"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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"Oh, Whispers of the Wolf was pretty scary, eh, kids? With all those faces and moods, and they were depressed a lot, weren't they, kids? You don't think it's scary to be depressed all the time?"

alan r. banana (alanbanana), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

hahhaha i love him!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:43 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INGMAR BERGMAN FILM

(how many hail mary's is that?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:54 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

holy moley!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:59 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i know: rainy day(s), etc.

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 20:07 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

AMateurist I'll never trust anything you say regarding film ever again!

I would say that Wild Strawberries is far from depressing.

The one about God being a spider is a bit depressing. Cries and Whispers is certainly quite depressing.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

So?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:03 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

That's some shitty Peter Gabriel album.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:15 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (twelve years ago) Permalink

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (twelve years ago) Permalink

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (twelve years ago) Permalink

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (twelve years ago) Permalink

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (twelve years ago) Permalink

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (twelve years ago) Permalink

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (twelve years ago) Permalink

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (twelve years ago) Permalink

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

well, the earliest masterwork on this list is Through a Glass Darkly

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:28 (six months ago) Permalink

I was thinking that or Brink of Life. Going thru that list above, I realized I've only seen two of his 1960s films (Persona and The Virgin Spring).

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:31 (six months ago) Permalink

it wd make sense to watch

Through a Glass Darkly
Winter Light
The Silence

whenever you get to them

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:34 (six months ago) Permalink

(consecutively, i mean)

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:34 (six months ago) Permalink

Hour of the Wolf and Shame are his horror and sf films respectively, a good one-two punch of late black and white Bergman

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:11 (six months ago) Permalink

i don't really think of Shame as sf, anymore than i do The Sacrifice.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:39 (six months ago) Permalink

I'm trying to sell it to the kids, Morbs

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:42 (six months ago) Permalink

I love Shame, if it's possible to write such a thing. The scenes in the boat...

I like queer. You like queer, senator? (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:43 (six months ago) Permalink

I had no idea Bergman ever did anything close to sf - Shame is part of a trilogy as well, right?

gonna start with the first trilogy, thanks morbs

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:00 (six months ago) Permalink

Saw Persona for the fifth or sixth time last night, part of the Lightbox's big series--not utterly depressing. Between Shame and The Passion of Anna, both of which screened last week, I prefer The Passion of Anna. I've got Fanny and Alexander on the weekend, first time in many years.

clemenza, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:10 (six months ago) Permalink

I have Passion of Anna from an old Bergman DVD box. Been a few years since I've seen it, but I remember liking it more than a lot of his more high profile work.

Love F&A, perfect viewing for this time of year.

circa1916, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:14 (six months ago) Permalink

Fanny and Alexander is the one Bergman project I really didn't like. I've only seen the theatrical cut, but for one, the title is misleading- the movie's all about Alexander. also, this is a personal thing rather than a fault in the work, but I have a really hard time watching movies about paternalistic captors (Gaslight, Martha, The Night of the Hunter). I find them intensely uncomfortable to watch but more importantly very tedious, maybe because there's no suspense. imo a movie like Rosemary's Baby works brilliantly because we're kept in the dark until the very end.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:27 (six months ago) Permalink

You find The Night of the Hunter ... tedious?!

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:29 (six months ago) Permalink

tedious to watch. I like all of the films I mentioned (except F&A), but I find them immensely frustrating to sit through because I have such a burning hatred for the villains. not sure why, nothing like this ever happened to me, maybe I don't find the archetype very interesting. Robert Mitchum is just so vile in that movie.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:49 (six months ago) Permalink

he had VILE and EVIL tattooed on his toes

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:53 (six months ago) Permalink

Sexily vile.

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:54 (six months ago) Permalink

Watching the "Trilogy" first is the correct answer, but I would add...

Dreams is worthwhile, it has a slightly different look for Bergman - more lush I'd say - and excellent performances.

Brink of Life has almost a Hollywood-type structure, though it goes places Hollywood probably wouldn't have in 1958. Recommended.

