Help me with Bollywood and Indian cinema in general

2. Kuch Kuch Hota Hai (college sweethearts who never manage to somehow hook up...suddenly, it's years later and things have changed! Also: MS. BRIGANZA!)

I just got a movie called Salaam Bombay! from netflix, and really, really loved it. Small Change meets Born Into Brothels.

I haven't seen Jhoom Barabar Jhoom but clearly Amitabh Bachchan already has the look of the year down:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/16/arts/07.06.16.bara.span.jpg

As for older films, here was my take on Mughal-E-Azam.

BEGIN HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgUJK0cwBco

I am an extra in Jhoom Barabar Jhoom, during the Princess Diana funeral scene. Look out for me!

!

It translates as 'Dance Baby Dance', which, alas, does not accurately convey the solemnity of the situation.

DEVDAS!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my god, I cried :-(

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mHxU5EXXL._SS500_.jpg

I liked Bollywood/Hollywood, mostly for the fact that's a Canadian parody of Bollywood movies. Also, although sections are quite cheesy, Kandunkondain Kandunkondain "I Have Found It" (Sense & Sensibility update) has beautiful dance sequences.

You've got to see Gadar, some of the most beautiful music I've heard in a Bwood film.

I couldn't make it through Sholay. It doesn't need to be as long as it is.

Here is my review of Lagaan: Aamir Khan is extremely hot and never has much clothes on! The rest is kinda silly!

haha my sister and i did that bollywood workout all the time last spring ^^^

coworker passed me some dvds, i've got 'dil chahta hai' (tagline: "welcome to a summer of their lives you will never forget" and "chupke chupke"

wait i think i've seen dil chahta hai before, which is pretty crazy.

I can't watch Bollywood movies (I've tried on a couple of different occassions.) Some cultural differences are just too vast.

Can't wait for this: http://www.mynameiskhanthefilm.com

number 5 movie in the uk is apparently a bollywood film, 'i hate luv storys'

i don't know anything about it

it wasn't reviewed in, say, the guardian

whereas the no. 6 film, 'heartbreaker', also non-english-language, has generated a fair amount of pres

are british film critics racist or what?

Why don't you watch and review it somewhere then?

need more recs!

I hoping Endhiran winds up on netflix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysbbPStfWw

just watched There'll Always Be Stars in the Sky. It's p interesting, but also kinda judgmental and insulting - at one point the narration says "though the audience believes the actors are actually singing, the songs are ACTUALLY sung by playback singers." ru serious? i'm sure 99% if not the entirety of the audience knows that

"at times gypsies serenade their snakes with tunes they have unwittingly borrowed from films"

In this thread Shakey Mo Collier rhapsodizes about Om Shanti Om the best Bollywood film ever

don't be sad I saw that movie

Asoka bombed with the Hindi press and struggled with the public but i'd rate it as one of the best action/adventure/romance epics ever made. The direction / cinematography by Santosh Sivan are stunning, the music (mostly Sunidhi Chauhan on vocals) is great and the story is gripping. It's the classic Hindi kitchen sink film with loss, betrayal, love and a whacking great pitched battle with dudes on elephants.

Did anyone see Fashion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J3fkfUDkx8

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjUxNzM3NTYw.html rahat fateh ali khan

return of madhuri.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjYyNTgyMTQw.html priyanka is new old school love in the desert whisper in the ear number

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlczCe16Ao

parineeti.

what else recent to see?

one of the cinemas here shows a new Bollywood movie every Sunday night, i need to find somebody to go with, this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7xFJVWbMlQ

was on the other week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66nNnGZ5Rg

i have a thing for alia bhattttt

http://gallery.oneindia.in/ph-big/2013/05/alia-bhatt-shooting-for-highway-aru-valley-kashmir_13689409087.jpg

http://imgur.com/vunNZiD.jpg

http://s4.firstpost.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/alia_highway_380.gif

My recent adventures beyond Bollywood....

Tollywood:

Yamadonga (2007) - Directed by the same guy as RRR and featuring N.T. Rama Rao Junior, who plays one of the leads in that. It is supposedly about a mortal challenging the God of Death, though in true Indian cinema fashion this really only comes into play over an hour into the film. Before that there's a lot of fun action, with N.T. a thief being chased through streets (remember Rajamouli put the Disney Aladdin on his S&S list). Things actually get a bit less exciting once he arrives in the Afterlife - the sets are gorgeous but things get much more talky and dependent on cultural context I don't fully possess. There's an amusing sequence where N.T. mounts a dirty electoral campaign to overtake the God. There's also a scene where he dances with his grandfather, who was also a Tollywood star, and who is revived as a deepfake; Tollywood def ahead of the curve here in 2007. Interesting that the Hindu pantheon seems very close to ancient Greek or Norse gods - fickle, proud, no great claim to moral superiority.

