which is actually better 'apocalypse now' or 'apocalypse now : redux' ?

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would u say? i haven't seen the latter.

piscesboy, Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link

'apocalypse now'

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:57 (thirteen years ago) link

apocalypse now by a mile.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:58 (thirteen years ago) link

l like the bit with christian marquand in 'redux' but it's mostly bullshit.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:58 (thirteen years ago) link

Apocalypse Now by two miles.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link

The shortest one.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:00 (thirteen years ago) link

the acid makeout scene is kinda realistic, but classic is classic

senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Alternate Versions for
Apocalypse Now (1979)
A longer director's cut, titled "Apocalypse Now Redux", debuted on 11 May 2001 at the Cannes film festival. This cut was re-edited by Coppola and Walter Murch and features a new Technicolor dye prints with additional footage originally left out of thetheatrical release. The new version is 197 minutes long (53 minutes longer than the original version). The restored footage also includes the French plantation scenes with Aurore Clement and Christian Marquand, as well as scenes from the crew meeting the Playmates later on.
There are additional scenes when the crew is with Kilgore. During the napalm strike, he helps a wounded Vietnamese child. The napalm strike has ruined the favorable surfing conditions, so Lance and the others leave, much to Kilgore's dismay. Before they leave, Willard steals Kilgore's surfboard. Finally, just before Willard and Chef leave the boat to search for mangoes, a helicopter files by with Kilgore on loudspeaker, asking for his surfboard back.
In the Playmate scenes, Willard trades two drums of oil in exchange for spending two hours with the Bunnies. We see Chef with Miss May in a helicopter, and Lance with the Playmate of the Year in a ransacked house. Miss May was once a bird trainer at Busch Gardens and tries to talk about birds with Chef while he is busy trying to get her to re-enact her photo that he showed the crew. They end up kissing and Miss May gets excited because Chef kisses like a bird. The Playmate of the Year is talking to Lance about her troubles and insecurities about being a Playmate. Clean is seen trying to barge in on both men, and when he barges in on Lance, the Playmates open a chest (in which to hide) and discovers a dead Vietnamese. Lance comforts her. Chef finds out afterwards that Clean is a virgin and starts calling him names on the boat. Willard told Chief that the whole crew can spend time with the Bunnies, but Chief refuses.
At the plantation, Chef figures that they are French first and tells them in French that they are Americans and are friends. They bury Clean with his tape player there, and eat dinner with the French. The crew eats with the staff, and Willard eats with the family. Chef wants to speak to the chef but is informed he only speaks Vietnamese. Willard is lectured about France's colonial history in Indochine as well as their military blunders. There also is a scene with Willard and Roxanne, one of the French women, smoking opium.
At the Kurtz compound, Willard is imprisoned in an oven-like box. Kurtz appears, accompanied by a group of children. He reads to Willard from Time magazine articles about the Vietnam War.

There are four different treatments of the end credits, all four are available in different VHS, laserdisc, DVD and TV prints of the film......
When the film premiered in a limited 70mm format, it had no beginning or end credits, nothing but a one-line Omni Zoetrope copyright notice at the end. Programs were passed out to theatre goers in lieu of any credits.
When the film went into it's wide release it's format was 35mm. This version included end credits rolling over surrealistic explosions and burning jungle, showing the Kurtz compound being destroyed.
When Coppola heard that people were assuming that the explosions during the end credits of the 35mm version meant that an air strike had been called in on the Kurtz compound (which is not what he wanted audiences to think) he quickly re-edited the 35mm version to have the end credits rolling over a simple black background and a slightly altered musical score.
The "Redux" version also has the end credits over a black background but in different screen fonts and including additional "Redux" inserted cast members.

