A question about climate change/global warming.

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What do you think the reasons are that many people are not willing to consider the possibilities for the human causes for climate change/global warming, despite massive scientific evidence? I'm talking just normal citizens who do not work for the Hoover Institute, Exxon, etc.

I work with several people who refuse to read any articles about it, or even consider ANY information about it, unless its critical of the whole notion. My wife says that most people that she works with are the same (she works in the States...I'm in Canada).
Are they just too lazy? Are they suspicious of any kind of intellectualism? Are they just prone to believe in conspiracy theories?

And I'm not talking here about being being a healthy skeptic. They do not consider ANY of the information.

peepee, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:32 (twelve years ago) link

avoidance of guilt.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:33 (twelve years ago) link

They don't want to have to change what they are doing, or even consider it. It's the "American way" to do whatever the hell you want and damn the consequences. Apparently.

Sara R-C, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:34 (twelve years ago) link

"they can't tell me what to do!"

*shake fist at cabal of liberal scientists*


Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:36 (twelve years ago) link

Also, I think there is a suspicion of scientists having some kind of left wing agenda. (And a scary number of people in the US don't understand even the basics of how science works, which doesn't help either.)

Sara R-C, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:36 (twelve years ago) link

I think there's a lot of the "well, even if I make changes, no one else is going to" attitude. It's easier to not do anything :(

Incrementalism is never gonna be sexy.

Maybe if the church got involved there'd be more progress. Going green for Jesus, or something. I think there was a documentary about this on the other day. Though, greeny issues are a bit pagan.

There were some good articles about green issues in the last issue of the Idler, "How to Save the World without really trying". Basically, not treating the world as just a resource.

jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:51 (twelve years ago) link

Doing less is the most noble thing you can do.

jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:53 (twelve years ago) link

I've heard of more evangelical christian churches refocusing on the "stewards of the earth" idea, in Seattle at least.

There's not a lot of direct positive feedback for the actions and efforts of an individual, which makes it hard if not impossible to motivate people to take action. As to not even wanting to know or acknowledge that their choices (added with the choices of others like them) have a global impact, well there's a lot of head-in-the-sand w/r/t science, environment, consumerism, politics - a major part of human nature, we'd just rather not think about it thanks anyway.

Jaq, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:11 (twelve years ago) link

I think it's absorbing right-wing propaganda, which is of course designed to be the easiest to absorb without even thinking about it. Even the word "environment" begins to take on negative connotations in this light, which is weird, but there you are. "Environment" leads to "protecting" leads to "anti-business" leads to "THEY TOOK AWR JARBS!"

Also, from a purely capitalist, profit-motivated perspective, it really *doesn't* make good sense to take steps to change.

kenan, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:19 (twelve years ago) link

In the short term, of course.

kenan, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:20 (twelve years ago) link

Though, I heard those pesky capitalists are planting crops for biofuel which means less hops for beer = increased prices.

jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:23 (twelve years ago) link

oh great, more corn.

kenan, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:24 (twelve years ago) link

It never rains but it pours = more evidence of global warming.

jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:24 (twelve years ago) link

not just avoidance of guilt but also denial re a sense of lifestyle inadequacy. people hate being shown that what they've been doing for so long is wrong (generalisation) as it makes them look foolish/ignorant.

blueski, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:27 (twelve years ago) link

"Also, from a purely capitalist, profit-motivated perspective, it really *doesn't* make good sense to take steps to change."

I don't think this is entirely true - the profit motive to "go green" has grown incredibly strong over the last few years (similar to agribusinesses' desire to "break into" the hugely profitable organic market). Where there's services/products to be developed and delivered and a simultaneous public clamor for those services/products, there is money to be made.

Speaking from my own personal position in the energy field, I would tell any kid coming up who wants to make a shitload of money to get an energy engineering degree.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:27 (twelve years ago) link

people hate being shown that what they've been doing for so long is wrong (generalisation) as it makes them look foolish/ignorant.

see also 'Creationists' and what have you

blueski, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:29 (twelve years ago) link

Speaking from my own personal position in the energy field, I would tell any kid coming up who wants to make a shitload of money to get an energy engineering degree.

As someone with a family member who is CLEANING UP on methane digesters, I concur.

Laurel, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:35 (twelve years ago) link

Coco from Man or Astro-man? went into biodiesel.:


jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:39 (twelve years ago) link

He makes fuel outta grease from restaurants.

jel --, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:40 (twelve years ago) link

there's a documentary about some all-girl punk band touring the country doing that

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:43 (twelve years ago) link

Absolutely Shakey (and Laurel). There's enough momentum behind "green" "renewable" energy right now for people to make serious $$$ for the next decade, minimum. Chemical engineers who focus on organic (hydrocarbons), physicists, even the traditional electrical and mechanical engineering disciplines - all will be in demand, especially with minors in environmental sciences or policies.

