DREAMGIRLS (take 2)

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The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:28 (twelve years ago) link

dan i don't wanna jinx yr new thread but this can't be posted enough

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/344415889_971e89edf7_o.png

ZR (teenagequiet), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:30 (twelve years ago) link

;_;

FIN (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:33 (twelve years ago) link

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/158234521X.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

ZR (teenagequiet), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:33 (twelve years ago) link

Nice suit, Dan

VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:34 (twelve years ago) link

Dan might know what he's talking about, but you don't

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:34 (twelve years ago) link

Perry, stop trying to make a Dreamgirls thread happen! It's not going to happen!


Beth S. (Ex Leon), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:34 (twelve years ago) link

and that whole argument was irrelevant to my main point

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:35 (twelve years ago) link

nice hat gabbneb

VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:36 (twelve years ago) link

God, I thought that was the newly de-moustachio'd Chertoff

kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:59 (twelve years ago) link

Because Fenty looks soooooooooooooooooo much like Chertoff, in fact they're basically twin brothers.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6b/Twins_Poster.jpg/200px-Twins_Poster.jpg

Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:01 (twelve years ago) link

and actually, i was sort of making my main point there, which no one has contradicted

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:03 (twelve years ago) link

I know not of this Fenty.

kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:05 (twelve years ago) link

I'm just teasin' ya dude. At least you aren't crazy pants mchomeless lolz pretendin' Dan did not directly contradict him going on and on and on right here.

Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:06 (twelve years ago) link

i think gabbneb has a chance to win the argument this time!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:07 (twelve years ago) link

maybe if I start a "melisma" thread on ILM, people will talk about Dreamgirls?

horseshoe (horseshoe), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:08 (twelve years ago) link

is the sanbox dreamgirls thread worth reading? what did i miss?

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:08 (twelve years ago) link

x-post -- Within 50 posts it would be Lex talking about The Emancipation of Mimi and wondering who Judas Priest is.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:09 (twelve years ago) link

is the sanbox dreamgirls thread worth reading? what did i miss?
-- mahalo 4 ur kokua (goforgrad...), January 4th, 2007.

basically, gabbneb thinks Star Wars is a musical.

VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:10 (twelve years ago) link

hey there's a musical performance in the cantina!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:12 (twelve years ago) link

i always wondered why people said it was a space opera.

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:24 (twelve years ago) link

Actually gabbneb, I did address your point in a subsequent post talking about the ossification of musical genres.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:25 (twelve years ago) link

(Not that I wanted to rehash it here, hence my ;_; upthread. I knew this thread was going to get derailed but even I had my breath taken away by it being done by the very first post.)

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:27 (twelve years ago) link

DAN WHY WHY WHY

Laurel (Laurel), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:31 (twelve years ago) link

HEY GUYS, EDDIE MURPHY WAS AWESOME

A B C (sparklecock), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:38 (twelve years ago) link

I for one welcome our melisma-singing poperatic overlords.

The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:51 (twelve years ago) link

and I AM TELLLLLING YOUUUUUUUUUUUU
IIIIIII'MMMMMMM NOT POSTINGGGGG

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 January 2007 23:05 (twelve years ago) link

'streets of fire' for the '80s, 'south park' for the '90s.

spectre (gear), Thursday, 4 January 2007 23:20 (twelve years ago) link

Lee Ving = Cartman = ?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 4 January 2007 23:26 (twelve years ago) link

Just thought I'd jump in and say that the trailer gives no hint that the film's a musical.

Andrew (enneff), Friday, 5 January 2007 03:19 (twelve years ago) link

On stage no one can hear you scream.

DREAMGIRLS

It tells you 12/22/06

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 03:40 (twelve years ago) link

SAG nominations are out; "Dreamgirls" got nods for Best Ensemble, Best Supporting Actor (Murphy) and Best Supporting Actress (Hudson). From what I've read, the biggest buzz besides these two centers around Cate Blanchett and L. DiCaprio.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Friday, 5 January 2007 14:44 (twelve years ago) link

and they're not even IN dreamgirls!