Aditya 369 (1991) - Total banger! Directed by Singeetam Srinivasa Rao, who rules, and featuring Nadamuri Balakrischna, this is like if a rad 90's kid's sci-fi film got crossed with a Hong Kong action thriller, with some Errol Flynn swordplay thrown in. This one too actually got less entertaining for me once the supposedly main entertainment, in this case time travel, kicked in, as again it gets talky and there's lots of in jokes concerning old Telugu court habits and poets. But as soon as Balakrischna introduces the court to 50's Rock & Roll I was back in. There's a quick jump to the future with some Star Wars copyright infringement and then it's back to the present for a big action scene. Ends on a joke and a freeze frame. Hell yeah.

Kollywood:

Michael Madana Kama Rajan (1990) - Also by Singeetam, but working in Tamil as opposed to Telugu. This starts with the director singing a song about the movie and inviting you to watch it, as more films should. There's a lot in here that's just boring static medium shots but then every now and then the director hits you with an action sequence straight out of the silent era, a MGM calibre musical number or a terrifying stunt. The plot is pure farce (quadruplets get separated at birth, all played by Tamil star Kamal Hassan). Last 50 minutes or so are pure screwball heaven as romantic interests confront sundry Kamals they think are "their" Kamal. Also there's a really big dude. Both these Singeetam films are on Amazon Prime in really run down copies and I won't pretend it doesn't make me feel cool and "in the know" to be watching something that's escaped restoration to this extent.

Thinivu (2023) - Saw this in the cinema. Perhaps the least interesting of this batch, though still good entertainment. Starts out as a crime thriller that just twists and twists, had me lost entirely by the intermission. It eventually resolves in a satisfactory manner and then becomes an anti-capitalist screed which hey, I'm always up for. Mostly I just loved the audience reaction at protagonist Ajith Kumar, a fucking STAR of the kind the West doesn't produce anymore. Which lead me to...

Mankhata (2011) - One of A K's defining roles, this was more bitter and cynical than any of the other films mentioned here (though still with plenty of comic relief and musical numbers). Has a very 10's yellow tint that was a bit difficult to get past, too. But Kumar makes for a great anti hero and Raai Laxmi is a smouldering femme fatale. The blood was blotted out in ways that made it seem like weird cosmic portals were being opened by bullet wounds.

There is no non-embarrassing way to reveal that you are a fifty-something white woman who has recently become obsessed with Shah Rukh Khan, so I'm just going to fess up to it here and leave it at that.

Seeing his new one tomorrow! Excited. Also watched his Letterman ep, the interview felt very surface level and unfocused but Khan was super charming and the segments between interviews worked better - Khan and Letterman in the kitchen especially.

The number of times I have rolled my eyes in the last six months and said "FFS, Rahul, cop the fuck on."

Good non-SRK Indian film I have seen recently: An Action Hero (now on Netflix). Exciting, funny film about an Indian action hero who gets into serious real-life trouble. It makes some good points about how celebrities are covered in the media as well as being a solid bit of kickpunching. Obviously as an outsider my perspective on politics in India is limited, but I catch a bit of what's going on.

Seeing his new one tomorrow! Excited.

We had opening night IMAX tickets for Dublin, but Irish Rail let us down badly and we missed it. Very annoying.

Coming to Netflix tomorrow!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myG0f2RKizY

I had a certain amount of sympathy for Rocky's gran. I'm not sure how delighted I'd be if my husband resumed a long-buried love affair right under my nose. And if my grandson's fiancee came into my sweet shop and started making sweets without washing her hands first.

Well the husband wasn't really all there anymore, it's as much palliative care as a love affair imo. Plus the fact that in the opening flashback we see she never liked him anyway, due to his distasteful enjoyment of POETRY.

Maybe she washed her hands offscreen!

Oh sure, take her side.

(Just kidding.)

I had no idea that being a sweetmaker was such a big thing. This is at least the fourth film I've seen where one of the main characters is a sweetmaker. (Queen, K3G, Chennai Express, Rocky aur Rani)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lagaan.jpg
What could be better, on a rainy Saturday afternoon in Ireland, than watching an almost four-hour film about villagers in India learning cricket in order to defeat the colonisers so they don't have to pay exorbitant taxes during a drought? Just a pity the DVD of Lagaan (2001) I bought isn't fantastic quality. It would be great to watch a 4K version of this. I laughed, I cried, I almost couldn't watch at one point because it was all so tense.

