Buses......Maps.....Lists of Questions.....You gotta love this ILX! Pls help me with dissertation

a) what is a bus stop for?
Place to get on a bus.
b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?
Look at front of bus/look at map on bus stop/ask driver/read timetable leaflet.
c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?
Not if I can help it.
d) would you value having information about bus routes?
Yes.
e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.
Schematic with ALL stops marked.
f) do you care about having bus information?
Yes.
g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?
If unfamiliar journey yes.
h) can you understand present information?
Maps are not detailed enough usually.
i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?
Times I guess.
j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?
It's a necessary part of the service. Not willing to pay, because good information will increase use of service and benefit drivers who won't have to answer qs all the time.
k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?
Impersonal means please!

The obvious question is that it's a fixed point along a route, at which a bus will stop to pick up or set down passengers - but I've always thought they were a pretty silly idea because their location isn't always convenient. When I lived in Hong Kong, I loved the way you could flag down a minibus, pay a standard fare no matter how far you travelled on it, and then ask the driver to stop when you wanted to get off. Obviously the minibuses followed specific routes, but you could get on or off at any point. The thing to shout was "yau lok", meaning something like "I get off!", but the drivers would stop no matter what you shouted. An Australian friend of mine always yelled "kangaroo!" when he wanted to stop the bus.

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?

I don't travel much by bus. I have local knowledge of sopme routes, but generally look up timetables/routes/fares on the web if I need to use public transport

c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?

Yes, sometimes. I can get nervous if I'm not sure where I'm going, though not as bad as my best friend who will repeatedly ask people on a bus if it's the one to such-and-such a place, because she's always convinced she's got on the wtong one or has gone past her stop.

d) would you value having information about bus routes?

Yes. Always useful.

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.

I like proper maps, showing roads and landmarks I am familiar with.

f) do you care about having bus information?

Only when I have to travel somewhere new by bus, and I'm not familiar with the route or times

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?

Local buses - no
Long distance bus travel - yes.

h) can you understand present information?
Do you mean do I understand the timetables/route information currently available? Yes.

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?

Not really. They're both important, unless you travel frequently on just one route in which case them the times would be more important.

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?

Accurate information is vital. No, I would not pay for it as I consider it to be an integral part of ther service which the byus company should be offering its passengers

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?

I prefer getting information from the internet, although it would be useful for the sites to say when the info was last updated - I got caught out recently looking for bus routes/times around Oxford, and the website listed routes which had been discontinued several months ago. Annoying.

I don't mind talking to a person to get bus time/route information, but the drawbacks are that it can often take a long time to get through to a customer service telephone number, and you can sometimes end up talking to someone in a call centre miles (or continents) away who has no local knowledge, and that's unhelpful.

Queueing up to get on the bus.

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?

I check the maps on the bus shelter.

c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?

Check the London transport website. Or just ask ILX.

d) would you value having information about bus routes?

Of course. It is one of the great arcane mysteries of London!

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.

Schematic all the way. Spider Maps RULE. If I want geographical information, I'll consult my AtoZ. Spider maps should be as simple as possible.

f) do you care about having bus information?

Obviously.

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?

If I know ahead that I will have to take an unfamiliar bus. Or, if I have to take busses which don't run very frequently.

h) can you understand present information?

Mostly.

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?

If I had to make a choice, I'd pick the route information. Because most of the time the schedules just say "every 6 to 8 minutes" (yeah, right) and the few times that times are listed, they never run on schedule anyway.

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?

Infomation is PART OF THE SERVICE. No, I would not pay for it. Busses are expensive enough as it is!

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?

Impersonal means, definitely. I hate having to ask a human.

A place you know a bus will stop at so you can get off or on, they also often provide timetable information and shelter from the rain.

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?

Route maps or by asking someone, driver or local.

c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?

Route maps or by asking someone, driver or local.

d) would you value having information about bus routes?

If I needed to use them, yes.

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.

Schematic, cartographical representations are unnecessary.

f) do you care about having bus information?

