discourse has, if anything, suffered.

-- lfam, Monday, April 16, 2007 2:27 PM (7 hours ago)

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:41 (thirteen years ago) link

i will say this: ilx is not the place to look for level-headed debate on gun control -- the prevailing attitude* here is that guns are bad, full stop, and debate is unlikely to change many minds


*a gross generalization, sure, but i'd say 5% of ilxors have even handled guns

river wolf, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Fuck that, I don't want to be a political idiot, can we get this thread locked?
xpost

Drooone, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:46 (thirteen years ago) link

"The Great ILX Gun Control Debate"

Aimless, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Kenan, you were saying...?

I already emailed you, but oh whatever.

I do believe the the impulse to carry a gun yourself is a weird, and specifically American, kind of Chuck Norris impulse to take vengeance on attackers. Maybe a legacy from the Revolution? I won't even pretend to know. But it's there, and I sense it in a lot more people than you would think, even way up here in faggot Yankee territory.

Point is, shooting back is not going to stop people shooting at you. You want less dead kids, crack down on guns. I guarantee it will have a real effect. Anything else works like... I dunno... attacking the problem from a "spiritual" angle, like we can somehow magically rehabilitate people who would ordinarily have guns, and turn them into guardians of the holy and proper. Don't work like that.

You want less shootings? Crack down on guns. It makes the most sense, it's the most direct, and sorry if it offends your nutty and angry sensibility, it will work. It has worked in every country that has tried it. Less guns = less shootings.


*a gross generalization, sure, but i'd say 5% of ilxors have even handled guns


I have handled guns, and if I lived where I used to, I would still want a shotgun, becauce armadilloes are HELL on a garden.

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:50 (thirteen years ago) link

xpost ...Already in danger of being 'locked.'

William F Buckley, where art thou?

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:52 (thirteen years ago) link

I emailed you back kenan. Sinc you posted your email, I'll post my response:

I'll be civil back, despite never really having to confront someone in 'real life' so diametrically opposed to my own viewpoint. In other words, I like to think that people with your opinions only exist in make believe.

Check out a book called More Guns, Less Crime by John R Lott - check it out of the library so it doesn't cost you anything. I think you will find many facts that will refute what you believe.

What are criminals afraid of? Burglar alarms? Dogs? Nope. They're afraid of some housewife in a bathrobe with a loaded and cocked .357.

I agree with you - we need to crack down on gun crimes. I'm in total agreement with that. But the way to do that is not to take guns away from law abiding citizens who have a constitutional right to protect themselves and their families, paranoid Chuck Norris mentality or not.

Shooting back - and effectively neutralizing a threat - DOES stop someone shooting at you. Do I need to explain physics to you here?

Lastly, the fact is, and I think this tends to get ignored in these kinds of debates - I don't HAVE to justify gun ownership - not socially, not politically. Fact is I like guns. I like owning them. I like shooting them. I like how they look and smell. And it's my right to stockpile them if I want to. I have a CCW permit and can legally carry a gun in 39 states.

And you will not meet anyone more diligent about gun safety than me. I don't even like seeing the muzzle of a gun pointed at someone on television.

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:54 (thirteen years ago) link

oh i bet

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't think I want to get engaged in a debate, but I'll point out that Lott's retarded book has been refuted pretty handily.

max, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:57 (thirteen years ago) link

kenan - I'm serious. Because of my education, I can tell when someone - like John Edwards, for instance, to cite a recent example - has little to no experience handling a gun. I can also tell when an actor is doing something with a gun that, in the real world, would be totally unsafe. It's ruined a lot of movies for me.

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:01 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't think you realize just how ADORABLE it is when someone cites their "education" when no one asked about it in the first place.

SO CUTE.

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:07 (thirteen years ago) link

Are you hitting on me now, kenan?

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:09 (thirteen years ago) link

http://www.in-sect.com/scr/cute_cat.jpg

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:10 (thirteen years ago) link

I do believe the the impulse to carry a gun yourself is a weird, and specifically American, kind of Chuck Norris impulse to take vengeance on attackers. Maybe a legacy from the Revolution? I won't even pretend to know. But it's there, and I sense it in a lot more people than you would think, even way up here in faggot Yankee territory.

this is NOT specifically american, unless you mean specifically south, central, and northern american, oh and also throw in african and southwest asian and most of the north hemispheres.

