Conceptual art

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classik or dud

anthony, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i want a gallery full of every thread printed on that old-school paper with the holes up the sides.

ethan, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey, Anthony... weren't we supposed to meet up today or somethin'?

Brian MacDonald, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

depends enitrely on the work in question and how it influences me. However on past experience it seemd less likely to make an impact on me that a photograph, painting or sculpture.

Ed, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yummy. Conceptual art is anything that makes you think, 'damn! wish i'd had that funny idea first!'

I am loving, loving, loving the great big snit being held in honour of the Turner Prize nominee Martin Creed. I think Marin Creed *rocks*. A lot of the art critics are failed painters eg. Adrian Searle.This affects their written output; knowledge of this background is essential in deconstructing the agenda they bring to the public in print.

suzy, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Anyone see the "Faking It" on conceptual art. Most instructive.

Pete, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Creed OH MY GOD! How fcuking BORING can you get! It's not at all interesting, provokes NO thought at all in my mind apart from "ah perhaps one day I shall change a lightbulb, good job I have some then" - a THORT which is so dull it in TURN proceeds to bore me even more, DULL DULL DULL DULL DULL DULL DULL DULL STUPID! It's not even "an affront to art", just so bloody dull! Oh my. Go on, someone use some long words to tell me it isn't. I won't read them cos they will be BORING.

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

A LIGHT GOING ON AND OFF IS NOT A FUNNY IDEA!!! Heavens Suzy!!! Do you sit at home flicking lights on and off and giggling?! Ooohhhh my, I know you know lots of "famous artists" but I also know lots of ART STUDENTS and it gets TIRED!

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sarah, don't be a poop. This is a brilliant concept with which I can rationalize the growing pile of unwashed dishes in my sink. See here mummy, you plebe, it's not a "mess". It's conceptual art!

Actually I'm totally lying. The day my mother comes into my apt to complain about my unwashed dishes will also be the day that I have grown wings to fly into the sun.

Kim, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oops, sorry! Maybe I could justify the mess in my bedroom by calling it art... a statement which sounds so boring (see above!).. bloody hell. Am considering a trawl round an art gallery tonight to tell me that not EVERYTHING is so damn mediocre.

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Actually there's this thing in the AGO (I have forgotten who by) that sticks out in my mind. It's 365 postcards mailed daily, and postmarked with various times of the morning, addressed back to himself.

Kim, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm thinking maybe a Friday night trip round Tate Modern. (Coo I'm exciting eh)? If anything I can go and sit in the room at the top. Wuvvly (and also near BAR).

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sarah = Stuckist?

chris, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Suzy is right in that the reaction to the Creed piece is ace. But this is not because the Creed piece is great and the dissers are wrong. The reaction is ace in and of itself, they could be reacting to a masterpiece and it would still be ace. In fact the reaction erases the original piece - and is handy fuel for my long standing contention that the only point of art is to provide material for criticism. Can the reaction be considered Creed's actual 'artwork' here? He would probably consider that banal but hey, it's entertaining. (He should make a collage a la Public Enemy's "Incident At 66.6 FM".)

Tom, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

artist = lightswitch >>> audience = light

mark s, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

However Mark, do you actually find that interesting? SURELY it gets better than THAT? Tom and the audience reaction being art thing is cool, interesting, sure but THERE ARE BETTER REACTIONS and things to be reacted TO then just lazy rip-off art student wankery that it would be nice to get out of yr system at say TWENTY? How old is Mr Creed anyway?

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

18 :P

mark s, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Really? Bwahaha!

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i lied: U-O-me the turner prize 2001

mark s, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Now that's art!! I'll make you a turner prize out of some teabags. Sound good? Not only is it art but you can make tea and THEN put teabags on yr eyes in a wuvvly detox routine!

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm always impressed with people who get mega-annoyed by art (Sarah, I'm impressed) because to me, art is just like a funny game. Jeez, I wish I could CARE about it, I'm interested and everything but only to the point of going "Oh, that's pretty cool" or "Yuck! Don't like that!"

jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

My cock is conceptual art. React to THAT.

Mark C, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

*fetches the pumpkin and places it at crotch level*

*looks blank*

*RUNS AWAY*!!!

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

*switches off light*

(see, it's AMBIGUOUS!?¡¿)

mark s, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like art without concepts. Paintings of fields. Photographs of families. Geometric shapes.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think most people's problem with conceptual art is that it has nothing to do with aesthetics. People have a hard time accepting the idea that you can have an idea divorced from any kind of craftsmanship.

tim, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is The Concept by Teenage Fanclub conceptual art. If it is then I don't like the way conceptual art rips off the status quo.

Pete, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

but Pete if they name check their source does that not make it more valid as a pastiche? or something

chris, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not sure, it makes it a bit like someone telling you a joke and then telling you that it is funny when you don't laff. Perhaps that is the problem I have with much conceptual art. It is like The Concept in that there is only one idea involved. Fine when you have thatidea but with much of it there is so little else to consider that once the moment has passed it has nothing left to offer. Nothing wrong with that per se - but makes it the art equivalent of a band whose records all sound pretty much alike.

