Cuba: Here we go again?

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Kerry leads in Florida polls, Cubans upset with Bush admin, Bolten dreams of bioweapons

g@bbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 April 2004 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought this was Bay Of Pigs 2.

(What were they thinking, putting pigs in a bay. Everyone knows pigs can't swim, and pork is better with Thyme).

Pete (Pete), Thursday, 1 April 2004 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Cuba would make a great Chevy's.

andy, Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought this was going to be about the haphazard career choices of Mr. Gooding.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Huck the Thunder-Stealer!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm a stinker, ain't I?

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought this was going to be about the haphazard career choices of Mr. Gooding.

or the arrival of III?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:39 (seventeen years ago) link

"Mr. Bolton either suffers from schizophrenia, a permanent obsession with Cuba or doesn't have an ounce of shame," the Cuban foreign minister said.

Like a shameless politician is a new thing?

Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:43 (seventeen years ago) link

"bay of pigs" really does sound like the title of some wicked political satire doesn't it? i guess the kennedy administration felt like it had to live up to its name....

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 1 April 2004 17:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Like a shameless politician is a new thing?

right. because there's nothing particularly shameless about this administration. and lets give up on the country, the economy, the world, etc.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 April 2004 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

FUCK CASTRO. WE'RE TAKING HIM OUT.

Why dont we just invade cuba and get it over with. Something to tell the grandkids about.

We also need to pre-empt any red dawn-like scenarios.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 1 April 2004 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Why dont we just invade cuba and get it over with. Something to tell the grandkids about.

Still celebrating crushing Hussein, ain't they? But it will be summat to tell the great grandkids about.

Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 1 April 2004 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...
3.5 days till i invade cuba yo!!!

s1ocki, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm going with my brother so if castro kicks it while we're there it's gonna be totally like godfather part 2!!!

s1ocki, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: US officials: US to start talks with Cuba to normalize full diplomatic relations, open embassy.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 14:53 (six years ago) link

good idea, this will take two years

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:20 (six years ago) link

Surely this is Obama flipping Putin the finger?

a pleasant little psychedelic detour in the elevator (Amory Blaine), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:22 (six years ago) link

is Putin doing all that much for the Castros these days?

more like Obama wanting to do one more obv positive thing while he's still breathing

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:33 (six years ago) link

Yeah I agree with the latter, the former is probably just a nice bonus.

a pleasant little psychedelic detour in the elevator (Amory Blaine), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:36 (six years ago) link

yeah I think this is more of a bucket list kind of move

man alive, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:38 (six years ago) link

CNN reports that the new rules still won't permit American tourism, but will make it easier to visit for other purposes.

wtf... but good, we won't do our kind of ruination quite yet.

Bob Menendez (D-NJ), such a shit:

"President Obama's actions have vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government," he said in a statement. "There is no equivalence between an international aid worker and convicted spies who were found guilty of conspiracy to commit espionage against our nation. One spy was also convicted of conspiracy to murder for his role in the 1996 tragedy in which the Cuban military shot down two U.S. civilian planes, killing several American citizens. My heart goes out to the American families that lost love ones on that fateful day."

“Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent," he added. "It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips. I fear that today’s actions will put at risk the thousands of Americans that work overseas to support civil society, advocate for access to information, provide humanitarian services, and promote democratic reforms."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/17/bob-menendez-marco-rubio-obama-cuba_n_6340906.html

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 16:18 (six years ago) link

It frustrates me that whether it's Barbara Lee or Dennis Kucinich not a single Dem can answer the question from Republicans, "But what about human rights abuses?" with "Human rights abuses in China and Vietnam don't trouble us; I see no reason to worry about Cuba's."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 17:37 (six years ago) link

Human rights abuses in America don't bother us, so

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 17:40 (six years ago) link

sit down lindz

https://twitter.com/GrahamBlog/status/545268810815905792

goole, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 17:42 (six years ago) link

In his statement Obama claimed that Gross was released by the Cubans on "humanitarian grounds" and at least tried to imply that the appeals of Francis had some effect. The three Cuban agents were released in exchange for an unnamed American spy held there, who (if I heard this right) was responsible for nabbing the three agents in the first place.

goole, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 17:45 (six years ago) link

Americans are pretty stupid about international stuff, but I find it hard for anyone other than the most hardened obama hater to think being nicer to cuba is an awful thing.

