friend envy

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What to do when envy of a friend, and automatic comparisons with them in which you come up short, start to get in the way of an old and otherwise strong friendship? It's such an ugly and destructive feeling, but sensible platitudes about how everybody's different and if you really care about someone you want them to be happy aren't quite enough to dissolve it. Advice? Personal stories? Anyone?

Maria (Maria), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

What is it about your friend's life that you envy so much, Maria?

C J (C J), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

you will be good at things they're not and vice versa so try and remember that just to ease the envy. if you want what they've got, maybe talk about it with them (not necessarily giving the impression you're envious particularly) so you can appreciate more what the downsides of it may be.

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

ask them to give you whatever it is.

jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

TEH SEX

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I suppose if you really care about someone you do want them to be happy, but not if they've stolen your job or your man or something.

C J (C J), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

"you will be good at things they're not and vice versa so ..."

not always the case though

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:39 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah I think if you think of how you are different from them, that's probably a good strategy, hope that's not in the empty platitude category. also, it's very difficult to change how someone else is, you kind of have to accept it, we can change how we ourselves are though.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Never compare yourself to anyone else. It's pointless. Be your own damn person.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

That doesn't make sense.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link

The thing is, these "automatic comparisons with them in which you come up short" usually say more about your own insecurities and "shoulds" than they do about your feeling about your friend.

The trick, therefore, is to think less about your friend and what they may have that you don't, but to work on building your own confidence and self esteem - and if these insecurities reveal something that you feel you should be doing more about, then work more towards that goal.

I know, easier said than done. I suffered from horrible friend envy when I was younger, always comparing myself negatively to others. But now I've got my life more in order, and made accomplishments of mine own, I've stopped comparing myself to others nearly as much.

(OK, except for romantic stuff - that I'm never going to stop feeling envy about.)

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Meanwhile, I don't envy my friends, who are all utter failures. I am concerned though that that may be the reason I chose them (and they chose me).

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Friends come and go. You go through loads of different groups of people in life.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I was in this situation once and realised that my friend was envious of me for the exact same reasons I was envious of him, if that makes sense. At the time he was envious because I had a job and a girlfriend and my own place to live and I envied him because he wasn't tied down to anything and often would and could just drop everything and do whatever he wanted to do whenever he wanted. When I realised this was the case I stopped being jealous.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:46 (seventeen years ago) link

You might be envious of your friend because she has, say, lovely long red hair which makes her look extremely glamorous. But you could dye your hair a similar shade, and it would look completely shit on you.

Perhaps the key is finding a way of being comfortable with yourself and being proud of your own achievements (however small they may be). Inner peace and happiness type thing.

C J (C J), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Every time I feel this I overcome it by systematically ruining the life of the friend in question, Iago-style. It's a lot of effort to go to but it makes me feel better.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Meanwhile, I don't envy my friends, who are all utter failures. I am concerned though that that may be the reason I chose them (and they chose me).

OTM. i am totally better than all my friends and friends of my friends. except me, whom i'm only as good as.

ken c (ken c), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link

"you will be good at things they're not and vice versa so ..."

not always the case though

you really think so? i don't

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Nathalie's otm here - the envy's specific reason is that we're competing for a postgraduate opportunity and she's way ahead (but she works really hard and i have some A-'s, so i can't be mad at her for that). but in general, she's pretty much perfect in every way and set for the perfect life, while i am really afraid i'm going to work at wal-mart and then die alone as a cat lady. comparison is stupid, yes, but when committees of people with lots of money are comparing you, it's hard not to compare yourself!

xpost kate you are pretty otm too. it's definitely about insecurity. i am just totally failing at not resenting her when it's really my problem.

Maria (Maria), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Just ride it out Maria then it'll be all the more sweet when they do fail.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

ooh, that's a pretty bitter attitude, Darra.
i used to worry about this kind of thing. it's really not worth worrying about. this isn't school anymore, so who gives a shit who's good at what?

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I rarely if ever compare myself. I think it's rather pointless, really. I mean, if I do, I'll always think I'm stupid but I don't need to have friends to know that. hah

"you will be good at things they're not and vice versa so ..."
not always the case though

you really think so? i don't

I do. Some people just have it made in every department. That's the way life sometimes is. I know some people who will say:"But I bet he's crap in bed (or whatever else they use as an excuse to make'em feel better)." and I just know that's just some silly excuse to make yourself better. It's a lie because some people just have it all. Live with it. Or rather, accept it and work at yourself by not comparing yourself to that (or other) person.