Which brings us back to the Quo.

Pete, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

There's more to Martin Creed than a light going on and off. He does records, sculpture, neon stuff, etc. You should really check the rest out before you judge him on that. And I know for a fact he's going for the wind-up at the Tate.

AS I SAID BEFORE conceptual art is all about having the quirky idea first. You either like the idea or you don't. If I sat home flicking my switches and calling it art NOW, it wouldn't be art but if I had done so and called it art BEFORE Creed, it would. Think of it like a nice big game of TAG.

suzy, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

And I know for a fact he's going for the wind-up at the Tate.

That must be clever of him. A real "TITS UP!" to the WORLD OF ART eh? He must be congratulating himself cos let's face it, no-one else is.

I don't understand your last point. Art is having an original thought first. So your invention of the word "gaydar" would be "art" if you had called it "art".

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gaydar = word with confirmed existance of at least 15 years, and occasional appearances on national television. Maybe the UK is just behind the times here.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

If you call Suzy, Suzy will confirm she invented it in the states.

Sarah, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Look, Sarah, don't attack me for liking Martin Creed's work just because you don't like it or don't get it. I mean, I don't think you're stupid because of this, right? Turner Prizes are not just judged on what's in the Tate for the exhibition *you* see but a number of exhibitions elsewhere in the world that the panel of judges have seen, like the Mike Nelson one in Venice or the Richard Billingham one in the Ikon Gallery. It even says what exhibitions these are on the intro cards by each artists' display in the gallery.

My initial post was about having some idea about the agenda his critics bring to the table, ie. being resentful painters (stand up Adrian Searle. At any rate the winner is either Isaac Julien or Mike Nelson this year - neither of whom make conceptual art.

suzy, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Didn't Duchamp put all this debate to bed a hundred years ago?

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

My conceptual art ideas:

An otherwise clean room, with a small pile of freshly cut glass (replaced each morning). Title: Nothing's Perfect
A Severed foot on top of a television (showing a video of a guy playing guitar, badly, on a loop). Title: We don't need them anymore
A photo display of various plugholes. Title: Where does it all go?

Send me cash!

james, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

FWIW, I think Sarah's suggestion that some conceptual art can appear self-congratulatory from the outside makes some sense. On another thread Anthony wondered whether and why it might seem 'alienating', but I think 'insular' might be more apt. Because it's so detached from received ideas about aesthetics and craft it can often seem to depend on being on the inside of certain intertextual and critical discourses to make sense, which is fine. But that's no reason why anyone else would respond to it, and because (as Tom suggested) in some way it kind of depends on or is partly constitued by an (anticipated or actual) response (would you say that was right, Suzy?) there can be a kind of absence or irritation.

A bit like Pete said, I sometimes wonder if half the problem is that the 'quirky idea' or concept or whatever buckles under the weight of its execution. Y'know, if you reeled it out in a conversation or on the kitchen table (say, two plums and a banana, but then I like SArah Lucas cos she is rude and funny in way that by-passes my reflexivity; I have no idea what the critical consensus is on her)--> ha ha! very good! - but if you take 6 months, a lot of effort and a big room to realise your concept it starts to look kind of slight.

Ellie, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

grass even, but glass would be better!

james, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sarah Lucas is asked to be on the list for the Turner Prize every year and declines politely (they asked, this year, Lucas and the Chapmans and both said no). She used to be someone I thought had slight ideas but now she has a METIER and my respect. She is also better-paid than Tracey Emin but shuts up about it.

suzy, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sorry Brian, i mentioned on the momus thread , David has a slew of stuff to do , hes managed to make this a working holiday so im stuck in van, i feel really bad !

anthony, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah, doesn't anyone like my conceptual art ideas? I feel like Wile E Coyote sometimes! Oh well, back to the drawing board! :)

james, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

q: what is art?
a: it's this thing

doesn't have to be original: just has to be stuff = we all do it all the time

mark s, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

doesn't have to be original: just has to be stuff = we all do it all the time

But isn't Martin Creed's point kind of that it doesn't even have to be stuff?

jamesmichaelward, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

A light turning on and off at fixed intervals seems pretty stufflike to me.

RickyT, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Some Light and then some Not Light doesn't strike me as particularly stufflike (I can't imagine someone saying "I love his photons")

jamesmichaelward, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The conceptual art world reminds me a bit of Julie Burchill.

Nick, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hmm, bloated, self-regarding and constantly poking fun at Tony Parsons? That exhibition last year of sculptures of Parsons made of bogeys was masterful I must say.

