Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

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Murderous plastic harridan 'author' of committee-written books, or Heroine of 1990s and millennial Queen of NYC?

And where's the $60 she borrowed off me?

the pinefox, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Classic but not because of any heroine bullshit or queen of NYC crap (she isn't, we all hate her). Classic like Giuliani: because she's psycho.

Ally, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I wonder if Hillary to you is anything like Ken to us?

No, I think Hillary for me = Ken for me, + looks.

the pinefox, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think her n her husband are a couple of elitist crooks. Any lil rant I could go into right now, lacking the proper stats n figures to back it up properly, would pale in comparison to you all just doing the right thing and buying or checking out No One Left To Lie To by Christopher Hitchens, which does the job so most adequately. Thank you.

Chris Cook, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think she will work towards mostly liberal and rational goals but may end up as mired in beurocratic(sp) politics as all the other ham- heads.

Mike Hanle y, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I like her because she made a bunch of old guys who should be dead mad. I'm into that.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

If Greil Marcus had written NOTHING ELSE, I would love him for this (sadly all-too accurate) sideswipe put-down: "as self- regarding as an obituary by Christopher Hitchens". Hitchens' return shot — attack- dog review of Double Trouble — was a disgrace, a deeply intellectually dishonest piece of work.

Ten years ago, CH was a pretty great writer. Five years ago, patchily great. Now — wonky on the BOUZE and courted at all the Right Sirees Dahling — he pisses away his gifts swapping undeserved mutual smarm with M.Amis, S.Rushdie and J.Fenton.

Can he have fucked up the Assault on Mt Kissinger? If he gets that right, I shall — I THINK I shall — forgive him his evermore desperately footling prose so-called style.

Hillary Clinton: is the Co*rtney L*ve of democratic reform politics. Except IT TAKES A VILLAGE is crap, and PRETTY ON THE INSIDE isn't.

mark s, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Mark S: I love the GM line, and I think I back you on Hitchens. BUT I don't know whether your C Love comparison is a compliment or an insult.

the pinefox, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Pinefox: nor do I. That's why I said it, perhaps.

"Sirees" = "soirees" — only I prefer "Sirees". It adds a mad Texa Panhandle flavour. Honour the hidden intention.

mark s, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

dud for standing by bill - shouloda bitch slapped him right outta the oval office - though, could be classic if she ever decides to come oout.

Geoff, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

During the '96 presidential campaign at some point one of the networks showed an old picture of Bill and Hillary standing in the hallway of an unfinished house in work jeans, laughing - Hil with long dark hair swept up in a bandana, Bill with a touch of sideburn. They've - and now Hillary more than ever - become such hoarse little speech-giving machines. With no political vision besides their own (poll-tested) personal whims, as far as I can tell.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I find hillary clinton very attractive, and would like to spend "quality time" w/her. Thus "classic"

xoxo

/<-R4/>-31337, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Ditto. What I have never understood is why he needed to have affairs when married to her. Thus Classic.

Raggett: "made a bunch of old guys who should be dead mad"... Took a while working through all the ways to parse this sentence.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm glad you approve. And if you don't, I don't care, so yah boo.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

November 5, 1959.

Went over to Lorraine’s house after school. She told me how her cousin Jim at Northwestern gets "high" by drinking cough syrup. We looked in her parents’ medicine chest, but we didn’t find any cough syrup. But there was a box of Sucrets. We didn’t know how many to take, so we each ate three.

I sat down and closed my eyes for fifteen minutes but nothing happened. So I decided to go to the kitchen and eat a banana. Then as I was getting up, the room suddenly started to spin real fast. The picture of Fabian on Lorraine’s wall looked right at me and winked. Then I got real dizzy. The walls were starting to collapse, so I fell on the floor and rolled myself into a ball. Lorraine was talking so fast that I couldn’t understand her. After a while I opened my eyes and the room was turning around slower and slower, like when you turn a record player off. Finally it stopped and I was able to catch my breath. I’ve never been SO SCARED in all my life. We’re taking some more tomorrow.

After this episode the girls went on a Sucrets jag that lasted until shortly after Christmas, when the local druggist got suspicious and refused to sell them any more. Hillary and Lorraine tried sniffing Elmer’s Glue, but it paled in comparison. They cast about for a substitute, testing and rejecting Vitamin C tablets, Carter’s Little Liver Pills, and St. Joseph’s Children’s Aspirin. The period of experimentation and disappointment lasted several months. Then Hillary found out about boys.