A 289min long workprint version exists. It has never been officially released but circulates as a video bootleg. The bootleg contains the following extra material not included in either the original theatrical release or the "redux" version.
A longer opening montage, the entire 10 minute song "The End" by The Doors is heard.It intercuts longer helicopters/jungle images with Willard in the hotel room in a drunken rage, as well as a scene where he is with a prostitute. There are various shots outside depicting the streets of Saigon.
When the two soldiers pick up Willard in the hotel room there is a brief conversation while they help him shower and shave. They notify him that his wait for his new mission is now over.
The scene where Willard is given his assignment is longer and contains much more dialogue. The general informs Willard that the mission is purely voluntary and he can decline it. The general also offers Willard a promotion to major upon completion of the mission. For some reason Colonel Kurtz is referred to in this scene as "Colonel Leevy". There are some external shots of the military base.
A brief scene where Willard is introduced to the crew of the Navy P.B.R.
Carmine Coppola's score is not present in this version. Many more songs by The Doors are played throughout the film instead.
None of the narration or dossier voiceovers are in this version.
There is no audio dubbing in this version. All the audio is from the sound recorded during the actual filming. Much of Robert Duvall's dialogue is unitelligable due to the sound of the helicopters in his scenes.
A much longer first cavalry "Ride of Valkyrie" attack scene (30+ mins)showing much unused footage and alternate takes.
A much longer playboy bunnies performance.
Various extended scenes on the boat, and alternate takes and shots.
A scene where a miniature toy boat passes the Navy PBR. Lance tries to grab it out of the water. The Chief yells at him to leave it alone claiming it's a booby trap. To prove it the Chief fires some shots at it to which it explodes.
When the P.B.R. reaches Do-lung bridge, the soldier that greets them gives a more detailed explanation of the chaos around the bridge.
When Lance is reading his letters on the boat, he suddenly stops to machine gun a water buffalo on the shore. The Chief yells at him to stop.
The sequence where Clean is killed is omitted.
A slightly longer French plantation sequence. After the French woman strips she crawls into the bed with Willard and they begin kissing.
The sequence where the Chief is killed is omitted.
More dialogue between Willard and the photojournalist when they first reach the Kurtz compound. The Journalist reveals that it was HE who was able to get the montangnards to break off their attack on the boat in the previous scene. Willard repeatedly asks the Journalists name but he refuses to answer.
The character of Colby, (the soldier who was sent before Willard to kill Kurtz, played by Scott Glenn) has a much more substantial role in this version. As Willard inspects the compound, Colby tells Willard that the night before, NVA soldiers had attacked (which explains all the bodies laying about the compound). Willard then enters Kurtz's house, much to the dismay of the journalist. Willard sees Kurtz empty bed and his medals, also his journal with the inscription "Drop the bomb, exterminate them all" (many of these scenes were in the final version but re-inserted in different places).
The scene where Willard talks to Chef about the air strike on the boat is omitted.
In this version. The first time Kurtz appears is the scene where a mud caked Willard is tied up (seated) to a pole in the rain. Kurtz appears with camouflage face paint, Willard asks...."Why he is being mistreated?" and tries to bluff his way past Kurtz by telling him that he had just completed a secret mission in Cambodia, and only stopped for supplies. Kurtz says nothing to him, but plants Chef's head in his lap. (Only a portion of this scene was in the original version).
The scene where Willard meets Kurtz in his bed chamber contains more dialogue....as Kurtz makes it clear that he knows why Willard is there.
A scene where Kurtz talks to Willard in the bamboo cage while two children sit on top of the cage and dangle insects in Willard's face. He tells him that Willard is "like his colleagues in Washington, master liars who want to win the war but don't want to appear as immoral or unethical".
A lengthy scene where the montangnards in a ritualistic display pick up the bamboo cage (with Willard inside) and poke him with sticks (Lance and Colby participate in this). The natives dance around the bamboo cage, chanting and singing while a squealing pig is tied up and killed.
A 10 minute version of the scene where Kurtz reads the poem "The Hollow Men", intercutting between his reading and the journalist talking with Willard.
A scene where the journalist meets Willard to tell him that he thinks Kurtz is about to kill him because he took his picture again. During which Colby comes behind the journalist and shoots him three times, killing him. Willard throws a knife at Colby's stomach to which he falls, but before he dies he asks Willard to talk to his family for him and asks him to kill Kurtz.
Kurtz speech about the horror and the children vaccination are omitted.
During the assassination scene at the end, before Willard enters Kurtz' home, one of the guards confronts him. Willard picks up a spear to defend himself as the guard picks up a child to shield himself. Willard runs the spear right through the child and into the guard. The final scene with Willard and the montangnards after Kurtz assasination are omitted.

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link

Hold on...there's kissing in the longer version?

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I like the original version better, but it's not like any of the versions are "great" due to the ludicrous last 30 minutes of the film.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:49 (thirteen years ago) link

omg, Alex and I are united!

That French plantation scene is HORRENDOUS.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:52 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah the "Redux" additions range from negligible to irritating to awful.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:56 (thirteen years ago) link

Pity they could have excised Marlon's character completely and replaced him with someone who ya know gave a shit.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:57 (thirteen years ago) link

I liked the seduction scene at the plantation.

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 18:59 (thirteen years ago) link

I got Redux for my birthday three or four years ago, and still haven't taken it out of the wrapper.

josh in sf (stfu kthx), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:48 (thirteen years ago) link

i hated redux so much it made me hate the original!

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link

i wonder what ppl who hate the ending would like to replace it with?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link

i have come the realization that i dont like most films from the 70s. does this revoke my film snob membership?

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

"i wonder what ppl who hate the ending would like to replace it with?"

SOMETHING GOOD WITHOUT MARLON BRANDO!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Not liking films from the 70s is crazee though. By far my favorite American film decade.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link

i know! i feel like i just came out of the closet.