Jaq, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 18:43 (twelve years ago) link

ahh, see, my dad has worked for years for a company in south Texas that helps refineries fix leaks and comply with EPA regulations. The oil dudes think of my dad as a necessary evil. He is not loved by his clients. My dad, by way of commiseration, perhaps, believes that the EPA is stupid and corrupt and that there is nothing wrong with the environment whatsoever.

kenan, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:00 (twelve years ago) link

the guilt-avoidance and admitting-wrong things are pretty otm, at a deeper level than the r-w talking points thing (which flows out of the first two), but there's at least two other factors i can think of. one is related to the lifestyle thing, but goes a bit deeper - a major change in the social fabric in response to this would deny some people a sense of meaning/purpose in life - it would eliminate not just the existence but the social utility/status of their jobs/defining leisure activities (compare the sagebrush complaints about the spotted owl and horny lizard or whatever it was). the other is that it requires people to think on a macro level, about the world as a system, etc., which many people are unwilling to do/uncomfortable doing probably for a variety of reasons but one big one might be that it makes them feel very small and without much agency in things.

gabbneb, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:09 (twelve years ago) link

the EPA is stupid and corrupt

As with any govt agency, I don't doubt there's truth in this.

Jaq, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:12 (twelve years ago) link

Also, the simple things each of us can do seem so inconsequential, the bigger things (like putting up a solar panel or windmill) are costly. It all seems so hopeless. Those on the right have a kneejerk reaction to doom-and-gloom. Those who accept the problem tend to bicker about what's worse and better (paper vs. plastic, dishwashers vs. hand-washing dishes). There was a story in our local paper about houses here installing copper tubing in the ground to harness geothermal energy. I sent the article to a family friend who is making building plans - his response was that the enviromental footprint of the copper tubing and excavators and digging outweighed the use of conventional energy systems. It all just gets so confusing that it's easy to throw one's hands up in the air and go for a nice aimless drive while it's still possible.

Maria :D, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:19 (twelve years ago) link

This is all reminding me of when I was in college - my Dad (sort of a country club Republican sort) was pretty annoyed with my going to marches and similar activities. "You young kids think that you can change things..." was I think what he said.

I think it is really bizarre to see people - like him - in their early 60s now - who lived through huge social changes (like, say, the Civil Rights movement) who still don't think that things can be changed. (Of course there is also the fact that a lot of them didn't feel comfortable with those changes and definitely don't want any more change.)

Sara R-C, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:23 (twelve years ago) link

There are a lot of younger people who now have this very romantic notion about the old days, before styrofoam and disposable everything. I think that's partly why baking and knitting have become so hip - the return to traditional crafts and a simpler day. Too bad there's not really any going back. I'd like to see a return to sustainable ways, but without the sexism and repression of the olde days. Is it hip yet for boys to darn socks?

Maria :D, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:29 (twelve years ago) link

Boys are genetically predispositioned not to darn.

kenan, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:34 (twelve years ago) link

I forgot they found a chromosomally linked gene for aversion to needlework. Silly me.

Laurel, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:39 (twelve years ago) link

My two bits on this:

1. conservative types tend to not believe in systemic/complex causation rather than direct causation. (i.e. you're poor cuz you're lazy and it's your own fault and responsibility, not b/c you're in a system that's fucked)

2. american politics are extremely tribal right now, and agreeing with anything of this stuff is akin to casting your lot in with the dirty hippies. Plus, empiric & objective science has been attacked enough lately so that you can project your political thinking onto scientists, since scientists are all biased and only want a certain political output, and want to silence all dissenting opinions.

It's kinda fun how it's a big shitpile of these folks suddenly seeing the validity of debate, an inability or deliberate decision not to understand how science actually works, and disingeniousness in wanting to put forth a "serious alternative answer," as opposed to trying to scramble around for anything to cudgel the other side.

It's a lot like the intelligent design folks who want their shit taught alongside evolutionary biology as equally valid, yet spend all their money on shit-stirring p.r. instead of actually producing any research(check the budget of Seattle's Discovery Institute), and indeed openly attack those(sincerely interested or not) who want them to publish their research so it can be checked out. The authoritarian folks are now battling the authoritative folks(the ones who actually know their shit and can call others on it).

kingfish, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:13 (twelve years ago) link

In other words, that traitorous hypocrite Gore and those dirty america-hating hippies are fer it, the Leaders I trust aren't and tell me I shouldn't be either, so i'm agin' it.

