ok what the fuck is happening in ukraine

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with details about post soviet politics, and links to realvent background sites, please.

anthony, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link

layers of corruption bubble to the surface at election results time

lukey (Lukey G), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Ukraine is now controlled by a giant cat, except they had to put a human brain in the cat's head and they used Hitler's.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link

so they drugged to opposition dude (after years of opposition journos murdered, politicians intimidated etc) and forced through a victory for the pro Kremline Bad Dude (a la Double Dragon), but now everyoones pissed off and saying they are at the end of their tether like in Georgia, but mad shit like that prob wont happen cos Ukraine is bigger and less weird and poor and alien to the West so there iwll have to be some sort of dissapation of tension. They already did the tents-in-main-square thing about the journo and then that sort of petered out. so i reckon Yankovich stays in power, everyone settles down (sort of), ukrainians gripe about russian influence for another X years.

but maybe there iwll be some sort of miracle transformation.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:11 (nineteen years ago) link

The situation reminds me a lot of Andrey Kurkov books.

jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I wish this were a Bela Tarr movie.

I'm serious ... Ti-i-i-i-im (deangulberry), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I went to the post office on my lunch hour yesterday, and there was a giant group of protesters in Daley Plaza carrying Ukrainian flags and waving handmade signs that said, "ELECTION IS A FRAUD!"

Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link

What was the opposition leader supposedly drugged with? They showed before and after photos of him on the news last night and, man.

sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link

It is a mystery to all.

I'm serious ... Ti-i-i-i-im (deangulberry), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

He wasn't drugged. They just replaced him with a significantly older, grayer man.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Has anyne seen John Major lately?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Powell: U.S. Rejects Ukraine Vote Results

WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said Wednesday the United States cannot accept the results of elections in Ukraine, which the opposition says was marred by fraud.

Powell warned "there will be consequences" for the United States' relationship with Ukraine as a result of the developments in the former Soviet bloc nation.

Powell spoke shortly after election officials in Ukraine declared that Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych won the election over opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko. The announcement raised fears of violence in Kiev, where tens of thousands of demonstrators have been demanding that the results be overturned.

I'm serious ... Ti-i-i-i-im (deangulberry), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha, that's some pretty funny shit from the US government.

kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:30 (nineteen years ago) link


teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link

the ukranian girl in my program wore her orange scarf today :(

g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

whats with the :(?

orange is a wicked colour

argh i was reafing baout the ddrug they think was used on him, it is something with "chlor" in the name, and accelerates acne to a massive extent or something.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 22:06 (nineteen years ago) link

heres a link to what i was talking about

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 22:40 (nineteen years ago) link


Ed (dali), Thursday, 25 November 2004 07:43 (nineteen years ago) link

orange is the campaign color of the dude who got poisoned!! she was not happy, so :(

g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 25 November 2004 08:08 (nineteen years ago) link

which one is the dude who got poisoned? the Kremlin guy or the Yankee guy?

dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 25 November 2004 08:51 (nineteen years ago) link

man, I bet she's hot
aren't ukranian girls hot?

I mean, until they turn 30 and immediately turn super-dumpy

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 25 November 2004 14:04 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i mean its just cool that she is showing her support really. i thought you were pro-Yankovich or soemthing. not that you shouldnt be, but it would be an/....unusual position to be in at the least.

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 25 November 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link

it always makes me sad when people get ugly
unless I'm competing directly with them for ass

trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Thursday, 25 November 2004 14:31 (nineteen years ago) link

ed that blog is wicked

i really wanna go to kiev


ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 25 November 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link

could be

Ed (dali), Thursday, 25 November 2004 15:57 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
one month passes...
If I was Prime Minister, I would totally dress like Yulia Tymoshenko

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:56 (nineteen years ago) link

She's fucking hot eh?

kate/papa november (papa november), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, she's like the coolest PM ever! She's a wanted crime suspect in Russia though, for assumed corruption.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Man i don't care what she's done. She's making me drool


kate/papa november (papa november), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:02 (nineteen years ago) link

man did i ever make a shitty prediction (upthread)

nice pics of timoshenko. whats with the c.17th thing? is this some ukrainian nationalism schtick? national dress a gogo?