I don't know why the image didn't come out. Odd.

Watched Chak De India at the weekend, which was fine. Classic sports underdog film, very simple. SRK makes a very convincing coach for a sports team, and all the women were great. Sadly the songs are poor and the camera work is extremely questionable (maybe to cover up some subpar hockey skills?). Good times, though. Well done, everyone.

Also watched 1972 classic Pakeezah, which has amazing songs and beautiful dancing. Really poor quality DVD, though.

Jawan on Thursday! Very exciting!

How was Jawan? Thinking of going

It was an absolute blast, but I can't tell you how the last twenty minutes was because the projector broke in our cinema and we all got sent home. As one of the Indian lads said to us "If this had happened in a cinema anywhere in India on the opening night of an SRK movie..."

But yes, it's very loud and brash and propulsive and silly and socially conscious and fun.

We went back for Jawan round two yesterday. This time we were told that the cinema was extremely hot and if we felt like we were too hot we could come out and ask for a refund. Basically Dublin cinemas are not meant to cope with heat + capacity crowds, and nobody in the scheduling bit realized that they were going to have capacity crowds for this film, so they failed to put it in the screen with the best air conditioning.

Anyway, it was still great second time round. The Robin Hood-type social justice messaging is very do-you-see, to the point where you find yourself laughing out loud at a farmer literally taking his head out of a noose when he gets some good news for a change. As my husband says, Atlee is clearly a big believer in "subtext is for losers". The film gets a lot of mileage out of SRK's own mythology, and there are references to other films, because of course there are, but they don't derail anything. Atlee obviously loves him, and he pays it back in spades. I've seen a lot of films at this stage where they try to make SRK look bigger than he really is, but they don't bother with that here. I don't know what he's doing in terms of eating/drinking/snorting/lifting/injecting/digitally manipulating these days, but he looks like a whipcrack of a man in Jawan.

It should be noted that other people are also in the film.

thanks for your review!

eventually went to

enjoyed the spectacle, SRK is so damn charming

on one hand interesting to see such a radical critique of the current system in a mainstream movie, otoh very heavyhanded as in your example (not sure whether to laugh or cry)

Watched RDX on Netflix at the weekend. Plotwise there's nothing new here -- the main thrust being what if THREE guys were awesome? -- and the music is not a big factor. But the kickpunching is great, and the guys themselves are extremely likeable. Great clothes and hair, too.

I went to see Skanda, which really takes the awesomeness to its ne plus ultra - once the hero defeats an entire army squadron on his own you really start to wonder if there are any stakes in this at all. Quite suss politics: it's about local corruption, as always, but here it takes the form of framing a virtuos capitalist. Lots of talk about God and Country. Gender politics deeply fucked too. Worth a watch if you want a shot of stoopid ott action tho. If not, I do recommend tracking down this Spirit Halloween-ass video; sadly the version on YouTube alternates between the actual scene and a lyrics video, but it should still give a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_oem10ywc

Jawan on Friday :)

I wish I was seeing Jawan on Friday.

Ended up going yesterday cause for some reason it leaves cinemas today?

A great time! Def liked this a lot more than I did Pathaan, but then I would, an angry class war polemic being far more amenable to my beliefs than the patriotic geopolitics of Pathaan (though Jawaan does lean into military-worship in the second half too). The very first musical number, wow, I don't know that I've ever seen a musical number with that many dancers!

Starting to realise that the Indian action film formula seems to be: introduce mysterious protagonist in first half, bring in origin story after the interval.

Have to say though trishyb, considering our agreement on violence against animals, surprised you didn't complain about poor Rio :O

On a tangential note, getting quite annoyed at "wow India is kicking our ass at action movies now" discourse. It comes from a good place of enthusiasm, and I've probably said similar in the past, but it's still centering Hollywood, like everything has to be compared to the fucking US, and also what do these ppl know about Indian action films of the 90's, 80's, 70's? I've watched quite a few and still wouldn't pretend to know anything really.

Have to say though trishyb, considering our agreement on violence against animals, surprised you didn't complain about poor Rio :O

Oh, I was not happy about it, not one bit. But it was very in keeping with the whole "throw everything at this and let it all stick" vibe of the film. Not enough that you have to do all these other things, but you KILLED DEEPIKA'S DOG. Plus everything moves so fast in that film. I loved the fact, for example, that the super scary Bane-looking guy with the cheetah turned out to be... nothing.

