S/D: Gay movies of arty qualities

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Are any even as satisfying as gay movies of porny qualities? I mean, sure, there's Un Chant d'amour and Pink Narcissus, but what else?

What is it about the really good ones (i.e. Tropical Malady or maybe Happy Together) that always inspires the demand "don't shoehorn them into those limited sexual alignments"? Like, they have to be bad to be "gay"?

... or should this be "Defend the Indefensible"? (Heap as much scorn on this thread as you can on the likes of Get Real and All Over the Guy.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:36 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, I understand why there has to be a couple "very special afterschool special" type gay movies for the adolescents in the closet, but why do they have to dominate the niche? Why does every few years bring a bunch of PR nonsense about "this is totally new: a gay movie that doesn't treat it like an issue"?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link

there is something a bit odd about classifying movies in this way. it makes sense if you're a programmer or (maybe) critic, you can have a nice festival strand put together out of 'gay cinema', but... i dunno.

N_RQ, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah. That might be why the few seconds in Ladder 49 that Jay Hernandez had everyone believing he was gay were way hotter than all of Testosterone... even the split-second peek at Antonio Sabato's junior.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Passing Glances?

i'd love to see the Genet film. is it available on DVD?

jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

In R2 if you have a region-free DVD player.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:44 (eighteen years ago) link

god 'ladder 49' was bad (i'd say 'gay' were i a noise dude).

N_RQ, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Swoon is really good.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:52 (eighteen years ago) link

There are 1000s:
Querelle (and in some sense all of Fassbinder)
Death in Venice, Ludwig (Visconti is always arty, soemtimes gay)
Salo (and most of the rest of Pasolini's output)
Last of England (Jarman defines arty/gay)
The whole Warhol/Paul Morrissey output
I'd count all of Larry Clark and Gus Van Sant
John Maybury's Bacon film (more gay than arty, though Maybury is very arty)


Guy Beckett (guy), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 15:08 (eighteen years ago) link

S:

Taxi zum Klo
A Thousand Clouds of Peace...


Jed, that's PARTING Glances, and nothing in it approaches Steve Buscemi's level.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link

'The Leather Boys' is a good 1963 kitchen sink social drama about motorcycle clubs around London... it has gay overtones without any nasty scenes. I can't understand a word anyone is saying but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

andy --, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Young Soul Rebels?

JTS, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 21:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm not really a fan, but Flaming Creatures might qualify.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

There's an old flick called Becket with Peter O'Toole & Richard Burton that's about King Henry II that has gay undertones, but done in such a subtle manner so as not to offend the masses in the '60s when it was made. Anyone see this?

Wiggy (Wiggy), Thursday, 22 September 2005 00:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I haven't, but there are similar undertones in The Lion In Winter between Anthony Hopkins and Timothy Dalton (uh, that was a spoiler). But it's hardly a big feature of the film.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 September 2005 00:46 (eighteen years ago) link

"I'd count all of Larry Clark and Gus Van Sant"

'finding forrester'?

N_RQ, Thursday, 22 September 2005 07:34 (eighteen years ago) link

gay movies are for faggots :rolleyes:

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ!!!!!, Thursday, 22 September 2005 11:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Mrs. Doubtfire 2 is scheduled to come out next year. I don't know if it will be too arty.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Probably more arty than gay.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:16 (eighteen years ago) link

and probably better than Robin Williams in The Birdcage

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:22 (eighteen years ago) link

it is taking all of my will power not to start an arty movies of gay qualities thread. just thought i would share that.


whatshisface from TLA, who literally wrote the book on gay/queer cinema(and it's a fascinating book), always put together really cool bills for the gay film festival in philly every year. there is SO much out there. and yeah, some is horrible, but that is true of everything.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I wanted to modify the "search/destroy" diad to "pitch/catch," or something like that.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I love Flaming Creatures, esp when the Magnetic Fields showed it before a gig at Bowery Ballroom and their 'sophisticated' gay and homophile audience booed the shit out of it.