From the late period, I found From the Life of Marionettes quite interesting, at least stylistically

Dud: The Touch, The Serpent's Egg - his only two English-language films, which may not be coincidental

All These Women is such an oddity in his oeuvre, I don't know whether to call it a dud or a curiosity

Josefa, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 22:54 (six months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

watched The Silence tonight, as soon as I saw that guy on the ladder with the fixed expression of goofy horror/surprise, I was sure this was Bergman's Fellini parody: the dwarves, the male lover holding his shoe by the laces, the setting, the debauchery. I was sure I'd find a whole subsection on the wiki page about this, but nope - lumped in as one of these modernist films, of a piece with Marienbad and Belle du Jour (!). no way. it's such a break for Bergman and an obvious comment on the Italian directors... anyway, The Silence was great and better than all of Fellini's films combined.

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:24 (five months ago) Permalink

now reading that his following film, All These Women, is a straight up 8 1/2 parody

buy the box people

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:27 (five months ago) Permalink

It's out of print already! But they say it'll be available again next month.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:23 (five months ago) Permalink

Hoping this leads to more big single-director sets.

resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:30 (five months ago) Permalink

me too, & though we probably won't see something as amazing and insane as the Bergman box for a while, directors with 10 or fewer films could be manageable. they already have the Tati box, they could do a Tarkovsky box but Kino has Nostalghia and they just put out The Sacrifice (would be perfectly happy with a nice Mirror disc no matter who puts it out). Bresson is doable.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:37 (five months ago) Permalink

I read rumors (on ILX?) that there's supposed to be a big Kiarostami box from CC this year. Maybe that'll turn out just to be the Koker Trilogy.

The Non-Verbal Signs Your Mod Is Giving You (WmC), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:57 (five months ago) Permalink

It all comes down to who holds the rights. Bergman and Kurosawa boxes happened because most of their films are owned by single entities who'll mega-license.

It's been floated on other forums that the next collections could be (in addition to Kiarostami) Ozu, Fassbinder, or even a retooled upgrade of Kurosawa, now that some more of his films are in play.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:02 (five months ago) Permalink

there's at least a dozen Fassbinder movies that have never had a region 1 release afaik

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:03 (five months ago) Permalink

I could almost see them doing a series of Fassbinder sets ala EMI's Bowie vinyl boxes.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 05:02 (five months ago) Permalink

There's a Tarkovsky box in the UK with all 7 films. The BFI Ozu and Kurosawa releases were annoyingly incomplete though.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 06:59 (five months ago) Permalink

Tarkovsky box (by Curzon/Artificial Eye) is sold out at source and (maybe by accident) includes a terrible transfer of Stalker. Criterion did a stand-alone Stalker which was much better. Agree that it all comes down to who owns the rights but Criterion have also done a restoration of Andrei Rublev recently so maybe the rights could be acquired idk.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:07 (five months ago) Permalink

there've been individual BR releases of everything(?) that was in the dvd box that i bought 5 or 6 years ago, i'd assumed they were all upgrades. and they are all available everywhere (seemingly)

BR box set, £40, amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sculpting-Time-Tarkovsky-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B074ZXQ226/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1547554845&sr=1-1&keywords=Andrei+Tarkovsky

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:21 (five months ago) Permalink

oh, i see now that Ivan, Solaris and Stalker individual BRs are criterion editions and the others are from that box, Artificial Eye versions.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:26 (five months ago) Permalink

oh ok, this is the one I was thinking of (which I have), no idea how the content differs (if at all) from your one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrei-Tarkovsky-Sculpting-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B071L2QVY8/

xp

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:27 (five months ago) Permalink

All of the Artificial Eye Tarkovsky BRs are meant to be 'remastered'. I bought the stand alone Nostalgia disc for £6 in Fopp - it is a significant upgrade on their previous, abysmal DVD, but still doesn't look that sparkling. Anagram is right that the Criterion Stalker - and Solaris - BRS available in the UK are much superior, and I'm guessing that their Andrei Rublev will be as well (I'm not even sure which cut of Rublev AE used for their disc).

