Peckinpah!

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Inspired by meeting a girl who is from Colombia and currently working on the Spanish subtitling (for the close-captioning and international markets) of a slew of Peckinpah DVD re-releases, including The Wild Bunch, which is maybe my favorite film of all time. AND Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia is being released on DVD in March.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 24 January 2005 11:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha I thought you were talking about Saturday night's CSI which featured a band called Pekinpah (sic). Sorry, carry on.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 24 January 2005 11:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I have been waiting for an opportunity to share my astonishment that Dot Cotton was in 'Straw Dogs', and now I have found it.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 24 January 2005 11:25 (nineteen years ago) link

*submits uncut magazine to thread*

ppp, Monday, 24 January 2005 11:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I like The Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett just fine, but my favorite is still Ride the High Country! (I heart Joel McCrea)

An imminent restoration:

http://www.filmforum.com/films/dundee.html

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 January 2005 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

PECKINPAH!

http://www.movie-in-the-head.de/bilder/w_001.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I really like Junior Bonner and Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia is one of the all time weirdest movies ever made, but nothing tops The Wild Bunch. Straw Dogs OTOH is one of the worst movies I've ever sat all the way through. Gross.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 January 2005 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Alfredo Garcia is great. The Getaway is alright, too.

.ada.m. (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 January 2005 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

http://thehighhat.com/index-002.html

Special Peckinpah issue. I think the Straw Dogs essay is just tops. I really recommend it to anyone, but especially people who find the movie gross (I did, my first couple times through.)

Austin (Austin), Monday, 24 January 2005 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

from one of the dvd news places -

his February marks the 80th anniversary of Sam Peckinpah's birth, and this spring Columbia will be releasing a recently discovered longer cut of his dark 1965 Civil War-era adventure MAJOR DUNDEE, the film he directed between his classics Ride the High Country and The Wild Bunch, to selected theaters. What is most unusual about this re-release is that Columbia has commissioned an entirely new score, by a selected-but-not-yet-named composer (an unknown), to replace the film's original Daniele Amfitheatrof score (which was reportedly hated by Peckinpah, who was not involved in the film's final cut). The film's upcoming DVD release will feature the new score as well as the Amfitheatrof score on separate audio tracks.

Peckinpah expert Nick Redman is preparing a multi-box DVD set of Peckinpah films to be released later this year. One of the highlights for film music fans will be the DVD of THE GETAWAY, which is expected to feature the film's rejected Jerry Fielding score isolated on a separate audio track, spotted exactly as Fielding intended. The supplementary material will include one sequence from the film with Fielding's music mixed back in, and a documentary on Fielding's collaboration with Peckinpah and the rejection of the Getaway score, featuring interviews with Fielding's wife and daughter.

If this isn't enough for Peckinpah fans, Redman and film editor Paul Seydor (Cobb, Tin Cup) will follow up their Oscar nominated documentary The Wild Bunch: An Album in Montage with A Simple Adventure Story: Sam Peckinpah, Mexico and The Wild Bunch, a new documentary which will feature newly discovered color outtake footage from The Wild Bunch as well as new footage exploring the Mexican locations where the film was shot. The documentary will premiere at the American Cinematheque in late February and also show at the Cannes Film Festival. Also at Cannes will be a new cut of Peckinpah's Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 24 January 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Straw Dogs is the greatest.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 24 January 2005 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

No one has any moral queasiness about The Wild Bunch? ie, macho shitheadism?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 January 2005 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't really see that at all. To me, it's a critique of macho shitheadism.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 24 January 2005 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, exactly. The Bunchies aren't at all admirable or attractive. Much like Dustin Hoffman in Straw Dogs.

Austin (Austin), Monday, 24 January 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Saw Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid today at the NFT. Oh yeah! Even though it occasionally was laconic, what greatness. Not his best stuff, but definitely up there.

Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

What about "Osterman Weekend"? That's a weird one. John Hurt at his spookiest. Good thing SP didn't make it thru the '80s, he was already completely wigged out.

"The Wild Bunch" is one of my favorite films--the Bunch might not be totally admirable, but I find much to admire about them, as SP wants us to. They're certainly more admirable than anyone else in the film, except Robert Ryan.

