_Avatar_, directed by James Cameron

am not really gonna dispute that. but if avatar wins best screenplay then every screenwriter in hollywood needs to slash their wrists

if AVATAR wins best screenplay a lot of aspiring screenwriters might gnash their teeth but most working screenwriters would be delighted to see that over tired pseudorelevant "sophisticated" fare like UP IN THE AIR.

not every film with a cracking screenplay is middlebrow and arty fwiw

True dat. But most of the ones that win Best Original Screenplay are.

2008 - MILK
2007 - JUNO
2006 - LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE
2005 - CRASH
2004 - ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND
2003 - LOST IN TRANSLATION
2002 - TALK TO HER
2001 - GOSFORD PARK
2000 - ALMOST FAMOUS

after crash, everything is denouement

Best Original Screenplay aka Things White People Like

(okay ETERNAL SUNSHINE is grebt but come on)

protip: Pixar always gets nominated, never wins

comparing Avatar to one shitty movie does not make it a worthy winner. there's a helluva lot of other stuff out there that didn't have me cringing approximately once every two minutes

urgh that is a kinda revolting list, but most of those are NOT very arty, and eternal sunshine was surely NOT that middlebrow? it was an art-movie that kinda transcended its origins? maybe?

who cares about the stupid oscars

(gosford park was pretty good altho when you work out whodunnit it stops being particularly exciting, although it's not about suspense it's about CLASS obv)

dude i have no idea what your definition of "arty" is, but that list is like 1000% fitting my description (ok maybe not almost famous)

who cares about the stupid oscars

― latebloomer, Wednesday, January 6, 2010 12:15 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm. problem no. 1 with the oscars is that people pay attention to them and put credence in them. they should be more like emmys or grammys where no one gives a shit and they are meaningless.

LJ I agree on ETERNAL SUNSHINE. I remember reading a draft of CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND back in 1998 and thinking "this is the best thing I have ever read and it will never get made" so yes I am a big Charlie Kaufman stan but seriously a moving piece of meticulous craft like RATATOUILLE kicks all kinds of JUNO's oh look at my kicky dialogue ass. And I like kicky dialogue!

i am 100% sure ratatouille does this! but there's a difference between well-crafted, well-paced screenplays such as that and clanky platitude-filled cringefests such as the script of avatar. and there's a difference between irritating hyperactive knowing dialogue and, say, bringing up baby

or network! now THERE'S a motherfucking SCREENPLAY.

anybody starts talking smack about bringing up baby and i will CUT YOU

nearly all of those screenplay winners listed are way better than Avatar.

I had forgotten that Titanic wasn't even nominated for Best Screenplay. Guess I was thinking of Return of the King (which won adap).

i am saying that it has one of the all-time greatest screenplays, please parse my words better

looking down the 'best screenplay' list it is amazing just how many shoddy crowd-pleasing winners there have been. and fuck me 'four weddings and a funeral' was nominated o_O

but 'Network' won and that is all that matters

hahahaha Amélie was nominated too, wd everyone

btw my point in all this is less that AVATAR deserves Best Original Screenplay Evar than that is deserves a nom (hell, GLADIATOR got a nom) and that ignoring the craft element fundamentally misunderstands the purpose of a screenplay.

obv the best screenplays transcend craft (e.g. CASABLANCA is a classic piece of hackwork... and yet!), but no screenplay that fails in its craft should be held up as a model for the youth of athens.

If there's one thing all those above films have in common it's that they're still mostly just people sitting around talking (in varying settings). Scanning past winners, I don't see a single one with extensive action/gun battle sequences (which, if well-done, are the epitome of "craft" ... which is why they have technical awards; "Avatar" editing/sound is a lock!). Best Original Screenplay is not the same as Best Story or Best Storytelling. It's often really just the Most/Cleverist/Showiest Talking award, which is why "In the Loop" deserves this one.

My Dinner With Na'vi

action/gun battle sequences get honored in Best Screenplay, Adapted

loooool true

In The Loop deserves it most of all for being one of the 3 or 4 funniest British movies ever made. Not saying much, I know, but it brought enormous lols in the '09.

