"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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"Oh, Whispers of the Wolf was pretty scary, eh, kids? With all those faces and moods, and they were depressed a lot, weren't they, kids? You don't think it's scary to be depressed all the time?"

alan r. banana (alanbanana), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

hahhaha i love him!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INGMAR BERGMAN FILM

(how many hail mary's is that?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:54 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

holy moley!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i know: rainy day(s), etc.

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 20:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

AMateurist I'll never trust anything you say regarding film ever again!

I would say that Wild Strawberries is far from depressing.

The one about God being a spider is a bit depressing. Cries and Whispers is certainly quite depressing.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

So?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

That's some shitty Peter Gabriel album.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:15 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (eleven years ago) Permalink

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (eleven years ago) Permalink

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

F&A is the one where the uncle blows out a candle in unorthodox fashion, right?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 February 2018 16:59 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Fastest five hours I've ever watched, most of which in one sitting. Much of it remained familiar; it helped.

Anyway, F&A is a notch below his very best achievements, but as epic it's an ideal summa.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 February 2018 17:06 (two weeks ago) Permalink

do any hoovering? running machine?

Heavy Messages (jed_), Saturday, 3 February 2018 00:35 (two weeks ago) Permalink

this WSJ piece has been up for 3 days, and the headline blurb calls him "the French icon"!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ingmar-bergmans-heart-of-darkness-1517434450

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 3 February 2018 17:24 (two weeks ago) Permalink

lol jesus

Bergman doesn’t really get talked about much these days, at least ime. I remember when he died my friend’s dad made fun of how pretentious The Seventh Seal was, and yeah that’s definitely my least favorite of the 10 or so I’ve seen, but he’s not the icon that Fassbinder is. I don’t know, half formed thought, but something I’ve been thinking about since I first saw Persona last year.

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:16 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:30 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The reputation that The Seventh Seal has for "pretension" annoys me to no end. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with a) Bergman's presumed humourlessness (also B.S. as there is certainly humour in many of his films, and I don't just mean the comedies) and b) so many comedies (SCTV, Bill and Ted) utilizing the "playing chess with death" thing for laughs over the years, but mostly I just assume that most people who make the charge against the film haven't actually seen it.

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:56 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Bergman has always been about, for as long as I've been aware of these things -- as an 'icon' or otherwise.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:40 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah like i said this could just be in my life, in the film community here, he hasn't had a resurgence in interest or popularity like Tarkovsky or Fassbinder. not sure. like i said, not a fully formed thought. and yeah i know the thing about him being humorless is just wrong. even Cries & Whispers has its moments

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:20 (two weeks ago) Permalink

but yeah, maybe it's just he's always been around, like Hitchcock. his work has never been out of print or under appreciated, like Tarkovsky

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I think he's always been around, but then I'd say the same about Tarkovsky, I don't when Tarkovsky's ever been under appreciated. The thing about Fassbinder is he might get talked about a lot but I'm always surprised at how few of his films people have actually seen.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:26 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Fassbinder has the lived fast died young thing going for him, and yeah he was super prolific but you're right, is there a consensus on his most seen/ most well known work? Ali: Fear Eats the Soul?

Tarkovsky has gotten a bump in recent years, certainly with the vastly improved Criterion remaster of Stalker last summer.

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:29 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The upside-down melodramas are the widely accepted best (Ali, Petra, Merchant). It's reductive but there's too much of it and takes years to process his work.

Tarkovsky always been around - to such an extent he overshadows a lot of other, equally terrific filmmaking from the Soviet Union and former republics.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:50 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The reduced fashionability of Bergman has been a thing for forever. When I was kid, one of the only film books lying around the house was Ebert's mid-'80s video guide, which had an appendix devoted to writings on the most recent Sight & Sound poll, and one of his big talking points was the shock of Bergman falling out of the Top 20.

Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Beat me to it, I was just about to say:

I think it's fair to say Bergman isn't talked about as much as he once was. If you look at the Sight & Sound polls through history they would suggest his critical cachet peaked somewhere around 1972. That was the year he placed two films in their Top Ten (Persona and Wild Strawberries), whereas in no other year has he placed even one that high. Maybe there's just more directors to talk about nowadays. It's otherwise difficult to explain why he's seemed to be relatively out-of-fashion in recent decades though still respected.