I find the humor in Peckinpah in keeping with my own. The animus he had against the people who profit from the death of others is balanced by his certitude that that's just the way of the world, and you can fight it but can't win. "Alfredo Garcia" and "Straw Dogs" are both failures, but at least his failures have much to recommend them, unlike the failures of someone like Kubrick. "The Getaway" is Peckinpah Lite (Ali McGraw at her most toothsome yet nulled)--McQueen doesn't quite have the depth of a classic Peckinpah hero, though. But it's one enjoyable film.

es hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 02:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Have you read any of the massive biography? Sam was def not 100% against machismo, to put it mildly.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link

"No one has any moral queasiness about The Wild Bunch? ie, macho shitheadism?"

Yeah, I do. It's the same thing that kind of bother's me about Fuller occassionally.

Also they butchered The Getaway by removing the ending from the novel. That's not Peckinpah's fault (nor is it McGraw's even though she is unwatchable as always.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Have you read any of the massive biography? Sam was def not 100% against machismo, to put it mildly.

This is exactly why I try to avoid reading about actors/musicians/etc. and just watch the movies/listen to the albums.

While you dudes are hating Ali McGraw I will continue to carefully dust and arrange my shrine to her.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

"This is exactly why I try to avoid reading about actors/musicians/etc. and just watch the movies/listen to the albums."

If you don't think that Peckinpah's movies don't have ahem a pronounced tendency to engage in the ever continuing deification of a rather disturbing line of gung-ho machismo (why oh why do I have a feeling that Dubya loves The Wild Bunch?) well then you might want to watch/listen a little closer.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, Alex SF, but I think Peckinpah makes a distinction between machismo and professionalism/men doing admittedly compromised things to make a living yet having certain standards they uphold (as do the Wild Bunch), just as he makes a distinction between doing dirty jobs and doing dirty jobs but not shitting on your friends and innocent people. I think this is most pronounced in "The Killer Elite"--the Caan character has *friends* he won't back down on.

To me, the great thing about Peckinpah is his realization that good or at least loyal and comptent men get forced into situations that aren't black-and-white. Certainly the Wild Bunch are mercenaries, killers, but they remain loyal to each other and the real test in Peckinpah is how you do those admittedly compromised things and how you treat your friends. And it's a rough not a genteel world they move in, so although I'm no proponent of "machismo" I do think to apply certain standards to that world is just plain foolish--which Peckinpah makes clear, I think. I don't know about anyone else, but I've had jobs where I had to make concessions to my so-called "morality" and have been forced to really think hard about what morality I'm actually adhering to, and at the end of it my co-workers and I have taken a cold-eyed view of the situation, have kept our mouths shut when we need to, have spoken up when it's become intolerable or a line has been crossed, have walked away from jobs/situations that don't smell right, that don't deliver the necessary payoff in return for our "compromises." Which seems, to me, a sane way to look at the world; none of us could've done it without the loyalty we felt toward each other, the collective sense we're going to weather this and keep our integrity. What makes the world Peckinpah attractive to me is that he explores all this, and he tempts you into not feeling anything. As in the famous opening sequence of "Wild Bunch" when they shoot up the town in the midst of a temperance meeting. Temperance, feh, unrealistic idealism that needs to be questioned...but of course, maybe not shot up. Yet you feel a pleasure in the violence. It ain't simple and I for one don't want it to be.

es hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, Alex SF, but I think Peckinpah makes a distinction between machismo and professionalism/men doing admittedly compromised things to make a living yet having certain standards they uphold (as do the Wild Bunch), just as he makes a distinction between doing dirty jobs and doing dirty jobs but not shitting on your friends and innocent people. I think this is most pronounced in "The Killer Elite"--the Caan character has *friends* he won't back down on.

