North Korea

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North Korea: Bush is ``half-baked hooligan bereft of any personality as a human being . . . and a Philistine whom we can never deal with.’’

Pyongyang's state-run news agency responded over the weekend with a quote from an unnamed ministry spokesman calling Mr. Bush a "dictator," a "cowboy" and a "half-baked man in terms of morality.”

I know they're shadowy Stalinists or whatnot, but they sure keep brinksmanship colorful.

andy --, Monday, 2 May 2005 21:39 (sixteen years ago) link

that thing in the new yorker a few weeks back about n. korea kidnapping a director so big kim could make godzilla movies made me fall in love with them all over again

strng hlkngtn, Monday, 2 May 2005 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link

Stalinist North Korea has stepped up its campaign against long hair and untidy attire which its media says represents a "corrupt capitalist" lifestyle, reports said.

North Korean state television, radio and newspapers have led the grooming drive, urging people to cut their hair short and to dress tidily, the BBC said in a dispatch citing broadcasts from Pyongyang.

Men were asked to have crew cuts with hair growing up to five centimeters (two inches) in a twice-a-month visit to the barber, it said.

http://secure.designerz.com/news-image.php?i=shared/lifestyle/SGE.AAB65.090105183816.photo00.quicklook.default-185x245.jpg
A North Korean soldier combs his hair at the truce village of Panmunjom

Not only health and hygiene but also intelligence was cited by the North Korean media as reasons for the crackdown on appearance.

Pyongyang television noted long hair "consumes a great deal of nutrition" and could thus rob the brain of energy, according to the BBC.

But another serious reason came from state radio which said tidy attire "is important in repelling the enemies' maneuvers to infiltrate corrupt capitalist ideas and lifestyle" in North Korea, it said.

The ruling communist party newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, even warned inappropriate appearance under foreign influence could lead to national decay.

"People who wear other's style of dress and live in other's style will become fools and that nation will come to ruin," Rodong was cited as saying.

Some North Korean TV broadcasts adopted a hidden-camera style video of longhaired men on various locations throughout Pyongyang in an unprecedented break with their usual approach.

andy --, Monday, 2 May 2005 21:50 (sixteen years ago) link

man, you gotta wonder just what is *really* going on over there, what daily life is like, etc. so bizarre.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 21:52 (sixteen years ago) link

There's a really great book I read recently on North Korea, let me dig up the info when I can (gotta catch my bus now, though).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:00 (sixteen years ago) link

In the meantime, Tombot to thread.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:00 (sixteen years ago) link

Ned's catching a bus... to a North Korean penitentiary!

donut debonair (donut), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:02 (sixteen years ago) link

sorry, but when Ned said he had to catch a bus I pictured him saying it at the top of his lungs in a Barney Gumble voice while wearing mismatched shoes and an oversized Tweety t-shirt.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:06 (sixteen years ago) link

nighty night!

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:08 (sixteen years ago) link

it's not so hard to figure out what daily life is like! it's sort of like living in a cold dark country where the state makes you get your fucking hair cut and also you're starving.

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:15 (sixteen years ago) link

It looks like S. Korea is wasting power, while N Korea is conserving natural resources, for Mother Earth's sake.

andy --, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:18 (sixteen years ago) link

"it's not so hard to figure out what daily life is like! it's sort of like living in a cold dark country where the state makes you get your fucking hair cut and also you're starving. "

so we're told, but that's bound to be a generalization, and doesn't get at how such a society sustains itself or functions internally - what do people do all day? is everyone starving to death except for some narrow upper-class echelon of rulers? if things are so horrible, why don't the people rebel? is there any resistance at all, any underground, black market? what is holding everything in place, etc.?