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link

The hair is definitely a Ukrainian peasant girl thing. I think the clothes are inspired by something.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I think it's stunning, and a vast improvement on her old hair.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 24 February 2005 16:15 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...

A Stratfor note today:


Ukraine made a radical policy adjustment on Thursday by essentially ending its bid for NATO membership. The move, which would have been unthinkable as recently as a month ago, probably resulted from external forces, namely Russia. Ukraine’s abrupt departure from its long-standing bid indicates the ominous involvement of Moscow. In its effort to maintain its security buffer, Russia probably employed its FSB security services.

Economic tools can include fostering closer integration, raising or lowering barriers to trade, embargoing another country, threatening to undermine a country’s financial stability by mass sales of its currency, or by simply shelling out cash. In the case of Ukraine –- and by extension, Western Europe –- Russia frequently has employed natural gas cutoffs.

Political tools are varied, and focus on finding political weak spots for later manipulation. The options include promoting closer integration among citizens with a common heritage found in both of the countries in question. These ties can then be manipulated later. For example, one country can threaten to intervene in the other to protect an allied ethnic group from alleged discrimination. Russia could employ this tactic in relation to ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

Military tools to influence another state’s behavior include the threat of invasion, conspicuously aiming weapons — anything from artillery to intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs)— at the other country, or providing military assistance to the government or the opposition groups in the other country. Russia’s Feb. 12 threat to aim ICBMs at foreign forces that might deploy in Ukraine falls in this category.

The 1989 collapse of the Soviet Union and Russia’s subsequent loss of influence in its near abroad and in the West laid the foundation for Russia’s current geopolitical trajectory. Russia’s resurgence under President Vladimir Putin has involved a strong effort to regain the influence, respect and national security it believes it is due. Moscow’s desire is especially keen given previous Russian humiliations — particularly those suffered by the government of the late Boris Yeltsin, when the West encroached on what Russia perceives as its prerogatives. Russia, however, lacks many of the tools the Soviet Union had at its disposal for compelling other countries’ behavior. This complicates Putin’s effort to satisfy the Russian geopolitical imperative of establishing hegemony in its near abroad.

The Russian resurgence took a potentially fatal hit over Kosovo’s Feb. 18 secession from Serbia. This was an issue of minor importance to the United States and most Western European countries, but a major threat to Russia’s effort to demonstrate its return to major power status. For Russia and Putin to survive the Kosovo insult, retribution elsewhere in the Russian near abroad was expected — namely in the Caucasus, Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states.

Ukraine’s dramatic about-face on NATO comes in the context of Kosovar independence. Ukraine’s pro-Western president, Viktor Yushchenko — who came to power in his country’s 2004 Orange Revolution — was clamoring as recently as a month ago for NATO membership, despite a lukewarm reception from the alliance. Rumor has it that Yushchenko’s sudden change at the NATO foreign ministers’ meeting in Brussels occurred after the Russian president literally ordered him to withdraw Ukraine’s NATO bid, probably reminding him of the aforementioned Russian economic leverage over Ukraine.

Putin likely did not rely on economic coercion alone, however, and we can assume the FSB helped change Ukraine’s mind on NATO. The FSB is quite good at pressuring individuals using threats, intimidation, enticements and even sophisticated assassinations. Yushchenko knows the capabilities of the secret service underworld well, having barely survived a poisoning while seeking office in 2004.

