defend the indefensible: THE IVY LEAGUE

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with all due apologies to kerry:

I had to explore this a while ago, since I was thinking of going to an architecture / urban planning school. However, my architect friend is telling me that the politics in the industry are terrible, and if you don't get into Harvard or Columbia or that caliber of school, you're nothing. I hear nothing but sad stories coming out of that field.

-- Kerry (dymaxiaOU...), March 6th, 2004.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:17 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

we'll let dan p, ally, gabbneb, that dave guy who went to princeton, and colin live.

as for the rest of you ivy league motherfuckers -- WHY SHOULD US PLEBES LET YOU LIVE? ;-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:18 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"According to a study by Anthony Carnevale, vice president of the Educational Testing Service, 74 percent of students at the 146 most prestigious colleges and universities—where competition for admissions is most intense and where affirmative action is practiced—come from families in the top 25 percent of the nation's socioeconomic scale (as measured by income, educational attainment and occupations of the parents)." (Village Voice column from a couple of weeks back)

"Only 3 percent of the students at these highly selective schools come from the bottom 25 percent of the socioeconomic scale."

- from another thread.

Since that includes maybe 40-50+ state schools, I can only imagine the situation is worse in the Ivy League.

Truly, you have found the ultimate in indefensibility.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:21 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i guess i should expand my definition of "ivy league" from the actual members thereof (harvard, yale, dartmouth, princeton, columbia, penn, cornell, brown) to include the snootier (ahem, "more selective") public universities (like UVA, U Mich., Cal-Berkeley, U. Texas-Austin, UNC-Chapel Hill), certain mega private universities (NYU, U. Chicago, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Duke) and smaller private colleges (too many to list -- think Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, that ilk).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:28 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Based on my friends and acquaintances who went to UT, "selective" is not a word I'd use.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i said UT-Austin. at least here on the east coast, UT-Austin is seen as pretty elite.

or is this just so much bullshit (like how rutgers cons its students by telling 'em that outside of NJ rutgers = ivy league?)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:32 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Roar, Lion, Roar
And wake the echos of the Hudson Valley!
Fight on to victory evermore,
While the sons of Knickerbocker rally round
Columbia! Columbia!
Shouting her name forever!
Roar, Lion, Roar
For Alma Mater on the Hudson Shore!

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:35 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

my mom and grandma want me to go to Harvard. My uncle went so it makes it just a little easier for me to get in than some other people.

I just was in an academic copetitoion for Catholic schools across SF. I had the Science portion and represented my school. I got 2nd place. Whoohoo! First time doing that. I probly would have gotten first if I was agianst another 7th grader instead of that one 8th grader that got 1st.

I don't even know what high school I'll go to. Why must parents plane so far ahead! It bothers me. What if I don't get in? Then what?

Aja (aja), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:35 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm talking Austin too. It's pretty much bullshit. The average SAT is sub-1200 (or was when I was applying for schools), and there's nothing unbelievably impressive in the undergrad programs.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:37 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i wouldn't worry about it, not yet anyway. plus you have berkeley just across the bay!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:37 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ah, patchouli-stink.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

they go in with brain cells, and lose them from too much pot! (see also hampshire and bennington)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

And Reed.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

My mom was thinking I could go to Berkeley. I don't know. I want to move to Maryland as soon as I can. My dad wanted me to go to George Town. I could go there. Another Catholic school.

Aja (aja), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yer a Johns Hopkins baby then.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:41 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

more indefensible ivy league shit (or, at least, indefensible yale shit): the way they treat employees and grad students trying to unionize. to wit: let's pull out all the stops in busting their nascent union.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:42 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yer a Johns Hopkins baby then.

No. I'm my mom's. Why didn't she just stay in Maryland?

Aja (aja), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:44 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

defend the ivy league: didn't want to go to any of those schools but i hear amusing stories from my roommate's boyfriend at harvard.

defend williams: it's so fun and i really like it and it keeps me from having to do work that actually involves supporting myself financially.

Maria (Maria), Sunday, 7 March 2004 06:53 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

didn't jay macinerney go to williams?

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 06:58 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Dear Tad,

How dare you mention Berkeley!! And you totally omit STANFURD!! BIZARRE. OMG WTF LOL

Leee the Lee (Leee), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:01 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yer a Johns Hopkins baby then.