On a tangential note, getting quite annoyed at "wow India is kicking our ass at action movies now" discourse.

I haven't really seen this discourse. But yes, I totally agree with you. All I've learned about Indian films to date is that it is impossible for someone like me to really know much at all.

There's a part of me that thinks Hollywood/Western/non-Indian action films have become polarized. They're either all CGI, superhero, green screen, totally and obviously fake and comic book to the point where the actors may as well not be there at all, or they're striving incredibly hard for authenticity and a gritty reality that just ends up being kind of boring. The Indian action films I watch are a fun mixture of the two. But I could be massively misrepresenting modern non-Indian action films. tbh, I don't watch many non-Indian action films in them, because I do not find the awesome guys either charismatic or hot, so I can't be arsed.

in them = these days (don't know what happened there)

It's kinda crazy how violent Jawaan is, considering it's a mainstream blockbuster - child deaths, so many hangings!

A lack of star power is def a big part of the problem with modern Hollywood, partially since now it's so much about the franchise (whoever plays Spider Man matters less than Spidey himself).

fav random line from Jawaan, coming from a talking head commenting on the fact that the main character is holding the nation's entire stock of voting machines hostage until they give in to his demands: "this is not good for our democracy".

It's kinda crazy how violent Jawaan is, considering it's a mainstream blockbuster - child deaths, so many hangings!

Right? And SRK's social media team is all "oh, hey, take the kids, take the whole family, hope the little ones enjoy it." It was rated 15s in Ireland, and there were people there with small kids. I wouldn't let small kids watch that.

Thank You For Coming - Bhumi Pednekar plays a woman who's never orgasmed, until the night of her engagement...but she doesn't remember who it was with! Very self consciously progressive romcom - apart from the centering of female pleasure there's also casual marijuana use, a subplot about revenge porn and a portrayal of homosexuality which ends up very 90's and stereotypical but it does aim to be positive. Aleays feel a bit cheated when the actors don't sing in an Indian film - this has several musical numbers but all they do is dance, and not that impressively either. Anyway as a non-Indian male I am doubly unqualified to judge this film but it was a nice time, barely two hours. My favourite joke: in the middle of an anti-patriarchy catharsis session with girls shouting "I don't want to lose weight!", "I don't want to pluck my eyebrows", etc. one boy pipes up with "I don't want to study maths!" and there's no awkward silence or calling out, kid just gets away with it.

Lots of interesting videos on this channel it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd14bNaEdlc

Oh, nice.

My BBC Sounds notifications hiting paydirt:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/favourites/m001rjch

Hmm, I think that link is connected to your account. I just get an error when I click it.

Oops, this work?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001rjch?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Ah, yes, very good. Thanks!

I just love him so much. Did we sit and watch Jawan again when it hit Netflix on Friday? You know we did.

I saw it was on netflix but the words "extended cut" gave me pause, I had a blast with the theatrical but one thing I didn't think was "this could stand to be a bit longer".

It's only a few minutes longer. You would barely notice the difference.

btw, what are the essentials I should watch before Om Shanti Om? I realise there's no way I'll get ALL the references, but would like to have at least a few "aha, I get it" moments.

I don't really know. It was the second SRK movie I ever watched, so apart from recognising Hrithik in the extended "Deewangi Deewangi" number, I was very much in the "I assume this is some hilarious Bollywood reference I don't get" camp. Having seen it since I've learned more, I do at least understand that they make jokes about SRK being a notoriously bad timekeeper and always being on fire, but otherwise I think a lot of the older films they specifically reference are not that easy to come by - at least, outside India.

For example, I saw this musical number on Youtube the other week, which comes from Amrapali, a classic film that is referenced in Om Shanti Om. You can't get it anywhere, as far as I can see. Not streaming, and no DVDs available on eBay or other outlets.

Apparently on netflix in the US if you wanna invest in a VPN!

https://letterboxd.com/muktaa_/list/every-movie-referenced-in-om-shanti-om/

Using the filters it seems there is only one film that straight up isn't on any service anywhere: 1977's swashbuckler Jay Vejay, which does look like a lot of fun. 5 logs on letterboxd!

I will say though a lot of Indian movies I've found on streaming seem to have machine generated subtitles, which often end up quite poetic but entirely impossible to use to understand what's happening onscreen.

God, living in Ireland you get fleeced by streaming services left and right. There's so much we don't get, but we pay the same subscription fee. Moan moan, I'll just get a VPN, I guess.