Tarantino beats the Coens for that award; killing Natzees makes old Jews less nervous than pot mitzvahs and unhelpful rabbis.

yah i knew you werent talking shit about bringing up baby lj, i was just warning other contrarian mofackeys

xxxxxxxposts

Tarantino beats the Coens for that award; killing Natzees makes old Jews less nervous than pot mitzvahs and unhelpful rabbis.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, January 6, 2010 1:45 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ya hollywood has always been famously terrified of marijuana use

"Avatar" editing/sound is a lock!

probably, but it isn't on a par with 'hurt locker'. i don't get rogermexico's point because this film had a shitty screenplay and it's plot was just pochahontas. it's not a great achievement to use a well-worn plot only with shitty and obvious war on terror references and lines like "YOU'RE NOT IN KANSAS ANY MORE... YOU'RE ON PANDORA" plus add completely stupid bits of business like michelle rodriguez firing on her own side. watertight? more like WATERWORLD.

keep forgetting, but 'duplicity' would be my best orig screenplay after 'a serious man'.

who agrees that Enemy Mine was dope at least?

The Dennis Quaid/Iron Eagle guy joint?

Having seen "The Hurt Locker" three times now, I'm pretty much in agreement with the blurb on the box cover that calls it a near-perfect movie. Even a distracting Ralph Fiennes cn't bring it down, and the last shot is like a recruitment film flipped on its head into an ironic tragedy. Even that I'm inferring, because this may be the first war film I've ever seen that never quite says "war - bah!" or "war - yeah!" It just shows war, or at least one facet of it, and one can infer what one wants. Also, seriously gotta love Bigelow's rebirth as a scrappy indie auteur! I wonder if Cameron is even capable of making a small movie anymore, or if he ever was? Dream big, I guess.

my main point is that you're misweighting the criteria for evaluating a screenplay, so that's probably why the not-getting.

my corollary is that "stock" =/= cliché and "broad" =/= "dumb" and "doesn't lose the 7 year olds" trumps "keeps the sophisticates amused" when it comes to pictures that need to make a billi

Roger, I think you're confusing the criteria for making a good movie and making a billion dollars. Sure, there are certain beats one should/must hit to make bank. But those are not the same beats one needs to hit to tell a strong story with strong characters. Which is why all the top grossing films ever are pretty lacking in the depth department. And I say that as a 7-year old.

With a couple of outliers, of course:

Rank Title Worldwide Box Office
1. Titanic (1997) $1,835,300,000
2. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) $1,129,219,252
3. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) $1,060,332,628
4. Avatar (2009) $1,030,409,452
5. The Dark Knight (2008) $1,001,921,825
6. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) $968,657,891
7. Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (2007) $958,404,152
8. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2007) $937,000,866
9. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (2009) $933,956,980
10. Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) $922,379,000
11. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) $921,600,000
12. Jurassic Park (1993) $919,700,000
13. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2005) $892,194,397
14. Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs (2009) $887,073,705
15. Spider-Man 3 (2007) $885,430,303
16. Shrek 2 (2004) $880,871,036
17. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002) $866,300,000
18. Finding Nemo (2003) $865,000,000
19. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) $860,700,000
20. Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) $848,462,555

another thing the avatar screenplay fails to do is create compelling characters -- that's surely a traditional criterion? and also one used by other blockbusters. im not sure if you mean im misweighing evaluative criteria in general, or not getting those used by the oscars, but 'eternal sunshine' for my money was a worthy winner. i don't like many of the other picks but they are at least solid jobs of work. avatar is barely that.

even if you think it's well structured, the mid-section in particular is very tedious because no-one gives 1x fuck about sam worthington.

xpost

that list is essentially meaningless due to inflation.

If the Best Picture is not seen as a legit screenplay contender, the award usu goes to something considered clever (eg Woody Allen, Et Sunshine, The Usual Suspects, Pulp Fiction).

Yeah, the lack of memorable characters is definitely the movie / screenplay's biggest flaw. That, and the utter dopeyness of the Na'vi. xp

that list is essentially meaningless due to inflation

Yeah, and so is "Avatar"'s tally, since about $150-$200 mil of it has been 3-D surcharge. That's cheating! But I'd wager that list isn't, like, massively wrong, and that even accounting for inflation, the biggest box office hits globally have been FX-heavy action flicks.

It is super unlikely this is going to win a screenplay award but let's not kid ourselves; high-grossing movies win Academy awards.

"Titanic" won 11 out of 14 noms, "Lord of the Rings: Return of the Kings" swept all 11 categories it was nominated in, "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest" won 1 out of 4, "The Dark Knight" won 2 out of 8... you have to get to the Harry Potter movies before you start hitting ones that didn't win and the first one was nominated for 3 awards (and the #11 movie, "LOTR: The Two Towers", won 2 out of 6 nominations); hell, even "The Phantom Menace" was nominated for 3 Academy awards.

haha, how do you guys feel about 2xLPs on the best selling records of all time lists?

