Brazil - have you been there?

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What did you think?

It's big, isn't it?

just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:57 (sixteen years ago) link

Somebody told me it is "just like America". This can't be right.

just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:59 (sixteen years ago) link

One of my friends is over there teaching and says it's the greatest place she's ever been. You can get very, very drunk for about two pounds, so she says. Is this true?

Patrick Allan (adr), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link

If you're going, can you pick me up a surdo?

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link

If you tell em what it is, maybe.

just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link


just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Rio is STINKY. Their cars run on different fuel, and it creates a sickly sweet smell that lingers everywhere. I bet there are cooler things to talk about, but I was only eleven when I was there.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 March 2005 22:12 (sixteen years ago) link

I lived over there for three years (95 to 98) and had a great time.

Yup, Brazil is big.

It's not much like America.

If you seek out some of the weirder concoctions, e.g. pau do Indio [Indian's dick], you can get smashed for next to nothing.

That fuel thing - cars over there run on alcohol, which, as Tracer says, gives the air a really cloying feel.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 13:43 (sixteen years ago) link

I didn't notice any bad smell (I was in Rio & Sao Paulo). Rio is a fantastic city. There is a sense of impending violence about the place though, which I imagine would get wearing if you lived there permanently.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 14:01 (sixteen years ago) link

The smell isn't that bad, it's true, but it's something noticeably different when you go out into the street.

Street crime is an absolute pain in the arse. I got mugged three times when I was over there, and it does colour your view of what is essentially a wonderful country.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:21 (sixteen years ago) link

i am envious of people who have been there

i am even envious of people who have been to the restaurant of the same name on Oxford St

Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:23 (sixteen years ago) link

my sister in law was there recently, she got mugged at gunpoint.

Chris 'The Nuts' V (Chris V), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:32 (sixteen years ago) link

was there a long time ago, so much could've changed...

I suspect its quite americanized, in a sense that it would've absorbed US culture through its proximity to it but also its a young country, in a way that the US is. The point abt violence is something that prob repeats itself in other cities that have these very pronounced contrasts such as johannesburg (that's what i get from reading abt it, never been there). Its very obvious what the areas to avoid at all costs are (or the ones where you just drive by and not walk) if you live there long enough but naturally not so if you're a tourist. but this could apply to certain US cities, i dunno...

The soaps are great, btw: they last 9 months each and there's 3 of them broadcast one after the other -1 episode broadcast every working day, lasting an hour each - the beeb wouldn't get away with that...all of them are like a very big movie, and it all ends happily in the end. The concept of growing with a set of characters like you have here was a bit alien to me at first. also, unlike the US, many of these actors will star in Brazilian movies too.

I guess you might try cachaca , its the drink made from sugar cane (if i'm not wrong, its sold in europe as caiprinha, I'm sure you know but its my only drink related bit of knowledge you see!).

this should be some music stuff here...I think david tudor and john cage played a show in the late 60s and its prob the inspiration for tudor's 'rainforest' piece. not sure abt nam june paik tho'.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:55 (sixteen years ago) link

I went a couple years ago for a day or two.. I was told to expect hot chicks and all I encountered were scantily clad old dudes.

Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 23:00 (sixteen years ago) link

i'm going in less than a month. how many days would you suggest i spend in sao paulo and rio? i have just two weeks to soak everything in....i'd like to go see the waterfalls at foz do iguacu and some other towns, but i'd also like to experience as much of rio and sp as possible.

waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 05:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Julio makes some interesting points.

Violence: being mugged is a terrible downer, but it's not as bad as being beaten up, which is always a possibility on a drunken Friday night in England. I was mugged over there 3 times, as I said above, but was never harmed. The muggers want your watch and that's it.

But that really is the only downer of living in Brazil.

On the positive side, there's music, football, beaches, climate, lively / lovely people etc etc

The soaps are indeed extraordinary. I heard a stat when i was over there that the highest ever TV audience figure was for the final episode of a soap and not for a football match, which I find incredible.