Josefa, Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:26 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Guardian is comin' for him!

pic.twitter.com/js6AqdFAHW

— Peter Labuza (@labuzamovies) February 4, 2018

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:18 (one week ago) Permalink

The reduced fashionability of Bergman has been a thing for forever. When I was kid, one of the only film books lying around the house was Ebert's mid-'80s video guide, which had an appendix devoted to writings on the most recent Sight & Sound poll, and one of his big talking points was the shock of Bergman falling out of the Top 20.

― Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, February 3, 2018 5:22 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Beat me to it, I was just about to say:

I think it's fair to say Bergman isn't talked about as much as he once was. If you look at the Sight & Sound polls through history they would suggest his critical cachet peaked somewhere around 1972. That was the year he placed two films in their Top Ten (Persona and Wild Strawberries), whereas in no other year has he placed even one that high. Maybe there's just more directors to talk about nowadays. It's otherwise difficult to explain why he's seemed to be relatively out-of-fashion in recent decades though still respected.

― Josefa, Saturday, February 3, 2018

His films made money in American cities and college towns well into the F&A era. Note the profits of those films and the number of Oscar nods he got (three Best Director nominations!). Popularity hurt him too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:27 (one week ago) Permalink

"Could this famously manipulative genius have survived in the #MeToo era?"

Tarr Yang Preminger Argento Carpenter (Eric H.), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:33 (one week ago) Permalink

Dreyer is next!

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:37 (one week ago) Permalink

lol was gonna say hitchcock but he actually did get me too'd

flappy bird, Monday, 5 February 2018 03:45 (one week ago) Permalink

That Bradshaw piece is weird, he doesn't quote any of the actresses saying he assaulted them on set - any relationships seemed to have been consensual?

Unlike Hitch, who was an abuser.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 08:02 (one week ago) Permalink

well, acc to Tippi (I believe her)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 08:58 (one week ago) Permalink

#metoo

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 10:06 (one week ago) Permalink

Just last week someone I know was saying how long before Bergman's name comes up. As for Fassbinder, there's a can of worms.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 5 February 2018 10:57 (one week ago) Permalink

That's a different scenario too -- iirc people would hang around and wouldn't leave when it got rough. Although Schygulla did for a while..

Whereas Hollywood there are contracts etc., more like a job.

That doesn't mean it should go on now. I won't watch people being chewed up and thrown out like garbage on film. I don't have the patience for that.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 11:40 (one week ago) Permalink

Seventh Seal is the only Bergman i've seen all the way through. i was surprised at how funny/light hearted it was. that dark Scandanavian humor...

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:35 (one week ago) Permalink

Funny, yes. Not quite lighthearted.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:41 (one week ago) Permalink

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:41 (one week ago) Permalink

full length F&A is also one of my all time favorite films, to the extent I don't actually remember what was cut for the theatrical version anymore. (Same with Scenes from a Marriage). I usually don't watch in one sitting, which seems to fit the year-in-the-life-ness of it for me. Anyway, as in intro to Bergman, it's probably on the quaint side, but still has lots of darkness and weird psychological drama (especially the plot w/the Alexander and the bishop). I think for any budding artist, it's a great movie -- had a huge impact on me as a teen, for reasons I wasn't completely aware of at the time, but looking back seem obvious.

I think I learned about this guy from Woody Allen movies?

Dominique, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:58 (one week ago) Permalink

I just saw Summer Interlude and loved it. It may be my new favourite Bergman.

This final scene with the ballet master in costume as the sorcerer from Swan Lake is eerie, and feels like a prefiguration of the knight and Death talking through the confessional grill.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZjg2OGU4NzYtOWM2ZS00MGZmLWJlOTQtYzY1OTU3NWE4Y2ZmXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_SY500_CR0,0,683,500_AL_.jpg

jmm, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:44 (one week ago) Permalink

Love the shot in Summer Interlude where the guy jumps on the rocks & the girls screams and the camera just tilts up to a small black cloud above them.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:55 (one week ago) Permalink

man do y'all realize how many critics awards trophies Liv Ullmann won for Bergman films in the 1970s? Also: I knew Bergman got three Oscar nods for Best Director but somehow forgot that one of them was for Face to Face.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:02 (one week ago) Permalink

Check this out!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:12 (one week ago) Permalink

I can't find it online, but there's a '70s Peanuts strip wherein Lucy reveals she uses a Liv Ullmann signature baseball glove.