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:21 (sixteen years ago) link

what is holding everything in place, etc.?

umm....the blood of the proletariat? Guns?

giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link

Holy shit their official site is the slowest I've seen in years:
http://www.korea-dpr.com/

But it does have an esperanto section, unlike KFC's.

andy --, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link

I really do think that N. Korea is probably one of those places where it really IS as bad as you might think.

giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah, but we don't know. it's just a black hole. the fact that information is so tightly controlled, and that what does actually get out is so goddamned weird and preposterous, means we're left projecting our own fears and assumptions on them... we don't *really* know what's going.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:25 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah, but we don't know. it's just a black hole. the fact that information is so tightly controlled, and that what does actually get out is so goddamned weird and preposterous, means we're left projecting our own fears and assumptions on them... we don't *really* know what's going on.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:25 (sixteen years ago) link

asiatimes reported there was a riot at a world cup qualifier recently, the police were powerless. first civil disobedience in decades.

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:25 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.korea-dpr.com/index_r1_c1.jpg

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:27 (sixteen years ago) link

x-post Shaky

Oh absolutely. I still think that--unlike the USSR or China--shit is really, really bad in N. Korea. Someone already linked through this article (the nighttime pic), but it's still worth reading.

giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link

that thing in the new yorker a few weeks back about n. korea kidnapping a director so big kim could make godzilla movies made me fall in love with them all over again

you only just now found out about this, strongo?!?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link

It's funny how we were able to get a rover on Mars before we were able to get a photo of evidence of dissent in North Korea.

donut debonair (donut), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link

haha - that's awesome. Soccer, the people's sport, the great leveller...

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link

An oldie, but a goodie about life on the north side.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, didn't some American defector finally leave to South Korea? Like his wife was kidnapped from the South and the North finally granted them permission to emigrate? The US was interested in pressing charges against the guy, but it'd be cool to hear from him how shit really is.

andy --, Monday, 2 May 2005 22:34 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/GD19Dg01.html

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:38 (sixteen years ago) link

Does anyone have images of soccer riots?
the written word is a tool of the imperialist wolves, cast it away or the nation shall rot.

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link

we don't *really* know what's going on.

i don't think that's *completely* true. a number of journalists have managed to get in and get some information out despite having to be herded around by government "translators."

i sort of imagine there not being any public dissent, at all. as for private dissent, well... i get the sense that the people of north korea have been fed a very strict regimen of limited info for over 50 years and thus don't really have much sense of the outside world, or other ideologies they could counterpose to that of their nation's. so if there is private dissent i'm guessing it takes a weird intra-ideological form that we wouldn't recognize or be very happy with.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 00:35 (sixteen years ago) link

the people of north korea totally need to pitch in and get a new server.

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:19 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, didn't some American defector finally leave to South Korea? Like his wife was kidnapped from the South and the North finally granted them permission to emigrate? The US was interested in pressing charges against the guy, but it'd be cool to hear from him how shit really is.

He left to Japan. His wife was kidnapped from Japan in the 1970s along with about a dozen others. She came from a town next to the Japan Sea, and she was abducted by North Korean agents and whisked back to North Korea. It's another completely bizarre episode.

The American was in the army serving in South Korea in the 1960s. He claims that he was afraid of being sent to Vietnam, so defected to the North. The U.S. army convicted him of dissertion a few months ago, and he served a very lenient sentence that was like community service.

He did an interview with Japanese TV and described his life in North Korea in general terms. His most memorable quote was saying, "I lived like a dog." He also blasted the North Korean government for all the obvious reasons.

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:19 (sixteen years ago) link

why can I not figure out italics in HTML? Somebody please help me.

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:20 (sixteen years ago) link

it's a tricky one. you have to use i. a good way to remember this is by remembering that the first four letters of 'italics' and 'italy' and interchangeable, and interchangeable starts with i.

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:26 (sixteen years ago) link

like ithis?

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:28 (sixteen years ago) link

hahaha! I'm such an idiot!

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:28 (sixteen years ago) link

iidiot

(ok, I'll stop now)

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:29 (sixteen years ago) link

i'm kind of amazed that you even attempted that.

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, so am ii.