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:10 (thirteen years ago) link

it is not some specifically american quirk that is wrong and must be repressed.

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link

are you feeling guilt?

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:12 (thirteen years ago) link

and i mean that question in the least agressive tone possible

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:12 (thirteen years ago) link

KENAN 99% OF THE TIME YOU MEAN "FEWER" WHERE YOU ARE SAYING "LESS".

HI DERE, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:12 (thirteen years ago) link

ILX is the hair-splitting capital of the world

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:13 (thirteen years ago) link

is this really about grammar, or am I being baited?

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:14 (thirteen years ago) link

This is really about grammar! You are arguing right now that you want kids who are less dead, not fewer dead kids. It's kind of pro-zombie.

HI DERE, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:15 (thirteen years ago) link

Manalishi, what do you think would have happened at VT if numerous other students were also carrying guns? Is it possible that someone would have stopped the shooter? I suppose. But it's equally if not more likely that ALL FUCKING HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD ACTUALLY BE SURE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WHO WAS SHOOTING WHO

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:17 (thirteen years ago) link

this is NOT specifically american, unless you mean specifically south, central, and northern american, oh and also throw in african and southwest asian and most of the north hemispheres.

ok that is a very good point, racism and homophobia prevails. I guess I was trying to attack the type of racism and homophobia that Rog is most familiar with?

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:17 (thirteen years ago) link

it's equally if not more likely that ALL FUCKING HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD ACTUALLY BE SURE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WHO WAS SHOOTING WHO

haha me and a friend were playing out scenarios that might happen if EVERYONE was armed. They were all grim, and none of them involved killing 32 people at once. Verdict was, if evry college student had a gun, we'd see about 10 times more casulaties per campus every year then this, only one or two at a time, so it wouldn't be such news.

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Not if they were properly educated.

xpost to my pal kenan - Familiar with how? Are you seriously publicly calling a complete stranger a racist and a homophobe?

Hurting - there are dozens of scenarios. All I know is that if I were a student at VT with a CCW but was not permitted to carry on campus, I would be coming forward raising absolute hell right about now.

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Properly educated how, with SWAT training?

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Properly educated about hell-on-Earth situations that devolve into massive, chaotic gunfights? It's not like these kids are wearing uniforms that clearly signify which shooter is a good guy.

x-post.

Clay, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Are you seriously publicly calling a complete stranger a racist and a homophobe?

ha ha

You are not a complete stranger to any of us anymore, and I don't need to make public judgements about you, friend. :)

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:24 (thirteen years ago) link

All I know is that if I were a student at VT with a CCW but was not permitted to carry on campus, I would be coming forward raising absolute hell right about now.

Which would be simultaneously insensitive and hilariously delusional of you!

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:25 (thirteen years ago) link

"If only you had let me stop the shooting! I'm a properly educated gun-owner!"

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:25 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah, kenan, i'm not sure what you're talking about:

ok that is a very good point, racism and homophobia prevails. I guess I was trying to attack the type of racism and homophobia that Rog is most familiar with?

i was talking about the impulse to carry a gun... not racism and homophobia. but you are partially right: racism and homophobia are prevalent everywhere.

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:26 (thirteen years ago) link

wow this is stressing me out. i'm going to go relax for a while. but please explain that comment.

lfam, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I think that oftentimes gun advocates grossly overestimate their fellow man's ability to handle a gun without shooting off someone's face.

Conversely, I think that anti-gun crusaders grossly overestimate the number of murderers who go through legal channels to procure firearms.

In summation, there are merits in both positions and the best course of action lies somewhere in the middle; personally, I would rather the compromise leaned more towards the anti-gun side of things because I think the likelyhood of needing a gun in order to protect yourself from a situation like this is much less than the likelyhood that someone will accidentally shoot someone with your firearm.