Rambling. As ever.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, this is great. It's great because one day you wake up and they're overweight, underpaid and living in bumfuck, and you're in the city with a sweet job and still fit in yr college jeans, but you'll STILL be wondering where the hell you got it all wrong because they spend hours every weekend pursuing some creative hobby in their converted guest bedroom and you don't. It's a mindset. It has nothing to do with the actual relative pros and cons of your situations. Blame your parents. And blame yourself for wanting everything.

FACTS: I'M A WAITER (TOMBOT), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Argh, that's awful, Maria. Competing with a friend for the same job or opportunity is just awful. It's been known to wreck friendships and create rivalries all through time.

You just have to try and concentrate on doing your best, making your best case, and trying honestly, to let the "better (wo)man win".

And either way, whichever outcomes happens (and the very best thing would be for neither of you to get it, but a third party altogether, in which case you could both commiserate) don't let your *performance* negatively affect your view of your*self*.

Anyway, lots of "perfect people" are secretly miserable compulsive overperformers and perfectionists who are never actually happy with themselves, either.

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I do. Some people just have it made in every department.

these people always have one flaw - they're always shit at video games. SRSLY. Challenge them and see it firsthand.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Most of my friends have some kind of flaw or issue I wouldn't ever want so I couldn't care less if they earn more than me. I know I'm best.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:55 (seventeen years ago) link

What Tombot said.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"these people always have one flaw - they're always shit at video games. SRSLY. Challenge them and see it firsthand."

Oh yes, that really erases everything else, now does it? ;-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I try to avoid thinking in terms of "the best" or "the worst" - I try to think in terms of "just different".

Happiness isn't a case of being perfect, it's a case of being content. (Not that I've cracked one either.)

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Any given set of circumstances are irrelevant to the systemic problem, I guess is my point. Also, nobody is "pretty much perfect in every way and set for the perfect life;" Martha Stewart went to prison.

FACTS: I'M A WAITER (TOMBOT), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

i want to type an intelligent post for this but the fucking loudness of the coughing guy behind me is making me lose my concentration.

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Kill him!

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Is there more than one of these opportunities on offer or is everyone competing for just the one?

suzy (suzy), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh yes, that really erases everything else, now does it? ;-)

Yeah. I used to think I was shit at everything, and all my friends did eveything better than me. I'm not athletic, I'm not a great musician, crap artist, and all my friends are good at these types of things. I really thought i wasn't good at anything, then I realised I wasn't including video games. I fucking pwn at games, and i pwn all my friends at 95% of the multiplayer games we play. I'll beat games before any of my friends, then go round their house and beat them too. I move on to competitive online gaming, and find i'm not only better than my friends - i'm better than a lot of people out there.

Why didn't I count video games when i was weighing up skills? Because i was trapped in thinking that they shouldn't count as skills. I realise that's bullshit now, obv. I'm REALLY fucking pleased I've found something I'm good at, and when people kinda disregard it as something not worthwhile, or something that's not a skill, I just tell myself that they must be jealous. Roffles!
You probably think i'm full of shit, but great precision, coordination and reaction times, combined together with strategic thinking, split second decisions and the ability to inspire teammates is just as skillful as kicking a football between some posts or playing a guitar solo.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

And if you worked at Walmart, would that be the end of the world? No. You would learn some valuable life lessons and maybe develop a new plan. It's not that big of a deal. Every life experience you have is valuable. Once you learn that, "failure" suddenly becomes more bearable. Or so I've told myself.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

That's rubbish.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

but great precision, coordination and reaction times, combined together with strategic thinking, split second decisions and the ability to inspire teammates

you could be a Boy Scout leader!

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

What I mean is, sometimes it helps to toughen oneself up a bit. That can be more valuable to you in the long run than the "perfect job opportunity."

That said, I can't even read my college bulletin anymore because of all of the young chippies headed off to Turkmenistan to study carpet weaving on a grant. But I get over it about 10 minutes later.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

That's rubbish.

