"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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"Oh, Whispers of the Wolf was pretty scary, eh, kids? With all those faces and moods, and they were depressed a lot, weren't they, kids? You don't think it's scary to be depressed all the time?"

alan r. banana (alanbanana), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link

hahhaha i love him!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INGMAR BERGMAN FILM

(how many hail mary's is that?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:54 (fifteen years ago) link

holy moley!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link

i know: rainy day(s), etc.

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 20:07 (fifteen years ago) link

AMateurist I'll never trust anything you say regarding film ever again!

I would say that Wild Strawberries is far from depressing.

The one about God being a spider is a bit depressing. Cries and Whispers is certainly quite depressing.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link

So?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:03 (fifteen years ago) link

That's some shitty Peter Gabriel album.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (fifteen years ago) link

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (fifteen years ago) link

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (fifteen years ago) link

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (thirteen years ago) link

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (thirteen years ago) link


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (thirteen years ago) link

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (thirteen years ago) link

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (thirteen years ago) link

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (twelve years ago) link

There's a Tarkovsky box in the UK with all 7 films. The BFI Ozu and Kurosawa releases were annoyingly incomplete though.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 06:59 (ten months ago) link

Tarkovsky box (by Curzon/Artificial Eye) is sold out at source and (maybe by accident) includes a terrible transfer of Stalker. Criterion did a stand-alone Stalker which was much better. Agree that it all comes down to who owns the rights but Criterion have also done a restoration of Andrei Rublev recently so maybe the rights could be acquired idk.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:07 (ten months ago) link

there've been individual BR releases of everything(?) that was in the dvd box that i bought 5 or 6 years ago, i'd assumed they were all upgrades. and they are all available everywhere (seemingly)

BR box set, £40, amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sculpting-Time-Tarkovsky-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B074ZXQ226/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1547554845&sr=1-1&keywords=Andrei+Tarkovsky

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:21 (ten months ago) link

oh, i see now that Ivan, Solaris and Stalker individual BRs are criterion editions and the others are from that box, Artificial Eye versions.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:26 (ten months ago) link

oh ok, this is the one I was thinking of (which I have), no idea how the content differs (if at all) from your one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrei-Tarkovsky-Sculpting-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B071L2QVY8/

xp

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:27 (ten months ago) link

All of the Artificial Eye Tarkovsky BRs are meant to be 'remastered'. I bought the stand alone Nostalgia disc for £6 in Fopp - it is a significant upgrade on their previous, abysmal DVD, but still doesn't look that sparkling. Anagram is right that the Criterion Stalker - and Solaris - BRS available in the UK are much superior, and I'm guessing that their Andrei Rublev will be as well (I'm not even sure which cut of Rublev AE used for their disc).

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:30 (ten months ago) link

Funnily enough I've been looking into this recently (this should really be on a Tarkovsky thread, but since we're here...) Criterion just did a new BR restoration of Andrei Rublev which contains both the 185m (Tarkovsky-approved) cut and a longer 205m cut, but it's only been released in the US (so Region 1 only) and is unlikely to be released in the UK since it contains a scene of animal cruelty which contravenes UK film legislation. (I assume all currently available UK versions don't contain this scene.) Criterion won't release the uncut version in the UK.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:39 (ten months ago) link

*cut* version, I meant to say.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:40 (ten months ago) link

The BBFC are notoriously inconsistent when it comes to animal cruelty in films - generally, the artier the movie, the more lenient they are, so they might well pass the full version of Rublev uncut. As I understand it, Tarkovsky himself came to prefer the slightly shorter version, tho it is good to be offered the choice.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:44 (ten months ago) link

so Linn Ullmann, who's written several novels, has finally penned one based on her relationship with her famous parents. She was profiled in the NYT Magazine last week.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 January 2019 18:41 (nine months ago) link

Reading the Linn Ullmann book now, it's good. Lotsa detail about IB's personal habits, daily life at the house on Fåro, and the complicated dynamics of the Bergman/Ullmann family. Passages where she's trying to interview her dad as he's entering his dotage near the end are naturally pretty sad. Not yet clear on why this is called a novel instead of a straight-up memoir with names omitted.

Josefa, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:46 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

RIP Bibi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMbvohZ_iY

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:18 (seven months ago) link

:-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:59 (seven months ago) link

otherwise fine NY Times obit has a mistake in it:

In addition to winning four Guldbagge Awards, the Swedish equivalent of the Oscar, she was named best actress at the Cannes Film Festival in 1958 for “Nara Livet” (“Brink of Life”), sharing the award with three co-stars, and best actress at the Berlin Film Festival in 1963 for the title role in “Alskarinnan” (“The Mistress”). Paradoxically (and surprisingly, to many), neither was a Bergman film.

Brink of Life is a Bergman film, and a great one at that. Not sure of its availability outside the Criterion boxset.

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 23:51 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

It's still second tier Bergman -- the script is worse than the direction -- but I've realized I've been wrong about Autumn Sonata because I've denied how closely it cuts to the bone. I know way too many mothers and daughters in this same cycle of rage and affection.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:55 (five months ago) link

I've started working my way again through Bergman chronologically, I've only gotten to Port of Call so far. Can't wait til I get to the later stuff

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:59 (five months ago) link

I'm working my way through the big criterion collection box. Still only about a quarter of the way through. Trying to keep track of my Bergman power rankings as I proceed. There have been some nice surprises so far and a couple duds. A whole bunch of ones I've never seen before too.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:58 (five months ago) link

I saw The Virgin Spring yesterday at sort of a sparsely attended screening. even knowing the movie going in I underestimated how unbelievably harrowing and intense it is on a big screen and with other people, who were all either dead silent or openly weeping.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:03 (five months ago) link

that's the kind of screening I want to attend

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:06 (five months ago) link

I just realized I've never seen any of his films on the big screen. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify that someday.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:10 (five months ago) link

To me "showing cycles of rage and affection" is something that makes it 1st tier. Can't say I know what you mean on the direction, probably because I don't quite know how to evaluate that stuff.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:42 (five months ago) link

The staging and framing are often A+; the writing too on-the-nose (probably one offscreen death too many).

