James Randi: fails to explain away Arigo, the surgeon with the rusty knife

There is no way to reply adequately to Mr. Fuller short of writing a book on scientific method, the ethics of medical journalism, and how to distinguish anecdotes from facts.

This sounds like the kneejerk / cop-out WE-CAN'T-REPLY-SO-THERE-IS-NO-REPLY-U-IZ-WRONG; "SCIENCE" WINNS!! reaction that seems a bit familiar. I'm very skeptical about the knifing-eyeball thing, regardless.

I _have_ been wanting to post somewhere ( where?? on a new thread?) , however, a few vedic astrological prognostications concerning the election, and am wondering if the two gentlemen named above, along with Tuomas and caitlin and Girolamo etc (completing the "NO BS" contingent) would be so kind and gracious enough to indulge this insufferable "irrationalist" in this indignant regard ?

Kenan, I'm presuming silence is a way of saying "SHUT THE FUCK UP," so I guess your answer is no. But I kinda want to now; mixed feelings, really. At least I promise I'll keep it on this thread-hijack, k?

Randi's b.s. does not sound reasonable at all because he has fixated wrongly on one thing he believes he can debunk and he also lied about the man and painted him in the worst possible light: Arigo didn't take people's money.

What it is you would like to happen, re: this man?

I would just like to show that James Randi is full of shit.

Arigo is definitely intriguing; I've heard of him before, but don't know enough about him to say anything either way.

The bit you seemed most sceptical about, the eyeball thing, is oddly enough the part I'm least sceptical about, because it's well-documented that medieval physicians treated cataracts in a pretty similar way (basically, pushing the cloudy lens aside with a blunt stick).

(you probably have a slightly skewed opinion of me based on the astrology threads; I'm not just you average SCIENCE IS RIGHT ALWAYS skeptic. I *want* to believe that things like this can happen, and I *do* believe in "paranormal" phenomena that I've personally experienced)

If you want to believe the capsized version presented by Randi, that's your choice, but it should be obvious just by what's been cited thus far that he's full of shit on this matter. His description of Arigo is flatly at odds with everything else's, including scientific investigation.

Of course, it is only natural for a rationalist to believe there is some rational explanation for something like this, but that doesn't mean Randi isn't full of shit in his dismissal.

I am gonna cease the proposed idea of my thread-hiack for the time being, and give Supernatural Man his space; maybe I'll post the planetary stuff foretelling a Bush victory (and going into America's problematic natat chart) elsewhere. But I am glad to have encountered you again, since I had once gotten your AIM name from Ned, before forgotting it - and now I can just email you. =)

That's all.

Hi hubby ;-)

Well, no, not high pain threshold but anaesthesia. Compare this to Jonn Mumford (aka Swami Somethingorother) jamming a hat pin through an unsuspecting student's lower lip before they know what's up. It's really the same thing only Mumford isn't trying to heal anyone. So, that takes care of the "no pain" part of it.

As for how he "sees" what's wrong with someone, I have no idea, but Arigo isn't the only person that did stuff like this.

Chariot of the Gods? Nah, that's crap.

He was too busy, man! 300 people a day! Besides, the old rusty one worked just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

-- Supernatural Man (asd...), November 4th, 2004.

taught the incas everything they know, man.

I believe because it happened several hundred times over. He pulled tumors out of people's nutsack using a dirty knife. Do I need to know how he did that? Or isn't it enough just to know that he did that? Is the alternative believing that he had a sleight of hand trick in which he secretly had a bunch of tumors up his sleeve?

Chariot of the Gods is crap. I don't know who taught the Incas, but I suppose it could be aliens.

I think it's cool that they found ancient carvings of corn in Asia, though. Corn was a new discovery that came with the discovery of America. I suppose there could have been an Asian kind of corn that just died out over time.

I have a knife to stab you!

The funny thing is nobody here has even looked at PSI research, let alone an actual research paper or experimental data on the topic and carefully analyzed it. And certainly nobody here has carefully analyzed all the experimental data as a whole.

