Sitcom Hell

I'm trying to think of American comedies where the lead character isn't portrayed as 'hero' and one to aspire to sympathise with or aspire to in some way.* Even when Homer is being a jerk (99% of the time) they'll have him do a little speech that wins everyone around him over, and all is forgiven. Presumably people really do love Raymond at the end of the day too. In the case of The Office, the US stick fairly well to the original by maintaining Tim as the 'hero'.

*I never saw Sanford & Son but if it was that much like Steptoe then I guess it might be a good example?

Eh...but what about the end of The Office, when we DO start to feel sorry for Brent, and glad that he gets himself a date at the end?

After two serieses and a Christmas Special, sure. We are happy because he's straightened himself out and there's hope that he will one day become a humbler, better person than the tyrannous faux-empowered assclown that he was.

Me neither. I'd like to see it actually.

No, it isn't. It's a sitcom. Therefore firmly in this domain. Are we just comparing to Scrubs because it's in a hospital? Let's compare Cheers to Early Doors or Time Gentlemen Please while we're at it, shall we?

Nighty Night - blackly black comedy. No likeable characters, really.

Green Green Grass - Boycie and Marlene leave Peckham to join the landed gentry. Hilarity does not ensure.

TPOLAAPOC - still fits the Friends model more than your definition of the Brit model, bunch of friends hang out, do stuff, play it for laughs. Not aspirational, no, but not exactly hoho let's mock the poor and afflicted either (I've only seen it a couple of times, mind, but it seems to be written from a point of affection, not mocking)

Point being, all British sitcoms cannot be posted into your convenient little Britcom pigeonhole.

Steve, no-one aspires to be CYE's Larry David, do they?

To add, we have seen Brent be broken and then built back up again but only because he had to fail to get there. With Roseanne we are pleased because she won the lottery (or whatever) and can now afford to live like all the other normal sitcom characters.

No, it isn't. It's a sitcom. Therefore firmly in this domain. Are we just comparing to Scrubs because it's in a hospital? Let's compare Cheers to Early Doors or Time Gentlemen Please while we're at it, shall we?

Go on then, same rules apply. Cheers did come before the pre-mid 90s Friends boom though. And as we said before, Cheers has a pretty diverse range of urbanites drinking there whereas Time Gentlemen Please and Early Doors are the epitome of what I've been talking about.

Green Green Grass - Boycie and Marlene leave Peckham to join the landed gentry. Hilarity does not ensure.

I have seen this and it was genuinely the worst thing I've ever seen on TV in my life.

TPOLAAPOC - still fits the Friends model more than your definition of the Brit model, bunch of friends hang out, do stuff, play it for laughs. Not aspirational, no, but not exactly hoho let's mock the poor and afflicted either (I've only seen it a couple of times, mind, but it seems to be written from a point of affection, not mocking)

Fair enough. What's interesting though is that the first series of this was written by a 19 year old girl who would have grown up with things like Friends. Later serieses are pooled, just like US sitcoms.

Green Wing is two thirds sitcom and one third sketchshow.

How on Earth is Frasier more of a cock than Brent?? His pompousness is the only bugbear surely?

I thought everyone was outraged and bitterly disappointed when she won the lottery? As again it seemed a betrayal of the show's 'ethos'? Although the show had already started to suck before that point...

Most recently, My Name is Earl. Also: Malcom in the Middle, where being poor was the damn centerpiece of the show. And Arrested Development, while not wildly successful, did feature main characters you were intended to not be sympathetic towards--the ONLY sympathetic character was George Michael, the son of the supposed "hero."

I remember the episode where the Dad buys a PORSCHE.

No way, I totally liked and sympathised with the main character.

Careful now, saying things like this apparently means you "don't get comedy" according to fans of the show. Agree with you here, but I think the general view of CYE is that it sticks to Stevem's description of "everyone else is dumb except me". Poor Larry David with all his money and success, he's just misunderstood. Imagine recasting his character as some top British TV exec - guffaws ensue? Perhaps not unless he is turned into a fat bungling fuckwit who twats up every job he does by being a genuine plonker.