Pete, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

There's this hotel somewhere that hosts diff artists' works in each room for one weekend out of each year. I think it's in New York (maybe someone here knows of it?) ANYWAY the patrons often have the damndest time figuring out what's art or not. 1) A site-specific piece simply arranges the contents of a hotel room to recall a torrid evening. The discreet wall-plaque probably included words like "desire" and "memory". A maid of course came in and tidied it all up, enraging the artist. 2) A security guard's half-finished game of cards is found on table in a hallway during guard's lunch break. A crowd gathers and begins discussing its relevance. These stories of course = arg in FAVOR of conceptual art.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Obviously I don't "get" conceptual art then. Surely I've heard variations on that story many a time. Proving how mediocre art critics can be gets applause from NO-ONE! It's pointless apart from some little inside world and I would have thought if ART was going to get anywhere halfway decent it would AT LEAST try to take the REAL WORLD into account! Focusing yr art towards having a little giggle at the Turner Prize YAWN! An artist getting annoyed at a maid for DOING HER JOB! Cnut!!! All so DAMN FEEBLE. Geez, it's THIS type of thing which makes me crave for MATHS. Even bloody SCIENCE!

I am going to go home and practise LONG DIVISION now.

, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

(da da da DURRR) ect ect oh Amy Linton no-one can quite tell if you are gay or nay, I think nay which is rather sad as for you I am willing to "do gay" as they say in Finsbury Park(ay).....

Sarah, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sarah it's you and Sterling in the freestyle competition!

Tracer Hand, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like paintings. Don't really get concept art. Not against it.

james, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I enjoy conceptual more, nearly always, than figurative or other styles. I like these fun, difficult or thoughtful ideas. A lot of it is rubbish but a lot of anything is rubbish. I've got off on Creed before as well as Lucas, Hurst and all the usual suspects - I always get canned by my friends for loving Emin. But I'd just much rather have a provocative something pushed into me than a pleasant, subtle, realistic portrait - that's craftsmanship IMO not art.

The Hockney debunk of the acclaimed period of painting, showing how they caught the light with mirrors and projectors was excellent. If a huge period as venerated as that can be brought down to a trick of the light, then current debate over the value of conceptual art is nothing.

I think people should listen to / read David Lee in the London art world, he's pretty much the only person talking sense, although Sewell sometimes strikes a chord. The controlling group of people is even more insidious than the music industry because it's much smaller, less competitive (closer to cartelism) and far more hidden.

chris, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

An artist getting annoyed at a maid for DOING HER JOB

I know!! Conceptual art so good that it enrages its own creator!

Tracer Hand, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think what I meant by the above is that sometimes an artwork, because of its FAILURE to be effective in the agenda it appears to possess, effects other meanings/realizations outside that framework. The artist gets mad that this philistine maid destroyed her precious bedsheet arrangment etc and MUST be somewhat thinking "i do not exist except in this rarified context created only by mutual understanding" or even just "i R crap".

my friend R. just returned from Tokyo, obsessed with decadence and evil futuropolis thorts, so I gave him "Almost Transparent Blue" a ridiculously ripe account of some (possibly totally imaginary) Japanese underbelly, ultimately just a terrible book that leaves you bored from the excitement. I'm hoping that the book weans him from his obsession by virtue of its sheer badness.

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 10 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

three years pass...
ihttp://www.davidshrigley.com/draw_htmpgs/why_we_got_sack/1_artists.html

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Bugger.

http://www.davidshrigley.com/images/drawings/why_we_got_sack/1_artists.jpg

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 21:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I believe Mr. Harmony Korine has done the bottom one

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I believe Mr Shrigley is deliberately skitting Mr Korine on the bottom one.

I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 01:16 (eighteen years ago) link

shrigley was / will be one of the photographers on that digital britain thing that has been / will be on one of the bbc channels recently / soon.

ah, august 18th. episode 4 the midlands.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/features/digital-picture-britain.shtml

koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 07:45 (eighteen years ago) link

eighteen years pass...

Danish artist told to repay museum €67,000 after turning in blank canvasses
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66847139

A Danish artist has been ordered to return nearly 500,000 kroner (€67,000) to a museum after he supplied it with two blank canvasses for a project he named "Take the Money and Run". The Kunsten Museum in Aalborg had intended for Jens Haaning to embed the banknotes two pieces of art in 2021.
Instead, he gave it blank canvasses and then told dr.dk: "The work is that I have taken their money." A court has now ordered him to return the cash - but keep some for expenses. The art project was intended as a statement on salaries in Denmark and Austria.

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 18 September 2023 17:02 (six days ago) link

“The work is that I have taken their money."

brimstead, Monday, 18 September 2023 17:26 (six days ago) link

Any true conceptual artist would be satisfied that the full beauty of their concept was delivered to their audience where it will dwell forever inviolable. The eventual fate of the money was only incidental to the artistic inspiration, in that it was always going to disappear back into circulation anyway.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 18 September 2023 17:33 (six days ago) link

"It has been good for my work, but it also puts me in an unmanageable situation where I don't really know what to do."

... what was he expecting?

jmm, Monday, 18 September 2023 17:34 (six days ago) link

The Kunsten Museum in Aalborg had intended for Jens Haaning to embed the banknotes two pieces of art in 2021.

huh?

budo jeru, Monday, 18 September 2023 19:29 (six days ago) link


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