"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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"Oh, Whispers of the Wolf was pretty scary, eh, kids? With all those faces and moods, and they were depressed a lot, weren't they, kids? You don't think it's scary to be depressed all the time?"

alan r. banana (alanbanana), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

hahhaha i love him!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INGMAR BERGMAN FILM

(how many hail mary's is that?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:54 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

holy moley!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i know: rainy day(s), etc.

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 20:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

AMateurist I'll never trust anything you say regarding film ever again!

I would say that Wild Strawberries is far from depressing.

The one about God being a spider is a bit depressing. Cries and Whispers is certainly quite depressing.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

So?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

That's some shitty Peter Gabriel album.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:15 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (eleven years ago) Permalink

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (eleven years ago) Permalink

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

That's a different scenario too -- iirc people would hang around and wouldn't leave when it got rough. Although Schygulla did for a while..

Whereas Hollywood there are contracts etc., more like a job.

That doesn't mean it should go on now. I won't watch people being chewed up and thrown out like garbage on film. I don't have the patience for that.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 11:40 (three months ago) Permalink

Seventh Seal is the only Bergman i've seen all the way through. i was surprised at how funny/light hearted it was. that dark Scandanavian humor...

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:35 (three months ago) Permalink

Funny, yes. Not quite lighthearted.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:41 (three months ago) Permalink

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:41 (three months ago) Permalink

full length F&A is also one of my all time favorite films, to the extent I don't actually remember what was cut for the theatrical version anymore. (Same with Scenes from a Marriage). I usually don't watch in one sitting, which seems to fit the year-in-the-life-ness of it for me. Anyway, as in intro to Bergman, it's probably on the quaint side, but still has lots of darkness and weird psychological drama (especially the plot w/the Alexander and the bishop). I think for any budding artist, it's a great movie -- had a huge impact on me as a teen, for reasons I wasn't completely aware of at the time, but looking back seem obvious.

I think I learned about this guy from Woody Allen movies?

Dominique, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:58 (three months ago) Permalink

I just saw Summer Interlude and loved it. It may be my new favourite Bergman.

This final scene with the ballet master in costume as the sorcerer from Swan Lake is eerie, and feels like a prefiguration of the knight and Death talking through the confessional grill.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZjg2OGU4NzYtOWM2ZS00MGZmLWJlOTQtYzY1OTU3NWE4Y2ZmXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_SY500_CR0,0,683,500_AL_.jpg

jmm, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:44 (three months ago) Permalink

Love the shot in Summer Interlude where the guy jumps on the rocks & the girls screams and the camera just tilts up to a small black cloud above them.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:55 (three months ago) Permalink

man do y'all realize how many critics awards trophies Liv Ullmann won for Bergman films in the 1970s? Also: I knew Bergman got three Oscar nods for Best Director but somehow forgot that one of them was for Face to Face.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:02 (three months ago) Permalink

Check this out!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:12 (three months ago) Permalink

I can't find it online, but there's a '70s Peanuts strip wherein Lucy reveals she uses a Liv Ullmann signature baseball glove.

...some of y'all too woke to function (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:55 (three months ago) Permalink

holy shit^

flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 05:49 (three months ago) Permalink

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies


Ha this reminds me of Sparks' musical the seduction of ingmar bergman, in which the climax of the director's spiritual crisis comes when he finds himself living out... a Hollywood action movie

It's true tho that when ppl talk about smiles et al they always pitch it as "Bergman... does comedy?!?!?????,?!" but there are a load of funny bits in his other films

scrüt (wins), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 09:50 (three months ago) Permalink

It's not even his only comedy (A Lesson in Love, The Devil's Eye).

Yeah, the NY critics din't start to turn in him til The Serpent's Egg, I think.