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:05 (six years ago) link

turn on FOX News now.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:07 (six years ago) link

thot fox was the official news source of hardened obama haters worldwide

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:11 (six years ago) link

I need to get back there before Disney

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:21 (six years ago) link

Well, this will surely complicate the GOP's strenuous and sincere attempt to court Hispanics.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:29 (six years ago) link

how so

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:30 (six years ago) link

he just secured the Cuban vote after 2012's promising first step.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:32 (six years ago) link

I thought all the angry old cubans were the ones who wanted the embargo in the first place

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:33 (six years ago) link

or are they all dying off

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:33 (six years ago) link

sorry if I'm being obtuse, the intricacies of Cuban-American voting bloc politics sort of mystify me

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:37 (six years ago) link

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

oh no! must be the season of the rich (Aimless), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:38 (six years ago) link

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:38 (six years ago) link

our next presidential aspirant, English collapsing:

"My understanding is that the influence that His Holiness had was on the release of Mr. [Alan] Gross, which I've not criticized. As I said, I'm happy that he's with the Cuban people [sic]. I would also ask His Holiness to take up the cause of freedom and democracy, which is critical for a free people — for a people to truly be free," Rubio, a Catholic whose parents immigrated from Cuba to flee the Castro regime, told reporters.

"I think the people of Cuba deserve the same chances to have democracy as the people of Argentina have had, where he comes from; as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:39 (six years ago) link

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

The Cuban exile community's once wizardly sway over Congress and the White House? It's not hard.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:40 (six years ago) link

last sentence of Rubio's is really a beauty

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:40 (six years ago) link

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:41 (six years ago) link

Shit, we've even normalized relations with the butchers in Myanmar, fer chrissakes.

oh no! must be the season of the rich (Aimless), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:43 (six years ago) link

"...as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

lmao really putting the knife in. who's the writer here? I can't get that quote to come up on google

goole, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:44 (six years ago) link

man, wait til the Pope announces he's moving the Vatican to Pinar del Rio

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:47 (six years ago) link

I hear the beaches are especially beautiful.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 18:48 (six years ago) link

I believe it's where I saw a rooster mascot do what looked like a Santeria dance around home plate.

http://www.que.es/archivos/201111/4219565w-640x640x80.jpg

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:04 (six years ago) link

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014

younger cubans really support liberalizing US-Cuban relations? not doubting it so much as observing how behind-the-times i must be.

Daniel, Esq 2, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:19 (six years ago) link

oh yeah -- the older ones too. The women who clean my grandmother's and take care of her are my mom's age. Most people who came after Helms-Burton support normalizing relations.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:24 (six years ago) link

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:41 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's real nice for Canada.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:26 (six years ago) link

Let me avoid confrontation: what motivated last week's protests?

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 July 2021 17:54 (one week ago) link

I haven’t said a thing about paid protesters, I’ve said I’m suspicious of the American media narrative and the meaning liberal interventionists have derived from the very possibility of protests and that I don’t believe we can draw meaning from them.

Why would I be suspicious or skeptical at all, as neanderthal has tut-tutted about? We’ve routinely astroturfed protest in states we’re hostile toward. (for instance, in Cuba itself - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/11/cuban-hip-hop-scene-infiltrated-us-information-youth)

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 19 July 2021 17:54 (one week ago) link

You drew a line between the “actual protesters” (the ones you like) and the counter-protests.