Malcolm In The Middle is NOT supposed to be poor what the frig man!

-- Konal Doddz (stevem7...), May 30th, 2006 12:42 PM. (blueski) (later) (link)

Um, is that the only episode you watched? 'Cause the poor thing is pretty obvious. The mom works in a Rite-Aid clone, for Chrissakes.

And Michael was better than the rest of his family, but not by much. He was still stubborn and fairly arrogant and a pretty bad father.

Have you ever WATCHED the show? WTF

Um didn't you say upthread you've never watched Arrested Development?

Oh, doglatinpaws.

Much as you can't say "all British/American comedy is like this because I haven't seen lots of it, and will just mention the ones that fit into my argument and hope no-one notices", you also can't use "but it's *alternative* therefore it doesn't count anyway" as a get-out clause either.

I was being sarcastic with the "compare Time Gentlemen Please" to "Cheers". They bear no resemblence to each other bar (pardon the pun) their setting. Same goes with Scrubs and Green Wing.

the comedy does come from the fact he and his family are caricatures of a certain type of family - it's actually a very British thing to do in fact rather than relying on witty one-liners and comebacks for comedy.

Couple this with the "no sitcoms really about poor Americans (except the ones we've already told you about which don't count because you've never seen them)" and I'll just point out to you there's a whole thread on New Answers just now about Married With Children. (which, incidentally, was remade for a British audience and was shite, despite being one of your typical British sitcoms.

You are supposed to identify with Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, but you're not supposed to like them. If you see the shows through the prism of class, you completely misunderstand them - they are morality plays.

Frasier's Dad is absolutely not the only characeter audience members are meant to identify with

dog latin is totally off the money as to the actual situation of characters in US vs UK coms, but he does somewhat accurately identify a difference in attitudes sold to the different national audiences - Americans more often want to give reality the promising sheen of upward mobility (thus the at least (but not complete) semi-fantasy of Friends), or a light treatment of the ironies of reality, while Britons more often reward a flatter, more malcontented, pessimistic vibe.

You could say that US comedy is about people making a pigs ear of a good situation while Brticom is about people trying earnestly to make the best out of a bad one.

perhaps, but I can easily think of Brit contra examples. As Time Goes By, in many respects. Even Fawlty Towers.

I've seen My Name Is Earl a few times, and I think he won the lottery but then got hit by a car and lost the winning ticket, so he never received the money. So he's not rich at all, just into karma. I might be wrong about this, though, as I don't pay much attention.

If you look at it that way, the Modern World is Archie Bunker's hell in "All in the Family." He's definitely the protagonist, even if he's neither a hero nor an anti-hero. He's clearly an unsympathetic character, usually wrong about everything, but it's clearly his hell.

That would also interestingly make "Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C." Sgt. Carter's hell, as well as making "Dennis the Menace" Mr. Mitchell's hell. "Mary Tyler Moore" is Lou Grant's hell. I'd prefer to look at it that way.

"Family Ties" would be Jennifer's (Tina Yothers) hell. Hippy parents, Reaganite brother, Valley-girl sister. Everything is so clear now. Not that it was particlarly funny as much as "endearing."

Best of all, "The Brady Bunch" is now re-situated as Alice's hell. Maybe it's her salvation, having a family (cf ep where she quits because of the kids), but as far as that goes it's pretty bleak. She's the only funny character in the show, so QED or whatever.

The inverse might be protagonists who are knowing-but-often-removed observers of other people's hell(s). "Seinfeld," for one, particularly that ep where Elaine and George switch fates, but Jerry remains "Even Steven." "The Andy Griffith Show," "The Cosby Show," probably most shows named after the lead actor fall into this category. Except "Newhart." It's his hell.

King of Queens, That 70s Show, American Dad...

and loads of brit ones about the upper middle class (Good life, EDC, Butteflies) and the wealthy (Yes Minister, To the manor born). this thread is ridiculous.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Gimmeabreak.jpg