Russia and the FSB probably decided that bringing the existing Ukrainian leadership in line would be easier than introducing a new leadership, allowing Moscow to avoid the pitfalls of Ukrainian politics. Given the lukewarm reception to Ukraine’s membership bid, Kiev could simply have let its application fall by the wayside. Instead, it made an active policy reversal. Compelling Yushenko’s U-turn on Ukraine’s NATO bid thus represents a significant Russian achievement, one that others — particularly Georgia — will observe closely.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 March 2008 06:20 (fifteen years ago) link

The willingness of right-wing analysts to suggest that personal threats by the FSB against the Ukrainian government were probably behind the policy change, while completely omitting to mention the saleient fact that Gazprom did in fact cut gas supplies to Ukraine beginning on Monday and only restored full flows on Thursday... well, you're smart guys I'm sure Stratfor, but don't pretend you have less of a policy agenda than Putin does.

mitya, Saturday, 8 March 2008 04:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I imagine anybody writing about Russia who doesn't themselves work for the Kremlin is likely to have on about fifteen tinfoil hats as regards the FSB/GRU apparatus, and with perfectly understandable reason

El Tomboto, Saturday, 8 March 2008 04:50 (fifteen years ago) link

five years pass...

it has come to...trebuchets


pessimishaim (imago), Thursday, 23 January 2014 01:44 (ten years ago) link

four weeks pass...

can someone with more geopolitical smarts explain what's happening to me?

the american MSM seems to painting this as a peaceful-freedom-fighters vs. entrenched-corrupt-government thing, but I get the feeling it's more complicated. for one thing reading the foreign press tells me that some ultra- right-wing groups (whose nationalist distaste for Russia apparently trumps reservations they might have about the EU) with a distinctly anti-Semitic bent (and some soft-right groups who have connections to the ultra-rightists) are taking an increasingly visible (and increasingly violent) role in the Kiev protests.

but you know, I don't really know anything about all this. so 'splain me.

espring (amateurist), Thursday, 20 February 2014 00:30 (ten years ago) link

some discussion here - Rolling European Politics Thread

ogmor, Thursday, 20 February 2014 01:05 (ten years ago) link

the protesters are fascists trying to impose the EU on a country that doesn't want it

AIDS (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 21 February 2014 05:41 (ten years ago) link


i think that washington post thing is a little pollyanna-ish (pollyanish?) about the nature of the protest movement(s), it's true.

espring (amateurist), Friday, 21 February 2014 05:43 (ten years ago) link

but i honestly don't know what to read/who to believe.

espring (amateurist), Friday, 21 February 2014 05:44 (ten years ago) link

I'll break it down as i see it.

Yanukovich indicated that he wanted to sign a provisional agreement with the EU to liberalise trade relations. He's not on good terms with Putin and Russia's decision to keep charging Ukraine high fees for gas (which is partly Ukraine's fault for reasons i won't go into) has wrecked the Ukrainian economy. He took the view that opening up Ukraine to the EU would have some short term difficulties (cheap EU products competing with domestic Ukrainian goods, etc) but it was worth it for the potential long term gains. The EU prevaricated over exactly what was on offer, didn't give a clear indication that full membership could be on the cards in the future and wasn't willing to provide financial assistance to help compensate for short-term hardship.

At the same time, Russia did what Russia always does. They said that if you don't want to have a special relationship (in this case preferring the EU over a post-Soviet trade agreement) then you can't expect special favours. Russia started imposing the kind of border checks on Ukrainian traffic into Russia that Poland always has on the other border and stopped giving Ukrainian companies preference on government contracts over Indian, Chinese, etc firms. Ukraine's eastern side is economically reliant on Russia and trade income went down by about 30% over the course of two or three months.

Ukraine also owes Russia a stack of cash for gas it hasn't paid for. The Ukrainian government was very close to defaulting until Russia offered to defer billions of dollars worth of loans in return for signing their trade agreement. Yanukovich didn't really have much of a choice other than accepting.