Hillary’s diary from this period reflects the anguish of a young girl cast adrift in a world she does not know or understand, bereft of the one thing that has given her life meaning. A typical entry reads:

December 20, 1961.

I’m bored. I wish it would snow. I want to move to Chicago. In Chicago you can walk into any store and get all the Sucrets you want. All the boys at school are yucky. I want to go to Chicago and meet a nice handsome boy and take Sucrets with him. My teachers assign too much homework.

the pinefox, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Further extracts from MR PINEFOX ENTERS THE ZONE to follow (I sincerely trust...)

mark s, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

A friend of mine was telling me today about how, when she was working in a convent in Kenya, one of the little boys she was looking after was called Hillary Clinton, that was his first name. She said that sometimes the people there really liked the sound of english words and would name children after them, so there were children with names like Pressurecooker and Birthcontrol.

Plaxico (I know, right?), Saturday, 21 March 2009 14:37 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

I was going to ask how people rated Hillary as Secretary of State but knowing that somewhere in Kenya is a young boy named Birthcontrol has distracted me somewhat

Wood shavings! Laughing out loud! (HI DERE), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 16:28 (ten years ago) link

slightly less obnoxious/obsequious than Condi

modern eunuch-like crooning (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 16:40 (ten years ago) link

eleven months pass...

No second term as SOS or presidential run

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/16/clinton-running-for-president/

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 17 March 2011 00:09 (nine years ago) link

I'm a bit surprised about no run for the nomination. Whatever happens in 2012, I thought she'd be in good position for '16. She'd be 69, same age as that old guy who won. I know a lot of people love her no matter what, and a lot of other people hate her no matter what, but I think I'm fairly representative of people who couldn't stand her through the '08 campaign but who've come around since then. (If she had run, I probably could have learned to not-stand-her all over again.)

clemenza, Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:04 (nine years ago) link

part of the problem

Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:05 (nine years ago) link

Me or Hillary? Let me guess--both.

clemenza, Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:06 (nine years ago) link

no; like me, you don't matter!

Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:10 (nine years ago) link

All right--pressure's off!

clemenza, Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:12 (nine years ago) link

do you think hillary would get significant support from former obama supporters who now think she'd have made a better president in the first place? (subquestion - does anyone think she would have?)

lex pretend, Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:25 (nine years ago) link

I think she would have ended up almost exactly like Obama tbh; they were always more similar than they were different.

ancient, but very sexy (DJP), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:26 (nine years ago) link

I think she would have got a fair amount of support from Obama '08 supporters because of the way she's conducted herself since she lost. (The three or four weeks where she slowly came to terms with having lost were surreal--remember them well.) If I explain any further, Morbius and other people will jump on, and this'll become another ridicule-Obama thread.

clemenza, Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:32 (nine years ago) link

I have no idea what kind of country will have left Obama's successor in 2012 (if he loses), let alone 2016, but I'm pretty sure I don't want HRC leading it.

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:34 (nine years ago) link

*Obama will have left his successor

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:34 (nine years ago) link

*jumps on clemenza*

kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:44 (nine years ago) link

in 2016 it will be called President of Thunderdome btw

Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:48 (nine years ago) link

she will run in '16

in my world of suggest bans (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 17 March 2011 15:52 (nine years ago) link

she will be 69 in 2016

buzza, Thursday, 17 March 2011 16:02 (nine years ago) link

will she still be "making change"?

Fuck bein' hard, Dr Morbz is complicated (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 March 2011 16:05 (nine years ago) link

two years pass...

The former U.S. secretary of state begins her Twitter bio with "Wife, mom."

Murder in the Rue McClanahan (jaymc), Monday, 10 June 2013 21:07 (six years ago) link

two years pass...

Well that's very kind, but I am doing what I want to do right now and I have no intention or any idea even of running again - 2011

reliably bad liar

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 April 2016 19:53 (four years ago) link

Hillary Clinton: is the Co*rtney L*ve of democratic reform politics. Except IT TAKES A VILLAGE is crap, and PRETTY ON THE INSIDE isn't.