Tho some might say 'not gay enuf,' I would mention Jenni Olson's "The Joy of Life," which has played in far too few cities.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0436457/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2005 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Search:

Farewell My Concubine
Beau travail (it's not just a "gay film", but the gay theme is very strong, though mostly under the surface)
Half of Almodovar
Gods and Monsters
Lilies
Family Pack
Replay (La Répétition)
Surrender Dorothy
Suddenly (Tan de repente)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 22 September 2005 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Which would have been pitch and which would have been catch, Eric?

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:10 (eighteen years ago) link

In the City Without Limits (en la ciudad sin limites) was great.
Also, are we just talking boys here? Because Show me Love rules.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Some movies both pitch and catch.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Yet this is not true in baseball, except with amateurs.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:30 (eighteen years ago) link

>Some movies both pitch and catch.<

Or as teh Scarecrow said to Dorothy, "Some people go both ways."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

What about Bruce LaBruce? Heavy on the porn side, but arguably qualifies as arty too. S: Super 8 1/2.

xero, Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

does anyone remember postcards from america? the movie someone made out of david wojnarowicz's writings? i really dug it at the time. i wanna see it again and see if i still like it.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:55 (eighteen years ago) link

IMDB's plot keywords for Postcards From America:


* Homosexual
* Independent Film
* Gay Interest
* Abandoned Building
* Adolescent
* Art Collector
* Brutality
* Childhood Friend
* Christmas
* Cruising
* Desert
* Domestic Violence
* Drag Queen
* Forest
* Gay Bar
* Gay Bashing
* Gun
* Highway
* Interview
* Kennedy Assassination
* Lake
* Male Nudity
* Memory
* Movie Theater
* New York City
* Prostitution
* Rape
* Same Sex Situation
* Same Sex Union
* Semi Autobiographical
* Small Town
* Truck Driver
* Violence
* Water
* Hitch Hiker
* Non Linear
* Pay For Sex
* Pick Up
* Porno Theater
* Sexual Imagery
* Sun Bathing
* Male Prostitute
* Depression
* Sadomasochism


scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link

no kenneth anger?

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 22 September 2005 15:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Silverlake Life if "arty" = "gritty, lo-fi mid-80s documentary"

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 22 September 2005 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Farewell My Concubine bothered me in '93 and when I re-watched recently. Another Ill-Fated Suffering Fag movie at the core, like The Children's Hour with eye-popping visuals.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2005 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow. Postcards from America has Christmas cruising and non-liner sex-for-pay with hitchhikers!

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 September 2005 15:10 (eighteen years ago) link

water drops on burning rocks

joseph (joseph), Thursday, 22 September 2005 20:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Gregg Araki's The Living End

xero, Thursday, 22 September 2005 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I haven't seen The Celluloid Closet, but that's supposed to be pretty great.

search..uh.. Midnight Cowboy? The Conformist? Dog Day Afternoon? I guess those are just movies with gay people in them, though haha

I watched most of Latter Days with my last roommate. He didn't seem to find it all to, er, edifying, so.. destroy.

poortheatre (poortheatre), Thursday, 22 September 2005 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link

this thread makes me want to go rent apartment zero.

this site is funny:

http://campblood.org/

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 September 2005 00:44 (eighteen years ago) link

and don't forget about my hero!!! I STILL haven't seen the sisterhood!! can you believe it? :

http://www.tlavideo.com/templates/results_list.cfm?v=0&sn=1&pid=8358

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 September 2005 00:52 (eighteen years ago) link

You KNOW you want to see Ring Of Darkness:


"It all starts when the lead singer of a boy band just doesn't fit into the team anymore. So they do what all good boy bands do, the underwear-clad studs gather round the singer and suck his blood dry. To replace the lead singer the band, and their manager played with calm poise by Adrienne Barbeau (the actress, currently on "Carnavale" on HBO, is known for creating the role of Rizzo in Grease and playing Maude's daughter in the '70s TV show) decide to hold public concerts. Creating a sort of reality TV situation they select three contestants and invite the hunky boys to their private island where they will select the new singer. Immediately, there's friction with a girlfriend, a hero boy with a guitar on his back and lots of 6-pack abs and raised shirts. When the "good" contestant Shawn finds a secret cave with voodoo dolls, tons of candles, a torture rack and mysterious band photos, there's hell to pay."