It's kinda crazy to think that I've seen only 6 of the top 20 highest grossing films (unadjusted) ever.

hahaha I have seen 19 of them

I've seen 10. Mind you I'll be seeing all the Potters soon enough.

time to get adjusted

Yeah, the only one I'm missing is the newest Potter and that's just because I was able to successfully distract my wife from noticing when it was in theaters.

seen four, but star wars part one was a pirated vhs so doesn't entirely count.

Actually I don't think I've seen the entirety of "Ice Age" so 18.5

i saw em all

http://www.youmakebunnycry.info/images/bleeding-eyes.jpg

a cool 9. jurassic park WINS the snap jagger poll

Before the current age of sound and fury, and after The Sound of Music and The Godfather -- something of a freak case since it was considered as a sort of art film in addition to being a pop smash -- the Academy shied away from giving Best Picture to huge hits until Titanic. eg, Annie Hall beat Star Wars, Chariots of Fire beat Raiders of the Lost Ark, Gandhi beat ET etc.

You guys know this is over $1 billion worldwide, yes?

Conceding that the list is meaningless without inflation adjustment, it's worth noting that out of the 20 top grossers, exactly 3 were not based on existing properties. Those three:

TITANIC (nom'd for seemingly everything except Best Original Screenplay)
AVATAR
FINDING NEMO (nom'd for Best Original Screenplay)

Pretty impressive achievement, no?

btw i do NOT agree that the 3D surcharge is cheating - people were willing to pay it to see this movie as it was meant to be seen. In fact, I'd much rather pay $17 to see this in 3D/IMAX than $11 to see it on a normal screen. Without 3D/IMAX it would be a much less enjoyable movie.