There are a handful of books on the subject and the only one here mentioned is Psi Wars, which nobody has read obviously.

My socks get smelly.

"Jaunty, and HOW DOES IT WORK? What is the empirical evidence for the placebo effect? It is invisible aside from the result, correct?

The funny thing is nobody here has even looked at PSI research, let alone an actual research paper or experimental data on the topic and carefully analyzed it. And certainly nobody here has carefully analyzed all the experimental data as a whole.

There are a handful of books on the subject and the only one here mentioned is Psi Wars, which nobody has read obviously."

you should go away and read about the placebo effect.

Posting pics of trolls doesn't do say for Giro, either.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:BFtCHuMO390J:www.speedqueen.com/vend/images/big_gold_medal.jpg

You should go away and read about PSI research.

http://www.kathleengiordano.com/ilxdebate.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

The true-believer syndrome is a term coined by the reformed psychic fraud M. Lamar Keene to refer to an irrational belief in the paranormal. Skeptics see this as a form of self-deception caused by wishful thinking in which a believer continues to accept paranormal explanations for phenomena or events, or denies the relevance of scientific findings, even after the believer has been confronted with abundant evidence that the phenomena or events have natural causes. The term is mainly used by skeptics in the debate over the existence of certain sorts of paranormal phenomena and the persistence of belief in these phenomena.

For example, skeptics generally agree there is sufficient proof to conclude that the alleged miracles of Uri Geller, Sathya Sai Baba and Jim Jones are or were false; they therefore have often reasoned that believers who have been given the extant evidence of fraud in these cases, and yet continue to believe in these men, are described by this condition. Some ex-followers of Sathya Sai Baba accept this syndrome as an explanation of what has happened to them.[1] (http://www.saiguru.net/english/sai_org/14oclery.htm), [2] (http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/engels/articles/p_holbach/eng/trueb_e.htm?FACTNet)

Robert T. Carroll, the webmaster of the skeptic's dictionary, sees some similarity with a cognitive disorder. However, this syndrome is not used in the scientific literature, has not been included in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and no clinical evidence has been provided for its links with demonstrable cognitive impairment or psychopathology.

The true-believer syndrome seems similar in many ways to belief processes identified by Thomas Kuhn in his study on the sociology of science, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Kuhn demonstrated that scientists can hold onto beliefs in scientific theories despite overwhelming prevailing counter-evidence, and suggested that social forces, as much as ones purely concerned with rationality, are a strong influence on the beliefs we hold. This is an area studied by the sociology of knowledge where the social function of paranormal beliefs has been a focus of research.

The term was not coined by mainstream psychologists nor is it used by them and hence the term could be classified as popular psychology. Though unlike many concepts in popular psychology, there is some empirical proof for its existence.

http://www.kathleengiordano.com/ilxdebate.jpg

http://www.creativelightworldwide.com/pages/buyers/featurefilm/superguy/images/superguy-main.jpg +
http://www.sirbacon.org/graphics/arigo.jpg +
http://www.monalisa-prod.com/vi/images/catalogue/science/traqueurs/fantomes03.jpg +
http://www.journals.apa.org/prevention/volume1/pre0010002afig2a.gif =
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:xr1aLypy54YJ:www.eso.org/seaspace/img/superprize.gif
http://www.uneedaenterprises.com/ilxdebate.jpg

This thread is hilarious! Wow!

Well, at Sébastian's request, I dug up an old thread about Randi (this appears to be the only one), to say he's a carny and the Randi prize is a publicity stunt by a has-been pseudo-skeptic flim-flam. If you are clearly a fraud, Randi will be glad to "test" you. But, for those with the remotest possibility of being able to provide evidence of "paranormal activity," Randi has a history of lying and avoiding these cases entirely. Randi himself has even admitted it when confronted with the fact that his methods are dishonest. He gets away with it, of course, because his audience wants him to succeed and doesn't really care how he does it. If the prize ever was given away, most likely all the pseudo-skeptics in his audience would think he was slipping or in cahoots with the prize-winner.

See first two posts on this thread, if bored:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=50207&hl=

But, I wouldn't trust a guy with a rusty knife to stab me in the balls LOL.

