Brazil - have you been there?

Facile Trump comparisons are also frustrating because they place the US at the center of the universe and the present moment at the center of history.

Yeah, some people on my timeline shared the news about the military terrorizing Brazilian colleges purely through a lens of "this could happen here soon". Yeah sure, but it's also happening there now, it's not just a symbolic warning for the US.

curious to know if some of the blase reactions to bolsonaro's (at least among the younger set) is that they all grew up in democracy, don't remember the bad old days

Plenty of people who live through dictatorships come out the other end nostalgic for it, is the sad truth, approach people of a certain age in Portugal and it won't take you long to find a Salazar apologist.

In Brazil if you're middle class you didn't bear the main damage that the regime did - unless you decided to speak out against it, and Bolsonaro stans don't worry about that because, hey, they're not gonna disagree with him, he's the greatest!

On a more trivial note, right wingers who smoke weed and want to be down are some of my least favourite people to hang out with. Terminally needy, in most cases.

They're also heavily into Jordan Peterson. In my experience, at least.

and bitcoin

Overall its a mixed picture in Latin America:

For a period there had been that moment where a series of presidents, including in Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, El Salvador, and other countries were all governed by survivors of torture of their nations’ former dictatorships. Now, veterans of the dictatorships take back over.

— Anti-fa-Lantern 🎃🦇🕸 (@sabokitty) October 29, 2018

"Bolsonaro wins in 97% of the richest cities and Haddad in 98% of the poor"

https://www.estadao.com.br/infograficos/politica,bolsonaro-vence-em-97-das-cidades-mais-ricas-e-haddad-em-98-das-pobres,935854

that seems to be true after giving that article a very quick glance -- but this probably needs to be cited too:

Apesar de ter conquistado maioria em menos municípios, Bolsonaro foi vitorioso em cidades muito mais populosas do que Haddad – como São Paulo, por exemplo, que tem o maior eleitorado no País. Em votos válidos, a diferença de Bolsonaro para Haddad foi de 10,7 milhões de votos.

most populated cities voted for bolsonaro, which is weird and scary, because most populated cities are usually more liberal/center/left of center/democratic

I've heard some serious concerns about rampant and random crime, like people afraid to go out at night, and I imagine those types of fears might lean urban.

The urban/rural divide doesn't pan out the same way in Brazil as it does elsewhere - the Nordeste, which is the poorest part of Brazil and which voted for Haddad en masse, is predominantly rural.

I wasn't aware of all of these: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics-bolsonaro-factbox/factbox-far-right-brazilian-candidate-thrives-on-controversy-idUSKCN1II2T3

For instance:

- Brazil’s public prosecutor charged Bolsonaro last month with inciting discrimination against black people, indigenous people, women and gays in public comments he has made, including “If I see two men kissing in the street, I will hit them.”

- At an event last year in Rio de Janeiro, he said having a daughter, his fifth child after four boys, was a “weakness.”

- “I would not be able to love a gay son. I would rather he die in an accident,” he told Playboy magazine in 2011.

- Speaking last year about communities of descendants of escaped slaves, who are protected by Brazil’s social programs, Bolsonaro suggested the state was wasting money: “They do nothing! I don’t think they even serve for reproduction.”

Before we all get too excited about the possibilities of guerilla firebomb attacks on the presidential palace or whatever, what are the chances of Bolsonaro being impeached here and what would need to happen for that to take place? Brazil seems to remove presidents relatively frequently but I've no idea if the congressional numbers add up this time round.

Collor was impeached on corruption charges. Can't see a coup as the elites are behind him unless he goes rogue.

The other possibility is any kind of action in Venezuela or Bolivia going deeply wrong. That would just weaken him though.

Assassination would bring in the military so Maoist guerrilas -- what we have left.

Guerrila warfare and impeachment seem equally far-fetched to me, sad to say. Dude's just gonna be in power, vulnerable people are going to get slaughtered, and things will go on as usual. Sorry for the defeatism but that does seem the most likely scenario.

praying for a deus ex machina solution worked so well in the US...