This went down very badly with a wide range of people, from EU-minded liberals to hardline neo-Fascists and ended up highlighting deep political, regional and ethnic splits in the country that go back decades. Bear in mind that Stalin was responsible for starving millions of Ukrainian peasants and Ukrainian nationalists later collaborated with the Nazis to murder hundreds of thousands of Russians and Jewish people. Western Ukraine remains strongly nationalist - both in the soft sense of wanting to make sure that the country is free of Russian control and in the less soft 'Mein Kampf displayed in bookshop windows' sense. The nationalists are not all violent right-wing extremists, as the Russian press would like to have it, but some of them certainly are. On the other hand, lots of the East of the country, and Crimea, retain a strong Russian identity.

There is no unified protest movement. Some are hardline nationalists, some are liberals, some want to be part of the EU, some want to be free of Russian control, some want to split the country in two, some want to unite it. There are a million positions in between each. The protests are also equally about the economy. Ukraine has been in a massive slump for several years, partly as a result of the oil situation, and people are sick of it.

They're also sick of corrupt, criminal politicians. Pretty much everyone who has held a political post in Ukraine since independence is a corrupt criminal, though, so Yanukovich is not unique in that regard. There's a chance that Klitchko might be different though which is why a lot of people are uniting behind him.

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Friday, 21 February 2014 09:02 (ten years ago) link

that's the sanest, most even thing i've read about the situation since i stopped listening to the BBC pretending to be impartial

we sold our Solsta for Rock'n'Roll (Noodle Vague), Friday, 21 February 2014 09:08 (ten years ago) link

I think that's about right, although the geographic split being talked about doesn't seem to be working out so much in reality -- my Ukrainian pals are all Russian-speaking Easterners, and are supporters of the protests. Yanukovich is also widely considered to be the worst of a bunch of idiots -- this is an "enough is enough" moment in many ways. There are neo-fascists in the protest movement, but I have seen no sources that are not Russian-friendly that suggest that they are the majority or growing, and there sure as hell are neo-fascists in Yanukovich's troops as well. There are agents provocateurs at work as well. For the people on the ground this is primarily and simply anti-government protest, but of course there is far more going on than just the people on the ground.

Three Word Username, Friday, 21 February 2014 09:20 (ten years ago) link

in the context you folks describe the way the west (esp. US) is dealing w/ this is kind of embarrassing.

we all know john mccain is an idiot, but appearing with some of the right-wing protest groups and calling for "freedom" was one of his more embarrassingly credulous photo ops.

what about those folks that briefly came into power after the "orange revolution"? my understanding was that they were both crooks _and_ victims of political show trials.

espring (amateurist), Friday, 21 February 2014 09:23 (ten years ago) link

The elite political class in Ukraine is a disaster -- the lack of a central strong figure leading the protests is both a result of and a reaction to that.

Three Word Username, Friday, 21 February 2014 09:33 (ten years ago) link

Yes, Yushchenko (who was president) is a minor crook, his son is a fairly major one. Tymoshenko (who was Prime Minister) stole several billion dollars worth of gas from Russia while people on both sides of the border were dying in poverty. Her reinvention as a St Joan figure is laughable.

Yushchenko and Yanukovich were both PM under Leonid Kuchma, the journalist-murdering crim who was Ukraine's first independent President, so the idea of a major political difference between the two is somewhat overstated.

Ukraine is generally though of as more corrupt than Nigeria. All politicians are required to state their income on electoral forms. There was one election in the mid-2000s where every single candidate but one claimed that their only source of income was their government salary of £5,000 - £13,000. All had BMWs, plush Kyiv apartments and massive country dachas. The one candidate who didn't claim to be living off his stipend ran with the campaign tagline "i'm too rich to need to be corrupt!". He didn't win.

Much of Ukraine's economy is carved up between a small number of oligarch factions and they bankroll everything. Some are pro-Tymoshenko, some are pro-Yanukovich. Quite a few are in favour of EU membership as they think it'll stop future governments from trying to reclaim the money they've stolen, some are against it as they think it'll prevent them from stealing more.