― mark s, Wednesday, July 4, 2001 8:00 PM (14 years ago)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JYEe9GZbEVY/VvYaJnQLcsI/AAAAAAADCAg/wr3x9KLtTzs/s640/blogger-image--825882656.jpg

Mordy, Thursday, 14 April 2016 19:57 (four years ago) link

throngs of well-wishers begged her to run again and she stoically agreed to once again mount the rostrum and humbly offer her leadership to the nation -- this has been the storyline ever since George Washington

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 14 April 2016 19:58 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

fb friend (lefty, as in just left his Dem Party registration for indie):

"The most pertinent fact likely to be overlooked in this extraordinarily troubling report is the following: neither the Secretary nor her top aides consented to be interviewed by the Inspector General of the very department of government they had been entrusted with running."

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:09 (four years ago) link

A terrible attack on the only person that can possibly prevent the biggest threat to humanity since.....whatever the last thing was in american politics twonk circles

Daithi Bowsie (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:18 (four years ago) link

Nixon fans loved to say "They all did it."

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:27 (four years ago) link

The election thread is like a convention of mob lawyers this afternoon :)

Iago Galdston, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:31 (four years ago) link

each party has its lemmings. it's a beautiful thing.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:32 (four years ago) link

Oh its like a lemmin party alright

Daithi Bowsie (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:36 (four years ago) link

dr morbius sounding a lot like the sort of person who lives by the movie 'fight club'

wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 21:52 (four years ago) link

When life hands you lemmings, make lemmingaid.

putting the laughter in manslaughter (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 26 May 2016 11:29 (four years ago) link

omg deems

two months pass...

What do folks make of the Clinton Foundation stuff, and is there anything especially good to read on it? It continues to smell fishy to me even where many of their other "scandals" don't.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Thursday, 11 August 2016 14:53 (three years ago) link

Great point.

Bernie Bros say they want to fight the billionaire class but they're spending all morning attacking the only woman politician who's ever killed a billionaire. Remind me again what these people stand for? 🙄

— Google Millennium Challenge 2002 (شادي) (@shariaprelaw) January 21, 2020

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:37 (four months ago) link

good plan tbh

Tulsi put this statement in her lawsuit against Hilary Clinton in case she ends up suicided lmaooooo pic.twitter.com/eattGPbRNA

— lana del ray lee-yoda (@FailsonA) January 22, 2020

chapoquidditch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 23 January 2020 15:36 (four months ago) link

lmaoooo at your own joke is bad form

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 23 January 2020 15:58 (four months ago) link

ok, I got owned by fake news for a few solid minutes there

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 23 January 2020 16:03 (four months ago) link

in that case, rip tulsi's hyoid bone

chapoquidditch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 23 January 2020 16:06 (four months ago) link

hyoid polloi'd iirc

mark s, Thursday, 23 January 2020 16:12 (four months ago) link

three months pass...

https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/157739/flawed-fantasy-different-hillary-clinton?

Excellent review of a terrifying book.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:53 (one week ago) link

“Plunged inside” is a horrifying phrase.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:12 (one week ago) link

I knew what this revive was before clicking and I'd just like to say I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS

(so serious) (DJP), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:14 (one week ago) link

yeah i couldn't get beyond the headline, the subject matter is too radioactive

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:16 (one week ago) link

Can't help but be wary of exofiction as a subgenre.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:16 (one week ago) link

Wait, it doesn't seem to be called that in English. What's the equivalent?

pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:17 (one week ago) link

"Before the novel gets to its fork in history, there is a lot of self-consciously steamy sex."

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:21 (one week ago) link

xp: I'd go with "terrible bullshit"

(so serious) (DJP), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:22 (one week ago) link

I owned republicanerotica.com for a year and could never bring myself to do things like write about Ted Cruz plunging inside Ann Coulter. Apparently this author has a stronger stomach than I do.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:22 (one week ago) link

dude

(so serious) (DJP), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:22 (one week ago) link

ur welcome

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:23 (one week ago) link

I'm just imagining the papercuts

(so serious) (DJP), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:25 (one week ago) link

His fingers played across her back like the palest xylophone

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:26 (one week ago) link

Pomenitul: allohistory?

no new snail to snell (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:52 (one week ago) link

That ones comes close. In French, the term 'exofiction' (fictionalized biography) is an explicit callback to 'autofiction' (fictionalized autobiography), which doesn't have an exact English equivalent either.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:55 (one week ago) link

Oh, we just say "historical fiction" for things that could have happened, but are not being presented as documented fact. Or things that are "based on a true story" but feature invented dialogue and may not have unfolded in exactly the way depicted in the text.