No. I'm my mom's.

That Johns Hopkins, he's such a masher!

Leee the Lee (Leee), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:03 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

stanford lost today! fuckers

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:04 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

leee: yer right. stanford should also be razed to the ground, not the least reason for being the place that shat william rehnquist out into the world.

i also exempt maria from extermination :-)

james, this is SO yer thread!! shall we also add Emory to the shitlist?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:05 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i prefer to focus my ire completely at the ivy league

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:10 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

FUCK THE IVY LEAGUE

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

:-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

CONDI RICE

Leee the Lee (Leee), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:31 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

(her, too!)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:35 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I went to high school in semi-rural Oregon, a place no one knew about, and worked my fucking ass off for four years. I was always going to apply to University of Oregon, but on a whim I applied to Harvard and Yale and Johns Hopkins, and got into all three. Because U. of Oregon was giving out nothing for scholarships back then in the fading Reagan economy, we would have had a hard time even sending me there. But the need-blind admissions policy of the Ivy Schools meant that it was possible (through scholarships, grants, a shitload of loans, and a LOT of on-campus work every week) for me to go to college at Harvard.

There, I met people who were really fucking rich and people who were way poorer than my family ever was--even my mom's family, and she grew up in the Mission Projects in San Francisco with gangs and shit. At Harvard I met people who didn't look like me or talk like me for pretty much the first time, and danced and drank with them and kissed them when they let me. We protested for living wages and we got Harvard to divest from South Africa by building a shantytown in the middle of the yard and inviting Jesse Jackson to come rip it up in front of the dean. I worked my ass off there, too, and met a lot of good friends, and married one of them. And we don't sit around swilling cognac and sneering at anyone else's diplomas; ours are in the basement or something, unframed, just pieces of paper.

I don't think that going to Harvard was the greatest damned thing I ever did in this world, and I know people who are doing a shitload better than I ever will who did NOT go to a big fancy-sounding school. And yeah, the shit ain't perfect. But come on.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:44 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

no way haikunym! somebody's gotta pay for jay fiedler!

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

okay, that's a good point. yeah, fuck the Ivy league.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

aj feely will avenge us all!

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:52 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

naw it's all about my homey don sweeney, H class of '88 just like me:
http://www.neutralzonehockey.com/photos/sweeney2.jpg
damn our team was good, we had a korean enforcer named rob ohno!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 7 March 2004 07:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

http://www.yale.edu/images/global/yale_welcome.gif

shortest, gladdest, most expensive years of life...

Skottie, Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ah, the advantage is to watch silly little "plebes" start whole threads discussing how much they shouldn't care about it. You all reek of rejection from an Ivy League institute.

Ivy King, Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:59 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

a dubya-style legacy admit, i see.

Ah, the advantage is to watch silly little "plebes" start whole threads discussing how much they shouldn't care about it.

no, the purpose was to discuss why us "silly little plebes" should not BURN DOWN every ivy league school and exterminate every ivy leaguer (except for those specifically allowed to live).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 09:03 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yikes. A little strident, no?

Skottie, Sunday, 7 March 2004 09:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Instead of immolating all the ivy leaguers, why not let them run the world instead? Sound fair? Great! No go to your room and pour gasoline on youself! Thanks!

Skottie, Sunday, 7 March 2004 09:13 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Instead of immolating all the ivy leaguers, why not let them run the world instead?

they don't already?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 09:13 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Well, maybe all the world is run by ivy leaguers, but let me assure you that not all ivy leaguers run the world.

Skottie, Sunday, 7 March 2004 09:15 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

only the rich ones.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 7 March 2004 10:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I like the fact that Eisbar etc think he has the option to burn us down, when in fact he's completely helpless in the face of the system we happen to dominate. Honestly man, you can't do shit to change this.

Mediawhore, Sunday, 7 March 2004 11:45 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

milo your dissing of low SAT scores together with the "patchouli" comment truly makes you a man of the people

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 7 March 2004 12:07 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nobody hates Ivy League undergrads more than Ivy League grad students who applied to, but couldn't get into, Ivy League schools as undergraduates. I didn't apply to any Ivy League schools as an undergraduate; I was happy to have been graduated from high school.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Sunday, 7 March 2004 12:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nobody hates Ivy League undergrads more than Ivy League grad students who applied to, but couldn't get into, Ivy League schools as undergraduates.