Waxyjax, I'd say give yourself time in SP and Rio and don't spread yourself too thin. Foz do Iguacu is a fair distance from SP and Rio. An alternative would be a tour of the Northeast, including Salvador and Recife, which are sizzlingly exciting.

The airlines all do airpasses - flat fee for five internal flights - which works out incredibly cheap given the distances involved.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:37 (sixteen years ago) link

Sao Paulo is interesting and culturally there's probably more going on there than in Rio, but it's Rio that blew me away. That might be partly because I knew people there, but it has an extraordinary physical presence. Everyone I met there had carjacking/busjacking/mugging stories, but nothing ever actually happened to me (2 trips of 2 weeks each). My brother lived there for 6 months and nothing happened to him either. Apparently the trick is to wear a crappy watch and always keep 20 reais in your pocket for the potential mugger (any less and you'll piss him off). Certain areas certainly give off a dangerous vibe but if you stick to downtown (by day only) and Ipanema/Gavea it doesn't feel too bad. A great trip is getting a bus down to Parati - a fantastic coastal road and Parati is a beautiful old Portuguese fishing village, from where you can go on trips to nearby islands. There's a literary festival there too.

Brazil didn't feel it was too Americanised to me. It's a fascinating culture, half Western, half something else altogether. Food and beer are dirt cheap. All in all, my experiences of Brazil have been nothing less than fantastic.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:56 (sixteen years ago) link

i'm really interested in Paraty! I guess I will skip Iguacu this time around...I have some friends who will be partying in Brasilia--I'm sort of intrigued by the idea of going to such a weird city...any of you guys been?

waxyjax (waxyjax), Saturday, 19 March 2005 06:52 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, Brasilia is weird alright. I tend to think it's fascinating in theory but a bit of a pain in the arse in practice. Don't even think about sightseeing on foot - all the landmarks look close togther but are actually 20-odd minutes' walk apart, as I found out to my cost. Make sure you don't miss out on the cathedral - it's breathtaking. If you've got friends up there, then I'd definitely advise you to go; people who live there swear by it. The only problem is distance - the bus journey from SP to Brasilia is going to be at least 15 hours, I'd guess.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Saturday, 19 March 2005 08:01 (sixteen years ago) link

"Baby Jane's in Acapulco, We are flying down to RIO!"

Well, I am next month. What should I do? Where should I go? I've got about 10 days and am thinking about just slowly taking in Rio, but if there's one day (or two day) trip I should make, what should it be?

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 24 March 2005 18:39 (sixteen years ago) link

please take me with!

Great, Brave, True, Strong, Great, Real, Wise, Great...adam levine (nordicskilla, Thursday, 24 March 2005 18:41 (sixteen years ago) link


when i was eleven i thought it was awesome, it could possibly be a bit "touristy" but i don't know because i didn't notice things like that at that age, i just remember the waves being the biggest i'd ever seen, and green lush little inlets and etc

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 March 2005 18:44 (sixteen years ago) link

i don't know what you are talking about but it sounds great

Great, Brave, True, Strong, Great, Real, Wise, Great...adam levine (nordicskilla, Thursday, 24 March 2005 18:59 (sixteen years ago) link

I am a proud TOURIST. I'll look into it. Adam, get one ticket! (and one Visa).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 24 March 2005 19:00 (sixteen years ago) link

I can't. Check it out for me, anyway. WHAT DATES WILL YOU NOT BE IN LA?

Great, Brave, True, Strong, Great, Real, Wise, Great...adam levine (nordicskilla, Thursday, 24 March 2005 19:05 (sixteen years ago) link

If youre anywhere near brazil you owe it to yourself to visit iguazu falls. Its not close to beach country (its north near the shared border with uruguay and argentina) but its the most awe inspiring place Ive ever been to.

Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Thursday, 24 March 2005 19:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Oh, that's really beautiful.

I'll be back by 4/15.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 24 March 2005 19:22 (sixteen years ago) link

the cheesy picture doesnt really do the whole thing justice. Theres approx 100 or so waterfalls in the area. Makes Niagara Falls look like a puddle of puke.

Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Brazil? I've NEVER BEEN.

Graham "Beaky" Beecroft, Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:35 (sixteen years ago) link

spencer--i'll be there from March 31-April 15. FAP?

waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 18:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Totally, I just replied.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 20:02 (sixteen years ago) link

BAIA, Tuesday, 29 March 2005 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link

I think I drew him to try and get into some kind of "art school"!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link

Violence: being mugged is a terrible downer, but it's not as bad as being beaten up, which is always a possibility on a drunken Friday night in England. I was mugged over there 3 times, as I said above, but was never harmed. The muggers want your watch and that's it.

Not always. My uncle's colleague was robbed then beaten severely. Right on Ipanema Beach.

()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 22:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I miss Rio loads...

Spencer, make sure you try Acai but served really cold with crushed ice and granola. You'll need it to keep you going all day and all night.

I recommend a juice bar (you find them on evry corner) called Baby Lanches, but I can't remember the exact address. Its like 3 minutes from the beachfront and on a road off Rua Domingos Ferreira which is in Copacabana.

Tannenbaum Schmidt (Nik), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 22:52 (sixteen years ago) link

Rio is *STUNNING*. Get one ticket.

Spencer Chow in Rio, Friday, 8 April 2005 19:56 (sixteen years ago) link

I'd like to visit brasilia and curitiba and rio, I guess.

have fun, spencer!!!!

RJG (RJG), Friday, 8 April 2005 20:03 (sixteen years ago) link

I would like to go to brazil.

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 8 April 2005 20:15 (sixteen years ago) link

me too

Jeromathan Millions (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 20:28 (sixteen years ago) link

Spencer, what are you doing posting on ILX on Rio on a Friday night? Get out there and party.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 April 2005 21:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Don't even think about sightseeing on foot - all the landmarks look close togther but are actually 20-odd minutes' walk apart, as I found out to my cost.

a 20 minutes walk is not far!

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 8 April 2005 21:25 (sixteen years ago) link

go to help disco.

kacka, Sunday, 10 April 2005 05:03 (sixteen years ago) link

help's dancefloor is full of callgirls. it's famous/infamous and if you're in rio already, you're probably heard of it by now.

note: i haven't actually been there or to even rio myself, but i hear it's way on the mark if you wanna like bargain and pick up a mulatta cutie for under 60 euros. why the f do i know this?

kacka, Sunday, 10 April 2005 05:15 (sixteen years ago) link

now why do i have to fuck shit up with a typo. sheesh. you're above should read YOU'VE. sheesh.

kacka, Sunday, 10 April 2005 05:16 (sixteen years ago) link

ONE 20 minute walk is not far, DV. There's just a series of them between landmarks that appear to be very close together.

is what i meant to say

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Monday, 11 April 2005 07:24 (sixteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...
I wonder if I've sized these right:

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:16 (fifteen years ago) link


Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

what about...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

view from apt on Copacabana:

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Collor was impeached on corruption charges. Can't see a coup as the elites are behind him unless he goes rogue.

The other possibility is any kind of action in Venezuela or Bolivia going deeply wrong. That would just weaken him though.

Assassination would bring in the military so Maoist guerrilas -- what we have left.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 12:29 (two years ago) link

Guerrila warfare and impeachment seem equally far-fetched to me, sad to say. Dude's just gonna be in power, vulnerable people are going to get slaughtered, and things will go on as usual. Sorry for the defeatism but that does seem the most likely scenario.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 14:31 (two years ago) link

praying for a deus ex machina solution worked so well in the US...