Alternate or alternative history is a different genre - what if Lee had attacked here instead of there, what if FDR had stayed neutral, what if Oswald had come down with a cold, what if Wellington had eaten bad oysters, what if Trump had been smothered in infancy by a deranged babysitter.... (oh wait, that last was pure fantasy)

no new snail to snell (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:02 (one week ago) link

Exofiction is specifically biographical, which is why I think it applies to the novel under discussion, but it doesn't necessarily play with alternative histories. Perhaps 'counterfactual exofiction' would be a more precise designation.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:12 (one week ago) link

the term is "real person slash"

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 22:18 (one week ago) link

(or I guess just RPF in the case of the book

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 22:19 (one week ago) link

Thanks, we're getting closer. It seems more disparaging and 'lowbrow' than what exofiction typically covers in French, though. Like, I wouldn't think of describing Jean Echenoz's Ravel as real person slash.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 22:23 (one week ago) link

Curtis Sittenfeld is quite a good writer. I'd quite like to read this. Hillary looks very nice on the cover.

the pinefox, Thursday, 21 May 2020 09:09 (six days ago) link

plunge into the pages, pinefox

(so serious) (DJP), Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:04 (six days ago) link

i haven't read sittenfeld but this novel and the one about laura bush seem weird

treeship., Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:30 (six days ago) link

i'm skeptical but maybe great literature can come from this premise, who knows. hillary is an interesting kind of figure

treeship., Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:33 (six days ago) link

Looking FWD to pinefox's report already.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:55 (six days ago) link

I finished the Netflix documentary the other night. I had a habit of watching it late at night, so I'd drift and rewind a lot...As befits the subject, not sure what I thought. The saddest part was post-healthcare, where she looked lost. Watching election night 2016 still feels stunning.

clemenza, Thursday, 21 May 2020 12:15 (six days ago) link

It's fan fiction, surely. Incredibly ill advised, unaccountably published fan fiction about a real person.

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Saturday, 23 May 2020 13:02 (four days ago) link

should this book have been called “Nuvvieworld” y/n

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Saturday, 23 May 2020 13:08 (four days ago) link

the problem isn't fan fiction, it's very bad fan fiction

mark s, Saturday, 23 May 2020 13:52 (four days ago) link

Has anyone read the novel?

It's written by a writer who has written numerous quite successful novels and is often said to be quite good.

So until I read it I'll assume that it might be, in some ways, quite good.

And on a subject that I find interesting. (I started this thread in 2001 after all.)

the pinefox, Saturday, 23 May 2020 14:06 (four days ago) link

I think people here are judging the excerpts, which are not quite good

What fash heil is this? (wins), Saturday, 23 May 2020 14:30 (four days ago) link

plunge into the entire book wins

mark s, Saturday, 23 May 2020 14:33 (four days ago) link

Wow, imagine looking at the life of Hillary Clinton and thinking "if only she were free of Bill she could really have made something of herself"

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 15:56 (four days ago) link

I think that. not necessarily something good, but perhaps less terrible to some extent

no (Left), Saturday, 23 May 2020 16:06 (four days ago) link

But I don't think she'd have had a path to president.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 16:17 (four days ago) link

She would have been a Mayor of Chicago covering up police black sites.

Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 23 May 2020 16:19 (four days ago) link

too believable

no (Left), Saturday, 23 May 2020 16:45 (four days ago) link

She does have a lot of ambition. But I think "poor battered woman who made the mistake of hitching her wagon to that loser" is a very bizarre projection onto a person who very deliberately hitched her wagon to someone who was the definition of a winner and benefited greatly from it.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 16:48 (four days ago) link

She’d be President now if she had divorced Bill after winning her Senate seat.

santa clause four (suzy), Saturday, 23 May 2020 17:21 (four days ago) link

"winning" her senate seat

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 17:32 (four days ago) link

what did she lose the popular vote

j., Saturday, 23 May 2020 18:19 (four days ago) link

she moved to a state that hasn't had a republican senator since the 1970s for the sole purpose of running for a senate seat where the primary was cleared for her in advance

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 18:22 (four days ago) link

actually sorry that's not true, I forgot about D'Amato

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 23 May 2020 18:28 (four days ago) link

I like Sittenfeld’s short stories - they’re unambtious, sort of Tom Perotta, Cat Person-type stories, but usually funny and absorbing. I don’t think she’s written a single novel I’d want to pick up though - I think the last one was a modernised Pride & Prejudice.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 23 May 2020 19:09 (four days ago) link


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