That kinda thing.

kingfish, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:15 (twelve years ago) link

This is becoming less and less of a left vs right wing phenonmenon, as shown by the number of posts on The Corner (like those by Jonah Goldberg) acknowledging that global warming is real. The ones who believe simply distrust Gore-ist alarmism (OMIGOD MILWAUKEE WILL BE UNDERWATER IN 20 YRS).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:25 (twelve years ago) link

But there's still plenty of folks who attack Gore just for being Gore, which is a political thing, not with the science of it; see all the increased attacks & talking points in the last two days.

hell, there's some douche on Ed Schultz's show right now going off on him.

kingfish, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:12 (twelve years ago) link


g®▲Ðұ, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 21:18 (twelve years ago) link


g®▲Ðұ, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 22:19 (twelve years ago) link

Things I've heard people say:

"Don't get me started on environmentalists! Soon denying global warming'll be like denying the holocaust. It'll be all "How dare you say it doesn't exist blah blah" (same bloke blamed "this PC world in which we live" for the rise in health and safety measures - my boss blamed lawyers. I think I agree with my boss)

"They ask me to switch off my TV instead of leaving it on standby, saying it saves energy, but have they considered that that so-called "wasted" energy is actually helping to heat my house?"

the next grozart, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:23 (twelve years ago) link

These are also the kind of people who have an incredibly high suspicion of scientists, doctors and other professionals. "What's he talking about?! These people! He's not a proper scientist!" etc.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:26 (twelve years ago) link

"The cost of recycling is actually greater than the damage done"

the next grozart, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:27 (twelve years ago) link

Recycling IS very expensive and energy-intensive, though

How about Ken Livingstone, eh??

Cleaning up the Big Smoke: Livingstone plans to cut carbon emissions by 60%

and presumably some of the experience gained with this long-term initiative can be imparted to Venezuela through Ken's expertise-in-exchange-for-cheap-oil-for-poor-Londoners deal he struck with Chavez:

Livingstone seals Venezuelan fuel deal

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:53 (twelve years ago) link


blueski, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 13:08 (twelve years ago) link

follow up information to all those attacks against Gore over the last two day, from the " Tennessee Center for Policy Research" to every rightwing radio show and blogger out there

kingfish, Thursday, 1 March 2007 00:21 (twelve years ago) link

I suspect the biggest reason is that too many people have been preaching catastrophe from too many angles for too long. People are incurious about all sorts of subjects that could be deemed vital or essential. Picking "humans cause global warming" as a topic is really kind of pointless, unless you happen to be a big believer in it. If it's your dogma, then it suddenly it's unreasonable that others don't share your enthusiasm, wonder, or abject fear. Abortion, Iraq, Putin whoring himself around the Middle East, poverty, saving the whales...everyone's got a cause that someone else doesn't care about.

And really, you can't blame people for being at least a little bit jaded, non-plussed, or even cynical on this topic.

Dandy Don Weiner, Thursday, 1 March 2007 01:35 (twelve years ago) link

Ah......sure I can.

peepee, Sunday, 4 March 2007 15:07 (twelve years ago) link

......so we're only capable to worry about one cause?

peepee, Sunday, 4 March 2007 15:09 (twelve years ago) link

we can have as many causes (and crisis) as we want. Some have many, some have few. People have jammed their heads in the sand for eons for a variety of issues.

Dandy Don Weiner, Sunday, 4 March 2007 15:35 (twelve years ago) link

But then why choosing to jam their heads with such an energetic response against it?

peepee, Sunday, 4 March 2007 15:48 (twelve years ago) link

Instead of consulting a message board of what amounts to like minded people on this subject, maybe it would be more productive to sit down with these people and ask them why it is they think the way they do. That way, you wouldn't have to speculate. Maybe it's your approach to the subject that makes them wave you off. Maybe they'd be willing to consider your perspective on different terms. Are you out to change their mind or simply expose them because you think they are idiots? How is it "energetic" to merely refuse to consider possibilities of humans causing global warming? Sounds pretty passive to me.

Dandy Don Weiner, Sunday, 4 March 2007 16:26 (twelve years ago) link


I'm consulting a message board right now, because I'm at home, and the two people who live in this house have questions, and y'all MIGHT have some insight.

I do not argue with these people. I am calm and non-judgemental with them. I ask them questions. The thing that always gets me , though, is a lack of willingness to read something, or watch something, etc. I get along with these people. We talk in a friendly manner about all kinds of things everyday.

I have asked them why they're so bitterly opposed to the concept, and they usually have no answer except "It's a bunch of bull!", as if they'd rather not discuss it unless we're in agreement that it is a bunch of bull.

Dan, please don't project those nasty traits onto me.

(Am I comming across in a nasty way on this thread?)

peepee, Sunday, 4 March 2007 16:36 (twelve years ago) link

Morrison has previously argued, repeatedly, that our strategy for climate change is to "meet and beat" emissions targets. (He also strategises on meeting them by gutting targets at international conferences, and offshoring our emissions.)