HI DERE, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link

As (strangely) the owner of the most guns on ILX, I find 'pro-gun' arguments are mostly bullshit. Guns do make it easier for people to commit crimes. The Second Amendment is not an absolute, nor is the "everybody gets mortars" reading incontrovertible. Expecting everyone to train regularly enough to safely carry a weapon is absurd - even cops aren't terribly safe with theirs. Large segments of the gun activists are reprehensible for a variety of reasons - paranoia, racism, etc..

From my perspective gun control as proposed in the US will never work. Anything short of a total confiscation, reactionary punishments for possesion and shutting down every last manufacturer of weapons with possible access to the US would have any measurable effect on gun violence. You will have to make guns 'not exist' or else there will be a perpetual black market selling to criminals. Rarely is that suggestion proposed, because it is extreme.

There are very good, reasonable arguments for private gun ownership - ceding all police power to the state is dangerous, home defense, gun violence is heavily related to class and if you attack underlying issues it becomes unnecessary, so on. Harper's ran a good article on the progressive case for guns a few months back.

They just get drowned out in the chorus of militia wannabes.

milo z, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link

IN A TIME OF CHAOS...

ONE MAN...

HAD THE PROPER GUN EDUCATION...

TO RESTORE ORDER...

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link

FWIW I largely agree with HI DERE and to some extent even Milo.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:32 (thirteen years ago) link

To take the high road and answer the insufferably sarcastic questions upthread: Gun safety classes. The younger the better.

Teach evolution. Teach safe sex. And teach gun safety.

Replace the obligatory 'Arbor Day' lesson plan if neccessary. Reading, writing, arithmetic and personal responsibility.

Seems simple enough to me.

As far as kenan's witch hunt - you really feel you know me well enough to call me a racist and a homophobe, huh?

And it is ME who gets barred from ILX?

Milo, your post is rational and well reasoned, but I disagree that the right to beraarms is not absolute. I'm also pretty sure you don't own the most guns on ILX!

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:33 (thirteen years ago) link

erm, 'bear arms.' I don't want to be a victim of Hi Dere's grammar police brutality.

Manalishi, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:34 (thirteen years ago) link

There are very good, reasonable arguments for private gun ownership - ceding all police power to the state is dangerous, home defense, gun violence is heavily related to class and if you attack underlying issues it becomes unnecessary, so on. Harper's ran a good article on the progressive case for guns a few months back.

They just get drowned out in the chorus of militia wannabes.


So then, you're saying... you'd be for guns, if not for all the nutters that have a vested interest in owning guns?

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:35 (thirteen years ago) link

I'd be interested to know ILX gun inventories.xp.

Drooone, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:35 (thirteen years ago) link

the (morbid) joke at my high school was that columbine couldn't happen there because there would be too much return fire :-/ kind of an exaggeration as we weren't exactly one of those warzone urban schools or anything but also sort of disturbingly true because gun/gang activity was still a frequent enough occurence.

anyway i'm actually somewhat pro-gun, not pro-assault rifle or whatever but i think handguns shd be legal with reasonable regulations

best course of action lies somewhere in the middle

basically

deej, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:36 (thirteen years ago) link

you really feel you know me well enough to call me a racist and a homophobe, huh?
No, I do not, and that's fair.

But I know you well enough to cal you someone who needs to shut the fuck up.

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:36 (thirteen years ago) link

btw, milo, I am serious about my question for you.

kenan, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I would feel comfortable calling him a gun fetishist with a Rambo fantasy.

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 02:37 (thirteen years ago) link

The NRA will likely challenge it in federal court as unconstitutional, at least in part, but that's to be expected these days.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 30 March 2018 16:28 (two years ago) link

way to put a bullseye on yourself for tyrants, Vermont!

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 30 March 2018 17:10 (two years ago) link

I swear if I see a single more "Actually, Bank of America is good now #welcometotheresistance" post/tweet/whatever I am going to burn down a building or something.

Millennial Whoop, wanna fight about it? (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:13 (two years ago) link

Very excited to share this project: "The Gun Studies Syllabus," which I created with the wonderful Caroline Light.