Man, I love this guy for being such a ranty, insane little gnome man. The world of skeptics is just as weird as the world of the people they're railing against.

Randi vs Global Warming

Oh, it must be Christmas. As I mentioned in Wednesday's news briefs, James Randi has come under fire from all quarters this week, after posting his thoughts about global warming to his blog:

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An unfortunate fact is that scientists are just as human as the rest of us, in that they are strongly influenced by the need to be accepted, to kowtow to peer opinion, and to "belong" in the scientific community. Why do I find this "unfortunate"? Because the media and the hoi polloi increasingly depend upon and accept ideas or principles that are proclaimed loudly enough by academics who are often more driven by "politically correct" survival principles than by those given them by Galileo, Newton, Einstein, and Bohr. (Granted, it's reassuring that they're listening to academics at all -- but how to tell the competent from the incompetent?) Religious and other emotional convictions drive scientists, despite what they may think their motivations are.

...It's easy enough to believe that drought, floods, hurricanes, and earthquakes are signs of a coming catastrophe from global warming, but these are normal variations of any climate that we -- and other forms of life -- have survived. Earth has undergone many serious changes in climate, from the Ice Ages to periods of heavily increased plant growth from their high levels of CO2, yet the biosphere has survived. We're adaptable, stubborn, and persistent -- and we have what other life forms don't have: we can manipulate our environment. Show me an Inuit who can survive in his habitat without warm clothing... Humans will continue to infest Earth because we're smart.

In my amateur opinion, more attention to disease control, better hygienic conditions for food production and clean water supplies, as well as controlling the filth that we breathe from fossil fuel use, are problems that should distract us from fretting about baking in Global Warming.
-----

Given that Randi's skeptical peers and scientific admirers have spent the last couple of months attacking 'Global Warming Deniers', Randi found himself in the unlikely spot of being attacked for his 'pseudo-scientific' opinion piece. Blog posts decrying Randi's statement appeared quickly on Pharyngula, The Quackometer, Cosmic Variance, Greg Laden's Blog and Respectful Insolence. Even more vicious were the comments threads (lead, as it would be expected, by more than 500 Pharyngula comments) in which it was suggested that Randi was suffering from dementia and so on (although you'd have to say there may have been some karmic retribution for Randi in the meanness of it all...with friends like those, who needs 'woo-woo' enemies!) And, in a wonderful bit of timing, Randi managed to post his piece on the same day that a fund-raising drive for the James Randi Educational Foundation kicked into gear. Oops.

The back-pedaling was swift - the next day, Randi posted a new statement, "I'm Not 'Denying' Anything" (which P.Z. Myers labeled a 'not-pology', leading to some fun exchanges between Myers' minions and Randi's followers in comments threads.) And then the back-patting, with plenty of 'skeptics' saying that the criticism of Randi showed how healthy the modern skeptical movement is.

But this is nonsense. Randi took a position which was diametrically opposed to the current scientific consensus, and furthermore one that was absolutely contrary to the argument being put forth on a regular basis by other skeptics such as Phil Plait and P.Z. Myers. There was no other option for them but to criticise Randi – it was either that or be hypocrites. What would be a better test of the health of modern skepticism is if other skeptics pulled Randi up for speaking nonsense about more fringe topics. Which he does on a regular basis. And the silence is deafening. The real truth of modern skepticism as a dogmatic faith is revealed in those particular moments.

In the comments threads, many people seemed shocked that their great beacon of truth was spreading misinformation. But the only reason was because Randi took on a topic which didn't allow his sheeple to nod their head in agreement. Randi often posts rubbish and misinformation on his blog - I've criticised him before in the comments section to his blog (asking for references for dubious claims etc) only to be attacked by other 'skeptics'. For instance, as I mentioned recently, Randi once attacked parapsychologist Dr Dean Radin by saying that he had recently moved into researching presentiment after his other research had failed - in truth, Radin has been publishing successful results on presentiment for more than a decade, in addition to his other research. On another occasion with which I was personally involved, Randi deliberately misled his readers to suit his own personal ends. Randi also often states his dislike (or at least distrust) of the 'ivory tower' of academia, perhaps a result of his own lack of education.