The fires themselves are exacerbating global warming, too, with fire-induced thunderstorms pumping soot, ash and chemicals into the upper atmosphere. Satellite-based estimates of greenhouse-gas emissions from the fires show they may be contributing the equivalent of a typical year’s worth of Australia’s emissions from burning fossil fuels.

^ From a Washington Post story on how a new "megafire" (formed when two merely enormous fires joined, at the Snowy Mountains in NSW) is larger than New York City.

The estimate on animals killed has now been raised from half a billion to over a billion.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, 11 January 2020 23:21 (two weeks ago) link

Murdoch paper, the herald sun has got bored with the fires, only two page on the fires and it’s all about recovery, nothing on the mega fires merging. Of course there’s the letters page a peta credlin in which, remarkably, there has been a simultaneous change in th language of the knuckle draggers from ‘back-burning’ and ‘management’ to ‘prescribed burning’. As I the state government hasn’t completed its ‘prescribed burning’.

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a newly woke Andre Bolt whenever he gets back from whatever seal clubbing holiday he is currently on.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 11 January 2020 23:21 (two weeks ago) link

"Police are now working on the premise arson is to blame for much of the devastation caused this bushfire season. A strike force will investigate whether blazes were deliberately lit, and bring those responsible to justice."

1.2 million hectares have burnt in Victoria so far. 385 of those (or 0.03%) have been officially attributed to suspicious circumstances.

(I can't find more current figures right now, but as of the beginning of December - a week before this thread revive - 10% of forest in NSW national parks had burnt, 20% of World Heritage-listed land in the Blue Mountains had burnt - before major fires, let alone a megafire, let alone coal seam fires, had even started in the area - and rainforests that have never caught fire in known history had burnt, destroying entire histories of biodiversity.)

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 12 January 2020 07:39 (two weeks ago) link

One can only hope that some editors and ScoMo himself are arrested for waisting police time.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 12 January 2020 07:52 (two weeks ago) link

A dozen examples of rigorously debunked climate denialism from that one Murdoch paper

And a substantial thread specifically debunking the unsigned editorial from yesterday:

Okay. I can't help it. I'm sick. I'm addicted. I have to do a line-by-line breakdown of The @Australian's mind-blowing editorial.

Somebody help me. Rescue me from the abyss. Whisk me from oblivion, I am spent. This is so WILD. pic.twitter.com/bpTcVnWfAi

— Ketan Joshi (@KetanJ0) January 11, 2020

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 12 January 2020 21:59 (two weeks ago) link

fuckin immigrants

The second-most liked comment on the editorial blames immigrants for accepting climate science??

Every single one of the top most-liked comments re-hash denialist tropes.

The Oz is reassuring itself here. It's a massive self-help therapy session, squeezing its eyes shut. pic.twitter.com/ia5ZQ3XMAe

— Ketan Joshi (@KetanJ0) January 11, 2020

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 12 January 2020 22:00 (two weeks ago) link

The relentless spread of the #bushfires down the Australian east coast over the past four months #AustraliaFire #BushfireAustralia

(#DigitalEarthAU Hotspots data from Sep 3 2019 to today; full screen recommended) pic.twitter.com/50XLhMzTmh

— Dr Robbi Bishop-Taylor (@EarthObserved) January 7, 2020

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 12 January 2020 22:56 (two weeks ago) link


Innovations that improve life. For business, for society and for each individual. This is Ingenuity for life.

Also Siemens:

"We heard a lot of protest about our involvement in a monstrous new coal mine that might straight-up destroy Australia, if not the entire biosphere, so we asked one LNP member what to do."

The Australian people clearly voted to support Adani at the federal election in May 2019, especially in regional Queensland. It would be an insult to the working people of Australia and the growing needs of India to bow to the pressure of anti-Adani protestors.

"Also, if we don't provide this infrastructure, another company will, so it literally makes no difference whatsoever whether we do or not. Suck our balls, planet."

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 13 January 2020 00:00 (two weeks ago) link

"The government secretly abolished the native people's ability to control or live on their own land" = "the Wangan and Jagalingou peoples have 100% approved this foreign coal mine on their land!" - former Auschwitz contractors who used forced labour, today.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 13 January 2020 00:05 (two weeks ago) link

Bezos has announced that Amazon will donate $690,000 to bushfire relief in services, if agencies and government services switch their operations to AWS storage.

Metallica donated $750,000 in money. P!nk donated $500,000. An instagram sex worker raised $700,000 in donations in exchange for nude selfies.

Amazon paid $20 million tax on $2 billion revenue in Australia last year. Bezos personally donated $10,000,000 to an NRA-lobbying Super PAC in Septmber 2018.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 13 January 2020 03:02 (two weeks ago) link

jeff bezos start selling yr nude selfies on amazon marketplace u coward

que pasa picasso (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 13 January 2020 11:08 (two weeks ago) link

why buy the pork when hackers gave away his hog for free

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 13 January 2020 11:47 (two weeks ago) link

meanwhile, in the world of high finance

This headline is absolute bullshit and the article itself proves it.