If I need to use a bus then yes.

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?

Depends on the time and location i'm taking the bus, at night or on a sunday yes also in an unfamiliar place.

h) can you understand present information?

Yes

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?

No one is useless without the other

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?

Essential, pay for it? It's in the bus companys best interests to provide it it should be free and easy to access, like all information.

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?

Both should be available, as long as the information on the screens is accurate. Realtime information on bus locations, ETAs, route changes etc should be easily possible these days.

Your Dundee site seems to have an XML problem

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Are you sure you don't mean "No -- one is useless without the other" !!! ?

interesting to see that people feel bus information "should" be provided. UK people, who should be providing it do you think? bus companies (ie you feel that it is commercially important) or local authorities/public sector agencies (ie you feel it is a sort of social obligation)? this stricy dichotomy is a bit less clear in london, granted. i too feel that information "should" be provided, but bus companies dont seem to think its worth their while, at least not at-stop, and the public sector needs to be convinced that it will increase patronage or pay for itself. which current research shows that it might not, really.

In some cities in Belgium the buses are (or were) free.

(Just kidding. I would never stalk Simon LeBon. I am not a Bad Fan. Besides, Nick is far more my type anyway.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4749021.stm

my first question sounds a bit weird, but ive ben hinking about it lately. to me a bus stop is the "access node" (not my words, naptan's), a point that symbolises the bus network, and consequently acts as an advert for the bus network. if im in holland and see clear, comprehensive bus information at a clean bus shelter, that leads me to make certain assumptions about the way buses run in holland. If i see a shelter with graffitti, broken glass, and piss in the corner with a display case with nothing in it, then i make judgements about buses in the UK.

further to that, what roles can a bus stop play? ive been thinking about making bus stops more of a useful place. what if post boxes were located near bus stops? in russia, most bus stops have kiosks selling beer, bread etc (this is pure market forces driving that!) for instance.

what if bus stops were more like train stations? what if the name of the bus stop was writ large, a brand for that bus stop?

as for free buses in belgium, i went on a tour of hasselt's free buses! very fun!

i like your analogy archel, i have used one of selling a tv without providing instructions. and yet bus companies dont seem to think they need to do so, not comprehensively (ie at bus stops). come to think of it, why do tv manufacturers provide instructions? how much tv sales drop if they stopped printing instructions?

nrq: you can (sort of) get that! its called personal travel planning, or something. they like going into businesses more than doing homes though. also, you dont have to imagine a bus company that doesnt tell you where buses go, there are loads, for instance, there are 13800 bus stops in west yrokshire, and only timetables (let alone anything else) at 4000!

http://www.stareat.us/eric/images/waiting-at-the-bus-stop.jpg

vs

http://www.iit.edu/~misa/102/images/StPancras.jpg

do i have to spell it out?!

maybe bus stops should have hotels attached to them.

when you approach a bus stop, the only signifier is the bus flag, whihc does sometimes have a stop name but its in small letters, and difficult to read from afar. it doesnt have a clear sense of location, and is even less identifiable from inside a bus.

x-post to SGS

(I was looking at the AtoZ, thinking... Battersea? Fulham? Am I losing my mind? Where is that thing?)

xpost I used to think they were building some kind of spaceship-launcher in front of MI5/6. It reminds me of an american diner or an airstream caravan.

ihttp://www.vision4vauxhall.org.uk/Bus%20Station%201.jpg

hmm, dunno how they would name the bus stops i use. 'opposite archway video' and 'next to the boogaloo'.

there are bus stops at like 50m intervals in london.

when i was thinking about the names i was principally thinking of bus stops with shelters. from atco good practice guidelines

"The name of the bus stop is important because it enables people to learn various locations and identify them. It is also important for bus stops to have recognisable names to enable future olutions providing information on vehicles of the destinations that the bus stops at."

really? i will check it out. archway road =! central, i guess.

(please do not stalk me.)

I like the idea of post boxes by major bus stops.