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:27 (five months ago) link

I reckon he takes quite a lot of risks with that script, hence maybe why you feel it's on-the-nose.

It does feel like Bergman is doing a session of psychoanalysis and ends up breaking people lol.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:59 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

was Summer With Monika really the film that made US critics/audiences recognize that Sweden had a more sexually liberated culture? if so, that’s interesting

Dan S, Saturday, 6 July 2019 01:00 (four months ago) link

I loved Smiles of a Summer Night

Dan S, Saturday, 13 July 2019 23:31 (four months ago) link

That was a new one to me when I got the criterion set, and it's probably my favorite find, absolutely delightful.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 14 July 2019 04:11 (four months ago) link

his best comedy - his only good comedy? the ones I've seen (Waiting Women and All These Women) are terrible

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 July 2019 05:16 (four months ago) link

Have never seen The Devils's Eye, is that a bad comedy too?

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Sunday, 14 July 2019 08:51 (four months ago) link

I'd like to hear any review of The Devil's Eye, one of the very few classic period Bergmans I've not seen.

HIs birthday today - 101

Josefa, Sunday, 14 July 2019 14:22 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

wasn't expecting to love Wild Strawberries so much, seeing it again after decades

Dan S, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 00:58 (three months ago) link

three weeks pass...

have been re-reading the thread. I guess you could call Wild Strawberries ‘life-affirming’. I just really liked how much of a fantasia it was, mixing absurd real events, dreams, and memories in the protagonist’s path from withdrawal to engagement. Victor Sjöström was great in it

Dan S, Friday, 30 August 2019 23:17 (two months ago) link

thought To Joy was one of the strangest and most interesting of his early films

Dan S, Sunday, 1 September 2019 23:52 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

I enjoyed seeing the 60s Bergman films that are supposed to form a trilogy - Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light, and The Silence.

According to Bergman “these three films deal with reduction: Through a Glass Darkly – conquered certainty; Winter Light – penetrated certainty; The Silence – God's silence, the negative imprint.”

They are very dark (The Silence also has a lot of humor), but they are all fantastic

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:25 (one month ago) link

thought The Silence did seem somewhat Fellini-esque as flappy bird mentioned above, mostly the sections with the the child

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:25 (one month ago) link

Those are coming up soon in my Bergman box. I haven't seen them in about 15 years, but I remember them all being brutally bleak.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 20 September 2019 02:28 (one month ago) link

they all seem to be focused on the acknowledgement of the silence of god, and the choices that the characters then have about how to live their lives: Through a Glass Darkly ultimately concluding that god is love amid the scenes of hopelessness; Winter Light, in which rational discussions of love for and belief in god and belief in human relationships reveal them to be problematic, with some hope ultimately offered for faith; The Silence, even further diminishing our confidence in faith but also maybe elevating it, offering of a huge ray of light with the character of Johan1

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:45 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Ended up skipping over Persona, Hour of the Wolf, The Passion of Anna, and Cries and Whispers for the moment and watching Scenes from a Marriage, the theatrical version. The first time I saw it was as a teenager. It feels now like it was of its time, in a good way

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:47 (one month ago) link

Gotta do the long version, it's so good

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:49 (one month ago) link

thinking I should, maybe will wait until I work my way through the rest of his films though. It does bring up for me the question of whether to watch the mini-series version or theatrical version of Fanny and Alexander

seeing this again a lot of its appeal is in the attractiveness of the two main characters, and I can now better relate to their worry about the reality of love, about the possibility of not having loved or been loved enough

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:57 (one month ago) link

It definitely hit me harder on my recent viewing than the previous one some 15 years ago. A big part of it is just their wonderful acting and all the long, long takes.

I prefer the theatrical F&A, it flows better, but both are worth watching.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:13 (one month ago) link

I probably say it a couple times a year on this board, but you NEED to watch the full cut of F&A.

Maria Edgelord (cryptosicko), Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:46 (one month ago) link

criterion channel does have both

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:52 (one month ago) link

really looking forward to seeing Persona again

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:24 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

Cries and Whisper is intense, it feels like a culmination of his surreal psychosexual dramas

Dan S, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 01:10 (two weeks ago) link

I like Ebert’s description that the camera darts and falls back as if stunned, then in other scenes doesn’t look away when you want it to, focusing on the close-up with extreme impassivity

Dan S, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 04:27 (two weeks ago) link

not sure what I think of Face to Face as a film, but Liv Ullmann is an incredible force in it

“love surrounds everything, even death” is a good resolution

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 01:21 (one week ago) link

it is kind of amazing that he allows dream scenes to take over big segments of his films

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:07 (one week ago) link

Face to Face is second tier Bergman. I have trouble remembering it beyond Ullmann reaction shots (as ever).

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:20 (one week ago) link

it feels like a lot of his characters even if they are tragic are willing/trying to support others

I love that about his films

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:29 (one week ago) link


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