Gun Studies Syllabus https://t.co/pFRYghk0e8 via @publicbooks

— Lindsay Livingston (@lindsayli) April 12, 2018

map, Friday, 13 April 2018 03:18 (two years ago) link

it's been 2 months since the Parkland mass shooting, 6 months since the Las Vegas mass shooting at the country festival, and the 2 year anniversary of the Pulse mass shooting is coming up this June.

the national conversation has been had several times, everyone agrees that something needs to be done, and a few states and localities are starting to make changes. virtually nothing on the national level. is the strategy to just wait for the mid-terms and make it an litmus test issue then?

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 18:06 (two years ago) link

My guess is that so many national politicians have been burned by the NRA over hte years that getting any of them to make a forthright stand on gun violence is going to require a massive demonstration of strength by gun control advocates, plus some staying power across multiple elections, before incumbents get on board in large numbers.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 19:19 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

Aw, maybe they shouldn't have spent all that money on that presidential campaign.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 August 2018 16:30 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

4chan nerds are photoshopping David Hogg to look female, calling him Daisy, and then having sexual fantasies about their Daisy Hogg memes. I feel like this is some... new, uncharted form of self-own pic.twitter.com/UkbYERuhan

— Michael Edison Hayden (@MichaelEHayden) August 28, 2018

Eliza D., Tuesday, 28 August 2018 15:51 (two years ago) link

nuke earth

omar little, Tuesday, 28 August 2018 15:56 (two years ago) link

https://jezebel.com/the-story-of-a-gun-1828629575

sleeve, Thursday, 30 August 2018 14:02 (two years ago) link

^ from that article I learned, among other things, that the CEO or Ruger is named Chris Killjoy, which may be taken in several apt senses. Astounding!

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 30 August 2018 20:42 (two years ago) link

of Ruger

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 30 August 2018 20:45 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

how much worse could this guy be? This much worse: https://www.sfgate.com/news/local/crime/article/Controversial-Austin-man-behind-3-D-printed-gun-13241265.php

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:20 (two years ago) link

Worse than whoever runs "sugardaddymeet.com?"

DJI, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:21 (two years ago) link

hey let's not quibble about who deserves to fall where on the Dante-levels-of-Hell scale

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:23 (two years ago) link

$500? damn

Nhex, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:46 (two years ago) link

what a scumbag

maura, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:19 (two years ago) link

not that it matters all that much in the scheme of things but why was he charged with sexual assault instead of solicitation or statutory rape?

Nhex, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:54 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

dammn that's cold work MAD

Nhex, Friday, 5 October 2018 21:41 (one year ago) link

good for them.

El Tomboto, Friday, 5 October 2018 22:17 (one year ago) link

also nice inclusion of the fucking useless metal detector

El Tomboto, Friday, 5 October 2018 22:18 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

A kid was shot and killed at school this morning and they’re continuing on with classes like nothing happened. We’re completely desensitized to violence. This is the new normal in America. https://t.co/2pDfxiOwna

— Dylan (@dyllyp) October 29, 2018

Karl Malone, Monday, 29 October 2018 19:17 (one year ago) link

fucking awful.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 29 October 2018 20:20 (one year ago) link

This NYMag piece was tears this morning. I don't know how fix America. http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/school-shooting-survivors.html

Yerac, Monday, 29 October 2018 20:43 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

congrats on doing the bare minimum

frogbs, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 18:49 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

NRA’s presences is remarkably low-key to absent at #CPAC2019

No Wayne LaPierre — a CPAC mainstay — or Dana Loesch, fixture in recent years. Ollie North spoke earlier, but he has different public image, not so associated w/NRA.

Panel right now on guns, no one from NRA.

— Michelangelo Signorile (@MSignorile) February 28, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 28 February 2019 19:56 (one year ago) link

Laying low, waiting for all the Russian collusion stuff to blow over and be forgotten.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 28 February 2019 20:06 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

An active-shooter training exercise at an Indiana elementary school in January left teachers with welts, bruises and abrasions after they were shot with plastic pellets by the local sheriff’s office conducting the session.

The incident, acknowledged in testimony this week before state lawmakers, was confirmed by two elementary school teachers in Monticello, who described an exercise in which teachers were asked by local law enforcement to kneel down against a classroom wall before being sprayed across their backs with plastic pellets without warning.