Another nice idea might to be display (bus related, or otherwise) art at all bus stops with shelters. Hopefully it would deter taggers, esp if the art was imaginative graffiti itself.

crazy south london.

the 'towards' signs on london bus stops are an excellent innovation.

If you're on a Routemaster, it's fine, you can ask the conductor to tell you where you are, if you're going somewhere unfamiliar. But the other busses - the drivers get angry at you if you dare to ask where the f*ck you are and are they near your stop.

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus? I make a left turn at Albequerque and then hook to the right in the Coachella Valley.

c) do you make journeys on buses that you aren't familiar with? Only if I have a reason to set out in such a peculiar direction.

d) would you value having information about bus routes? I do, and the local city bus system supplies free pamphlets called "The Ride Guide" detailing bus routes and schedules.

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? I could use a schematic with ease, but I don't think that would help Americans who lack a sense of direction and would probably need to have some idea of distances between here and there.

f) do you care about having bus information? Obviously.

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses? Yes, as I never know how early or delayed they'll be.

h) can you understand present information? Oui.

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes? It depends on the intervals in waiting to catch a bus. If they're frequent enough, I could deal with just having knowledge of the routes.

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it? Information is definitely part of the service and necessary to make public transport a more friendly and commuter-conscious experience. If I were in a major city I suppose I'd pay a small fee for purchasing a guide, but I can pick up "The Ride Guide" for free on the local buses or at many convenience stores and newspaper racks.

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human? I'd prefer impersonal means as I always feel silly for asking information from an authority at the terminal downtown.

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?
Check system map cross referenced with local street map or subway map -- whatever other info source makes up the difference (the official NYC MTA bus maps aren't very detailed).

c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?
Yes, often. This is how one BECOMES familiar, non?

d) would you value having information about bus routes?
Uh, yes? There are a whole bunch of buses in Jersey City that are privately run and have no maps or central info source. No one I knew had ever taken one. I think you only used the ones that you were taught to use (ie the one your mother/aunt/grandmother told you to take), no idea how this info was spread apart from word of mouth. They all seemed kind of dodgy to me: the lack of framework or information infrastructure (or whatever you'd call it) makes me doubt that any part of the system will function reliably and be properly supported.

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.
Prefer actual map because presumably the place I'm trying to get to is in the ACTUAL WORLD. Spider map has to be cross-referenced with street map before I can leave the house, which I do regularly but is kind of a pain in the ass.

f) do you care about having bus information?
See answer D.

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?
Plan ahead for route but not for time.

h) can you understand present information?
Yes, but I'm taking about New York, so that may or may not mean anything to you (where are you?).

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?
Routes. Absolutely routes. But then, buses here run relatively frequently, so unless it's 3am I know there'll be a bus along in 30 mins at the very very most. On the other hand, how can I get ANYWHERE I'M GOING if I don't know where the bus goes?

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?
Hey, if the service provider doesn't actually want anyone to use the service (for instance if it's a money laundering front), then they should feel free to not provide info for use. Otherwise, snap the fuck to it, I'm already paying for my passage.

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?
Printed stuff I can take away with me and peruse later. But that's just me, I think there's a generational difference somewhere because lots of people (even my mother, who isn't very old but whose thinking is peculiar) are much better at human interaction than printed matter.

All buses should have at least one printed route diagram displayed inside the bus. I find these really useful when I'm not familiar with the route.

sadly the research i looked at decided that bus passengers weren't particularly interested in "in vehicle" information, like what yr describing kate. but all this research suffers from the fact that they ask mostly regular customers who always get the 8.43 to whereever and arent really interested in anything else.
my idea for london in vehicle information was to try and hi jack those tvs theyve got in the 390 and persuade the companies to show the buses path matched to gps info, along the road, with bus stops marked. then you could see where you were going in real time.

(I like the idea of bus GPS - I mean, don't they already do something like this for those "next bus coming" schedule things? Or are those simply magicked out of guesswork? However, bus TVs, I find really disconserting. Mainly coz they're very very dull, but you CAN'T STOP WATCHING THEM!!!)