The Daily with links on the NY retro:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/5373-a-bergman-feast-at-film-forum

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 21:56 (three months ago) Permalink

Solid Lane essay.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 February 2018 12:58 (three months ago) Permalink

Harriet Andersson turns 86 on Wednesday

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:01 (three months ago) Permalink

I saw IB's second feature as director this weekend, It Rains on Our Love, and... everyone has to start somewhere I guess. A lurching mix of Pirandello, Renoir and Capra (I kid you not -- there are cutaways to the romantic leads' dog). Not much of interest besides the attractiveness of the stars (the very handsome Birger Malmsten did a slew of early Bergmans, and turns up in The Silence and Face to Face.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/h632/bzB65ZCNROzO0YytI6E49HsgSlp.jpg

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:13 (three months ago) Permalink

I'm re-reading Bergman on Bergman, a book of 1968-1970 interviews, in which he admits It Rains on Our Love was influenced by film noir, particularly Michael Curtiz.

He's pretty down on most of his 1940s work, and apparently his least favorite of all his films is This Can't Happen Here (1950). He feels he came into his own with Summer Interlude, which came out a year after This Can't Happen Here even though it was filmed before it.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:33 (three months ago) Permalink

That's weird, cuz Rains came out in '46, and the only Curtiz film I'd call a noir up to then was Mildred Pierce (which doesn't especially resemble his film aside from a little nighttime suspense, I suppose).

I wouldn't challenge him re Summer Interlude, as the only other '40s film I've seen is Port of Call. He wasn't fully formed yet. I do have Crisis on my shelf from the library.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:39 (three months ago) Permalink

Summer Interlude was the real eye-opener when I saw the Blu-ray print a couple years ago: that shit was sexy.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:41 (three months ago) Permalink

yeah Summer Interlude is great

flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:45 (three months ago) Permalink

I guess there's a bit of inexactness in his comment about film noir. Here's the passage from the interview:

Interviewer: [It Rains on Our Love] shows a heavy influence from the film noir.

IB: Yes. At that time the film noir directors were my gods. One who meant a lot to me was Michael Curtiz. I remember how Lars-Eric Kjellgren and I - we'd started together at SF [Svensk Filmindustri] and were close friends - saw Curtiz's films, the same films, over and over again, evening after evening, to find out how he did it. It was extremely good for us. Curtiz knew how to tell a story quite clearly, simply, and straightforwardly, as Raoul Walsh did.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:31 (three months ago) Permalink

Welles liked Curtiz too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:45 (three months ago) Permalink

As did Fassbinder.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:49 (three months ago) Permalink

You can tell how good Curtiz and Raoul Walsh were: both failed to make the ILX 100.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:50 (three months ago) Permalink

I don't like magicians but I liked The Magician. saw the matinee at Film Forum today and for the first half of the movie they were fuckin drilling in the next room or something, lots of pissed geriatrics getting up to give someone words.

flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 03:00 (three months ago) Permalink

I saw his 1969 made-for-TV The Rite tonight, and I don't think the Film Forum crowd was ready when the phalluses and studded wrist cuffs appeared.

He got better at kink later.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 03:41 (three months ago) Permalink

(The actor who plays the censorious judge is named Erik Hell. He goes into a confessional and the priest is Bergman.)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 03:49 (three months ago) Permalink

It was fun to see Anders Ek in that (as Sebastian) 15 years after he was the clown in Sawdust and Tinsel. It's a weird one though.

One odd thing that's jumped out at me watching these Film Forum screenings... did Bergman use the same opening titles for all his films from the late '50s through at least Persona? Never noticed this before.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:22 (three months ago) Permalink

would explain Woody's thing

flappy bird, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:29 (three months ago) Permalink

https://fontsinuse.com/uses/8894/persona-opening-titles

This. Or the same with black & white reversed.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:45 (three months ago) Permalink

Well I give up, look up "Persona font." I think the font is called Florida.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:59 (three months ago) Permalink

Looks like The Seventh Seal through Shame have the same titles. (1957 to 1968).

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 06:15 (three months ago) Permalink

Dreams seems hard to see (no US DVD, no Kanopy stream), but I think I'll pass. P Kael snorted at it (also Secrets of Women, which I can see online).