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 September 2005 00:55 (eighteen years ago) link

http://campblood.org/

OMG! That reminds me of a movie whose credentials as arty or gay are on probation, but Sleepaway Camp is the best slasher movie!

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 23 September 2005 04:20 (eighteen years ago) link

seriously now i'm getting kinda puzzled why none of you seem to know kenneth anger.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 September 2005 06:01 (eighteen years ago) link

...Because I haven't been on this thread yet?

First gay fillum per se is Basil Dearden's Victim, starring Dirk Bogarde as a homo barrister in the days before Wolfenden, being scared to shit because bad men were bribing him with cottage photos. It's amazing. It's also on PBS affiliates about once every year, usually in a season with The Servant and other class-based dramas.

Also Paris is Burning seems to speak to/about the years I lived in NYC.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 23 September 2005 07:16 (eighteen years ago) link

still no anger, suzy.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 September 2005 07:22 (eighteen years ago) link

I was gonna mention movies like Victim (which is indeed amazing for a film made in 1960), Show Me Love (the best lesbian flick ever?), Beautiful Thing, etc, but I didn't think they were what Eric was after, since they're more "socially conscious" than "arty".

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 23 September 2005 07:27 (eighteen years ago) link

I admit I was using "arty" as something of a red herring. Beautiful Thing is a lot better than most of the other coming out teen dramas.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 23 September 2005 08:42 (eighteen years ago) link

"Victim" was on Channel 4 last week, what a great 60s UK cast: Bogarde, Sylvia Syms (what a babe!), Dennis Price, Anthony Nicholls, Peter Copley, Norman Bird, Peter McEnery, Donald Churchill, Derren Nesbitt (hooray!), John Cairney (!), Nigel Stock, Charles Lloyd Pack, Frank Thornton ...

Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 23 September 2005 08:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Anger's on the astrology thread

tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I was curious if that was worth a watch ... I prefer the Hulu show Love Victor (more or less) to its major motion picture antecedent Love Simon.

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:19 (one year ago) link

I just read the first volume of the Hearstopper graphic novel, and have the other three on hold at the library. I'm not sure how much the first season of the series (or is it a "limited series?") covers, but I'm thinking I should hold off on starting the series until I finish up the books.

Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:31 (one year ago) link

It covers the first two volumes. A friend praised the fidelity to the source.

What'd you think? As I wrote on Facebook, I grinned from ear to ear by the time I reached the last episode's revelations. Nice to see bisexuality given a boost too: no equivocations, no this-is-just-a-way-station bullshit.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:34 (one year ago) link

I also appreciated how Nick Nelson might be one of the few recent genuinely nice characters successfully presented.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:36 (one year ago) link

The first volume was really sweet. It may border on slight--although I am told the series eventually moves beyond just two boys making goo-goo eyes at each other--but I nevertheless appreciate its (relatively) angst-free presentation of queer joy.

Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:42 (one year ago) link

Except for Nick's mom (nicely played by Olivia Colman) the parents are non-entities; however, Charlie's friends are fully fleshed out.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 April 2022 15:46 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

hoooooly shit I just watched ZERO PATIENCE (1993), a very wacky and surreal musical in which noted explorer Sir Richard Burton drank from the fountain of youth and lives forever and is making a documentary about AIDS' Patient Zero? Please watch this. It's on Criterion Channel at the moment.

music for A★TEENS’ musicians (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 13 June 2022 16:38 (one year ago) link

That's been a blind spot of mine for years and years. Will happily check out soon.

Eggs Benedick (Eric H.), Monday, 13 June 2022 17:02 (one year ago) link

ten months pass...

Daniel Craig plays an outcast American expat who lives in Mexico, and Drew Starkey stars as a younger man with whom he becomes madly infatuated, in Luca Guadagnino’s next film ‘QUEER.’