top 100 box office all time...adjusted for inflation:
1 Gone with the Wind MGM $1,485,028,000 $198,676,459 1939^
2 Star Wars Fox $1,309,179,000 $460,998,007 1977^
3 The Sound of Music Fox $1,046,753,000 $158,671,368 1965
4 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial Uni. $1,042,629,400 $435,110,554 1982^
5 The Ten Commandments Par. $962,850,000 $65,500,000 1956
6 Titanic Par. $943,342,300 $600,788,188 1997
7 Jaws Uni. $941,379,300 $260,000,000 1975
8 Doctor Zhivago MGM $912,395,600 $111,721,910 1965
9 The Exorcist WB $812,679,700 $232,671,011 1973^
10 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Dis. $801,150,000 $184,925,486 1937^
11 101 Dalmatians Dis. $734,391,800 $144,880,014 1961^
12 The Empire Strikes Back Fox $721,627,700 $290,475,067 1980^
13 Ben-Hur MGM $720,300,000 $74,000,000 1959
14 Return of the Jedi Fox $691,336,700 $309,306,177 1983^
15 The Sting Uni. $655,200,000 $156,000,000 1973
16 Raiders of the Lost Ark Par. $647,842,600 $242,374,454 1981^
17 Jurassic Park Uni. $633,612,900 $357,067,947 1993
18 The Graduate AVCO $628,949,700 $104,901,839 1967^
19 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Fox $623,469,700 $431,088,301 1999
20 Fantasia Dis. $610,369,600 $76,408,097 1941^
21 The Godfather Par. $580,080,900 $134,966,411 1972^
22 Forrest Gump Par. $577,310,300 $329,694,499 1994
23 Mary Poppins Dis. $574,636,400 $102,272,727 1964^
24 The Lion King BV $567,653,700 $328,541,776 1994^
25 Grease Par. $565,374,900 $188,389,888 1978^
26 Thunderball UA $549,780,000 $63,595,658 1965
27 The Dark Knight WB $545,973,300 $533,345,358 2008
28 The Jungle Book Dis. $541,547,400 $141,843,612 1967^
29 Sleeping Beauty Dis. $534,169,000 $51,600,000 1959^
30 Shrek 2 DW $522,224,300 $441,226,247 2004
31 Ghostbusters Col. $519,870,000 $238,632,124 1984^
32 Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid Fox $518,600,200 $102,308,889 1969
33 Love Story Par. $514,486,400 $106,397,186 1970
34 Spider-Man Sony $510,712,900 $403,706,375 2002
35 Independence Day Fox $509,126,200 $306,169,268 1996
36 Home Alone Fox $497,846,400 $285,761,243 1990
37 Pinocchio Dis. $495,414,500 $84,254,167 1940^
38 Cleopatra (1963) Fox $493,798,400 $57,777,778 1963
39 Beverly Hills Cop Par. $493,552,600 $234,760,478 1984
40 Goldfinger UA $487,305,000 $51,081,062 1964
41 Airport Uni. $485,917,900 $100,489,151 1970
42 American Graffiti Uni. $483,000,000 $115,000,000 1973
43 The Robe Fox $481,090,900 $36,000,000 1953
44 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest BV $475,018,500 $423,315,812 2006
45 Around the World in 80 Days UA $474,923,100 $42,000,000 1956
46 Bambi RKO $468,286,500 $102,247,150 1942^
47 Blazing Saddles WB $464,722,200 $119,500,000 1974
48 Batman WB $462,716,400 $251,188,924 1989
49 The Bells of St. Mary's RKO $461,176,500 $21,333,333 1945
50 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King NL $452,305,300 $377,027,325 2003
51 The Towering Inferno Fox $451,111,100 $116,000,000 1974
52 Spider-Man 2 Sony $442,166,800 $373,585,825 2004
53 My Fair Lady WB $441,000,000 $72,000,000 1964
54 The Greatest Show on Earth Par. $441,000,000 $36,000,000 1952
55 National Lampoon's Animal House Uni. $440,193,500 $141,600,000 1978^
56 The Passion of the Christ NM $438,830,600 $370,782,930 2004^
57 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith Fox $436,035,700 $380,270,577 2005
58 Back to the Future Uni. $434,022,300 $210,609,762 1985
59 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers NL $423,583,600 $341,786,758 2002^
60 The Sixth Sense BV $423,206,600 $293,506,292 1999
61 Superman WB $421,582,200 $134,218,018 1978
62 Tootsie Col. $418,244,000 $177,200,000 1982
63 Smokey and the Bandit Uni. $417,722,000 $126,737,428 1977
64 Finding Nemo BV $414,080,400 $339,714,978 2003
65 Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen P/DW $411,632,600 $402,111,870 2009
66 West Side Story MGM $411,381,600 $43,656,822 1961
67 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone WB $410,960,400 $317,575,550 2001
68 Lady and the Tramp Dis. $409,651,400 $93,602,326 1955^
69 Close Encounters of the Third Kind Col. $408,480,200 $132,088,635 1977^
70 Lawrence of Arabia Col. $407,069,100 $44,824,144 1962^
71 The Rocky Horror Picture Show Fox $404,760,300 $112,892,319 1975
72 Rocky UA $404,543,800 $117,235,147 1976
73 The Best Years of Our Lives RKO $404,250,000 $23,650,000 1946
74 The Poseidon Adventure Fox $403,529,400 $84,563,118 1972
75 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring NL $402,073,800 $314,776,170 2001^
76 Twister WB $401,957,700 $241,721,524 1996
77 Men in Black Sony $401,432,600 $250,690,539 1997
78 The Bridge on the River Kwai Col. $399,840,000 $27,200,000 1957
79 It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World MGM $395,984,300 $46,332,858 1963
80 Swiss Family Robinson Dis. $395,488,800 $40,356,000 1960
81 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest UA $394,587,400 $108,981,275 1975
82 M.A.S.H. Fox $394,578,900 $81,600,000 1970
83 Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Par. $393,466,200 $179,870,271 1984
84 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones Fox $392,993,300 $310,676,740 2002^
85 Mrs. Doubtfire Fox $387,230,200 $219,195,243 1993
86 Aladdin BV $385,451,300 $217,350,219 1992
87 Ghost Par. $378,269,400 $217,631,306 1990
88 Duel in the Sun Selz. $375,000,000 $20,408,163 1946
89 Avatar Fox $374,252,000 $367,536,685 2009
90 Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl BV $372,269,400 $305,413,918 2003
91 House of Wax WB $371,409,600 $23,750,000 1953
92 Rear Window Par. $370,107,400 $36,764,313 1954^
93 The Lost World: Jurassic Park Uni. $366,838,100 $229,086,679 1997
94 Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Par. $363,211,200 $197,171,806 1989
95 Spider-Man 3 Sony $359,520,000 $336,530,303 2007
96 Terminator 2: Judgment Day TriS $357,624,400 $204,843,345 1991
97 Sergeant York WB $353,705,500 $16,361,885 1941
98 How the Grinch Stole Christmas Uni. $353,585,200 $260,044,825 2000
99 Toy Story 2 BV $351,598,400 $245,852,179 1999^
100 Top Gun Par. $350,237,800 $176,786,701 1986
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