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 30 October 2018 14:39 (two years ago) link

Oh look Bolsonaro's right-hand economics man (University of Chicago trained) will consolidate three whole ministries under his rule and basically run all Brazil by himself cool cool cool

— Vincent Bevins (@Vinncent) October 30, 2018

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 31 October 2018 17:05 (two years ago) link

International capital and the US government now have exactly what they want in Brazil. All natural resources will be opened to exploitation from foreign capital. The US military will be able to use the Alcantara rocket launching base as a take off point for forays into Venezuela. Brazil’s participation in the BRICS is dead in the water and US Petroleum companies will be swimming in Brazilian oil. Regardless of the level of participation by the US and its institutions, these events fit a pattern of US interventions in Latin America over the past 100 years. If we are truly interested in defeating fascism it is important to move beyond cliches and work to identify the real actors at play, so that their power can be countered. In order to do this, we have to move beyond the idea that Brazil operates in a geopolitical vacuum and that the return to neofascism, which was previously installed with ample US government support from 1964-1985, can be explained by oversimplified generalizations on public opinion.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 2 November 2018 22:14 (two years ago) link

i met a brazilian guy a few months ago and we became good acquaintances

i'm very uninformed of the details of brazil's current politics but from a cultural perspective, it's interesting that this brazilian guy voted for him and knows all the nasty things the english speaking world says about him, but he still voted for him and doesn't believe bolsonaro will actually kill anyone or will have anyone killed

he is studying business in canada, so i'm not sure how informed his opinions are on politics but i get a sense that he is definitely into US neoliberalism -- he seemed happy that bolsonaro wants to appoint guedes as financial advisor, at least

whether they're mutually exclusive or not, he enjoys getting high a couple times a day and is socially very progressive, with that tinge of homophobia and sexism that pervades most of south america

i did bring up a possible coup, but he believes it won't happen, since it's been a long time, since the 60s, that brazil has had one

bolsonaro's approach and social values are similar to trump's, but other than that, he sounds worse

the brazilian business student was trying to get me to understand how there's huge desperation in brazil, with a gdp comparable to canada's, yet a population 5 times bigger, and feels that brazil needs to be closed off, grow local businesses/companies, and provide/protect people's interests first, rather than big global companies. kinda typical, and in fact, lots of people have this mentality in vancouver/canada too though

fun dude

― F# A# (∞), Monday, October 29, 2018 1:56 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm in a similar conversation with a brazilian business student, a woman, who really does claim that if PT had continued on its path (??) there would be 190 millions Brazilians refugees so really I suppose some sort of Fox News is operating over there.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 2 November 2018 22:22 (two years ago) link

That and she kinda have this nostalgia for Brazil in the 60s 'things used to work then'. My whole life I thought the right wing 'trains on time' thinking was usually a straw man from the left, a not so clever way to ridicule the narrow thinking of law and order types but the last 4 years have proved me some straw man come alive and haunt you.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 2 November 2018 22:27 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

Horrible story.

Some fucking mega corporation involved, inevitably.

Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Saturday, 26 January 2019 11:38 (two years ago) link


curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 January 2019 18:16 (two years ago) link

At least the 2nd time this coal mining company has screwed up (I heard someone say on the BBC this morning). At least 60 dead

curmudgeon, Monday, 28 January 2019 20:36 (two years ago) link

Lula’s jail term has been doubled to 26 years.

ShariVari, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:13 (two years ago) link

Anderson's piece on Bolsanaro is now free to read:

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:20 (two years ago) link

Is been fun seeing a million people shout 'GOOD' to this:

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:33 (two years ago) link

perry reckons the stab's wot won it

conrad, Friday, 8 February 2019 14:19 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

Just in the past few days: 1) humanities courses will get defunded bc "not productive" 2) state-owned ads are explicitly censored from using "lgbt language" (sic) 3) 9 army soldiers who fired 80+ bullets to a civilian car killing two will have their charges dropped for now.

— Pedro Oliveira (@pedroliveira_) April 30, 2019

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 April 2019 14:35 (one year ago) link

fun as that all is, I want the latest deforestation stats as well

imago, Tuesday, 30 April 2019 14:46 (one year ago) link

It's not about what you want

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 30 April 2019 15:06 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

“Brazil is a violent country, so people feel that they want harsher treatment, and isolating people in these conditions is the best response,” said Maria Laura Canineu, the Brazil director of Human Rights Watch. “They don’t understand that these abusive conditions only encourage gang violence.”