Filming begins this month in Italy. pic.twitter.com/jfUiDC2QAG

— Film Updates (@FilmUpdates) April 21, 2023

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Sunday, 23 April 2023 12:15 (seven months ago) link

I detest cheap sentiment.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 April 2023 12:25 (seven months ago) link

Or a book full of clippings?

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Sunday, 23 April 2023 15:20 (seven months ago) link

Or a salted peanut.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 April 2023 15:22 (seven months ago) link

Daniel Craig leaning into gay roles now makes good on how hot he was in Enduring Love and Munich

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Sunday, 23 April 2023 15:29 (seven months ago) link

and Infamous, the first movie where I went hubba-hubab.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 April 2023 15:32 (seven months ago) link

this would make for a fun movie tie-in version of the book, if that's still a thing

soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Sunday, 23 April 2023 15:35 (seven months ago) link

three months pass...

Passages proving surprisingly divisive amongst my Letterboxd gays

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:42 (three months ago) link

Your response?

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:52 (three months ago) link

(I watch it on Saturday)

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:52 (three months ago) link

Still on my to-watch list, sadly, but I expect it opens here before too long. Meanwhile, I'll be reviewing Rotting in the Sun soon enough.

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:54 (three months ago) link

(Oh crap, Passages has opened here. Will try to see it this weekend.)

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 20:58 (three months ago) link

i enjoyed it!

donna rouge, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 21:04 (three months ago) link

Another gay arty short I've seen tons of enthusiasm over: https://letterboxd.com/film/the-taking-of-jordan-all-american-boy/

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 21:05 (three months ago) link

I really liked Passages too. Must've been the Ira Sachs thread that I posted on.

soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 22:13 (three months ago) link

Ira Sachs has quietly created an intelligent little gay oeuvre

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 August 2023 22:16 (three months ago) link

he really has

Dan S, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 22:21 (three months ago) link

He’s one of the under-the-radar directors whose films I’ve recently enjoyed getting to know, like Celine Sciamma (who was not talked about much until the last few years), Eliza Hittman, and Jessica Hausner. I don’t think any of those directors have taken a wrong step yet. All of their films have been very understated but also interesting

Dan S, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 22:42 (three months ago) link

I would put Ulrich Seidl in that category as well, and maybe some others. His films aren't gay as such but have a very queer sensibility

Dan S, Tuesday, 15 August 2023 23:53 (three months ago) link

I watched Weekend (2011) tonight. Pretty good!

jaymc, Friday, 18 August 2023 03:45 (three months ago) link

Well, except that Weekend is still within the last 10 years and I know it's too normcore and hetero for the room but fuck off and enjoy it.
― "Minneapolis" (barf) (Eric H.), Wednesday, March 28, 2018 11:32 PM (five years ago)

ibid

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Friday, 18 August 2023 11:28 (three months ago) link

I really loved Passages - Franz Rogowski is a force of nature.

I also loved L'immensita, a semi-autobiographical Italian trans coming of age story by Emanuele Crialese, which has got otherwise mixed reviews. Everyone has focused on Penelope Cruz, but the non-actor kid in the central role is sensational.

Piedie Gimbel, Friday, 18 August 2023 13:02 (three months ago) link

I agree with everything, except I also liked Penelope Cruz in that movie.

Blecch on Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 August 2023 16:49 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

All of Us Strangers splitting my arty gays about as much as Passages did. When was the last arty gay movie that got universal arty-gay praise?

Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Friday, 20 October 2023 13:12 (one month ago) link

four weeks pass...

The majority of arty gays are wrong about All of Us Strangers btw. I loved it.

active spectator of ecocide and dispossession (Eric H.), Friday, 17 November 2023 18:35 (one week ago) link

why didn't the arty gays like Passages?

A sampling:

What’s worse, the ego of the filmmaker in the movie or the ego of the filmmaker making the movie?

is this person hot enough to justify their horrible behavior?: the movie

This is a major problem for contemporary film culture in which actors are hired for their social identity and limited to it. Gay actors are bamboozled into invasive, distasteful postures the same way black actors are bamboozled into defensiveness. They are forced to find their way through politicized stereotypes according to the era’s fashion — where their humanity and creativity have been traduced and politicized.