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 5 January 2007 15:07 (twelve years ago) link

Some performances transcend a single film.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 15:07 (twelve years ago) link

I want to nominate Mark Ruffalo for his outstanding work in The Guns of Navarone.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:13 (twelve years ago) link

a lengthy blog debate...

http://www.cinemarati.org/index.php/archives/is-dreamgirls-the-real-thing/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:23 (twelve years ago) link

just what i've been looking forward to

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:26 (twelve years ago) link

Who hasn't?

N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:29 (twelve years ago) link

sub-carlin at best

N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:29 (twelve years ago) link

some of the manic Armond White hate there rivals ILE's

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:33 (twelve years ago) link

As for your thesis of DREAMGIRLS vs. James Brown, it seems a bleakly unfair comparison. The music in this movie is clearly a pastiche, meant to evoke but not emulate. It’s like saying that one prefers the songs in CHICAGO to those of Scott Joplin, or the music of RENT to The Sex Pistols.

Um...

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:33 (twelve years ago) link

I skimmed that debate; it's really interesting! I still hate Armond White tho.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:35 (twelve years ago) link

Eric, you better be talkin bout the Kiki & Herb verion of the roffletastic "5,780,600 Minutes..."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 12 January 2007 19:52 (twelve years ago) link

nice of Armond White to brand Effie a stalker presumably for the sin of choosing a romantic partner rather than waiting around to be chosen.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 12 January 2007 20:15 (twelve years ago) link

I loved it but spent most of the movie wishing I was listening to actual Motown songs instead of Motown-influenced showtunes.

max (maxreax), Friday, 12 January 2007 20:18 (twelve years ago) link

I was mostly saying "um" because the argument's really passive and weak. Nevermind actually preferring the songs of Dreamgirls or Rent to James Brown or the Sex Pistols (which I'm not sure he was saying he did). But then arguing that recognizing them as pastiche absolves you of recognizing they're pale imitations ... I dunno.

Now I know how it feels to like Hitchcock and not De Palma.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 12 January 2007 20:23 (twelve years ago) link

yeah, I agree the argument sucks -- also, Rent's milieu has pretty much nothing to do with '70s punk.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 13 January 2007 16:28 (twelve years ago) link

Haha! I noticed that too, but it was so massively wrong I couldn't address it.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 13 January 2007 18:10 (twelve years ago) link

But there are white people and guitars! Isn't that what punk is?

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Saturday, 13 January 2007 23:36 (twelve years ago) link

I just saw it. The acting was excellent and the story was good, and I enjoyed all the Motown pseudo-history. But the songs are total throwaways. Not one memorable song in the whole musical.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Saturday, 20 January 2007 05:12 (twelve years ago) link

I didn't like Hudson's singing too much either, but it's not the melisma, it's the way she belts every moment of the song like it's the climax. She can't get out of talent show mode.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Saturday, 20 January 2007 06:17 (twelve years ago) link

Um... what the hell are you talking about?

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 04:42 (twelve years ago) link

Um, I hate overly melismatic singing, but I was blown away by Jennifer Hudson. THAT'S the kind of soulful singing that works. And I'm not surprised she didn't go far on "American Idol" -- her voice is TOO unique and special for it to work on that celebration of banality and middle-of-the-road-dom. I loved every single second Ms. Hudson was on the screen and I actually clapped after she sang "And I'm Telling You". I hardly EVER clap at a movie. She sings with feeling because she's capable of evoking those emotions while she sings. I for one look forward to hearing many more great things from here in the next four decades or thereabouts.

Phoenix Dancing (krushsister), Sunday, 21 January 2007 06:24 (twelve years ago) link

You're a natural publicist.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 21 January 2007 07:39 (twelve years ago) link

Um... what the hell are you talking about?