Oh look Bolsonaro's right-hand economics man (University of Chicago trained) will consolidate three whole ministries under his rule and basically run all Brazil by himself cool cool cool https://t.co/XUcbLBKk99

— Vincent Bevins (@Vinncent) October 30, 2018

http://www.brasilwire.com/why-bolsonaro-won-beyond-the-cliches/?fbclid=IwAR3gXfw0jeAB7Dxcyx1NdPWtgbIKOFU8-PB1CBIVKLcRu5O51N7rB0RzNTI

International capital and the US government now have exactly what they want in Brazil. All natural resources will be opened to exploitation from foreign capital. The US military will be able to use the Alcantara rocket launching base as a take off point for forays into Venezuela. Brazil’s participation in the BRICS is dead in the water and US Petroleum companies will be swimming in Brazilian oil. Regardless of the level of participation by the US and its institutions, these events fit a pattern of US interventions in Latin America over the past 100 years. If we are truly interested in defeating fascism it is important to move beyond cliches and work to identify the real actors at play, so that their power can be countered. In order to do this, we have to move beyond the idea that Brazil operates in a geopolitical vacuum and that the return to neofascism, which was previously installed with ample US government support from 1964-1985, can be explained by oversimplified generalizations on public opinion.

i met a brazilian guy a few months ago and we became good acquaintances

i'm very uninformed of the details of brazil's current politics but from a cultural perspective, it's interesting that this brazilian guy voted for him and knows all the nasty things the english speaking world says about him, but he still voted for him and doesn't believe bolsonaro will actually kill anyone or will have anyone killed

he is studying business in canada, so i'm not sure how informed his opinions are on politics but i get a sense that he is definitely into US neoliberalism -- he seemed happy that bolsonaro wants to appoint guedes as financial advisor, at least

whether they're mutually exclusive or not, he enjoys getting high a couple times a day and is socially very progressive, with that tinge of homophobia and sexism that pervades most of south america

i did bring up a possible coup, but he believes it won't happen, since it's been a long time, since the 60s, that brazil has had one

bolsonaro's approach and social values are similar to trump's, but other than that, he sounds worse

the brazilian business student was trying to get me to understand how there's huge desperation in brazil, with a gdp comparable to canada's, yet a population 5 times bigger, and feels that brazil needs to be closed off, grow local businesses/companies, and provide/protect people's interests first, rather than big global companies. kinda typical, and in fact, lots of people have this mentality in vancouver/canada too though

fun dude

― F# A# (∞), Monday, October 29, 2018 1:56 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm in a similar conversation with a brazilian business student, a woman, who really does claim that if PT had continued on its path (??) there would be 190 millions Brazilians refugees so really I suppose some sort of Fox News is operating over there.

That and she kinda have this nostalgia for Brazil in the 60s 'things used to work then'. My whole life I thought the right wing 'trains on time' thinking was usually a straw man from the left, a not so clever way to ridicule the narrow thinking of law and order types but the last 4 years have proved me some straw man come alive and haunt you.

Horrible story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47009118

Some fucking mega corporation involved, inevitably.

Terrible

At least the 2nd time this coal mining company has screwed up (I heard someone say on the BBC this morning). At least 60 dead

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47151645

Lula’s jail term has been doubled to 26 years.

Anderson's piece on Bolsanaro is now free to read:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v41/n03/perry-anderson/bolsonaros-brazil

Is been fun seeing a million people shout 'GOOD' to this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/08/brazil-president-jair-bolsonaro-hospitalised-with-pneumonia?CMP=share_btn_tw

perry reckons the stab's wot won it

Just in the past few days: 1) humanities courses will get defunded bc "not productive" 2) state-owned ads are explicitly censored from using "lgbt language" (sic) 3) 9 army soldiers who fired 80+ bullets to a civilian car killing two will have their charges dropped for now.

— Pedro Oliveira (@pedroliveira_) April 30, 2019

fun as that all is, I want the latest deforestation stats as well

It's not about what you want

insanity

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/americas/brazil-prison-riots-intl/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/gang-members-behead-rivals-while-guards-look-on-inside-brazils-deadly-prison-riots/2019/08/03/4c3454cc-b2ed-11e9-acc8-1d847bacca73_story.html

“Brazil is a violent country, so people feel that they want harsher treatment, and isolating people in these conditions is the best response,” said Maria Laura Canineu, the Brazil director of Human Rights Watch. “They don’t understand that these abusive conditions only encourage gang violence.”