Moreover, what a coincidence it is that the only concrete claim they make is that they’re getting out of coal when coal investments are down 75% since 2015 and insurers are no longer backing the industry. pic.twitter.com/SQEE8NfsSb

— David Weiner (@daweiner) January 14, 2020

que pasa picasso (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 January 2020 15:39 (two weeks ago) link

And here's a thread of Morrison on TV an hour ago explaining that this is the new normal

Scotty has spent the week pushing the line that we need to rely on "resilience and adaptation." It's impossible to change our policies of setting fire to the planet, or to reduce carbon emissions, so we need to muster up the good Aussie spirit and just get used to everything being on fire.

Also Scott Morrison:

The Coalition’s decision to axe funding to a climate change adaptation research body in 2017 has left Australia “not well positioned” to deal with fires, the “silent killer” of drought and other global heating impacts, its director has said.

Jean Palutikof, the director of the National Climate Change Adaptation Research Facility (NCCARF), told Guardian Australia the decision to discontinue funding in 2017 – when Scott Morrison was treasurer – had hollowed out the research community and “the capacity to take action on climate change is smaller than it was decade ago”.

The research facility at Griffith University was established in 2008 under the Rudd government and continued under the Abbott government with $9m over three years in the 2014 budget.

According to the environment department, the body has produced 144 adaptation research projects since 2008 with a total of $56.3m in federal funding.

But in 2017, the Coalition gave the body just $600,000 to continue its existing online platforms that inform decision makers seeking to adapt to changes in climate, with no ongoing federal funding from 2018.

Palutikof said the funding cut had forced it to axe conferences for researchers and community workshops informing business, local government and citizens about their exposure to climate risk.

Palutikof warned that – although bushfire cooperative research centres have continued to receive funding – bushfire is “not the only risk”, citing drought and other natural disasters such as floods.

“I worry if it starts to rain and bushfires cease to be an immediate risk some money will be pumped in and then we’ll forget about it,” she said. “The government will call it adaptation and resilience but people will be left in the same vulnerable state they were when these bushfires hit.”

Ebony Bennett, the Australia Institute deputy director, said the decision to cut the NCCARF’s adaptation funding was “shortsighted” and “typical of the Coalition approach to climate policy”.

“Any economist will tell you an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure,” she said. “The government’s new embrace of adaptation and resilience is welcome, but it’s the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach.

“To reduce the amount of gas and coal mined and burned in Australia is the [better] response … to prevent hotter and drier summers in future.”

Labor’s climate spokesman, Mark Butler, said: “The Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison governments have cut funding for significant adaptation work at [science agency] CSIRO, completely de-funded the NCCARF and produced a national disaster risk reduction framework that failed to take climate change seriously.

“The 2017 review of climate change policies completely excluded climate adaptation.”

Labor’s criticism comes as the government held roundtables in Canberra to discuss the response to the bushfire crisis at which Ley met wildlife experts and Andrews met scientific organisations.

Suzanne Milthorpe, national environment laws campaigner at the Wilderness Society, said the wildlife roundtable had seen “strong recognition that we can’t go back to business as usual”.

“Australia was already the extinction nation, the bushfire crisis has exacerbated that severely,” she said. “We need not just to return to pre-bushfire levels but to aim for health and resilience and against further shock.

“This is an unprecedented catastrophe – the first at this scale – but it won’t be the last.”

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 23:20 (two weeks ago) link

are lachlan etc any better than rupert or has it gone beyond such pittances

― mookieproof, Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:55 PM (five days ago)

James is better but has had his independence broken many times over the decades since Rawkus

James Murdoch claims he has never watched Succession, the drama series that documents the professional and personal rebellions of a billionaire media family suspiciously similar to his own. But his comments attacking the family business’s record on climate crisis coverage – which blindsided other parts of the family – suggest he may have picked up a few pointers from the HBO show.

The declaration that he and his wife, Kathryn, felt “frustration with some of the News Corp and Fox coverage” of the climate crisis, particularly the “ongoing denial among the news outlets in Australia, given obvious evidence to the contrary”, focused an awkward light on the family’s businesses – but could help James differentiate himself from his father, Rupert, and brother, Lachlan.

He has established his bold liberal bona fides by *checks notes* donating to Pete Buttigieg, joining the board of Tesla, and buying a stake in Vice. And his wife "has used Twitter to share links to stories about investment company BlackRock putting climate change at the centre of its investment strategy and a story in the Murdoch-owned New York Post suggesting conservatives have answers to climate change."

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 23:33 (two weeks ago) link

"resilience and adaptation."

This garbage is everywhere today. Along with the nuclear nuts getting invited to all the meetings.