Don't get me wrong -- she's got an incredible voice and she can sing. I just didn't hear any artistry in the way she delivered the songs, and frankly, it might have helped if the songs were any good. I liked her acting, fwiw, and I think given time she could be great.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 21 January 2007 17:46 (twelve years ago) link

Are you familiar with Jennifer Holliday's version of "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going"? THAT is a full-on, every-note-is-the-climax blastathon (which I also love but srsly, Jennifer Hudson started that song soft and tenative and became more passionate and out of control until that huge, long-ass phrase at the end of the bridge, which is the actual climax of the song; if you really can't distinguish between the beginning of the song and that moment and aren't exaggerating for rhetorical effect...).

This is setting aside the fact that belting is the necessary technique to sing this music and not a signifier of "the climax".

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:02 (twelve years ago) link

Is "this music" the music from the show or gospel and R&B? Because I listen to plenty of gospel and R&B - there's belting and there's belting.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:16 (twelve years ago) link

The show; it's Broadway.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:17 (twelve years ago) link

(Specifically, it's not round-tone Broadway, it's belt-to-the-bannisters Broadway; this was not written in the age of Gershwin/Kern/Rodgers-Hammerstein/etc and shouldn't be sung like it was.)

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:19 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, well contemporary Broadway singing is where I generally draw the line, so I guess we just have to "agree to disagree."

Also, I know your vocal music credentials and I'm not going to try to out-argue you on this one.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:21 (twelve years ago) link

I will agree that a large part of the problem with modern Broadway is that most of the time the songs are either too weak for the people singing them or the singers are incapable of singing them. That's why when everything clicks, it's amazing (see esp. "A Light At The Palazza", which is written almost like an operetta and as such comes across phenomenally better than most modern Broadway).

I'm not going to argue that "Dreamgirls" has the best music in the world but I fet that, aside from Jamie Foxx, that cast sang the shit out of it. Eddie Murphy's first song = WAU.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:24 (twelve years ago) link

"A Light At The Palazza"

Is Will Ferrell in that? ;) i've only heard a little Guettel, via MacDonald, but I had a pretty ehh reaction. Is it much, er, cop?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:49 (twelve years ago) link

I did enjoy the fake Jackson 5 number "Boy Meets Girl"

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:51 (twelve years ago) link

Audra is overrated, I think.

They show a performance that they did at MoMA the year after it won Tonys on PBS periodically. It's really astounding (and totally unlike "Dreamgirls").

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 January 2007 20:52 (twelve years ago) link

"Just thought I'd jump in and say that the trailer gives no hint that the film's a musical."

If I had known this I would probably never have seen the film. People around me got so pissed every time they started singing to each other. The movie could've been so much better if it wasn't a musical.

Who's Eddie's character supposed to be based on? And CC?

Jennifer Hudson is *the* shit. I hope to see more of her in the future. Beyoncé was surprisingly good.

Lovelace (Lovelace), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:20 (twelve years ago) link

lolling at a dreamgrlz theater full of people who start grumbling every time a song starts

A B C (sparklecock), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:47 (twelve years ago) link

Even though the songs are mostly lame I'd think the movie would be really boring without them, it's not like it's a super strong story!!

A B C (sparklecock), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:48 (twelve years ago) link

I hope you understood that I'm just talking about when the actors sing to each other...you know, being all musical-ish. That makes me want to puke. But I did enjoy the many stage performances a lot

Lovelace (Lovelace), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:53 (twelve years ago) link

The same goes for the audience I was the film with btw.

Lovelace (Lovelace), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:57 (twelve years ago) link

the only really lame one i remember is when they're in that white room singing about how jennifer hudson needs to suck it up and let beyonce be the lead singer. her big number is musical-y singing to people!! i guess i saw this too long ago to argue about it on the internet but i remember the story being moved along by like 75% montages

Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:58 (twelve years ago) link

I'm boggling at A) walking into this movie not knowing it's a musical, especially given the media blitz surrounding it, and B) hating one of the basic tenets of a musical (ie, people are gonna sing dialogue at each other; suck it up and get over it).