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Look, I'm smart

supercub, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:33 (sixteen years ago) link

There was an in depth article in Harpers a year or two ago worth finding, really brutal eye-opening stuff. And the New Yorker had that segment about the director, but I think there was a more complete article some time ago? One thing I remember reading is that it is of course impossible to stop radio transmissions coming over the border from South Korea, but most North Koreans have been taught that what they are receiving are all lies, capitalist propaganda.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:45 (sixteen years ago) link

Actually, although it is impossible to completely stop radio transmissions from South Korea, I believe that all radios sold (legally) in South Korea are required to be specially equipped to receive only the state frequency.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Actually, although it is impossible to completely stop radio transmissions from South Korea, I believe that all radios sold (legally) in North Korea are required to be specially equipped to receive only the state frequency.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:14 (sixteen years ago) link

It is a great thread title, and another grasshopper thing.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:33 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is_1830_305/ai_94044069

I assume this is the Harper's piece mentioned upthread. It's a pretty hard read.

Daniel Cohen (dayan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 08:36 (sixteen years ago) link

five months pass...
http://www.metroblogging.com/NKDelegation2005.swf

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 17:07 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.korea-dpr.com/kfa2006/KFADELEGATION05.wmv also good.

Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 17:11 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/welcome_to_north_korea.htm

This is good - it's from 2001 so some may have already seen it.

Hurting 2, Monday, 16 July 2007 03:33 (fourteen years ago) link

also good:

http://www.yhchang.com/CUNNILINGUS_IN_NORTH_KOREA.html

c sharp major, Monday, 16 July 2007 11:36 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

N. Korea Says It Is Holding Reporters

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea confirmed Saturday that it had detained two American journalists on charges of “illegally intruding” into the North through its border with China.

The journalists, Laura Ling, a Chinese-American, and Euna Lee, a Korean-American, both working for Current TV, were on a reporting trip along the border when they were detained by North Korean border guards, according to human rights activists and a South Korean news report. Their colleague, Mitch Koss, and their Chinese guide were reported to have been detained by Chinese border guards.

“A competent organ is now investigating the case,” the North’s official news agency, KCNA, said.

skamokawa WA (jergins), Saturday, 21 March 2009 19:30 (twelve years ago) link

two weeks pass...

I think your pov has a lot of validity. dprk has a firm grip on nk society and nothing happens there that is not deeply connected to internal politics.

also, watching that youtube, I couldn't help but notice that kim jong un waddles when he walks. that's irrelevant, but he's in his mid-30s for crying out loud. he needs to get more exercise.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 14 June 2018 19:08 (three years ago) link

isn't being overweight sort of a status symbol in NK?

frogbs, Thursday, 14 June 2018 19:43 (three years ago) link

I should think being head of state would be a sufficient marker of high status.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 14 June 2018 20:00 (three years ago) link

don't body-shame him

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 14 June 2018 20:12 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

long and fascinating gq piece on otto warmbier, the murky circumstances around his death, and his family's shortlived political usefulness: https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbier-north-korea-american-hostage-true-story

a Stupendous Leg of Granite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 July 2018 14:08 (three years ago) link

^ Just finished that and would highly recommend it (and came here to post it, when it's almost certainly an open tab in my browser because of this thread)

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 26 July 2018 00:02 (three years ago) link

thanks for posting that. very well-written and reported.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:37 (three years ago) link

Two interesting threads regarding the current state of negotiations

The Case of The Missing Negotiations, or Whatever Happened to US-North Korean Diplomacy? A thread.

— Joshua H. Pollack (@Joshua_Pollack) August 6, 2018

This is a wise thread for a different time, a time in which diplomacy was a function of the government and not of one man's ego. A thread in a different direction. https://t.co/tAcQlGmmGn

— Cheryl Rofer (@CherylRofer) August 6, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 6 August 2018 20:06 (three years ago) link

COMING UP pic.twitter.com/ksoTfTZpsL

— Max Tani (@maxwelltani) August 8, 2018

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 August 2018 21:45 (three years ago) link

This is a delusional nonstarter.