We will be plugging coal/nuclear plants straight into the desalinators so we can continue to grow cotton.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 16 January 2020 03:10 (one week ago) link

It occurred to me looking at Au election maps that most of these fires have been in electoral districts won by the National Party. Has McCormack been similarly useless?

McCormack has today announced a new policy of the Morrison/McCormack government to lower vehicular emissions: reducing speed limits in areas used by pedestrians, cyclist and the chronically ill.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, 18 January 2020 05:43 (one week ago) link


Labor leader Anthony Albanese has backed the nation's $70 billion coal export industry, agreeing with Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton that ending local exports would only increase global emissions.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Saturday, 18 January 2020 06:06 (one week ago) link

We have magic carbon free coal here in Australia.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 18 January 2020 07:46 (one week ago) link

was reminded how campaigners, scientists and popular fiction in Australia have been predicting these outcomes for forty solid years


the Sydney Morning Herald, 1987

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 19 January 2020 04:50 (one week ago) link

yeah but those arsonists tho

At least we can all agree that it's anthropogenic.

pomenitul, Sunday, 19 January 2020 09:11 (one week ago) link

An LNP government ruled under PM John Howard for eleven years from 2006 to 2007 (more than half of that due to Howard's 2001 campaign lie that brown people drowned children, which led to the series of concentration camps on which Australia continues to spend billion$). Even before being elected, Labor PM Kevin Rudd and state & territory leaders commissioned a climate study by economics professor Ross Garnaut.


"Recent projections of fire weather suggest that fire seasons will start earlier, end slightly later, and generally be more intense.

"This effect increases over time, but should be directly observable by 2020."

By... 2020, you say? Sounds like some science fiction bullshit.

"the weight of scientific evidence tells us that Australians are facing risks of damaging climate change".

"The risk can be substantially reduced by strong, effective and early action by all major economies. Australia will need to play its full proportionate part in global action. As one of the developed countries, its full part will be relatively large, and involve major early changes to established economic structure."

One of the report's key recommendations was the implementation of an emissions trading scheme. Rudd failed to enact a (pissweak) ETS, but an effective one was established by his successor Julia Gillard in 2011, in collaboration with the Greens.

Garnaut calculated that the overall cost to the Australian economy of tackling climate change, modelled under CO2 concentrations od both 450ppm and 550ppm, was manageable and in the order of 0.1-0.2 per cent of annual economic growth to *checks notes* 2020.

(In 2013, Rudd knifed Gillard, became PM again for a couple of months, and then lost an election to the Mad Monk, Tony Abbott, who axed the ETS and eradicated the Climate Change Commission.)

In 2009, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation also released a report on effects of climate change ar current rates.


Obvious disaster fantasies - even if climate change were real, surely we wouldn't be seeing changes like that as soon as 2020.

In 2014, Abbott cut $140 million in funding from CSIRO, resulting in 500 job losses, particularly in the area of climate research.

What would Professor Garnaut say if he'd been in any way accurate 12 years ago, and was thus worth listening to now?

"Although things are bad, they will keep on getting worse if the concentrations of greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere keep increasing."

The report said there could be a 300 per cent increase in the number of days with extreme fire weather by 2067.

"It's in the interest of the whole of humanity that we move promptly towards zero net emissions," he said.

"Australia has a stronger interest in that than any other developed country because we are the most vulnerable of all developed countries.

"Australia will also be the biggest economic beneficiary of effective global mitigation because we have the best renewable energy resources and the best opportunities for capturing carbon in our geological and biological landscapes."

He's probably just looking to get another government research contract, though. Selfish prick.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 19 January 2020 09:21 (one week ago) link

from 2006 1996 to 2007

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 19 January 2020 09:22 (one week ago) link

Have you noticed that every Facebook group is now about #AustraliaBushfires?

Another poster, Daniel Fanning, said he sarcastically wrote "please remember that climate change is the only factor in the fires" in VCE DiscussionSpace (a group about final high school exams in the state of Victoria) to challenge the way the group's 67,000 members were thinking about the fires.

"While I agree that [climate change] can exacerbate it, many people are claiming it to be the singular factor while ignoring other contributing factors such as arson."

Fanning doesn't think it matters that the group was created as a place to talk about study notes and practice questions, not politics.

"I feel it's a good place for people to voice their opinion and partake in discussion with people of a similar age. I don't mind the negative comments and feel they're enjoyable to read regardless."

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Sunday, 19 January 2020 19:43 (one week ago) link

Deputy Prime Minister (in November) said that only "raving inner city greenies" believed in climate change, today has said that it's really meddling kids responsible - “Most of these fires are being caused by little Lucifers running around with matches and firestarters and creating havoc" - in response to the state's Energy & Environment Minister noting that this is the hottest year in state history, surpassing last year, which was the hottest year in state history, and that record drought is a cause of extreme bushfires, which scientists predicted.