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 February 2007 04:44 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, I am surprised that so many people have that problem -- even some critics. Same goes for people's criticisms of the story, honestly -- musicals are usually told in big, broad strokes. Don't expect tons of nuance and historical verity.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Thursday, 1 February 2007 04:49 (twelve years ago) link

seriously. people who can't handle watching people bursting into song + song taking on the function of dialogue are missing a great pleasure.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Thursday, 1 February 2007 06:12 (twelve years ago) link

I'm boggling at A) walking into this movie not knowing it's a musical

I can't get past this either! How in the world do you miss this?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 February 2007 06:13 (twelve years ago) link

"I had no idea Star Wars was going to have lasers in this, I just wanted to see old guys talking about spiritual powers."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 February 2007 06:14 (twelve years ago) link

haha, board full of people who love/obsess over critics and the minutiae of pop culture not getting that vast amounts of people(largely kids/teens)just see an add with eddie murphy/beyonce/jamie foxx and go "hey, let's check it out!"

bobby bedelia (van dover), Thursday, 1 February 2007 06:43 (twelve years ago) link

I saw this tonight and was surprised at how entertaining it was. Jennifer Hudson stole the movie, with Eddie Murphy a close second. I thought he was excellent. And even though Beyonce does nothing for me as a singer I melted into a big goopy mess whenever she was onscreen.

Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Sunday, 4 February 2007 06:54 (twelve years ago) link

haha, board full of people who love/obsess over critics and the minutiae of pop culture not getting that vast amounts of people(largely kids/teens)just see an add with eddie murphy/beyonce/jamie foxx and go "hey, let's check it out!"

Every single thing said.written about this movie references the fact that it's a musical!

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Sunday, 4 February 2007 13:36 (twelve years ago) link

ten months pass...

As far as movies to have on in the background on HBO HD on your parents' nice TV during winter break go this is a minor classic

A B C, Friday, 28 December 2007 01:29 (eleven years ago) link

yes i still love this movie and have seen it approximately 5000 times.

horseshoe, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:35 (eleven years ago) link

jennifer hudson is playing sarah jessica parker's assistant in the movie of that awful show. :(

horseshoe, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:42 (eleven years ago) link

does that represent a faster post-Oscar fall than Cuba Gooding Jr's?!

Dr Morbius, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:44 (eleven years ago) link

jennifer hudson is playing sarah jessica parker's assistant in the movie of that awful show. :(

Dreamgirls Part 2?

gabbneb, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:45 (eleven years ago) link

four months pass...

I thought Dreamgirls was pretty meh. The editing was manic. The photography was awful. The plot (like most musicals) was silly, but worse it was paint-by-the-numbers unadventurous. The acting was mostly pretty wooden. But all that is beside the point. It's all about the music, right?

The singers were amazingly talented. But the stuff they were given to sing was rot: consistently overproduced and soulless. Real Motown was fresh and engaging and remains so.

The only number in Dreamgirls that even started to engage me was early on when Jennifer Hudson sang a ditty about how Jamie Foxx was the "perfect man" for her. It was the only nummber where Hudson didn't belt every last word of the lyric.

The writer directed this. He and the producer should be shut up in a comfy, luxuriously appointed, airless box and never let out.

Aimless, Sunday, 25 May 2008 17:47 (eleven years ago) link

Edie Murphy drops trou.

Abbott, Sunday, 25 May 2008 17:59 (eleven years ago) link

That was a highlight, yes.

Aimless, Sunday, 25 May 2008 18:04 (eleven years ago) link

four years pass...
ten months pass...

Oh god I fucking love love love this movie so fucking much. It is basically Motown fan fiction but then they get real pop stars to play the thinly veiled ciphers and just wow wow wow everything about this movie is SO GREBT who cares if the songs are a little showtunes on steroids I fucking love it with the same part of my heart that believes Josie & the Pussycats is the best pop film ever made I love it wow.

Branwell Bell, Saturday, 4 January 2014 23:09 (five years ago) link

ginormous smiley face

SHAUN (DJP), Saturday, 4 January 2014 23:28 (five years ago) link

Just about the bit where there is the giant final Queen Bey / Jennifer Hudson sing-off battle I am always just rolling around on the floor going "best! film! EVAR!" There is so much to love about this film, all the 60s trivia just totally gets to me. It is magic!