...some of y'all too woke to function (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:55 (one week ago) Permalink

holy shit^

flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 05:49 (one week ago) Permalink

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies


Ha this reminds me of Sparks' musical the seduction of ingmar bergman, in which the climax of the director's spiritual crisis comes when he finds himself living out... a Hollywood action movie

It's true tho that when ppl talk about smiles et al they always pitch it as "Bergman... does comedy?!?!?????,?!" but there are a load of funny bits in his other films

scrüt (wins), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 09:50 (one week ago) Permalink

It's not even his only comedy (A Lesson in Love, The Devil's Eye).

Yeah, the NY critics din't start to turn in him til The Serpent's Egg, I think.

The Daily with links on the NY retro:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/5373-a-bergman-feast-at-film-forum

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 21:56 (one week ago) Permalink

Solid Lane essay.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 February 2018 12:58 (one week ago) Permalink

Harriet Andersson turns 86 on Wednesday

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:01 (five days ago) Permalink

I saw IB's second feature as director this weekend, It Rains on Our Love, and... everyone has to start somewhere I guess. A lurching mix of Pirandello, Renoir and Capra (I kid you not -- there are cutaways to the romantic leads' dog). Not much of interest besides the attractiveness of the stars (the very handsome Birger Malmsten did a slew of early Bergmans, and turns up in The Silence and Face to Face.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/h632/bzB65ZCNROzO0YytI6E49HsgSlp.jpg

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:13 (five days ago) Permalink

I'm re-reading Bergman on Bergman, a book of 1968-1970 interviews, in which he admits It Rains on Our Love was influenced by film noir, particularly Michael Curtiz.

He's pretty down on most of his 1940s work, and apparently his least favorite of all his films is This Can't Happen Here (1950). He feels he came into his own with Summer Interlude, which came out a year after This Can't Happen Here even though it was filmed before it.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:33 (five days ago) Permalink

That's weird, cuz Rains came out in '46, and the only Curtiz film I'd call a noir up to then was Mildred Pierce (which doesn't especially resemble his film aside from a little nighttime suspense, I suppose).

I wouldn't challenge him re Summer Interlude, as the only other '40s film I've seen is Port of Call. He wasn't fully formed yet. I do have Crisis on my shelf from the library.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:39 (five days ago) Permalink

Summer Interlude was the real eye-opener when I saw the Blu-ray print a couple years ago: that shit was sexy.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:41 (five days ago) Permalink

yeah Summer Interlude is great

flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:45 (five days ago) Permalink

I guess there's a bit of inexactness in his comment about film noir. Here's the passage from the interview:

Interviewer: [It Rains on Our Love] shows a heavy influence from the film noir.

IB: Yes. At that time the film noir directors were my gods. One who meant a lot to me was Michael Curtiz. I remember how Lars-Eric Kjellgren and I - we'd started together at SF [Svensk Filmindustri] and were close friends - saw Curtiz's films, the same films, over and over again, evening after evening, to find out how he did it. It was extremely good for us. Curtiz knew how to tell a story quite clearly, simply, and straightforwardly, as Raoul Walsh did.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:31 (five days ago) Permalink

Welles liked Curtiz too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:45 (five days ago) Permalink

As did Fassbinder.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:49 (five days ago) Permalink

You can tell how good Curtiz and Raoul Walsh were: both failed to make the ILX 100.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:50 (five days ago) Permalink

I don't like magicians but I liked The Magician. saw the matinee at Film Forum today and for the first half of the movie they were fuckin drilling in the next room or something, lots of pissed geriatrics getting up to give someone words.

flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 03:00 (eighteen hours ago) Permalink


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