All Protests Matter

ten man poland chasing this means hamsik feasts (breastcrawl), Monday, 19 July 2021 17:59 (one week ago) link

My partner is Cuban (and most definitely non-American! Now living in Scotland, previously in Spain, and in Cuba until she was a teenager, and part of her family, including some she is close to, still live there). She'll never post on ilx though, I'm afraid, and I struggle to express my own views coherently, let alone hers. I've been passing many of the links on though, thanks for those.

brain (krakow), Monday, 19 July 2021 18:08 (one week ago) link

Jaruzelski had to do what he had to do, US hands off Poland!

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 19 July 2021 21:06 (one week ago) link

Xyzz, are the protestors CIA plants?

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

Lol.

That thread ufo linked is a nice enough analysis but it's an analysis. At the end of it:

So whose line will win out? That's a question that becomes especially vexing when you add back in the other actors: the Cuban neoliberals, the Cuban far right, the Miami exiles, and the security services of Cuba and the US.

— JMC 🌹🏴 (@red_dilettante) July 13, 2021

If the old lennists go it's a good chance the people you all care about won't get the chance to decide on anything. But at least lifting the embargo without any interference from white ppl, as well as Cuban Americans who don't live there, is a start. This is the thing that won't happen either, but it would allow for a better chance of survival to those that most need it in the first place.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 09:17 (one week ago) link

How hard is it to imagine that one could be critical of the present govt but also wants the embargo lifted and want the Cuban people to determinate their political future without foreign intervention? Like does it actually hurt you to admit people can think outside some either/or narrative presented by political leaders? Or are you just going to continue assuming that Cuban writers and Cuban posters in this thread don’t know or even want what’s best for their nation and family?

Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 13:37 (one week ago) link

President Joe Biden on Thursday plans to slap targeted individual sanctions on Cuba regime officials, bucking the progressive voices in his own party who called for an end to the embargo.

Biden’s response to Cuba — which also includes measures to bring increased internet access to the island and calls for more international pressure on the totalitarian government — was outlined Wednesday night in a call with Democratic Cuban-American activists in Miami who had been calling for more action ever since the July 11 uprisings on the island.

But it’s the proposal to extend the targeted sanctions of the Magnitsky Act, originally passed in response to Russian government oppression and then extended to governments such as Venezuela, that has most encouraged activists who want more pressure on Cuba.

“This is huge,” said Sasha Tirador, a top Miami political operative who was briefed on the plans Wednesday night.

“No administration has ever announced that they will hold each individual who violates human rights on the island of Cuba accountable,” she said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/22/biden-sanctions-cuba-500534

intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:58 (one week ago) link

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond tbh

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:03 (one week ago) link

🇨🇺 Let Cuba Live! Over 400 politicians, intellectuals, clergy, artists, activists & ex-heads of state call Biden to immediately lift Trump's 243 sanctions on Cuba.
Full page ad in the NYT tomorrow @answercoalition @codepink

Visit https://t.co/jQTKHAcwQ1 to sign the petition. pic.twitter.com/4X068AgqzL

— The People's Forum (@PeoplesForumNYC) July 22, 2021

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 22 July 2021 21:13 (one week ago) link

Like does it actually hurt you to admit people can think outside some either/or narrative presented by political leaders? Or are you just going to continue assuming that Cuban writers and Cuban posters in this thread don’t know or even want what’s best for their nation and family?

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

You can make up as many narratives you like but it isn't about narratives. Do you want the current leadership to go, is the question. What happens then? And who is going to get involved in those decisions? Give what we've seen in Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela in the last few years.

You've not been shy in talking out of arsehole about any of these countries so don't tell what I can or can't say.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 July 2021 10:11 (one week ago) link

Yes the current leadership has to go. Anyone who considers otherwise cares very little for democracy and human rights.

And who is going to get involved in those decisions?