― insecurity bear (sic), Friday, December 13, 2019 9:09 AM (one month ago)

Yesterday, the (NSW) state Energy & Environment Minister told Sky News that "some of the most senior members of the government" were raising concerns about the Coalition's climate change policies.

"And they are not moderates. They are from the right of the party," Mr Kean said. When asked if this group included cabinet members, Mr Kean said: "in cabinet, absolutely".

"This is because their communities are crying out. They are listening to their communities saying 'We want you to protect our environment.' "

Mr Kean said there was "widespread support for the Prime Minister to take strong action when it comes to climate change".

"I understand a group of moderate MPs and MPs right across the party, from different states and different factions, all want to see decisive and responsible action."

Today, Scott Morrison responded on multiple TV and radio apearances "lol who the fuck are you, shut up and sit down, I'm the Prime Minister and you're just from a state government, you little pissant."

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 01:22 (one week ago) link

Morrison won't even go on the ABC, but he calls in to the right-wing talk radio station in Sydney

The show that Morrison regularly calls in to has been off air for summer holidays, but came back today. The host had some tough words for Scotty after his inaction and lying about his second taxpayer-funded overseas holiday in five months:


Ray Hadley also hasn't tipped his hand on climate change one oway or the other, previously. But he's getting a bit bloody peeved that people are now saying climate change is gonna happen, when they previously predicted "global warming" and "sea levels rising" and those eventually never happened!!!!!

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 09:14 (one week ago) link


Scott not only agrees, he furthermore advises Hadley twice that he is right.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 09:15 (one week ago) link

bloody climate change isn't real! it's all underage arsonists

meanwhile in Canberra (where the federal government is located but Scotty won't live and commutes from a taxpayer-funded harbourside mansionin Sydney instead), it's still a few weeks before the government comes back from its own summer holiday. Let's see some video from this afternoon.

Hail destroying the trees at Parliament House.. poor gardeners pic.twitter.com/bHEES1yhHy

— Tamsin Rose (@tamsinroses) January 20, 2020

Yeah it really hailed.. pic.twitter.com/iEfG7iQ0ST

— Tamsin Rose (@tamsinroses) January 20, 2020

very fucking cunning arsonists, changing their tactics to throw cops off the scent

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 09:27 (one week ago) link

(late last week, some mild outrage sprung up about the Liberal (tory) government directing $100 million in sporting grants to projects exclusively in Liberal seats, with Morrison affirming that no disciplinary action will be taken against the minister who misappropriated directed the funds.

Scott Morrison's local soccer club boasted about funding weeks before grants announced

The president of the Lilli Pilli soccer club, Greg Storey, is director of an online male underwear store who was picked by Mr Morrison for a government board role when the now-Prime Minister was treasurer in 2018.

His five-year role with the Payments System Board required him to attend four meetings last year. He will be paid more than $300,000 over five years.

what a coincide-

Mr Morrison said when launching the clubhouse last year that he and Mr Storey had known each other since before he was an MP.


don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 09:33 (one week ago) link

While the focus in on the Southern Hemisphere, I took a look at Moscow's weather


Every day in 2020 has been above 0C at some point. There's been a couple of lows at night of -6C, but most the lows are around -1C

2011-2019 had lows of -18C down to -30C, with very few days above 0C

cherry blossom, Monday, 20 January 2020 09:59 (one week ago) link

2011-2019 Januarys

cherry blossom, Monday, 20 January 2020 10:00 (one week ago) link

Hail at the National Film and Sound Archive HQ in Acton, Canberra 'punctured the roof like bullets'. @canberratimes pic.twitter.com/qIq1zqeIzq

— Tim the Yowie Man (@TimYowie) January 20, 2020

is this good

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 17:50 (one week ago) link

seems bad tbh


Parliament House, two weeks ago / today.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 20 January 2020 22:50 (one week ago) link

TBF really big hail, stand up paddle boarders being eaten by crocodiles and massive corruption scandals are what the news in January is meant to be about.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 21 January 2020 00:48 (one week ago) link

Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

^ (abstract of an academic article)

Buzzfeed Asked All 77 Government MPs For Their Views On Climate Science. Two Got Back To Us

320 nectar bats were killed by hail , and more injured, in one Canberra park yesterday. These dudes could have pollinated regrowing forest / bush in the coming years, if the Territory gets one or towo without fires.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Tuesday, 21 January 2020 09:22 (one week ago) link

oh no, here's some really sad news :(

BHP, the world’s single largest mining company based on market capitalisation, has an issue with the Australian bushfires. It’s not that millions of hectares have burned, that an estimated billion-plus animals have lost their lives, or that the nation at large is currently breathing some of the most heavily polluted air in the world. It’s not that dozens of people have died or that thousands have been displaced. The issue BHP has with the Australian bushfires is that they’re damaging coal production.