Big exclusive by ⁦@AlexWardVox⁩. If this is what Pompeo has asked for, it’s no wonder North Korea has called him “robber” or “gangster-like”. And trying to literally take their nukes away distracts from other realistic objectives like caps. pic.twitter.com/89PVBDV2iI

— Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) August 8, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 9 August 2018 08:06 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...
three weeks pass...

The square peg in the round hole dilemma continues . Pyongyang wants an end-of-war declaration. Washington wants denuclearization. Nobody wants to go first.

Step-by-step is the only way this quandary is going to end. D’.C.’s “all or nothing” approach is a road to a breakdown. https://t.co/7kHrOnJ9sG

— Daniel DePetris (@DanDePetris) September 20, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 20 September 2018 23:48 (three years ago) link

South Korean President Moon, in his remarks to the public about the Pyongyang Summit: "the North requested mediation from the South in its talks with the United States." That's been the case for awhile already, but I still find it remarkable. https://t.co/ZitxB56ZtS

— Joshua H. Pollack (@Joshua_Pollack) September 21, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 22:01 (three years ago) link

In the interview with Geraldo that aired yesterday, Trump said of Kim Jong Un: "We were going to go to war. Now he's a friend of mine."

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 25, 2018


Moon has no option but to overpromise. Best case: he keeps the Trump diplomacy train on the rails for at least one more round. Worst case: Trump’s advisors reach the limit on how much delusion they will allow and this blows up badly for Moon. We are pushing on wrong door here. pic.twitter.com/vaEfnmfWTS

— Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) September 25, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 26 September 2018 00:00 (three years ago) link

three months pass...

North Korean media drops new posters and slogans focusing on the themes of Kim Jong Un's New Year Address: "Let the young people become pioneers of new technology, creators of new culture and pathfinders for a great leap forward!" pic.twitter.com/uhzCRGJqAs

— Oliver Hotham (@OliverHotham) January 24, 2019

... (Eazy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 04:35 (two years ago) link

serious question for the better informed: what prevents nk and sk from negotiating a separate peace w/o US oversight?

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Thursday, 24 January 2019 06:04 (two years ago) link

An official peace treaty would require approval of 2/3 of the US Senate to be ratified. Plus a lot of the economic cooperation the two countries can do together are limited by the current sanctions against NK.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:06 (two years ago) link

Some reassuring stuff in Special Envoy to North Korea’s speech yesterday but a little concerned that he claimed KJU agreed to some major steps back in the meeting Pompeo had with him in October that the North Koreans have never actually said they agreed to publicly as of yet.

Biegun: "I don’t mince my words…he is unconstrained by the assumptions of his predecessors. President Trump is ready to end this war. It is over. It is done. We are not going to invade N. Korea. We are not seeking to topple the N. Korean regime."https://t.co/P6QE0FHdkj

— Jonathan Cheng (@JChengWSJ) February 1, 2019

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 1 February 2019 18:45 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

"North Korea executed Kim Hyok Chol, its special envoy to the United States, and foreign ministry officials who carried out working-level negotiations for the second U.S.-North Korea summit, a South Korean newspaper reported on Friday." https://t.co/NgsQaMnRyv

— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) May 30, 2019

... (Eazy), Friday, 31 May 2019 02:55 (two years ago) link

A good reminder that things can always get worse

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Friday, 31 May 2019 03:19 (two years ago) link

ever timely
How To (Sp)read a Rumor About North Korea

XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Friday, 31 May 2019 13:31 (two years ago) link

that link doesn't but here it is https://www.apnews.com/502b038c1720487294e8ea43f5b39d9c

XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Monday, 3 June 2019 11:38 (two years ago) link

ten months pass...

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1252419687775744000

North Korea does not have an official line of succession. If Kim Jong Un were to pass away, there would likely be an immediate & intense power struggle.

History also teaches us that totalitarian states don’t end if the leader dies. But it could provide opportunities for change. https://t.co/VVQLVDmwZq

— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) April 21, 2020

As if this year couldn't get any crazier...

