David Lynch - Classic or Dud

with its Aussie soap stars, Mulholland Drive is like a lost episode, at least outdoingFire walk with Me me in episodic tension or edge (but to be fair, what can be expeced from a prequel)

Mulholland Drive is a great film for Lynch, yanking him out of his US weirdo cult niche and projecting world class ideas onto the world stage. I fail to see how it could stand a chance at BAFTA with Princess Ann on the board however (Oscars and Globes out-of-th-qn i assume).

His outsiderness, and his adoption finally by Cannes, like a Roman Polanski.

Most certainly did -- his third film after Eraserhead and The Elephant Man.

Did anyone ever see that interview he did for scene by scene - i loved the bit where he's talking about "the eye of the duck" to describe the key scene in his films.

Also i highly recommend the book "Lynch on Lynch" - so much fun!

Umm. This movie is two years old. Why are we speculating on its award chances?

*waiting for backlash*

crosspost

Yeah, quite right. I read the book a year before the movie came out so my timing was perfect there...

although, N. has had my copy of the cinema one for nearly a year, now.

cremaster's opulent mythboredom reminded me a lot of dune

Wild at Heart has a middling rep but it’s pretty good. The tangents and side stories are what really make it work for me.

Lynch has this stylistic shift in the late '90s that almost makes him seem like a different artist... Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr just have this "look & feel" that's so distinctive (and of course there's The Straight Story in between those, which is remarkable in its own way). It feels weird to say that this is where he really "takes off," obv the earlier stuff is great too, but there's something about his new sensibility that's even better (IMO), and the re-watchability is particularly high on the films in that period.

i rewatched Lost Highway again recently too after not seeing it for a good 20 years and quite liked it still. I don't try to 'solve' lynch movies. The only one I haven't had the urge to revisit is Inland Empire, which I didn't watch in one sitting the first time and have never seen in a theater. Probably would if someone would show it around here.

Inland Empire is the one that benefits the most from seeing in a theater

I still stop the film when Balthazar Getty appears.

lost highway and mulholland drive both give the general impression of coming full circle and tying up loose ends at the end via the timely repetition of certain images and lines, even if there's no traditional narrative logic to it. i never really felt like there was anything to 'solve' because of that, they solve themselves for you.

Crossposting but having put this in the Dune specific thread, new oral history of the film (with new interviews with him) now out:

https://www.1984publishing.com/bookstore/a-masterpiece-in-disarray-david-lynchs-dune-an-oral-history

xp I dunno, I feel like Mulholland Dr is pretty straightforward & comprehensible (although I recall some disagreement on this thread about what seemed to me like basic aspects of the "reveal"). By contrast, I have no "explanation" for the final act of Lost Highway, or how it all fits together.

So much of it plays like a boring reprise of Blue Velvet, with Robert Loggia playing Frank and Robert Blake playing Ben.

...I'm reading thru the booklet now, and here's Gifford quoted as saying:

I think it's a very realistic, very straightforward case study of one person who is at a loss to deal with the way things have turned out.

OK man! (Ha ha)

i think the tape of the murder is one of the most disturbing things that Lynch ever shot.

So much of it plays like a boring reprise of Blue Velvet, with Robert Loggia playing Frank and Robert Blake playing Ben.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 13, 2023 1:34 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i do not agree with this at all!!!

Yeah I don't either (sorry Alfred!)

xp

Yes, seeing Mulholland Drive on release, the final act* was immediately "oh, this is what he was going for in Lost Highway, but it works properly this time."

*(not knowing that it was a kludge to salvage a TV pilot)


Never rewatched LH until a local theatre did an all-his-features-and-some-of-the-shorts series recently, and the climax's vibes are great, but the biggest difference between how the two play is that it's impossible to give a fuck about the Pullman/Getty characters, whereas both halves of Watts are sympathetic, and clearly lock together as a whole person.

Here's Lynch in the booklet (quoted from that Lynch on Lynch book, which must be quite a tome, as so many quotes you see are drawn from it):

Mystery is good, confusion is bad, and there's a big difference between the two. I don't like talking about this too much because, unless you're a poet, when you talk about it, a big thing becomes smaller. But the clues are all there for a correct interpretation, and I keep saying that, in a lot of ways, it's a straight-ahead story. There are only a few things that are a hair off.