Cubans? Is it hard to imagine that Cubans would be able to build a democracy if given the chance? And sure some Cubans who are more right wing will be given a larger voice than before but hey, in life it happens that people disagree with you on some matters and despite that they should have a voice too.

By the way, I don’t see a problem with what happened in Bolivia since the people have clearly and democratically elected the leader and party of their choice. Same as Peru. Same as Mexico. Same as Panama. And allow me to remind you that the US does exercise economic and political pressure on these nations too.

But if you think Maduro is the ideal for the future of latin american politics and that he should stay put, you care more about your ideology than actual human lives.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 23 July 2021 18:59 (one week ago) link

'but hey' if Cuba is turned into a backwater ruthlessly ruled by gusanos and Afro-Cubans get nothing then so what?

Lol liberals and their 'human rights'.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 July 2021 11:08 (six days ago) link

Cuba is a backwater ruthlessly ruled by white authoritarians.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 11:43 (six days ago) link

Backwaters don't produce covid vaccines.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 July 2021 12:19 (six days ago) link

Just go there and talk to people.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 14:40 (six days ago) link

yeah I suppose that could count as "importation of information" or maybe "professional research"

rob, Saturday, 24 July 2021 15:36 (six days ago) link

Been going to classes and practicing yoga for nearly a decade, will start yelling about the benefits of Chakras to troll ppl.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 July 2021 16:02 (six days ago) link

Liberal!

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 16:15 (six days ago) link

Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in your country. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to your market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

tean mean poleand cheaseang theas means hamseak feasts (breastcrawl), Saturday, 24 July 2021 16:15 (six days ago) link

lift the embargo!

tean mean poleand cheaseang theas means hamseak feasts (breastcrawl), Saturday, 24 July 2021 16:16 (six days ago) link

By the way, I don’t see a problem with what happened in Bolivia since the people have clearly and democratically elected the leader and party of their choice.

Ok, if Trump had stayed in power citing false claims of voter fraud, and there were massive protests resulting in dozens of people getting killed, and he finally agreed to new elections and left office in 2022, would you say the same thing? (It’s not a perfect analogy, Anez wasn’t even the choice of a sizable minority.)

JoeStork, Saturday, 24 July 2021 19:57 (six days ago) link

Trump even developed a vaccine, see

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 20:27 (six days ago) link

No the whole situation is so vastly different and so any analogy is useless. Especially since Anez made it clear there would be new elections, that she acted in an interim capacity, and that she and her party kept her word on that. Especially since Anez worked in concert with the opposition party to ensure fair and sound elections. Plus you did not mention the abuse of Morales presenting himself for elections despite losing a referendum to allow limitless terms. Plus Anez would have not gotten the role if MAS didn’t just allow her (a qorum would have been enough to stop her ascending, considering MAS had a big majority of seats, but they did not participate). Plus the unions, usually very left leaning, also called for Morales resignation. None of that could be mapped into American politics.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 20:39 (six days ago) link

And also, the point remains: Cubans have a right to free and fair elections, untainted from any foreign influence.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 20:46 (six days ago) link

xp

Didn't she claim that she wouldn't run in the new elections, then announce her candidacy anyway, repeatedly postpone the elections, and then only end her candidacy to try to defeat the MAS candidate? And yes, Morales's actions were questionable, but he did win the election, and the evidence of widespread fraud turned out to be false. And you didn't say anything about the dozens of people killed.

Regarding MAS "allowing her": The MAS delegation argued that the parliamentary session's first obligation was to elect its own new leaders (including replacing Salvatierra as president of the Senate), prior to replacing Morales.[45] It declared the session and its vote for Áñez's succession illegal.

JoeStork, Saturday, 24 July 2021 20:59 (six days ago) link

And who is going to get involved in those decisions?

Cubans? Is it hard to imagine that Cubans would be able to build a democracy if given the chance?