Sabre of Paradise (trevor phillips), Tuesday, 21 April 2020 02:20 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

"I Dream Myself Alive" by A-ha, performed by a student accordion trio of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea in Pyongyang 💙 pic.twitter.com/etiKiSHvEa

— Comrade Natalie 🇰🇵 (@NatalieRevolts) September 17, 2020

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 17 September 2020 19:48 (one year ago) link

I don't know how something like this comes to be (the A-ha > N Korea > specific accordians > my eyes journey) but I like it.

Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 18 September 2020 09:24 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

Love to see Kim defy traditional masculine gender roles of what a leader should look and act like. Between him and Jacinda Adern, the millenial generation looks set to defy stereotypes and deliver progressive government across the globe 🤝 https://t.co/9NSr6C1VXD

— doug (@heardougtweet) October 12, 2020

xyzzzz__, Monday, 12 October 2020 11:55 (one year ago) link

Kim Jong Un had his uncle assassinated. But all is forgiven now that he shed tears in public, thus becoming an icon for progressive values.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 12 October 2020 17:31 (one year ago) link

six months pass...

This fit crazy pic.twitter.com/FqvBBB57P9

— eĺe💃 (@LesbianDrakeFan) April 16, 2021

too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Saturday, 17 April 2021 01:03 (six months ago) link

No skinny jeans for Kim

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 17 April 2021 10:37 (six months ago) link

that's how you dress when you are a 100pts ahead.

calzino, Saturday, 17 April 2021 11:14 (six months ago) link

That's a solid look I would like to emulate

Call of Scampi: Slack Nephrops (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 April 2021 11:35 (six months ago) link

*takes notes by hand*

yes, JNCOs sir, yes

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 17 April 2021 15:39 (six months ago) link

five months pass...

Cool.

This demonstration at the Defence Development Exhibition was bit intense. Video broadcast today on North Korean TV. pic.twitter.com/zehpI6EAEd

— Martyn Williams (@martyn_williams) October 12, 2021

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:00 (one week ago) link

So I guess our new intercontinental brick missiles won't have the desired effect

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:42 (one week ago) link

You don't go to war with the bricks you want, you go to war with the bricks you have.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 16:44 (one week ago) link

this will hold me over until the new jackass movie comes out

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:24 (one week ago) link

Just being the usual wet blanket here, but I don't think the point of that demonstration was that brick-breaking is a useful military skill.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:39 (one week ago) link

You're saying you want to fight that guy? If North Korea had a dozen more dudes that tough we might as well just surrender right now.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:42 (one week ago) link

you got my point, while missing my point

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:45 (one week ago) link

That look from Kim at 0:38: "Tssst, that guy thinks he's so tough... he's not all that."

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:46 (one week ago) link

Lol Josh giving Kim exactly the reaction he wants

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 17:59 (one week ago) link

lol that guy going aggro was as choreographed as a Jackie Chan movie. But I do love the idea of Kim thinking anyone would really find that intimidating. Like, oh shit, this guy broke a concrete bar with a flying headbutt! Better not mess with North Korea.

would have been better if it was Kim doing the head butting though.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 18:16 (one week ago) link

imo, the NK military putting on that show in front of Kim was not meant to intimidate SK or the USA nearly so much as to show their dear leader how unflinchingly loyal they are to him. they are saying, "see how we will gladly butt through walls with our foreheads and have rods broken across our backs for you." which explains why Kim was kind of bored by it, since that kind of fealty is demonstrated to him constantly.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:22 (one week ago) link

Yet also demanded by him constantly. Be careful what you wish for, I guess!

Donald Fhtagen (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:27 (one week ago) link

But I think the display is part of a larger PR campaign about NK's military might.. like all these boss new gadgets:

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/north-korea-shows-off-new-weapons-at-mil-idUSRTXIGLY4

Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:32 (one week ago) link

Just wait until North Korea reveals it's got the atomic elbow.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:40 (one week ago) link

The way they loop the applause in all these videos is a lot like laying down in glass.

pplains, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 20:04 (one week ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxXZF60EPdM
lil palate cleanser

When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Friday, 15 October 2021 21:28 (one week ago) link


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