“Brazil is a violent country” — as description this cannot be denied. But does it mean more: that there is a violent essence to the nation? What would that mean?

And yet: I know many Brasilians and I have been there, and I think there is something to that claim.

L'assie (Euler), Tuesday, 6 August 2019 23:27 (one year ago) link

they do love their martial arts

ogmor, Tuesday, 6 August 2019 23:32 (one year ago) link

There's a violent essence to most nations, no? I don't think Brazil's history is particularly bloodier than that of its neighbours.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 09:53 (one year ago) link

I think the person calling it a violent country wouldn’t have bothered if every country is the same way.

L'assie (Euler), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 11:49 (one year ago) link

Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about - you asked if Brazil is a violent country because there is a "violent essence to the nation".

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 15:06 (one year ago) link

The person calling it a violent country also might not have a clue about it. You can visit or live in the country, but Brazil seems incredibly divided along class and racial lines and people often don't know other places within a city, never mind the nation.

There is violence in the country, which is often true of many parts of Latin America and the US. And yet it's also often the case that Brazilians are v friendly compared to some European nations. Things - and clichés - which can co-exist.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 16:42 (one year ago) link

they do love their martial arts

― ogmor, Tuesday, August 6, 2019 6:32 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

TBF, jiu jitsu is the least ostensibly "violent" martial art. Watching it is like watching a slug wrestle a snail.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 17:47 (one year ago) link

The person who called Brazil a violent country is Brazilian, the Brazil director of Human Rights Watch. The person is on Twitter, I could ask them what they meant.

L'assie (Euler), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 19:21 (one year ago) link

I don't think it's unfair to call Brazil a violent country, in that it's a country suffering under tremendous violence from gangs, militias, police brutality, etc.

Where I get skeptical is in trying to pin this down to some sort of essential national characteristic. Seems to me the reasons for the current situation - inequality, poverty, corruption - are pretty prosaic and exist in plenty of other places, so there's no need to grasp for deeper explanations concerning national character.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 19:35 (one year ago) link

I just did a cursory google but there are a lot of statistics about Latin America in general being the most violent region in the world relative to its population with most of the homicides in Venezuela, Brazil and Mexico cities.

Yerac, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 19:41 (one year ago) link

it's the fiery latin temperament

bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 19:42 (one year ago) link

Not disagreeing with Euler's post that Brazil is violent. But a lot of the initial post was just fucking weird. Violence, as I said, is often true of parts of Latin America, which would bring a question on whether violence was a thing in essence for just Brazil...which was sort started on and left as we moved to Euler's experience as a visitor, recounting some anecdotes of his (assuming here) middle-class academic friends fearing for their lives, in their closed off flats. We don't know about that so I make it up because a lot of Euler's post was weirdly cloaked in an attempt to think about things.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 21:45 (one year ago) link

Mexicans being essentially violent:

xyzzzz__, Friday, 9 August 2019 11:34 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

So, this happened.

Last night, President Jair Bolsonaro was very publicly linked to the murder of Marielle Franco, and then lashed out wildly at former political allies, and the country's most important TV station. This is going to keep rocking Brazilian politics today

— Vincent Bevins (@Vinncent) October 30, 2019

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 15:35 (one year ago) link

saw that. Was his denial enough to make the story go away

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 17:25 (one year ago) link

Not gonna lie, I'm not sufficiently informed on Lula to know whether he was crooked or not, but seeing the jubilant reaction of ppl at his being set free - people whose lives he directly contributed towards making better - and the teeth gnashing of the Bolsonaro crowd at it does make me really happy.

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 9 November 2019 16:06 (one year ago) link

lula is good

i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Saturday, 9 November 2019 17:08 (one year ago) link

Lula is good even if crooked. Corruption is like the deficit, no-one gaf unless it can be levered against left wing figures

Camille Paglia is on my partner's NextDoor (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 10 November 2019 12:40 (one year ago) link

This guy writes for the WSJ

Legend. I can't decide who I like more, Lula or Bolsonaro. Seriously, they both seem like great guys who have far-different views but truly love their country. Hope the future is bright for Brazil.