The oligarchs tend to be worse than the politicians. Ukraine' richest man, Rinat Akhmetov (who's more famous as Chairman of Shakhtar Donetsk), for example, was a prominent member of the Donbass Mafia and acquired most of his wealth when his boss (and former Chairman of Shakhtar) died in a bomb attack at a football match.

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Friday, 21 February 2014 09:46 (ten years ago) link

but yeah removing more of the wagner leadership mightve been part of the plan too

lag∞n, Thursday, 24 August 2023 19:04 (six months ago) link

https://t.co/9sTuYSi0Sb pic.twitter.com/0v7VojqzGu

— Erik Baker (@erikmbaker) August 24, 2023

xyzzzz__, Friday, 25 August 2023 13:12 (six months ago) link

the doubles have entered the discourse

mark s, Friday, 25 August 2023 13:21 (six months ago) link

I’ve been doing the Bane voice “crashing this plane.. with no survivors!” bit since a headline said exactly that

mh, Friday, 25 August 2023 13:36 (six months ago) link

I dunno, if Putin said he didn't do it, that's good enough for me.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 August 2023 13:55 (six months ago) link

Rishi Sunak says UK intelligence services consider it was "most likely" he was on the plane 🙄

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Friday, 25 August 2023 14:21 (six months ago) link

he just posted his "overlooked 50" on ilm

mark s, Friday, 25 August 2023 14:23 (six months ago) link

1. Guillemots - Through the Windowpane

actual veggie mexican pizza received (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 25 August 2023 14:26 (six months ago) link

wait, what's this about a plane?

actual veggie mexican pizza received (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 25 August 2023 14:27 (six months ago) link

lot's of bossa nova deep cuts in his 50, he's a total Brazilophile

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Friday, 25 August 2023 14:32 (six months ago) link

2. The Coup- Pick a Bigger Weapon

3. Raekwon - Criminology

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 25 August 2023 18:06 (six months ago) link

Tom Petty - “Learning To Fly”

papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 25 August 2023 18:13 (six months ago) link

and then "Free Fallin'"

Dave Matthews, "Crash Into Me"

Pontius Pilates (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 25 August 2023 20:00 (six months ago) link

Burning Airlines- "Earthbound"

Van Halen - "Finish What Ya Started"

omar little, Friday, 25 August 2023 20:47 (six months ago) link

Naked City - "Perfume of a Critic's Burning Flesh"

The Terroir of Tiny Town (WmC), Friday, 25 August 2023 20:58 (six months ago) link

Bloodrock "DOA"

earlnash, Friday, 25 August 2023 21:01 (six months ago) link

Slade - "Wheels Ain't Coming Down"

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 25 August 2023 21:17 (six months ago) link

Buffalo Springfield - Expecting to Fly

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 25 August 2023 21:20 (six months ago) link

gentlemen you cant poll in here

close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Saturday, 26 August 2023 01:59 (six months ago) link

Boris Johnson has claimed that President Putin is “being transformed before our eyes into an Asiatic despot”.

In a column for the Daily Mail, the former UK prime minister said Putin’s “mask is now fully off” following the death of Russian mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin in an attack he described as “violent liquidation”.

“I cannot think of another example of such ostentatious and uninhibited savagery by a world leader – not in our lifetimes,” he wrote.

Er, hello? One of your chums, I believe, Boris....


Monthly Python (Tom D.), Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:45 (six months ago) link

And Britland will be rolling out the red carpet for him very soon.

nashwan, Saturday, 26 August 2023 12:10 (six months ago) link


3 hour interview with a guy from Wagner PMC. Doesn't speak English so is translated by the laughing patriot medic from the previous two interviews upthread.

Not too far in yet, but so far

- joined prior to 2022
- has served in Ukraine and 'another continent', not sure why phrased like that
- joined Wagner for the idea not the money

anvil, Tuesday, 29 August 2023 09:44 (six months ago) link

the idea being---?

dow, Tuesday, 29 August 2023 17:11 (six months ago) link

?? the greater glory of Mother Russia??