So I guess they both really think that! I think it's more "off" than they may realize, but I'll try to follow the "clues" more closely next time (again, the "mystery" no longer detracts from my enjoyment).

that's sorta how i've always felt, though there's something about how highway is so freewheeling and less composed than mulholland... it was the lynch film i most imagined in my head before i finally saw it, it retains a dark pull, and even though i do not give a fuck about this obtuse saxophone guy being in extreme psyche-splitting denial about killing his wife, i sure love the journey

xp to sic

It struck me that (I think?) you never see The Mystery Man and Alice together in the same frame; and after Alice walks naked into the cabin and Fred follows her, she's gone and MM is there instead... and then MM somehow shifts alliances and becomes Fred's ally against Dick Laurent (after Alice has turned on him). I feel like Alice and MM may be two sides of a coin somehow, but can't articulate how or why.

The first half of LH is as compelling as any Lynch, especially whenever Bill Pullman's playing free jazz in that club (the editing, the lighting!).

I've still only seen Lost Highway once, when it came out, and need to rewatch it. I didn't like it at the time, and in the years since it has remained in the least-favorite-Lynch slot for me (I don't really count Dune, I guess). My reaction at the time was more or less as Alfred says, it felt sort of forced and sour, in a self-conscious Lynch-being-Lynchy way. I do remember a few particular scenes and shots, it has its moments, but overall I found it off-putting.

LH is a lot better than I initially thought, but still probably my least favorite proper Lynch movie (not counting Dune). It is SO 1990's, mainly because of the soundtrack I guess, but it seems of its time in a way that his other movies aren't. It seems like he's putting in more effort but getting less out of it. I agree that the biggest problem is Pullman/Getty, especially Getty. There is zero charisma there, nobody that I am inclined to follow through their troubles. I keep watching because I want to see what happens, but I could give two shits if something bad happens to Getty's character. Patricia Arquette is so much more interesting but she's not in it enough, or not given enough to do.

I had the same reaction when watching in the theatre in 1997 and again in 2010-11 when I got the DVD. Our local repertory theater's playing it in early October, though, so I'm giving it another shot.

It seems like he's putting in more effort but getting less out of it. I agree that the biggest problem is Pullman/Getty, especially Getty. There is zero charisma there, nobody that I am inclined to follow through their troubles.

Reading the Premiere story by David Foster Wallace and about what a shit Getty was didn't help lol.

it's also a film that for a long time looked like crap on DVD; super dark, not a great transfer. I think it's been redone (I have an, ahem, 'digital file' of the film that appears to look better, don't know the source).

The Criterion Blu-ray looks pretty great to me.

yeah that's the upgrade that came later. that may be the source of what I have.

My favorite aspect about the Getty scenes are all the languorous images of back yards and sunsets fading in and out to bossa nova and trip hop cues. Getty isn't particularly sympathetic, but I like him as this dumb, hapless fuck up who never quite grasps what's going on around him. Kind of like how Pullman is perfect as this angry, snide jazz guy who never quite trusts his wife. These aren't relatable characters, but I'm not sure they're supposed to be. The tedium sets in when Pullman returns and a bunch of scenes and music cues get replayed.

Yeah I like how Getty's character (Pete) is dumb and easily manipulated; it's a nice treatment of the film noir / femme fatale trope.

If the film is really meant to be "a psychogenic fugue" (as it was encapsulated in the publicity materials) – a guy on death row imagines a whole other persona and set of events, as he dissociates from reality – there's so much "excess" in the film that it's hard to see how it reduces to that. And the details provided of Fred & Renee's life (and their "characters") are so sparse, and seemingly infected by these strange events from the beginning, that reducing the movie to "Fred murdered Renee and now he's hallucinating" feels like trying to stuff a huge inflatable bounce-house into a little box or something.

(Compare this to Mulholland Dr, where the final act is long, richly detailed, and carefully connects all, or most, of the dots an ingenious way.)

another thing I always notice about this film is how the composition of the Fred scenes tends to be extremely geometric in lots of interesting ways, but that goes away as it shifts over to Pete where things appear more naturalistic and less boxed in.

Robert Loggia is SO f'n good in this movie... just an absolute pleasure to watch.

One of my favorite Lynch sequences, and one that embodies the "feel" that I love in his work, is when Pullman describes his murder dream, with the ominous smoke drifting into the hallway. Some might accuse Lynch of recycling the same images over and over, but I'll never tire of how he shoots curtains, smoke, hallways and highways in headlights.

I like how confusing the geography of the house is, simultaneously small yet labyrinthine

Reading the Premiere story by David Foster Wallace and about what a shit Getty was didn't help lol.

Roffle. I remember reading that at the time and thinking "Well this guy's a tool."

I've always found following the clues in a Lynch film as missing-the-pointish as it would be in Antonioni or other pure vibes types. Guess according to the man himself I'm the one missing the point, lol.