To me, the great thing about Peckinpah is his realization that good or at least loyal and comptent men get forced into situations that aren't black-and-white. Certainly the Wild Bunch are mercenaries, killers, but they remain loyal to each other and the real test in Peckinpah is how you do those admittedly compromised things and how you treat your friends. And it's a rough not a genteel world they move in, so although I'm no proponent of "machismo" I do think to apply certain standards to that world is just plain foolish--which Peckinpah makes clear, I think. I don't know about anyone else, but I've had jobs where I had to make concessions to my so-called "morality" and have been forced to really think hard about what morality I'm actually adhering to, and at the end of it my co-workers and I have taken a cold-eyed view of the situation, have kept our mouths shut when we need to, have spoken up when it's become intolerable or a line has been crossed, have walked away from jobs/situations that don't smell right, that don't deliver the necessary payoff in return for our "compromises." Which seems, to me, a sane way to look at the world; none of us could've done it without the loyalty we felt toward each other, the collective sense we're going to weather this and keep our integrity. What makes the world of Peckinpah attractive to me is that he explores all this, and he tempts you into not feeling anything. As in the famous opening sequence of "Wild Bunch" when they shoot up the town in the midst of a temperance meeting. Temperance, feh, unrealistic idealism that needs to be questioned...but of course, maybe not shot up. Yet you feel a pleasure in the violence. It ain't simple and I for one don't want it to be.

es hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with es hurt, both times.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry fer the double-post man.

es hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I wasn't arguing that Peckinpah doesn't (at least in some of films) attempt to confront these issues (and I like to think that at times he does--but perhaps that's just me justifying my love for them) but I think one of the problems with Peckinpah is that there is always the far simpler reading to be made and that easier reading (that this is not a complicated film, not a real critique/engagement of machismo/honor/etc, but instead a far simple celebration of maleness, a swansong for an era when men were allowed to be men, a rumination of the emasculation of the post-modern man, etc. . .) is the one's most people tend to make. Subtlety is not most peoples' strong suit and when a film like The Wild Bunch or Fuller's The Big Red One comes along it's always easy for critics (or film students or Pauline Kael haha) to point out all the minor ways it may attempt to subvert whatever classic notions of masculinity it does and ya know ignore the fact that those are the exceptions to the rule, that but for those few sequences and maybe the film's production values it could for all intensive purposes be another John Wayne picture. So I agree with you Es, but a lot of Peckinpah's films make me uncomfortable none-the-less.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Any news on a "Pat Garrett And Billy The Kid" disc?

Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I imagine, if a new cut is playing Cannes, that a disc would follow.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Peckinpah!

Gesundheit!

The Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 20:05 (nineteen years ago) link

So I agree with you Es, but a lot of Peckinpah's films make me uncomfortable none-the-less.

Gotcha AlexSF...yeah, "Straw Dogs" makes me highly uncomfortable, you know...

es hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:19 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...
Just saw the 'restored' Major Dundee. If you're at all interested in him you gotta see it, but man it feels lots longer than 136 mins. Heston is better than usual (as is often the case when he plays a prick) til he gets his existential crisis (enter the breasty Mexican women), the ensemble is good, but Richard Harris frequently reminds me of Dave SCTV Thomas doing him. Of primary interest as a Wild Bunch warmup.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 04:48 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm sad I missed the re-release of Major Dundee

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I would love to see a re-release/restore of Cross Of Iron (way way underrated)

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:46 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
PECKINPAH

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=58825

gear (gear), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 06:15 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...
FYI, this four-disc set is currently available, and the cheapest place as far as I know is Tower Records, which has it for $39.99(!)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000BRP4B2.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

gear (gear), Sunday, 15 January 2006 08:08 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Over the last few days I've screened The Ballad of Cable Hogue and Pat Garrett. The former was a revelation. It runs too long, but the material's picaresque elements release Peckinpah from the obligations of realism, and as such the film has a charm and warmth I thought was beyond him.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 10 February 2006 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I love Peck, but that "Butterfly Mornings" song in Cable Hogue is totally painful

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 10 February 2006 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link

i just wanna say that Ride The High Country is awesome.

Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Friday, 10 February 2006 02:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I love Peck, but that "Butterfly Mornings" song in Cable Hogue is totally painful

Not when Stella Stevens sings it to Jason Robards. It's sweet!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 10 February 2006 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link

ahh alfred you make me feel like a jaded cynic! that scene just gives me the icks.

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 10 February 2006 03:21 (eighteen years ago) link

five months pass...
Watched The Ballad of Cable Hogue last night; it's nice, but a bit distended (and speeded-up comedy sequences generally blechhh). A lot to be said for Strother Martin begging for his life in long underwear tho. Robards is fine but the character is cuddlier and inferior to his outlaw in the Leone film.

