Serious Study: Immaturity Levels Rising

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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/23/immature_hum.html?category=human&guid=20060623110030

The questions are: who/what is to blame? what would this guy suggest? is this just another 'we used to be so pure and good in the hunter-gatherer days' theory used to bash modern culture? i need to think before i can answer, but...thought it was interesting.

trees (treesessplode), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Wanna be young - the rest of my life
Never say no - try anything twice
Til the angels come - and ask me to fly
Gonna be 18 til I die - 18 til I die
Cant live forever - thats wishful thinkin
Who ever said that - must of bin drinkin
Dont wanna grow up - I dont see why
I couldnt care less if time flies by

18 til I die - gonna be 18 til I die
Ya it sure feels good to be alive
Someday Ill be 18 goin on 55! - 18 til I die

Anyway - I just wanna say
Why bother with what happened yesterday
Its not my style - I live for the minute
If ya wanna stay young - get both feet in it - 18 til I die
A lil bit of this - a lil bit of that
lil bit of everything - gotta get on track
Its not how ya look, its what ya feel inside
I dont care when - I dont need ta know why
18 til I die - gonna be 18 til I die
Ya it sure feels good to be alive
Someday Ill be 18 goin on 55! - 18 til I die
Ya theres one thing for sure - Im sure gonna try

Dont worry bout the future
Forget about the past
Gonna have a ball - ya were gonna have a blast
Gonna make it last

S. (Sébastien Chikara), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link

or:
"i'd rather stay a child and keep my self respect
if being an adult means being like YOU"-dk's

trees (treesessplode), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

This study is poo.

Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

hah!
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/23/gallery/immature_goto.jpg

That's the Dancing Cop of Providence, Rhode Island

dar1a g (daria g), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~vox/0304/1201/images/brooks.jpg

Not a psychological neoteny.

Bucks Fullmin (vincent spano), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

it's not even proper bashing of modern culture without a definition of maturity. i think a weak point of that article is its failure to properly explain the alternative.

Maria (Maria), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link

ppoo!!

S. (Sébastien Chikara), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:59 (seventeen years ago) link

poo thirded. There's nothing to argue about here. Not only is maturity not defined, immaturity isn't, either.

A “child-like flexibility of attitudes, behaviors and knowledge” is probably adaptive to the increased instability of the modern world, Charlton believes.

Make that, a flexibility of attitudes, behaviors, and knowledge is the whole reason our brains are the size they are, and essential to human evolution, and you might be on to something.

a great big turk running amok with a machete (kenan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

people do get to stay younger longer now though. i mean, not as many people get married and have kids right out of high school like people used to. there isn't as much pressure anymore to join the hive. you can be off by yourself forever almost. thus, fewer responsibilities and less reason to be mature about stuff. especially if you move around a lot. then you don't even have to care or care for your neighborhood, town, etc. and your family is just a voice on the phone. you don't have to take care of them or help them out. and people live longer, yeah. people older than me still consider me a kid, and i'm pushing 40. someone pushing 40 50 years ago was no kid.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link

So are you saying being mature = getting married and having kids or does it = developing a sense of responsibility toward your community, family, etc? Those feel like two totally different things to me. A hardcore evolutionary psychologist might disagree, arguing that without the incentive of parental investment in his/her offspring, the sense of community will always be underdeveloped, because the incentive isn't there. But I think that's bullshit.

a great big turk running amok with a machete (kenan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

i think a weak point of that article is its failure to properly explain the alternative.

bingo. what exactly characterizes "psychological maturity"? the article seems to imply that it means not overreacting, and being able to prioritize. but it seems to me that both of those things would also be necessary characteristics of the kind of flexibility it associates with "immaturity." the whole thing seems deeply suspect.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link

"So are you saying being mature = getting married and having kids or does it = developing a sense of responsibility toward your community, family, etc? Those feel like two totally different things to me."

i think society used to view a productive (and mature) adult as someone who worked and got married and had kids and took an interest in their community (volunteerism, boosterism, local politics) and who looked after their family. and now i think people just wanna know how much money you make. hahaha, okay, maybe not, but maybe a little. nobody CARES if you are married and all the rest of it anymore because nobody knows if you are gonna even stick around long enough for them to care. or even know who you are.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 00:09 (seventeen years ago) link

having kids made me grow up (in some ways) in a big hurry. I HAD to. Before i had kids, I didn't have to do anything. And I didn't. Other than show up for work and pay my rent and cable bill. I lived like a college kid into my 30's. Nobody cared. Well, my parents did a little. But there was no great societal pressure on me to do anything. Cuz so many people my age were doing the same thing. This wasn't always the case. That's all I'm saying. People, in the past, didn't take 15 or 20 years off after high school or college to figure out what they wanted to do with their lives. it's a great luxury. But it can be a big trap too. And you can waste a lot of time. And you CAN get stuck in some pretty big stupid ruts that i would definitely call arrested immaturity.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 00:23 (seventeen years ago) link

But what's the "anything" one has to do, and what makes it mature? Am I immature because I choose not to add to the global population, and am making that choice very seriously? Am I immature because I want to retain a sense of fun, which IMO keeps my mind active and happy?