Do most places still operate on a request stop basis at least partly? You have to ring the bell if you want the bus to let you off there? This is obviously a major difference from trains, and adds to the potential anxieties of travelling an unfamiliar route if you don't have adequate info. Whereas even with small train stations you can come to a stop and look out at a nice big sign before having to decide if you're in the right place.

its funny, but we always tend to think of bus stops as departure points, but, they are also arrival points. i wonder if perhaps more could be made of this, their proximity to common amenities/attractions

b) how do you know how to get to where you want to go on a bus?

in london, the excellent spider maps. i know i dont have to plan anything, even if i dont know where i am

c) do you make journeys on buses that you arent familiar with?

yes, though obviously more on buses that i am familiar with

d) would you value having information about bus routes?

of course! knowing the information is there means i can trust it. not knowing if the information is there, means i am more likely to thing about alternative means, if in a hurry

e) if so, would you want to see this information in a geographical format (eg a map) or a schematic one (eg a spider map)? bear in mind the trade off between simplicity/clarity and detail.

geo format is quite nice, but, really, its all about schematics. also most people dont necessarily have that good a sense of geography anyway. or, if in an unfamiliar place, where a map is most useful, they might not have any sense of it at all. spider maps and schematics win hands down for this

f) do you care about having bus information?

definitely!

g) do you plan ahead when catching buses?

no, but then information is good. however, if information is bad (nashville, for example), its impossible to plan, either

h) can you understand present information?

in london, certainly. west yorks are getting there too thuogh!

i) could you make a choice between having information about the times buses run or the routes?

depends how often the buses run!

j) do you think information is just a cosmetic detail? or is it part of the service? just how necessary is it? and would you be willing to pay for it?

part of the service. paying for it? through more expensive fares? possibly. i think good information gets more people using public transport though, so should be in companies interest. if the buses are seen as clean, modern, informative, then they are seen as more viable, useful etc. bus usage levels must vary quite a lot, city to city, i would imagine. where levels of usage are low, peoples confidence in the system can be increased through good information and presentation. make people realise the bus isnt a shoddy unreliable unknowable but a 21st century form of transport, able to compete with others

k) do you prefer gtting information through impersonal means (printed stuff eg timetables, screens etc) or would you prefer to get that information from a human?

interestingly, the former. in general i think the disappearance of 'people' from service information presentation is infuriating, and leads of a feeling of utter helplessness in the face of impersonal tech-bureaucracy. but in the case of transport, it can be clear, lucid, and confidence inspiring

http://www.trueform.co.uk/images/elite_mainimg.jpg

leeds has that sort of style roof too, and the "guttering" system just gets full of moss and green stuff in. i think its a bit of a flaw.

oh wait, youre talking about real grass? with flowers and stuff? i seem to remember reading something about that. have you got any pics!?!? yeah bus stops as gardens, art galleries, i just like the idea o trying to assign a role to the bus stop slightly greater than "a run down dump where you wait in the rain for a bus"

outside of london (eg chester), "next bus..." displays are operated on a GPS system, which are linked to the traffic lights and the bus control centre, so that they know where buses are, can tell you where they are, and can switch traffic signals to prioritise bus.

but london's countdown system, because its a bit older, uses roadside beacon technology, which is why it often tells complete lies.

gareth just wrote my dissertation in his second to last paragraph. except i have to find a way to prove it through numbers and Mann Whitney tests, whoever the hell that is

::drools::

That just sounds like the most wonderful thing ever. You have made my day so happy through telling me that such things exist. OK, a little less happy because it's not in London, but still.

(I always just thought they made up the "next bus" things because it bore no relation whatsoever to whatever bus came next.)

Real time passenegr information (for that is what it is called) is appearing in more and more towns, southampton, er....a bunch of other ones that I can't remember. Of course, theres been RTPI in the tube for a while now. but I think london will update it all.