“Brazil is a violent country” — as description this cannot be denied. But does it mean more: that there is a violent essence to the nation? What would that mean?

And yet: I know many Brasilians and I have been there, and I think there is something to that claim.

they do love their martial arts

There's a violent essence to most nations, no? I don't think Brazil's history is particularly bloodier than that of its neighbours.

I think the person calling it a violent country wouldn’t have bothered if every country is the same way.

Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about - you asked if Brazil is a violent country because there is a "violent essence to the nation".

The person calling it a violent country also might not have a clue about it. You can visit or live in the country, but Brazil seems incredibly divided along class and racial lines and people often don't know other places within a city, never mind the nation.

There is violence in the country, which is often true of many parts of Latin America and the US. And yet it's also often the case that Brazilians are v friendly compared to some European nations. Things - and clichés - which can co-exist.

they do love their martial arts

― ogmor, Tuesday, August 6, 2019 6:32 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

TBF, jiu jitsu is the least ostensibly "violent" martial art. Watching it is like watching a slug wrestle a snail.

The person who called Brazil a violent country is Brazilian, the Brazil director of Human Rights Watch. The person is on Twitter, I could ask them what they meant.

I don't think it's unfair to call Brazil a violent country, in that it's a country suffering under tremendous violence from gangs, militias, police brutality, etc.

Where I get skeptical is in trying to pin this down to some sort of essential national characteristic. Seems to me the reasons for the current situation - inequality, poverty, corruption - are pretty prosaic and exist in plenty of other places, so there's no need to grasp for deeper explanations concerning national character.

I just did a cursory google but there are a lot of statistics about Latin America in general being the most violent region in the world relative to its population with most of the homicides in Venezuela, Brazil and Mexico cities.

it's the fiery latin temperament

Not disagreeing with Euler's post that Brazil is violent. But a lot of the initial post was just fucking weird. Violence, as I said, is often true of parts of Latin America, which would bring a question on whether violence was a thing in essence for just Brazil...which was sort started on and left as we moved to Euler's experience as a visitor, recounting some anecdotes of his (assuming here) middle-class academic friends fearing for their lives, in their closed off flats. We don't know about that so I make it up because a lot of Euler's post was weirdly cloaked in an attempt to think about things.

Mexicans being essentially violent:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/08/mexico-bodies-police-uruapan-drug-cartels

So, this happened.

Last night, President Jair Bolsonaro was very publicly linked to the murder of Marielle Franco, and then lashed out wildly at former political allies, and the country's most important TV station. This is going to keep rocking Brazilian politics today

— Vincent Bevins (@Vinncent) October 30, 2019

saw that. Was his denial enough to make the story go away

Not gonna lie, I'm not sufficiently informed on Lula to know whether he was crooked or not, but seeing the jubilant reaction of ppl at his being set free - people whose lives he directly contributed towards making better - and the teeth gnashing of the Bolsonaro crowd at it does make me really happy.

lula is good

Lula is good even if crooked. Corruption is like the deficit, no-one gaf unless it can be levered against left wing figures

This guy writes for the WSJ

Legend. I can't decide who I like more, Lula or Bolsonaro. Seriously, they both seem like great guys who have far-different views but truly love their country. Hope the future is bright for Brazil. https://t.co/N6EycFE89P

— Dan Molinski (@molinskidan) November 8, 2019

If there was evidence Lula was crooked, they wouldn't have had to make up a story the way they did. The trial was a complete sham, designed to disqualify him from office. I think that's pretty well established by now.

There's a great film on netflix called The Edge of Democracy, which pretty straightforewardly explain what happened. It didn't get to incorporate the latest revelations from the intercept, but after having watched the film, no new scandal has been that surprising.

https://jornalistaslivres.org/brazilian-secretary-of-culture-paraphrases-goebbels-in-official-statement/