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 26 June 2006 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link

and: if you're gay. i guess you can still have kids. i do sort of agree with scott on this though

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Monday, 26 June 2006 00:53 (seventeen years ago) link

slight sarcasm in second sentence. that's a lot of 's' sounds. i'm stoned

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Monday, 26 June 2006 00:54 (seventeen years ago) link

no, no, let me clarify. i am talking about what society was once like and then i brought my own story into it, but i certainly wouldn't say that one is better than the other. you don't have to do anything! i thought doing nothing was my great calling in life, but it did make me worry and i was kinda miserable and unhealthy a lot too, so...

and a lot of this has come about because of the women's movement/feminism/the pill/etc and those are all great things. i think freedom and the ability to move around without being harshly judged by society is a good thing. but there are pros and cons to everything. and one con of the wandering dabbler who goes wherever and works wherever is a lack of stability that can be a detriment to actual towns and cities. if you don't have a stake in the place you live and when you get bored you are gone...well, you get the idea. i am sort of a supporter of hyper-localism, but most people find it really boring.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i've gotten to the point where, when my parents are too old to live on their own, i want them to come live with us or near us. and same with maria's parents.and not in a hospital or nursing home. i've gotten over my fear of normal life, normal people, and normalcy in general. i can be a freak who cares about where I live and want some of the old-fashioned shit without it being about stuff i hate, like patriotism and nationalism and religion. jeezus, am i stoned?

i used to think i would just hide out in the city alone in my room with my records and books forever until the smell made the neighbors call the police. that was my vision! and it was a very economical ecologically-sound vision. i didn't take up that much space. didn't drive a car. only fed myself. but believe it or not, there is actually a point to home and hearth and all that nonsense. especially the way things are going these days. rallying the troops and sticking in one spot (with suitable fall-out supplies) is looking like the thing to do.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:09 (seventeen years ago) link

with the parent thing, i lost my train of thought. the parent thing: on my own, i don't think i would have had the strength to make the decision to live with my parents when they were old and take care of them. I wouldn't have been mature enough to handle that. but with someone else helping me and with me, i know i can! it's as simple as that. Instant maturity. I think part of me always wanted to be part of a group or a part of something, i just didn't want to join any clubs.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, my parents did a little. But there was no great societal pressure on me to do anything. Cuz so People, in the past, didn't take 15 or 20 years off after high school or college to figure out what they wanted to do with their lives. it's a great luxury. But it can be a big trap too. And you can waste a lot of time. And you CAN get stuck in some pretty big stupid ruts that i would definitely call arrested immaturity.

-- scott seward (skotro...), June 26th, 2006.

*coughs, whistles idly*

latebloomer aka rap's yoko ono (latebloomer), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Scott, I will help you put up a shed for your parents.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Perhaps it could double as a cold-frame.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 26 June 2006 01:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Thanks, Beth!

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:08 (seventeen years ago) link

It's good that you've learned to value hearth and home, Scott. It must be because your neural pathways are so immature.

I direct an armpit fart in the general direction of David Brooks.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:22 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm just glad i didn't make it all about the damn baby cliches on here. "when you look into your infant's eyes, then you realize how petty and pathetic your own selfish..." blah, i hate that crap. even when it's true i hate it. i might even hate it because it's true. all in all, people are the worst. but you never know when they will offer you pie, so you gotta play along.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:28 (seventeen years ago) link

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/newquestions.php?board=86

lf (lfam), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:29 (seventeen years ago) link

having to care about other people DOES change you though. i got a job as a janitor/custodian at the hospital in part to get cheaper health benefits for the fam. i've never taken a job for that kind of reason before. and taken a job knowing i'll probably have to stick with it until my kids are stock brokers and have me living in the lap of luxury when i'm old (i can dream, can't i?) anyway, at work the other night i look at the wall and there is something posted that says *In Case Of Disaster* and it says that in case of disater the head of housekeeping must immediately call all custodians who must immediately come to the hospital, put on a helmet and armband, act as security in the emergency room, and prepare all conference rooms for bodies and casualties. and i thought to myself, okay, i'm down with that. me five or ten years ago: no way jose! you can keep your bodies. i'm gonna hide under my bed. so there you go.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:38 (seventeen years ago) link

The author doesn't seem impressed with parenthood either way, though. He mostly seems like he's pissed off at his grad students, and maybe some of the guys in IT.