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 29 August 2023 17:36 (six months ago) link

Profit ... in the marketplace of ideas, man.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 29 August 2023 17:40 (six months ago) link

two weeks pass...

Just past halfway in the Wagner interview, not the easiest to follow and the interviewer lapses into leading questions a few times, which he managed to avoid last time out

- Radicalised by anti-russian Ukrainian propaganda not by Russian propaganda. Russian propaganda absolutely useless, has no truck with SImonyan or any of the Kremlim talking heads. Sees them as clowns. Decided he wanted to destroy the enemy of his nation due to the Russophobia he was seeing on telegram. This seems to start around 2019

- Ukraine wasn’t just planning to take back Crimea and Donbas, but also Kuban (Krasnodar), Rostov, Belgorod, and others were on the table (they were already carrying out kidnaps and assassinations not just in Donbass but officially recognised territories). Assasinations increased under Zelensky

- Interview goes into the weeds with some difficult to follow stuff about Ukrainian women preferring to become prostitutes in Hamburg, men doing drugs, nazis, the dark web in Germany, lynchings

- Doesnt believer Prigozhin was killed by Russia (no follow up on this for some reason)

- In Wagner there are foreign units, there is a unit of English speakers, a unit of French speakers, a unit of German speakers, and a unit of Arabic speakers. There are no Australians.

- In his particular unit there are no foreigners, only foreigners he has comes across are Poles and Georgians on the other side but they didn’t talk because he had killed them

- Poland has sent good sappers and technical specialists to Ukraine. But Ukrainian skill level has gone down since Americans started training them. Couldn’t tell if serious comment or not because also British, France, Americans good at technical expertise

- Why Russia doing badly? Something about a behind scenes agreement between Rus gov and Ukr gov so they didn’t prepare for longer war. Says the high Russian casualty rates are as high as is reported, but ratio is 4-1 and in some cases 7-1

anvil, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:05 (five months ago) link

Ugh, just come across the word (verb) "attrit" in an article about Ukraine. Inevitably, one feels, it's a word used by the US military.

Monthly Python (Tom D.), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:16 (five months ago) link

can confirm via watching terrible youtubes

lag∞n, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:17 (five months ago) link

Something about Bucha that was difficult to follow - and was brought up by the Wagner guy, not the interviewer.

- Says the civilians there were killed by Ukrainian artillery but then Russian soldiers who had been there ran into trouble with the FSB because of it and were 'negotiated into Belarus" where they faced physical consequences that went beyond simple broken bones. The FSB seemed to have heavily interrogated some Russian soldiers based on western media reports. He knew this because he was later in trenches with people who had been at Bucha

anvil, Saturday, 16 September 2023 02:02 (five months ago) link

Ukraine Special Forces conducting attacks in Sudan? WTF
Maybe we are heading to WWIII after all

Exclusive: Ukraine’s special services ‘likely’ behind strikes on Wagner-backed forces in Sudan, a Ukrainian military source says


Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 16:56 (five months ago) link

two weeks pass...


Israel we know what you feel today.
Be strong.
Ukrainians with you.

— Ukraine Front Lines (@EuromaidanPR) October 7, 2023

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 7 October 2023 11:57 (four months ago) link


Tracer Hand, Saturday, 7 October 2023 12:35 (four months ago) link

after Israel didn't lift a finger to help Ukraine last year too

symsymsym, Saturday, 7 October 2023 15:53 (four months ago) link

true, but I think this attack is being backed by Iran and that's not good for anyone.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 7 October 2023 15:54 (four months ago) link


lag∞n, Saturday, 7 October 2023 16:10 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Do we have much of an idea of how much population transfer there has been in Mariupol over the last year? My assumption is that most of the people that have been moved into Russia were moved out of Mariupol and that this is also where resettlement and replacement from Russia has been concentrated - especially with it being the only major city under Russian control that is out of the originally occupied territories

I don't really have a handle on just how many people currently living in Mariupol are settlers in comparison to the pre-2022 population, because that seems a massively complicating factor

anvil, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 07:17 (four months ago) link

three months pass...