The multinational mining, metals, and petroleum company claimed in an end-of-year operational review that smoke and dust from the fires had negatively affected the air quality at their coal mines in New South Wales, the most populous state in Australia and the one that’s been most widely affected by bushfires. If the air quality continues to deteriorate, they added, “then operations could be constrained further in the second half of the [fiscal] year [ending June 30].”

These constraints have thus far included machinery operating slower than usual as a result of reduced visibility, and staff taking leave throughout December to make sure their houses weren’t burning down — leading to reduced coal production.

Jeremy Moss, a professor from the University of New South Wales, pointed out last year that, "BHP's emissions from its global fossil fuel operations alone were more than the whole of Australia's domestic emissions… If BHP were a country, the products it produces would cause emissions greater than those emitted by 25 million Australians."

Australia exports about AU$67 billion (US$46 billion) worth of coal every year, and is the sixth-largest producer of fuels that release carbon, according to The New York Times. What’s more, a 2019 report from the United Nations Environment Program found that these emissions are expected to double by 2030.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 21:33 (one week ago) link

tfw the catastrophic side-effects of unchecked capitalism start interfering with your ability to do more capitalism

FWIW, a beautifully written first-person account from my SIL about living through the conflagration.


Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 22:03 (one week ago) link

Three American firefighters died in an air tanker crash in NSW this morning.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 06:16 (six days ago) link

Parliament House, two weeks ago / today.

Two hours ago, fire reached a recycling plant nine miles / 15km from here. Toxic black smoke is spreading through the area, and the Canberra airport has been closed.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 06:27 (six days ago) link

It rained in Melbourne, washing smoke and dust into the Yarra river.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 07:05 (six days ago) link

Scotty claimed today that Australia's emissions will be cut by 42% over the next ten years!

(He has no policy changes or plans of any kind to reach this made-up target, the Department Of Environment's best projections are for 4%, and nearly 80% of Australia's 2020 permitted emissions have been generated *checks notes* ...already, by ... *checks notes again* ...the bushfires.)

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 07:49 (six days ago) link

Maybe he plans to pray it away.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 January 2020 15:55 (six days ago) link

As repeatedly noted, Morrison is a Pentecostal worshipper with a separate personal mentor who runs the largest prosperity gospel grift in the world. By inference, he believes God wants to destroy the planet, and that death is God's punishment for being poor. Coal companies give you hundreds of thousands of dollars if you give them $27 billion in subsidies and the ability to stop agriculture and destroy the homes of traditional residents. Why would you pray that away?

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 19:24 (six days ago) link

The producer of the Jersey Boys movie also says that the US has somehow reduced emissions more than any other country, despite pulling out of the Paris Agreement, and that divesting from fossil fuels won't do anything to reduce emissions.

When asked how that would affect the U.S. economic model, Mnuchin took a swipe at Greta Thunberg.

“Is she the chief economist? Who is she? I’m confused,” he said. Then following a brief pause, he said “it was a joke.”

“After she goes and studies economics in college, she can come back and explain that to us,” he concluded.

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Thursday, 23 January 2020 20:45 (six days ago) link

“Economics,” you say pic.twitter.com/on8C0h69sm

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) January 23, 2020

mookieproof, Thursday, 23 January 2020 20:58 (six days ago) link

Parliament House, two weeks ago / today.

― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:50 AM (one week ago)

On Monday, an army helicopter was on reconnaissance to clear landing zones in a National Park next to Canberra, in case a fire started and drop zones were needed to fight it.

The landing light on the bottom of the helicopter started a fire in this nature preserve that spread by 400ha an hour, and was at 7,900 hectares by Tuesday evening.

Fire in Canberra, Australia’s capital. Looking south over Lake Burley Griffin. Parliament House is in the left of the shot. pic.twitter.com/masgYPEOSp

— Ash Andersen (@TheAshAndersen) January 28, 2020

RAW timelapse footage of the last few hours - Orroral Valley fire -Out of control #canberra #australia #AustraliaBurning #AustralianFires pic.twitter.com/akBjC8AIof

— Martin Ollman (@martin_o) January 28, 2020

The government is still on summer holiday, and has not returned to Canberra in nearly two months.

Also in Canberra:

Bezos has announced that Amazon will donate $690,000 to bushfire relief in services, if agencies and government services switch their operations to AWS storage.

― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, January 13, 2020 2:02 PM (two weeks ago)

"Tech giant Amazon has apologised after a technical upset caused a website providing crucial emergency bushfire information to crash.

For several hours on Thursday afternoon, the website Canberrans are meant to go to for emergency information was taken offline as a dangerous fire threatened properties south of Canberra Airport."

don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 21:15 (yesterday) link

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