I liked how Stella Stevens didn't whitewash Bloody Sam in her DVD interview.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 July 2006 12:26 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
Just watched Ride the High Country again, and it's still his best, dammit. McCrea is great, Scott deeper than I've ever seen him -- even Mariette Hartley is good.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 August 2006 18:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, it's pretty great. Is there supposed to be something wrong with Mariette Hartley- she was great on that Star Trek episode, was it "All Our Yesterdays"?

My Little Ruud Book (Ken L), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Apparently it was the penultimate episode!

My Little Ruud Book (Ken L), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I think she was in one of the first non-kiddie films I saw in a theater: Marooned!

No, I like her, but as with most middle-aged-plus actresses, she's generally been wasted for 25 years (since the camera commercials with James Garner?).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:19 (seventeen years ago) link

(the ultimate ST ep was the one where that ambitious Starfleet woman took over Kirk's body, which needed to be excerpted for the Shatner roast)

I didn't get to listen to much of the RTHC DVD commentary, but apparently Peckinpah read the Bible often (thoroughly twice, claimed one scholar).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link

("The Lights of Zatar"?)

My Little Ruud Book (Ken L), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

(No, sorry, it was "Turnabout Intruder")

My Little Ruud Book (Ken L), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I wish someone would counter Alex's argument that, besides
a "few sequences" (as if even 1 sequence [like the closing
massacre] can't entirely change the spirit of a film) and
production values, The Wild Bunch could be "just another
John Wayne picture." Also, I wonder why machismo has been
categorically spurned - can't it have specific, healthy
applications, as do, say, anger and sorrow?


Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 25 August 2006 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...

has anyone noticed that nearly all the best stuff in Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid doesn't center on Coburn or Kristofferson? ie, Slim Pickens, Katy Jurado, "Knockin' on Heaven's Door." And Chill Wills babbling in that long trading-post confrontation.

Also, that new cut on the DVD isn't really SP's, it's the experts'. And possibly better for it.

Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 15:52 (sixteen years ago) link

I still haven't seen that one. I didn't realize Katy Jurado was in it.

James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 15:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Fairly high billing for two scenes. Dylan said she was his inspiration for "Heaven's Door."

Bob really seems to have wandered into camera range for much of his role. Seeing it really didn't improve the 'Billy' Gere portion of I'm Not There.

Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 15:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Fairly high billing for two scenes.

There is a Spanish channel here in town that plays Garrett a few times a year. In their bumpers, Jurado is third billed after Coburn and Kristofferson.

C. Grisso/McCain, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 16:00 (sixteen years ago) link

I love that speech she gives to Lloyd Bridges in High Noon about the shoulders.

James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 16:07 (sixteen years ago) link

three years pass...

First time watching The Getaway tonight. I've got a bottle of wine to get me through the MacGraws.

raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link

they don't make PG movies like they used to, i tell you what

('_') (omar little), Thursday, 14 October 2010 21:17 (thirteen years ago) link

Or omelets like the kind McQueen makes in the first third.

raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 14 October 2010 21:17 (thirteen years ago) link

the omelette of pent-up sexual frustration

('_') (omar little), Thursday, 14 October 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia ending with the machine gun firing at the viewer = damn dood.

assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 6 January 2011 19:55 (thirteen years ago) link

kinda his most mysanthropic/nihilist movie

assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 6 January 2011 19:55 (thirteen years ago) link

Perhaps mentioned upthread, but one of my favorite lines from any critic, ever, is Ebert describing Dylan in "Pat Garrett ..." as looking "as if he's the victim of a practical joke involving itching powder."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 January 2011 20:04 (thirteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

Ugg

Mucho! Macho! Honcho!: Turn Off The Dark (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 19 August 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link

eleven months pass...
seven months pass...

Richard Brody on The Getaway

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/movies/2013/03/dvd-of-the-week-the-getaway.html

Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 March 2013 13:14 (eleven years ago) link

he picks some of my favorite scenes from that film. the shotgun sequence is probably my favorite thing of peckinpah's, full stop.