Stephen X (Stephen X), Monday, 26 June 2006 02:56 (seventeen years ago) link

The article seems to me to be another one of those harkening-back-to-the-good-old-days sorts of things. I actually think it is a sign of maturity to not get married and/or have babies if you don't think you're ready or you don't want to. I have two kids and I love them so much, and some of the "when you look into your infant's eyes..." stuff that Scott cites is true, but in the long run, parenthood is a relentless job, so much so that I don't think anyone knows how true it is until they are there themselves.

I also get frustrated with the defition of family being so narrow.

Sara R-C (Sara R-C), Monday, 26 June 2006 03:11 (seventeen years ago) link

(an EEEEEVIL part of me wants to say I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? in that nasty little kid voice)

SRC OTM (bwahahaha that nearly spells something).

Additionally, I'm always interested when mediocre academics at middle-weight British universities weigh in about ANYTHING to do with life skills. It would be more newsworthy if they discovered they HAD some. As to the kids thing - I probably can't have them and therefore have to leave my mark on the world in some other way. As to living like a student until your 30s, I've no problem with individuals who live this way - often the choice is not solely made by them, so to be told you're not a grownup on this basis is APPALLING.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 26 June 2006 05:49 (seventeen years ago) link

so much so that I don't think anyone knows how true it is until they are there themselves.

I hate to use the term but so fucking on the money.

I dunno. I agree with Sara: this seems as though the old days were better. But were they? I think it's great I waited till I was *older* to have a kid. I cldnt like my parents: they were 19 and 21 ffs!

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Like scott sez, I don't think the suggestion is that the old days were better, just very different. I don't think our newfound "freedom" is all that, either.

Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Freedom in this usage is right up there with its new friends, flexibility and reform.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:22 (seventeen years ago) link

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/newquestions.php?board=86
-- lf (lfamula...), June 26th, 2006.

ha.

But seriously (because this was a 'serious study' after all), the thing that bothers me most about this study is that it relies too heavily on the 'old ways is better,' pro-retrogressive view of things. Additionally, how old is this guy? Because if he's a baby boomer type, then isn't a lot of this neotenous dawdling a result of his generation's example?

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Boomers don't understand quite how much they shit where they eat sometimes.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I like to think I matured pretty damn quick, despite the fact I have no kids or am married. I moved out of home and lived alone at 18. I can cook, proper meals, for myself, or for a party of 10. I can and do pay all my myriad bills on time, I can balance a bank account, I can pay my taxes, I have coped with abusive relationships without falling to pieces, and depression likewise (alone with no family support I might add). I am 35 and continue to be able to run a household and my life despite illness, aloneness, and fuck all support from anybody as I live no where near my family. I have never been fired from a job or broken the law.

I like to think that makes me mature, doesn't it?

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 02:07 (seventeen years ago) link

SRC OTM (bwahahaha that nearly spells something).

http://www.rhitard.com/daily/scotrun.gif

aimee semple mcmansion (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 02:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Trayce, you have my vote for "hyper mature."

(suzy and aimee - LOL on my initials plus OTM.)

Sara R-C (Sara R-C), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 02:15 (seventeen years ago) link

eleven years pass...

i'm watching this tv appearance by a guy representing segs4vets and they keep saying "segs for vets" over and over, and there is really not much of a difference between segs and sex. sometimes the words come out a bit differently and the 'g' is a little harder in segs, but generally they sound about the same. how did no one at the organization consider this

Karl Malone, Sunday, 22 April 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link

The oxygen machines used in the hospital I work at are all named after Disney characters. Like dopey. Strikes me as a little immature as well

after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Sunday, 22 April 2018 20:08 (six years ago) link

I was leading training w/ someone (a fairly conservative, polite, professional Christian lady) and since we were in other states and using WebEx, you have to "pass the ball" icon to let them present/share their screen.

so at one point it was getting to be her turn and she msgs me "Wanna ball me?", and 12 year old Neanderthal had to be subdued by office Neanderthal.

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 April 2018 00:56 (six years ago) link

wait there's an oxygen machine called "Sleepy"?!

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 April 2018 00:58 (six years ago) link


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