Branwell Bell, Saturday, 4 January 2014 23:35 (five years ago) link

it is the fuckin best

horseshoe, Sunday, 5 January 2014 01:23 (five years ago) link

whenever i talk about this movie irl and people dismiss me i always want to be like "D4n P3rry loves it too!" but then i can't ;_;

horseshoe, Sunday, 5 January 2014 01:23 (five years ago) link

How can people dismiss this movie? How? OK, I guess it's one of those films that reveals itself more and more on repeated watchings. The first time I was all like "glam! glitz! camp! pop! 45 single montages! tap dancing!" but the more times I watched it, the more of the subplots revealed themselves to me. On one level, it's like, yeah, it's a very superficial when dealing with the social changes of the 60s and 70s, but on the other, it's a fucking pop music fantasy! The fact that it tips nods to social change at all is amazing. Because that was what was *so great* about the girl group era songs in the first place, that they seemed quite frivolous and kitchen sink on the surface, but if you looked a little harder, you realised that they were grappling with some quite complex issues that just weren't getting talked about elsewhere. And this film has it all - solidarity, sisterhood, sexual betrayal, INAPPROPRIATE PREGNANCY - swapping out band members, sacking the fat talented one, bands getting screwed over by their managers, white fans being fickle, black fans having long memories but being unforgiving, all the cliches, but also laying bare a lot of things about the music industry that they try to pretend are in the past, or better yet never existed - even while they do the same thing today (white artists appropriating black music, quite literally in places, like, how much more blatantly can they put it out there?) This movie is fun, and silly, and light-hearted and glitzy, but there's a ton of condensed history in there with the sugar. Some of the film's most powerful moments are actually so understated like it's deliberately easy to miss them on first viewing - the bit where James Thunder Early is basically booed off the stage in Florida, for doing his usual salacious audience-baiting at a white woman, yet it's the moment that the black waiter turns around and gives him this *look* and a smile. Seems much more effective than a heavy handed "this is the moral message here" <- though there are those moments, too, e.g. "This is a black-owned business!" as Detroit burns.

A movie about Pop Music is always going to be a hard sell. Make it about GURL COOTIE female pop music, that's a harder sell, make it a film with three strong black female leads, and even if two of them are actual Pop Stars, that's going to be an impossible sell.

It's weird to me that it doesn't even seem to have a cult following among people who idolise the "Girl Group" sound; I've never seen anyone from the indie-pop scene even mention it. But I guess that's the thing, it's easy to listen to Supremes and Vandellas records and ignore race; it's not so easy to watch a film set in 60s America and ignore race.

Branwell Bell, Sunday, 5 January 2014 10:40 (five years ago) link

(It just reminds me of those dudes who are always all "oh, Motown and 60s girl groups are so so classic" but if you turn up with an Electrik Red or Dawn Richard record they're all NOPE.)

Branwell Bell, Sunday, 5 January 2014 10:47 (five years ago) link

Reading this thread, some of you (pl) are o_0 with your criticism of vocal styles.

One of the things that really got me was such a classic girl group trope of using vocal style as a shorthand for personality. Effie's singing style is indicative of her ballsy, creative-fire-of-the-band, over the top personality, and it's the bits where she breaks or lets down her tough-girl guard that really get you. And Deena's evolution from personality-free cipher to hugely emotive singer echoes her character development. And I think one of the underrated bits of the film is that moment where perpetual backing singer/doormat Lorelle finally goes from wispy bits of "oohs" and "aahs" to finally busting a gut on "Lorelle loves Jimmy, it's true... but Lorelle and Jimmy are THROUGH!!!!" -- aah, aaah, yeah, it's obvious (this is show tunes, of course it's obvious!) but it fucking gets me every time.

Branwell Bell, Sunday, 5 January 2014 11:01 (five years ago) link

All of that is massively OTM

SHAUN (DJP), Sunday, 5 January 2014 18:46 (five years ago) link

Edie Murphy drops trou.

― Abbott, Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:59 PM (5 years ago)

even the beatles had a coinstar machine in their living room (Crabbits), Sunday, 5 January 2014 18:53 (five years ago) link


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