Strange chess game going on here

Ukrainian special forces are reportedly operating in Sudan in support of the country’s army against Russian Wagner mercenaries aligned with the rebel Rapid Support Forces (RSF), according to a video released on Monday... it has surfaced following months of speculation that Ukrainian forces are operating in Sudan as part of an emerging campaign by Kyiv to strike at Russian interests far beyond the Ukraine war’s frontlines.


Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 20:14 (four weeks ago) link

Ukraine is reportedly struggling to train enough troops for its own front lines and keep them supplied. Sending some of their best trained troops to Sudan seems like a strange tactic, if that is true.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 6 February 2024 20:51 (four weeks ago) link

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well... their expertise would seem to be more useful on the home front

Not sure what the strategy is here

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 20:52 (four weeks ago) link

theyre fighting russia

lag∞n, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 21:14 (four weeks ago) link

i think thats the basic idea, as to why they would choose to fight them in sudan specifically my guess would be russias african operations are a big profit center and a fairly soft target so they are maybe thinking they can inflict some damage on russias bottom line without that much effort

lag∞n, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 21:20 (four weeks ago) link

much more detailed reporting here:


Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 21:37 (four weeks ago) link

that footage of the pickup is crazy

lag∞n, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 21:44 (four weeks ago) link

CNN--Ukraine’s Defence Intelligence claims it has confirmed the use of Starlink satellite communications by Russian forces in occupied areas.

It says it has intercepted conversations which indicate the Starlink terminals are being used to provide internet access to Russia’s 83rd Air Assault Brigade operating in the Donetsk region.

Elon Musk’s SpaceX company, which owns Starlink, says it does not do business of any kind with the Russian government or its military.

“If SpaceX obtains knowledge that a Starlink terminal is being used by a sanctioned or unauthorized party, we investigate the claim and take actions to deactivate the terminal if confirmed,” the company said in a statement.
Starlink, which uses a network of satellites to provide broadband, says its service will not work in Russia, although the statement didn’t address whether it would work in occupied Ukraine.

The service plays a crucial role in Ukrainian battlefield communications. Last year, Kyrylo Budanov, head of the Main Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate, said “absolutely all front lines are using them.”

Ukraine’s claim follows revelations about the satellite system’s use in the war made in a biography of Starlink’s owner Elon Musk, written by Walter Isaacson.

According to an excerpt from the book, Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet.

As Ukrainian submarine drones strapped with explosives approached the Russian fleet, they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly,” Isaacson writes.

Musk’s decision, which left Ukrainian officials begging him to turn the satellites back on, was driven by an acute fear that Russia would respond to a Ukrainian attack on Crimea with nuclear weapons, a fear driven home by Musk’s conversations with senior Russian officials, according to Isaacson.


dow, Sunday, 11 February 2024 22:04 (three weeks ago) link

A more detailed quote in Reuters. coverage:

"Cases of the Russian occupiers' use of the given devices have been registered. It is beginning to take on a systemic nature," the Ukrainian defence ministry's Main Directorate of Intelligence (GUR) quoted spokesman Andriy Yusov as saying.


dow, Sunday, 11 February 2024 22:07 (three weeks ago) link

Situation worsening in Avdiivka. Media attention is more focused on funding and support rather than situation on ground right now, but fairly intense at the moment and potentially quite consequential

anvil, Tuesday, 13 February 2024 00:00 (three weeks ago) link

Situation in Avdiivka getting the most media attention, but Kupyansk looking bad as well now, Ammunition shortage starting to bite. I don't know just how consequential this is, but I presume this starts to make Kharkiv more vulnerable?

anvil, Monday, 19 February 2024 16:47 (two weeks ago) link

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