This desolate view of hapless people is extreme, consistent with Sachs’s interest in sexual compulsion (The Delta, Keep the Lights On), but it also smacks of humorless, radical progressivism. Pedro Almodóvar’s self-critical Pain and Glory was also emotional, erotic, and funny, with a wonderful, fully fleshed performance by Antonio Banderas and a range of lovers holding on to their humanity. But instead of bringing his characters close, Sachs brandishes topicality: After Thomas and Martin’s last squabble over infidelity, Sachs features a West Hollywood rainbow-flag poster that blares,“No More Abuse of Our Rights, Dignity,” “Police Officers Not Storm Troopers,” “Blue Fascism Must Go,” and “Stop Illegal Search and Seizure.”

Those slogans are clearer than the relationships in Passages. These progressive libertines are miserable yet smug. Sachs salutes their headlong independence in the closing sequence where his camera tracks alongside Thomas’s bicycle ride across Paris. It’s also smug, recalling Woody Allen running through New York streets at the end of Manhattan but without the Chaplinesque payoff. Sachs has not perceived or created recognizable people in Passages but is selling politicized sexual types — perhaps, ultimately, a misperception of homosexuality. It’s like an adult version of Disney’s grooming agenda. Is this a harbinger of social propaganda to come?

active spectator of ecocide and dispossession (Eric H.), Friday, 17 November 2023 19:04 (one week ago) link

OK you got me, the last one's 4rm0nd

active spectator of ecocide and dispossession (Eric H.), Friday, 17 November 2023 19:04 (one week ago) link

Disney's grooming agenda

of the three samples eric posted: first one i don't get (sachs is hardly the fassbinder type?), second one is weaksauce "critique" (someone was horrible? in a movie???), third one is...well, armond

donna rouge, Friday, 17 November 2023 20:31 (one week ago) link

I also liked All of us strangers - hard to resist if you grew up in the 80s suburbs listening to Pet Shop Boys. Kind of a queer spooky sibling to Eternal Daughter.

Piedie Gimbel, Friday, 17 November 2023 23:35 (one week ago) link

Mescal and Scott did a q&a at my screening and their mutual affection was almost as moving as the film!

Piedie Gimbel, Friday, 17 November 2023 23:38 (one week ago) link

i recommend paul b. preciado’s new godardian recasting of woolf’s orlando into the current-day trans milieu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpGFplNRUmc

donna rouge, Saturday, 18 November 2023 05:36 (one week ago) link

Def my favorite key art of the year

active spectator of ecocide and dispossession (Eric H.), Saturday, 18 November 2023 14:47 (one week ago) link

Man, Saltburn sounds awful

active spectator of ecocide and dispossession (Eric H.), Tuesday, 21 November 2023 21:10 (one week ago) link

promising young woman was godawful, guess we’re in for more

ivy., Tuesday, 21 November 2023 21:29 (one week ago) link

It's definitely less than the sum of its parts. (Its parts being Brideshead Revisited, The Talented Mr. Ripley and Gormenghast.) Great casting, lovely main location, song choices that a little TOO obvious at points.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 November 2023 21:36 (one week ago) link

But basically I forgot I saw it within a couple of days. I was thinking "Wait didn't I see a movie this past Monday...oh yeah right."

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 November 2023 21:37 (one week ago) link

didn't really have any interest in seeing saltburn till I saw Ned's post that added gormenghast to the brideshead/ripley comparisons had already heard - now sounds gloriously bad and i wanna see

H in Addis, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 02:59 (six days ago) link

Barry Keoghan could make a great Steerpike. This attempt at a variant, well...

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 04:31 (six days ago) link

Silverlake Life if "arty" = "gritty, lo-fi mid-80s documentary"

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:07 AM (eighteen years ago)

gygax! OTM, absolute doomwatch that turned entire cinemas into weeping masses

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 04:40 (six days ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.