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:41 (eleven years ago) link

two years pass...
one month passes...

lol @ Dylan reading tincan labels scene

Οὖτις, Friday, 1 May 2015 21:27 (nine years ago) link

Watched "Ride the High Country", v enjoyable as far as fairly trad westerns go. lol'd at the bit early on where Judd takes Heck's gun out of his holster while he's ogling women.

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 18:17 (nine years ago) link

RtHC is a stone fucking classic.

Convoy (his next to last feature?) newly out on BD/DVD.

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 May 2015 19:04 (nine years ago) link

I appreciated how much was crammed into it, lots of great little fluorishes and bit parts throughout. it doesn't get intense the way the best of his later work does, though that's not a knock against it, it's tone is different.

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 19:46 (nine years ago) link

it doesn't get intense the way the best of his later work does

Disagree. All the wedding stuff is extremely creepy and intense.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 8 May 2015 20:03 (nine years ago) link

it's creepy, but it's also punctuated by grotesque/comic elements

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 20:05 (nine years ago) link

Scott and McCrea' chemistry is beautiful, some of the best I've seen b/w two guys on film.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 May 2015 20:17 (nine years ago) link

*McCrea's.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 May 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link

the bit where they meet each other at the beginning w Scott in his fake wig+mustache+beard combo is v lol

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 20:20 (nine years ago) link

seven months pass...

Rewatch of The Wild Bunch in 35mm today (WB no longer has a decent 70mm print, apparently)... That is some *grizzled* cast (Holden looks way older than 50).

And the villainous general is the most well-regarded Mexican film director of all time.

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 December 2015 06:31 (eight years ago) link

And his lieutenant later had some directing success himself *ducks*

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 December 2015 13:02 (eight years ago) link

I've always wanted to read Fernandez's autobiography.

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 December 2015 13:04 (eight years ago) link

Alfonso Arau is the guy with the teeth, right?

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 December 2015 14:25 (eight years ago) link

Yup.

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 December 2015 14:29 (eight years ago) link

Guess it is not an autobiography: http://cinemexicano.mty.itesm.mx/libros/indio_pistola.html

Die Angst des Elfmans beim Torschluss (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 December 2015 14:49 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

Saw a 35mm print of The Killer Elite last night; certainly no masterwork, but i thought it was a watchable, vicious 'hangout' movie. Caan is funny. The mouthpiece for the lefty politics is, if you can believe it, Burt Young.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 May 2017 15:53 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...

Just saw the 'restored' Major Dundee. If you're at all interested in him you gotta see it, but man it feels lots longer than 136 mins. Heston is better than usual (as is often the case when he plays a prick) til he gets his existential crisis (enter the breasty Mexican women), the ensemble is good, but Richard Harris frequently reminds me of Dave SCTV Thomas doing him. Of primary interest as a Wild Bunch warmup.

agree w this take, although I would add that the racial/political subtext of the gang makes for a bunch of interesting scenes. It does feel much longer than 136 minutes, at one point during Heston's Mexican Holiday I started to wonder if the plot was just going to go some totally different direction and they were *never* actually going to get their Navajo bad guy. Wouldn't have minded if it did, I could happily watch Peckinpah scenes of Mexican villages for hours. Given the length I kinda wish some of the supporting roles (Ben Johnson for ex.) had been given more to do but enjoyable on the whole.

Οὖτις, Friday, 31 August 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link

Haven't seen it. I mentioned J. Hoberman's The Dream Life on the Trump-film thread; I think Major Dundee was another of his key LBJ films, along with The Chase and The Alamo.

clemenza, Saturday, 1 September 2018 01:45 (five years ago) link

four years pass...

I watched The Getaway last night for the first time, another chapter in the Tarantino book. Looked good (Lucien Ballard), but it just seemed to meander along. Al Lettieri is so much better in The Godfather as Sollozzo. I liked the Slim Pickens ending, though, supposedly drastically different than the novel.

clemenza, Monday, 12 December 2022 19:06 (one year ago) link

The Getaway is terrific when it sticks to the double-crossing and gunplay, less good with Lettieri’s kinda bizarre side plot. Though I think he was plenty good during this era, just a great performer of genuinely evil bastards. Of course it was his *only* era, he died in 1975 (only 47!)

MacGraw isn’t as bad here as people suggest, but she’s not really right for the part.