Like let's say that Fred did kill Renee, and dissociates/imagines the rest in prison. Who was leaving the videotapes at their house (assuming that "really happened")? Was Fred doing that himself, even though there's no indication of such a thing? Did he really meet the Mystery Man at the party (whose face he had previously seen in a dream), or was that a hallucination? The host, Andy, also sees him, and says he's a friend of Dick Laurent's. Who said "Dick Laurent is dead" into the intercom?

If all of that is also somehow part of a retroactive "dream," you're left with the absolute barest-bones sketch of a marriage to hang the rest on. And if those things are real (as I think they're meant to be), what clues are we supposed to follow to understand it all?

I am almost sure I’ve bought more copies of LH than times I have watched it

Oh I guess I saw it at the cinema too

Watching a making-of doc… Pullman actually learned to play saxophone for his role, and memorized his two “pieces.” (I assumed it was dubbed!)

The Mystery Man is Fred's conscience. "Call me," I'm in your head right now.

He's the one making the tapes, leading Fred a few steps at a time back into the bedroom to face the truth.

Huh, thx, I’ll think that through…

Interestingly (to me), I recall having a similar reading of the role of the elderly couple in Mulholland Dr. (one of those few “extra pieces of the puzzle” in that film).

I did end up seeing Wild At Heart earlier this week. I thought it was a very enjoyable comedy. I've seen over-the-top Nic Cage a million times, but Laura Dern was absolutely boiling over as well and they clicked so well together. The rest of the cast were amazing too - Grace Zabriskie, Willem Dafoe. Jesus, what a memorable film!

One thing that I noticed throughout the movie that brought me down though, was I really feel like it used black actors as props. Of course, you have the absolutely ultra-brutal scene in the beginning where Sailor bashes his assailant's brain in. Later, in New Orleans, there is a scene where the camera just trucks across the face of an unusual-looking, older black woman who you don't see before or after. The feeling I got was "here's this weird-looking black woman - see how strange New Orleans is?" There's also a scene where they're getting gas and Lula is preening for this old black man sitting in a chair outside of the service station, and he's kinda just there to smile and show increasing excitement about how hot Lula is.

It's not the only time I've felt this about a quirky indie comedy (thinking about a lot of Coen Brothers films here), so I'm kinda halfheartedly writing it off as "those were the times..." But overall, the works of David Lynch that I'm familiar with are very white and don't engage much with race. The one exception off the top of my head is in Twin Peaks, in which you have Josie and a few other Chinese characters in her storyline, as well as Catherine Martell's undercover guise of Mr. Tojamura, both of which are pretty cringey.

Not trying to cancel Lynch here or anything. Just a few hang-ups that stood out to me in an otherwise compelling and entertaining movie. Interested to see if anybody has more charitable readings than I have.

Of course, you have the absolutely ultra-brutal scene in the beginning where Sailor bashes his assailant's brain in

I’m admittedly squeamish, but when I first watched the film (VHS rental from Hollywood Video!) I turned it off at this scene because I found it too gratuitous, in an "edgy ’90s" sort of way. Didn’t end up finishing it until I did a Lynch retrospective a few years ago in the lead up to the new Twin Peaks season.

in which you have Josie and a few other Chinese characters in her storyline, as well as Catherine Martell's undercover guise of Mr. Tojamura, both of which are pretty cringey.

Fortunately, the character of “Naido” in S3 solved this problem… NOT!!

One thing that I noticed throughout the movie that brought me down though, was I really feel like it used black actors as props.

What say you about Richard Pryor's casting in Lost Highway?

I've only seen Lost Highway once and had completely forgotten about Pryor. Can't remember what his role was. There's a good chance I'll go out to see it this Tuesday. Will keep that in mind.

can't say i've read much good writing on lynch in regard to race but i enjoyed this:

https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/david-lynch-racial-politics.html

yeah lynch is a white guy who does best just dealing with white people, frankly. Hawk is a problematic character all over the place, just native trope after native trope (made worse by the fact that Michael Horse isn't native). I mean I still love TP obviously but these elements are all cringetastic.

Horse isn't native?

it's disputed. his mother is swedish, his adoptive father is german. he has claimed to be Yaqi (from Mexico), but he's not enrolled in any tribes nor do any tribes claim him. So if he is Yaqi, that comes from his father, but he hasn't elucidated that relationship.

yikes bro.

Meantime, next week's episode on You Must Remember This in the "Erotic 90s" season will, in fact, be about Lost Highway (plus at least some discussion of Jennifer Lynch's Boxing Helena I gather.)