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link

i like loads of films from the 70s but it does get a bit overrated at times, i could do without hearing about that "easy riders raging bulls" bullshit for the rest of my life.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link

the plantation scene just killed the movie's momentum i found.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link

dont use past tense

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link

i was referring specifically to when i saw the movie.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link

the original, but wow: how can you separate the Brando-Kurtz denouement from Coppola's conceptualization? The film was a mess at the script stage; no amount of salvaging would have saved it. At its best it's a fantastic mess.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link

I haven't seen Redux. Do I need to?

Adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:10 (thirteen years ago) link

nah

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:11 (thirteen years ago) link

ok!

I'm suddenly realizing how short life is, I think.

Adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link

"how can you separate the Brando-Kurtz denouement from Coppola's conceptualization?"

Clearly Coppola did not conceive of Marlon Brando weighing six-billion pounds and having to be shot entirely in shadow so I think it's pretty easy to separate them.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah man, let me tell you. oh Bela Tarr, i hope we rendezvous in heaven. (xp)

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link

The sacred cows are shaking in their...hoofs(?)!

Adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link

you guys are crazy. i can't believe i'm the only one here to find redux so much better/complete than the other one (which was only like it is because it had to be showed at cannes and they were very late).

Poison(Ivy) (PoisonIvy), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:07 (thirteen years ago) link

Clearly Coppola did not conceive of Marlon Brando weighing six-billion pounds and having to be shot entirely in shadow so I think it's pretty easy to separate them.

Even if he looked like Paul Newman, the Brando sequences are, written and filmed, portentious, ponderous, and camp.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:13 (thirteen years ago) link

True, but I think part of the reason they were written and filmed that way was because they had to "cover-up" the fact that Brando looked like he'd been having two cheeseburger lunchers at Chez Excessive rather than starving in the jungle and terrorizing the Viet-Cong.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:19 (thirteen years ago) link

I love Chez Excessive but you wait HOURS for a table.

Adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Not when you are Marlon. They clear out the entire back part of the dining for him.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link

I like the Brando scenes in the original, myself. My problems are more with the ideas expressed by the movie in general (as spelled out in the link above), even by some of the best scenes.

I also like the way Redux moves and feels with the extra footage (especially the sex), but the Plantation scene is ludicrous as history and politics.

Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 8 March 2006 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link

Clearly, the best version of Apocalypse Now is Hearts Of Darkness

The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 9 March 2006 01:25 (thirteen years ago) link

My friend who is like Dr. Morbius' age mentioned that the inhabitants of the plantation are supposed to be ghosts when we briefly chatted about this a few weeks ago... I'm like "Link pls/YSI?" but we were in the middle of a dank LES dive bar.

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 9 March 2006 01:38 (thirteen years ago) link

Clearly, the best version of Apocalypse Now is Hearts Of Darkness

OTMFM

"I swallowed a bug!" = pure poetry.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 9 March 2006 01:43 (thirteen years ago) link

Carmine Coppola's score is not present in this version.

ooh, i like the sound of that version!

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Thursday, 9 March 2006 12:58 (thirteen years ago) link

Redux is not good, the added scenes add nothing except a little soft-core porn and just make the film even more unwieldy than it already was. (I'm wondering whether director's cuts are ever as good as the original, except in flagrant cases of studio-butchering).

Even if he looked like Paul Newman, the Brando sequences are, written and filmed, portentious, ponderous, and camp.

Although on reflection I accept all that, I still think those scenes work. Some of the campness in fact makes it all the more menacing.

jz, Thursday, 9 March 2006 13:07 (thirteen years ago) link

six years pass...

Only just saw Redux for the first time tonight. Can't say the plantation scene bothered me much; it's a nice little breather in fact. It'd been so long since I'd seen the original that I didn't even recognize that the other new stuff was even new. 200 and some mins is quite a butt numbing length, though, and AN is already a draining enough experience as it is. Still, can't really say I have a preference of one over the other.

Also, young Fishburn = CUTE!

this is the dream of avril and chad (jer.fairall), Saturday, 22 September 2012 03:42 (six years ago) link

i remember hating the plantation scene and the ending, but except for those flaws, I love this movie!

did drake invent yolo (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 22 September 2012 05:37 (six years ago) link

four years pass...

fucking thing looks absolutely incredible in 1080/BluRay; a fact i only realized this week.

piscesx, Saturday, 17 June 2017 10:14 (two years ago) link

two years pass...

Off to see the new 4K Final Cut 'with Dolby Atmos' tonight on the tallest IMAX screen in the uk! Most excited i've been for a revival for a long time. The removal of the dreaded extended Playboy bunnies sequence seems to be going down well.

piscesx, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 01:14 (five days ago) link


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