Mighty brutal and sexual for a PG film but it sure was a different era.

omar little, Monday, 12 December 2022 19:21 (one year ago) link

Kael used to be brutal with MacGraw--John Simon-level mean--so I was encouraged by the first 20-30 minutes where I thought she was pretty good. The longer the film went on, though, she started to lapse into that smirk that marked Goodbye, Columbus and Love Story. Tarantino's background on the making of the film is interesting--Bogdanovich as director?! And because of that, Cybill Shepherd instead of MacGraw.

Not quite the bloodbath of The Wild Bunch, but yeah, PG is crazy.

clemenza, Monday, 12 December 2022 19:45 (one year ago) link

MacGraw’s too much of an innocent for the role, part of the plot really hinges on her winning back Doc’s trust when she’s clearly eminently trustworthy, and was pushed into a spot where she shouldn’t have been w/Ben Johnson’s character. Of course her character was also therefore easily pushed around, in this characterization, so maybe that was the peckinpah preference. To have a woman more easily put in her place. This flick doesn’t have the best sexual politics obv, the less said about Sally Struthers here the better.

omar little, Wednesday, 14 December 2022 00:57 (one year ago) link

Didn't have the film career she should have. She was good (or at least suited the role) in All in the Family; in The Getaway and, even more so, Five Easy Pieces, anyone could have filled those roles.

Have you seen The Outfit, omar? I posted about it in the Duvall thread--thought it was sneaky good.

clemenza, Wednesday, 14 December 2022 02:31 (one year ago) link

I watched The Outfit about a month ago. That was a very fucked-up movie, and man, when Robert Duvall is the best-looking man in the cast you're talking about some serious Early Seventies Ugly.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 14 December 2022 02:34 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

I miss James Coburn, one of a kind

Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 15 April 2024 17:45 (three months ago) link

The “Turner” preview is all you really need. Just perfection. Saw it in 35mm with Charles Martin Smith and others who worked on it

beamish13, Monday, 15 April 2024 19:09 (three months ago) link

The only problems with that one is the lack of lead vocal on the "Heaven's Door" scene and failure to include the bit with Garrett's wife.

The 2005 (?) redux fails right of the gate by not using the opening with Garrett's murder. Supposedly those were Peckinpah's wishes. If true, he was more far gone than we thought. Hopefully the new version fixes that.

From FB:

The preview cut that will be available on The Criterion Collection's upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID is not Turner's, but Sam Peckinpah's final and never before seen preview cut, recovered and restored specifically for this release -- the closest we have to a director's cut of the film that we will ever get. Its 2k restoration will be included in the blu-ray, along with a 4k (and tweaked) 50th-anniversary restoration of the final cut and the theatrical cut.

Here's the story: A "heist" was engineered to get Peckinpah's final preview print out of the projection room where it was screened for MGM execs. Sam was walking off the picture, and a Watergate-esque "break-in" was orchestrated by those who felt that Sam's preview needed to be preserved. Unfortunately, the clean up crew didn't realize that it was an interlock print. Sound and picture were separate, so they grabbed the picture and left the sound behind whose retrieval required a second heist. But all missions were ultimately successful. When Sam was presented with the print, he was so paranoid that MGM was going to come after it that he put a fake title ("The Racquet Club;" pictured) on the cans and leader. It's never been released until now, because it was among Sam's personal prints, not in the studio vaults.

When Michael Chaiken reached out to me on behalf of Criterion about their restoration and upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID, I got him in contact with Sam's friend and archivist Don Hyde, who pointed them in the right direction to locate and restore Sam's preview cut. I also encouraged them to contact Mike Siegel, who ended up making a documentary for this release, and connected Michael with Jeff Slater, who contributed from his abundance of archival material for the special features and provided additional contacts for supplemental material.

In short, this was a team effort -- and we are so grateful for Criterion's collaborative spirit to ensure that we did right both by Sam and all of his fans who have waited so patiently for its release. Now it's up to us to honor their work and procure our copies, which releases on 7/2/24 and can be pre-ordered here: https://www.criterion.com/films/29028-pat-garrett-and-billy-the-kid

only seen it once, can't remember the version it was. hopefully one of those cuts features an extended scene of bob dylan's character just reciting canned goods.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 16 April 2024 02:49 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

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