"If given the chance" doing Sisyphean work there. If you believe the US wouldn't interfere (to the detriment of the Cuban people), you most likely also believe in Santa Claus.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:15 (six days ago) link

If the western hemisphere's imperial hegemon can go five years without sponsoring a right-wing coup, we can start talking about states being "given a chance" at democracy and self-determination.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:17 (six days ago) link

Because that govt indeed killed people, but I just don’t see how it relates to a hypothetical involving american politics. Also,a year of interim is pretty fast considering the pandemic situation that developped. Also, I don’t remember Anez making such a promise (but I might be wrong!). It remains that in 2020, the Bolivians chose a governement to their liking and that it worked, and I don’t understand why Cubans shouldn’t be allowed the same democratic exercice.

If anything the Bolivian experience should make a pretty good case that latin americans are able to stick to their principles and autonomy despite foreign interference or the existence of right wing politics.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:24 (six days ago) link

wasbappin's blog never fails to deliver pic.twitter.com/5PDnPMPOID

— pez (@periuspb) July 24, 2021

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:25 (six days ago) link

Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence.

Has this present US administration opposed the elections of Castillo and Cortizo?

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:30 (six days ago) link

I just find it kind of astonishing to say "I don't see a problem" given that there was a year of anti-democratic rule and brutal treatment of protesters, precipitated by a false narrative of a stolen election. I'm glad that the elections happened and that democracy still seems to function there, but I don't really see it as a reason to think that things will be just fine everywhere.

JoeStork, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:33 (six days ago) link

the greatest threat of all … US influence.

You're so close to getting it.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:37 (six days ago) link

Morales was as much part of the anti-democratic situation as he clearly overstayed his welcome, and it’s no wonder MAS has clearly distanced itself from Morales since.

But yeah now it’s been many decades of anti-democratic rule, brutal treatment of protestors and false narratives for Cubans, but yes sure, it’s that status quo they want instead of … being able to do like Bolivians in reasserting their autonomy.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:46 (six days ago) link

You're so close to getting it.

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 5:37 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:51 (six days ago) link

The guy who won the democratic election is as much a part of the anti-democratic situation as the unelected president from the party with single-digit support who presided over the deaths of dozens of protesters?

JoeStork, Saturday, 24 July 2021 21:53 (six days ago) link

Despite the fact that he should have not been able to present himself in the first place? Yeah. Seems like abuse to me; which is why lots of left leaning group just abandonning him and decided to trust a OAS report with errors over anything and still to this day don’t care much for the dude.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 22:00 (six days ago) link

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 22:11 (six days ago) link

Alright, so we just need to allow the Cuban people to have their voices heard, but when the Bolivian people vote to give a guy you don't like another term, it's totally fine to ignore their voices and depose him based on false information.

JoeStork, Saturday, 24 July 2021 22:11 (six days ago) link

"Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence."

Nobody is saying this. If the US care about Cubans they should lift the sanctions they've kept for decades and leave Cubans and their administration to it.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:00 (six days ago) link

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:11 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Colombia has a better health care system than both Cuba and the US per the WHO. Colombia’s social expenditure is also pretty good, higher than South Korea and about the same as Ireland. I don’t know what you are talking about.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:21 (six days ago) link

...

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:22 (six days ago) link

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:42 (six days ago) link

I don't think it's necessary to want anything, aside from an end to the embargo (and American imperialism). Interventionists like VHS's fantasy of Cuban autonomy after their desired regime change is risible because of the dishonesty.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 24 July 2021 23:49 (six days ago) link

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 25 July 2021 01:27 (five days ago) link

y'all enjoy going in circles?

cos it makes for really shitting reading

making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 July 2021 01:41 (five days ago) link

*shitty

making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 July 2021 01:41 (five days ago) link

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

No, it's just a fantasy. (Or, more accurately, dishonesty.)

Joe Bombin (milo z), Sunday, 25 July 2021 01:56 (five days ago) link

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD8Cz2HOlEc

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 25 July 2021 09:31 (five days ago) link


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