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 19:33 (three months ago) Permalink

Dreams was solid, if a few degrees more predictable and conventional than I would expect from Bergman. Harriet Andersson nails her role, has a terrific drunk scene, and p much carries the film (one of the revelations of this Film Forum series is that Harriet Andersson is so goddamn great all the time, in many different roles). Cinematography excellent throughout. I felt the dialogue became repetitive and banal in Eva Dahlbeck's big scene about 3/4 of the way through and there the film dragged, but it picked up when the humor that had been essential previously returned at the end.

Would like to talk to anyone who saw All These Women (1964), which was, um... something. Bergman working well out of his comfort zone trying to do a '60s-style sexy comedic farce (tone somewhere in the neighborhood of What's New, Pussycat?). Nice to see the famous Bergman actresses in color for the first time, but the film doesn't really ever click comedically. Jarl Kulle is David Niven-ish, but no David Niven (or Peter Sellers).

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:28 (two months ago) Permalink

Haven't seen it; apparently it's regarded as a riff on 8-1/2. It's the year before Pussycat, so we can't accuse IB of imitating Woody Allen. ;)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 04:39 (two months ago) Permalink

I had heard that re 8 1/2 but I didn't really see it, except very superficially (decor, clothes)

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:44 (two months ago) Permalink

I can see it later...

https://www.kanopystreaming.com/product/all-these-women

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 04:48 (two months ago) Permalink

77 minutes, huh. Seems a lot longer.

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:56 (two months ago) Permalink

I can see it later...

https://www.kanopystreaming.com/product/all-these-women


Not if your access is through the NYPL you can't. It says "Video Not Available."

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 23 February 2018 11:38 (two months ago) Permalink

well, that sucks, not that i have watched a single thing on it yet.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 25 February 2018 21:32 (two months ago) Permalink

two talks with Liv at Film Forum

https://filmforum.org/events/podcasts

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 March 2018 18:48 (two months ago) Permalink

^ Currently enjoying. In the earlier one the interviewer makes a big blunder saying that Sven Nykvist's first film with Bergman was Persona (and Ullmann goes along with it). Nykvist had been IB's sole cinematographer since The Virgin Spring in '59.

Josefa, Saturday, 10 March 2018 16:21 (two months ago) Permalink

Thought about going to FF the other day but went instead to MoMA to see Rio Escondido.

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:06 (two months ago) Permalink

The two (well, three) filmmakers I've most softened on in the last five to ten years are Ingmar Bergman and the Dardennes. With age comes misery.

"Minneapolis" (barf) (Eric H.), Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:35 (two months ago) Permalink

30 movies showing here starting with Crisis and Port of Call later this month. Very excited.

flappy bird, Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:35 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Crisis was pretty good for a first film. Surprised by how much of a piece it felt with the rest of his work. As with every movie of his I've seen there's at least one moment that is transcendent - in this one, the train sequence with the triple superimposition of Mutti's face and those memories. Retro here is only doing one a month though, so Port of Call in a month, To Joy in May. So it'll be minor work for a while, at least until the summer.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:39 (one month ago) Permalink

I watched the Criterion of Summer with Monika last weekend, remembered very little about it, including the "Look how hot my new girlfriend is" angle. The famous closeup of Harriet Andersson near the end is really something, but it's hard to read the denouement as anything but a Goddamn Bitch cautionary fable.

It might be fun to watch the US exploitation cut sometime:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2332-monika-trailer-for-broad-minds-only

Also the CC has a short edited from IB's location movies (taken with a Bell & Howell); look, Ingmar laughs! Constantly!

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 15:37 (one month ago) Permalink

wow that trailer is nuts. is the dubbed version actually a different cut? I prefer Summer Interlude, though I like Monika more than SMOASN, which I thought really dragged (108 minutes feels long for him).

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:24 (one month ago) Permalink

yes, it was scissored down by an American hustler and dubbed with what sounds like a completely different script.

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2317-monika-the-story-of-a-bad-girl

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:28 (one month ago) Permalink


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