— Dan Molinski (@molinskidan) November 8, 2019

Simon H., Sunday, 10 November 2019 12:44 (one year ago) link

If there was evidence Lula was crooked, they wouldn't have had to make up a story the way they did. The trial was a complete sham, designed to disqualify him from office. I think that's pretty well established by now.

Frederik B, Sunday, 10 November 2019 12:45 (one year ago) link

There's a great film on netflix called The Edge of Democracy, which pretty straightforewardly explain what happened. It didn't get to incorporate the latest revelations from the intercept, but after having watched the film, no new scandal has been that surprising.

Frederik B, Sunday, 10 November 2019 12:47 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

That URL doesn't sound too good

xyzzzz__, Friday, 17 January 2020 12:20 (one year ago) link

The most shocking thing about that story is that he got fired for it.

pomenitul, Friday, 17 January 2020 17:30 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

so is this officially a coup / occupation now?

no (Left), Monday, 8 March 2021 20:36 (one month ago) link

four weeks pass...

Vice magazine have a 4 part series called Black Lives Matter A Global Reckoning. It covers the black experience in 4 countries which are Italy, Denmark, Brazil and Israel. I haven't watched the Israel one yet but did watch the Brazil a few days ago.
Seems that there has been way too much linking thinking of black Brazilians in terms of slavery. Which has lead them to be treated way too much like 2nd class citizens. It was also saying that there was a coming wave of black politicians vying to get into parliament where they were very under represented.
I assume that the series was filmed over the last year since they were wearing covid masks during a lot of it.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 06:40 (one week ago) link

Not been to Brazil or any of South America but that programme was pretty scathing on the black experience. Police officers sent to the fave last while training being given an open day on how violent they can get with residents and so on.

I do know that Paolo Friere's work on education had been used as a model in the pre Bolsanaro govt. So it was possible for things to be much more progressive.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 06:50 (one week ago) link

This is all half-knowledge cobbled together from having had a few Brazilian friends and listening to Brazilian music/watching Brazilian cinema, so reader discretion is advised:

One thing to keep in mind about racism in Brazil is that it's a much more mixed country compared to the US or the UK - so there's not really the same kind of ethnic minority status (in numbers), and bigotries can often be as much about colourism as racism; the gap of opportunity between light-skinned and darker skinned black people seems to be quite huge.

Also of note is the sociological theory of "luso-tropicalismo" developed by Gilberto Freyre. Basically this suggests that the Portuguese, by dint of having been colonized themselves, had a different attitude towards race issues than other colonizers, foremost amongst them that racial mixing was encouraged. This rather thin premise was then seized on by the dictatorships in both Portugal (where it was used to justify the country's occupation of various African countries - not "colonies", you see, but "just part of Portugal") and Brazil, where it was launched as a way to prevent the then-emerging ideologies of black power from gaining traction in the country. So the official government policy included paying some lip service to ideas of racial equality and celebration of black culture while inequalities remain.

It should be noted that populations in Brazilian favelas are pretty mixed as well, so the issue of police brutality intersects with racism but not quite as closely as it does in the US. Sadly, the one black guy who's lived in a favela I know tends to be quite fascist when it comes to the police, because he's been targeted by local gangsters in the past. His stance on Bolsonaro used to be "I wish he didn't talk so much nonsense but at least he's creating order"; he has changed his mind due to dude's handling of the coronavirus crisis though.

The Brazilian left is to the far left of any US or UK left and Lula's government elevated millions out of poverty, which has earned him eternal adoration from some sections of the population and eternaç hatred from a bourgeoisie very pissed at seeing their status threatened.

Some good films to check out on race and class in Brazil: Pixote, Bacurau, The Second Mother.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 09:51 (one week ago) link

Oh, also, a very important figure in recent Brazilian politics: Marielle Franco, whose murder the police are almost certainly implicated in.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 10:08 (one week ago) link

I think she may have been featured for a few minutes but it slipped my mind this morning. one of the triggers for a number of new candidates to stand.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 13:38 (one week ago) link

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