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:30 (five months ago) Permalink

Funnily enough I've been looking into this recently (this should really be on a Tarkovsky thread, but since we're here...) Criterion just did a new BR restoration of Andrei Rublev which contains both the 185m (Tarkovsky-approved) cut and a longer 205m cut, but it's only been released in the US (so Region 1 only) and is unlikely to be released in the UK since it contains a scene of animal cruelty which contravenes UK film legislation. (I assume all currently available UK versions don't contain this scene.) Criterion won't release the uncut version in the UK.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:39 (five months ago) Permalink

*cut* version, I meant to say.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:40 (five months ago) Permalink

The BBFC are notoriously inconsistent when it comes to animal cruelty in films - generally, the artier the movie, the more lenient they are, so they might well pass the full version of Rublev uncut. As I understand it, Tarkovsky himself came to prefer the slightly shorter version, tho it is good to be offered the choice.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:44 (five months ago) Permalink

so Linn Ullmann, who's written several novels, has finally penned one based on her relationship with her famous parents. She was profiled in the NYT Magazine last week.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 January 2019 18:41 (four months ago) Permalink

Reading the Linn Ullmann book now, it's good. Lotsa detail about IB's personal habits, daily life at the house on Fåro, and the complicated dynamics of the Bergman/Ullmann family. Passages where she's trying to interview her dad as he's entering his dotage near the end are naturally pretty sad. Not yet clear on why this is called a novel instead of a straight-up memoir with names omitted.

Josefa, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:46 (four months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

RIP Bibi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMbvohZ_iY

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:18 (two months ago) Permalink

:-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:59 (two months ago) Permalink

otherwise fine NY Times obit has a mistake in it:

In addition to winning four Guldbagge Awards, the Swedish equivalent of the Oscar, she was named best actress at the Cannes Film Festival in 1958 for “Nara Livet” (“Brink of Life”), sharing the award with three co-stars, and best actress at the Berlin Film Festival in 1963 for the title role in “Alskarinnan” (“The Mistress”). Paradoxically (and surprisingly, to many), neither was a Bergman film.

Brink of Life is a Bergman film, and a great one at that. Not sure of its availability outside the Criterion boxset.

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 23:51 (two months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

It's still second tier Bergman -- the script is worse than the direction -- but I've realized I've been wrong about Autumn Sonata because I've denied how closely it cuts to the bone. I know way too many mothers and daughters in this same cycle of rage and affection.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:55 (one week ago) Permalink

I've started working my way again through Bergman chronologically, I've only gotten to Port of Call so far. Can't wait til I get to the later stuff

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:59 (one week ago) Permalink

I'm working my way through the big criterion collection box. Still only about a quarter of the way through. Trying to keep track of my Bergman power rankings as I proceed. There have been some nice surprises so far and a couple duds. A whole bunch of ones I've never seen before too.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:58 (one week ago) Permalink

I saw The Virgin Spring yesterday at sort of a sparsely attended screening. even knowing the movie going in I underestimated how unbelievably harrowing and intense it is on a big screen and with other people, who were all either dead silent or openly weeping.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:03 (one week ago) Permalink

that's the kind of screening I want to attend

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:06 (one week ago) Permalink

I just realized I've never seen any of his films on the big screen. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify that someday.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:10 (one week ago) Permalink

To me "showing cycles of rage and affection" is something that makes it 1st tier. Can't say I know what you mean on the direction, probably because I don't quite know how to evaluate that stuff.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:42 (one week ago) Permalink

The staging and framing are often A+; the writing too on-the-nose (probably one offscreen death too many).

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:27 (one week ago) Permalink

I reckon he takes quite a lot of risks with that script, hence maybe why you feel it's on-the-nose.

It does feel like Bergman is doing a session of psychoanalysis and ends up breaking people lol.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:59 (one week ago) Permalink


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