“They told us, ‘This is what happens if you just cower and do nothing,’” said one of the two teachers, both of whom asked IndyStar not to be identified out of concern for their jobs. “They shot all of us across our backs. I was hit four times.

“It hurt so bad.”

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/21/active-shooter-training-for-schools-teachers-shot-with-plastic-pellets/3231103002/

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Thursday, 21 March 2019 19:25 (one year ago) link

Ban pellet guns.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 21 March 2019 19:38 (one year ago) link

Ban small town Hoosier law enforcement imo and ime.

Soupy Slacks (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 March 2019 19:39 (one year ago) link

A sad tribute to Jeremy Richman, who lost his daughter at Sandy Hook:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/31/sandy-hook-shooting-suicide-parents-fake-news-conspiracy

pomenitul, Sunday, 31 March 2019 15:28 (one year ago) link

the statement from his wife... I can't imagine

“My champion and the love of my life is the person who had every tool in the toolbox at his disposal … he succumbed to the grief that he could not escape. To parent our children without my champion shatters my heart and I will love my best friend forever.”

ogmor, Sunday, 31 March 2019 17:01 (one year ago) link

what hurt was reading how much he and his wife suffered every time there was another shooting, and how many people must be in their same shoes. there just isn't any escape with the frequency that shootings occur.

pippin drives a lambo through the gates of isengard (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 31 March 2019 17:13 (one year ago) link

some pig fucking troll was walking around the national mall this weekend wearing a t-shirt that said "MY 30-ROUND MAG IDENTIFIES AS A 10 - I'M OKAY RIGHT?" and I have to live the rest of my days with the knowledge that I didn't spot him soon enough to grab his belt and chuck him into the tidal basin

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:06 (one year ago) link

you all know without my saying that he was bald, white, late 40s, and the shirt was black with white IMPACT lettering

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:14 (one year ago) link

wtf "bald" is this a murderous characteristic

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:17 (one year ago) link

yes obviously it goes right along with everything else I said everyone becomes a twat when they turn 46, lose their melanin and start wearing black t-shirts

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:21 (one year ago) link

there but for the grace of god

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 31 March 2019 22:28 (one year ago) link

seven months pass...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/supreme-court-allows-families-of-sandy-hook-shooting-victims-to-sue-gunmaker-remington/2019/11/12/7f6a3afe-055a-11ea-b17d-8b867891d39d_story.html

The Supreme Court on Tuesday turned down an appeal from the gun industry intended to block a lawsuit from families of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims.
The decision lets stand a groundbreaking ruling from the Connecticut Supreme Court that said the manufacturer of the Bushmaster AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle can be sued and potentially held liable for the 2012 massacre in Newtown, Conn.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 16:00 (ten months ago) link

that's very good news. now if we can just luck out so the next few mass shootings are clustered around the same day or two, and at least one of them can involve an especially tragic group of victims, we might start to get some movement on this in congress as well

at home in the alternate future, (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 16:03 (ten months ago) link

let's see, maybe an orphanage and a convent would do the trick, but only if the shooters were aiming for the world record.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 17:01 (ten months ago) link

one month passes...

this is slightly orwellian but slightly.... awesome?

https://www.shotspotter.com/technology/

Apparently this came into play at that party in Chicago.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 22 December 2019 20:48 (nine months ago) link

What an innovative way to deal with the problem of too many guns! Granted, it does nothing to reduce the number of guns or shootings or victims or deaths or wounding, but it sure does solve that other major problem of figuring out where all that gunfire is coming from!

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 22 December 2019 21:38 (nine months ago) link

Yes too little too late probably.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 22 December 2019 21:41 (nine months ago) link

one month passes...

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/feds-publish-info-on-arizona-lead-contamination-from-shooting-11438893

what a shitty fucking hobby. (there's also the noise pollution. I was out on an otherwise lovely hike by Prescott Saturday, marred only by the near constant sound of gunfire from an unofficial range on public land 5 miles away.)

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 16:46 (seven months ago) link

hmm, interesting. the trump admin should issue a revised rule to exempt Table Mesa from lead contamination regulations. that would make the problem go away

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 22:46 (seven months ago) link


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