Please elaborate. You're destroying my dreams here, you could at least explain yourself.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm better than all my friends at games and I have a massive willy.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link

i think Kicks might have been rubbishing the post after.

I'm with teh kit. I'm fucking well proud of my gta achievements, because in reality it's all i have over most of my friends. oh and i think i'm better at cooking.

if only gta was multiplayer ;)

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I think an undercurrent to my post is that people are often quick to disregard stuff they themselves are actually good at, whereas it's so much easier to think things other people are good at are better achievements, etc.
Grass is always greener, and so on.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link

ps. google Multi Theft Auto

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I have some pretty fucking talented friends, but I don't know, I think it reflects well on me somehow. I'm just happy to know them (and it makes me try to step up my game when it comes to some things).

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm only good at stuff I'm interested in, i.e I didn't bother learning a musical instrument or learning to paint as I don't want to be a musician or a painter. If I don't like something I don't do it regardless of whether my friends are good at it.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Thing is, these days when I find that I admire my friends or think they're doing cool things, my first reaction isn't actually jealousy, but "actually, hey, they must think I'm pretty cool, too, if they're willing to hang out with me..."

Arrogant, yeah, but still... I've got some damned cool friends.

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:17 (seventeen years ago) link

If i ever thought my friends were doing me a favour by hanging out with me, I'd have stabbed them in the face by now.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:19 (seventeen years ago) link

It's always difficult when you and a friend are both competing for the same job, but you don't know exactly what the selection panel are looking for. You might well be the 'best fit' for the job, so just do your best and be yourself.

C J (C J), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:19 (seventeen years ago) link

No, fuck off, it's not that I think they're doing me a favour, it's that I think these people regard me as a peer, and it makes me better able to take pride in mine own accomplishments.

(By "cool" I mean, well, good, constructive, interesting - rather than "trendy" or whatever.)

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Are they totally rad?

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link

just do your best and be yourself.

WORDS TO LIVE BY.

fuck off

no need for that.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Meanwhile, I don't envy my friends, who are all utter failures. I am concerned though that that may be the reason I chose them (and they chose me).
-- Eyeball Kicks (eyeballkick...) (webmail), Today 4:44 PM. (Eyeball Kicks) (later) (link)


This is so OTM!

ps multi theft auto kinda sux.

richardk (Richard K), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, kit, I didn't rubbish your way of establishing self esteem WRT to your friends, so why are you rubbishing mine?

Dear Cafes of London (kate), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Well your post was pretty pathetic sounding 'all my friends are amazing I don't know why they let me hang around with them' etc.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

i seem to like hanging out with people who are successful, talented etc. but in different ways to me (well, it's all relative, chief). presumably cos i can retain a sense of feeling 'special' without guilt. the downside is i don't have enough people to talk in-depth about certain interests, shared skills and whatnot.

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link

before you clarified it, it sounded a lot like you were striving to meet their expectations in order to be accepted.
now all is clearer.

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I get the friend envy thing a little except it's tinged with disgust, I see people I know going doing something and I think "they are successful but look what they are doing, how can someone I like or liked do this, it's awful, they are better than this."

I know this probably makes me an asshole...I still get it though.

As a general rule I think these sort of thoughts are poisonous. It's better to think of career as your own thing, even if it can be hard.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link

A Japanese foreign exchange student showed me her English-learning workbook. They had to memorize an exchange that went something like this:

Anna: Why are you so sad?
Kathy: I wish I could play the violin like you. You have more talents than me. That is why I am sad.
Anna: Kathy, you can play tennis better than I can. The dolphin can swim, and the seagull can fly.
Kathy: That makes me happy.

Abbott (Abbott), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link

then they kiss

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

then they see who's better at CS Source

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Then they touch each other and it scares them at first but they like it.

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Kathy: I know something else I'm good at.

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Anna: Mmmm...

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

THEN THEY/WE ALL LEZ UP THE END

teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Leaving the mystery of how the violin string/tennis racket end broke..

Darramouss (Darramouss ftw), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

that's so cute.

kate i totally know what you mean about admiring your friends and being glad they like you - that is how i felt about this friend up until the recent competitiveness! in general i think it is great to think so well of your friends.

Maria (Maria), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

the dolphin can swim, and is well liked. the seagull is a filthy annoying pest

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link


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