Didn't go to Dunki in the cinema, because it opened four days before Christmas, and I'm not subjecting myself to the city centre at that time of year, not even for you, SRK. Anyway, it'll be on Netflix in a few weeks.

Very much looking forward to Malayalam film Malaikottai Vaaliban next week, based on nothing but the enthusiasm of some people I follow on BlueSky, and this intense trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqDLiObvefA

I saw Dunki at my local cinema. It was... well, it's always enjoyable to watch a Bollywood movie at the cinema, not a big turnout this time though, so less atmosphere. The narrative is kinda bizarre but it def has a heart.

Ah well. At least the songs in it are good.

Hanuman - Telugu superhero film, first installment in a cinematic universe. My LB review:

Pays off the dumb "superheroes are the modern mythology" talking point by having its hero actually be based on local mythology, to the extent that this white boy sometimes had trouble following along (though the sung recaps of the mythological elements were very helpful). The film also takes considerable advantage of its gorgeous rural setting and overall the tone is agreeably goofy, closer to a live action Asterix than anything in the MCU. The one concession to "well that just happened" American-style superheroics is Vennela Kishor's character, whose constant referencing of DC and Marvel properties does grate, though I will say his habit of exclaiming "shazam" at every opportunity and in a variety of emotional registers grew on me. A great time at the movies, looking forward to more in this shared universe!

Got some amused smiles on the way out of the cinema; tube wasn't running so I got on a bus that had a group of lads who asked me if I had enjoyed the film, and then proceeded to slag off the subtitles in Telugu (at least that's what I assume, ENG word "subtitles" in derisive tone only thing I understood obv).

Also gonna try to catch Merry Christmas (romance/mystery, puzzlingly released in January) and Naa Saami Ranga.

Merry Christmas is a must see! Wonderful sensual love story leading into a deliciously silly but emotionally affecting mystery. Reminded me of 50's Hitchcock, equal parts Movie Stars being charming and sexy and intense tension. Set in 60's Bombay, but ofc within the Christian population - noticed the male lead's last name is Pinto, the female lead is Maria, there's an Henriques as well, are all xian converts in India of Portuguese descent?

I watched Jawan last weekend. That was a lot of fun. It felt like 10 movies rolled into one. Insane highway chase setpiece near the end too.

Some of you might be interested in this thread I started over on ILM:

Rolling DESI and SOUTH ASIAN music thread 2024 - Bhangra, Bollywood, Chutney Soca, Baila etc...

Nice. I don't think I've ever posted on a thread on ILM in all my years here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00E3ZEvuen4

This is a three-part documentary on Salim-Javed that's on Amazon Prime now. Interesting enough for beginners like me, but if you know a lot about the industry, you will presumably already know everything it covers. And there's not much chat about the political background of their writing, or their inspirations (although Salim Khan does happily admit to *ahem* taking a lot of inspiration from existing Hollywood films). It still surprises me how everyone is related to everyone else in the Hindi film business. All in all, it's slight, but a good starting point.

My big problem with this documentary, like the one about YRF on Netflix, is that it's not accompanied by a whole slew of their films. Just Sholay and Dostana are available on Amazon in Ireland, at least. The others don't seem to be streaming anywhere I can find.

I'll have to check that one out! I saw Sholay on DVD ages ago - some comedy support that you kinda have to take on its own terms but man, what a climax.

Another documentary worth checking out, though I don't see it streaming anywhere, is Urf (2022) about the industry of bollywood superstar impersonators, also known as "juniors" - so the film follows a few of these, including guys making their living as SRK and Bachchan lookalikes. Sometimes they get roles in (very low budget) films, but the regular programming is more like appearences at parties, weddings, etc. The juniors themselves alternate between the defensive (this is a job, it takes talent, etc.) and wistfullness as they expected to get more "legitimate" roles in the industry.

Oh yeah, I just watched the trailer. Might try and dig that out online somewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-vRit1W_0

Mr India is on Prime Video (in the U.K. at least). A mainstay of Saturday morning Channel 4 schedules for years in the 1990s.

Shakti on Prime too! It looks like some others like Majboor are potentially available with an Eros Now subscription.

I had an Eros Now subscription for a while, but it stopped working and no amount of emailing could convince them to make it work, so I gave up.
The version of Sholay on Prime in the UK is a slightly weird theatrical version remastered for 3D cinema. There are a few bits where special-effects stones fly at u face, but otherwise it still looks good.