But if 'skeptics' would like to dismiss what I say because it refers to fringe ideas, it should be asked why this GW statement caused such uproar, when Randi has posted scary social-Darwinism rants such as the following (regarding the 'beneficial' effects of drug legalisation on addicts) which perhaps deserved far more criticism:

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Those individuals who were stupid enough to rush into the arms of the mythical houris and/or Adonis's they would expect to greet them, would simply do so and die - by whatever chemical or biological fate would overcome them...the principle of Survival of the Fittest would draconically prove itself for a couple of years, after which Natural Selection would weed out those for whom there is no hope except through our forbearance, and I'm very, very, weary of supporting these losers with my tax dollars.

...Any weeping and wailing over the Poor Little Kids who would perish by immediately gobbling down pills and injecting poison, is summoning up crocodile tears, in my opinion. They would - and presently do - mature into grown-up idiots, and Darwin would be appalled that his lessons were ignored.
-----

So says the world's premiere defender of reason.

Much props to Randi, but I'd be major bummed to find out he was a Libertarian.

Mr. Randi has apparently just outed himself on his site (er, as gay, not as a fake psychic).

Hahah I was about to say.

amazing

What a weird story...

Jailed Plantation mystery artist reveals true identity in federal court

Jailed mystery artist Jose Alvarez and his longtime companion, magician and professional skeptic James "The Amazing" Randi, revealed Alvarez's true identity to a federal judge Friday so the artist could be released on a million-dollar bond after six weeks of incarceration.

For 24 years, Deyvi Pena used the name, date of birth and Social Security number of a New York man to travel the world on a United States passport first issued to him in 1987. During that time as Alvarez, he became a celebrated artist whose works have hung in exhibitions in New York, Miami and San Francisco.

Pena was arrested Sept. 8 at Randi's Plantation home under the name "John Doe" and charged with passport fraud and identity theft. A Sun Sentinel investigation revealed Pena's true identity earlier this week. The newspaper obtained the immigration visa he used in March 1984 to come to the United States from his native Venezuela to attend the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale.

Pena, 49, and Randi, 83, have remained high-profile figures in the world of skepticism for decades, and Randi is famous around the world for debunking people who profess to have paranormal powers. He runs the James Randi Educational Foundation dedicated to skepticism.

The deal to get Pena — whose full name is Deyvi Orangel Pena Arteaga — out on bond was worked out at the last minute Thursday night by Assistant U.S. Attorney Bertha Mitrani and Pena's defense attorney, Susan Dmitrovsky.

U.S. Magistrate Barry Seltzer asked the attorneys if there was any paperwork — a passport or travel visas — to show Pena was who he said he was.

"Do we have anything to confirm this his true identity?" the judge asked. "I can't release a defendant unless I have some idea who he is."

Mitrani said she and the federal agents working on the case had not had time to check for immigration records, but that she was comfortable Pena was his actual identity and that he would not try to flee the country if released on bond.

"We are going to verify and vet the information he gave us," Mitrani told the judge.

The judge was satisfied only after hearing Pena and Randi testify under oath. Randi told the judge he had seen Pena's Venezuelan passport years ago. Pena said he used the fraudulent U.S. passport to travel Europe.

Seltzer set two bonds for Pena: One is a $1 million personal surety bond guaranteed by him and Randi, and the other is a cash bond of $50,000. Pena was released a few hours after the hearing, still wearing tan jail scrubs. He will wear an electronic monitor and be under house arrest.

Even with the disclosure of Pena's identity, another mystery persists. Neither he nor Randi disclosed why Pena had stolen someone else's identity.

"The government and the public will know how all this happened and snowballed," Dmitrovsky said after the hearing. "That's all going to be revealed. It's a very compelling story.

Hope nobody takes up Randi's million dollar challenge anytime soon.

good article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/magazine/the-unbelievable-skepticism-of-the-amazing-randi.html