I think you are forgetting "other Ivy League undergraduates". DO NOT SLEEP ON THE INTERSCHOOL RIVALRIES.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 7 March 2004 13:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Elvis Presley (playing a karate chopping biker who joins the carnival) agrees with you, eisbar:

Hail to thee old ivy league
Poison ivy league
The ra-ra boys are sitting round the table tonight
The ra-ra boys have lots of plans in view
They're gonna have panty raids
And make their own lemonade
They'll live it up just like the big boys do

Poison ivy league, boys in that ivy league
Give me an itch, those sons of the rich
That poison ivy league

The ra-ra boys will go to bed so early tonight
Before exams they need a lot of rest
They gotta make good for dad
They gotta make good so bad
They'll even pay someone to take that test

Poison ivy league, boys in that ivy league
How can they flunk, they're so full of bunk
That poison ivy league

The ra-ra boys are being groomed for business some day
For better things to college they were sent
And you can bet they'll be the head of the company
As long as dear old daddy's president

Poison ivy league, boys in that ivy league
So loaded with cash, they give me a rash
That poison ivy league

So let it be told
I won't touch them with a ten foot pole
That poison Ivy league

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 7 March 2004 13:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I almost went to Northwestern and occasionally wonder at how totally massively different my life would have been. Midwestern State U gave me an enormous scholarship, though, and I was much more into graduating debt-free. I was kind of naive about looking at schools and really thought it was all about quality of education; I never considered that networking is a big part of the more elite schools. Now my position is reversed (maybe unfairly so): I think that you can get a good education no matter where you go if you try hard enough, and that the main benefit of the elite schools is networking. Do you think that's fair?

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nobody hates Ivy League undergrads more than Ivy League grad students who applied to, but couldn't get into, Ivy League schools as undergraduates.

Hahahaha... er.. that's almost true.

Nobody hates Ivy League undergrads more than Ivy League grad students who applied to, but couldn't get intoafford, Ivy League schools as undergraduates.

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:20 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I could have gotten a great education at U of O, or Willamette, or Lewis and Clark, or Reed, or any of the places in-state that my friends went to. I just probably couldn't have afforded it.

I love how Tad thinks my wife and I should die. That's so adorable!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Brown won the first Rose Bowl.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:57 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

It means nothing but the difference between Laughlin and Luke Perry struck me. They were both on foolish programs but Laughlin seemed content to cash the check while Perry wanted to be an actor.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) March 13, 2019

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:52 (two months ago) Permalink

my other main thought about this is that people are still shocked that the millennial generation is having fewer children. having children means subjecting them to this shit

theorizing your yells (katherine), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:10 (two months ago) Permalink

(well, not *always*, but for people who want their children to attend college)

theorizing your yells (katherine), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:11 (two months ago) Permalink

i thought it was because millenials have an absurd amount of student loan debt compared to the relative value of their college educations

sarahell, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:31 (two months ago) Permalink

like, if you compare the inflation of college tuition to the housing market 10 yrs ago, and how the subprime mortgage industry contributed to it ... you can't just abandon your college degree for the bank to take back, or even, refi your student loan debt based on the increased value of your degree ... I feel like it's in this context -- average adults with 6 figures of education debt -- that rich people paying tens of thousands of dollars so that they can pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for their kids' college education is grotesque

sarahell, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:35 (two months ago) Permalink

but back to defending the Ivy League -- the main reason I went to an Ivy League school is that they had the money to give me a scholarship for 1/3 - 1/2 of the tuition whereas my 1st choice school waitlisted me for financial aid.

sarahell, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:38 (two months ago) Permalink

Can't help but hear Brett Kavanaugh's voice ringing out -- "When I got into Yale College, got into Yale Law School. I've worked my a... tail off"

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:39 (two months ago) Permalink

I do kind of wonder just how widespread this sort of out and out bribery is. I never assumed merit, but I usually assumed it was more "playing the game the right way" that got affluent kids into these schools -- juicing up your extracurriculars with stuff that you were half-hearted about, getting an essay coach to heavily edit your essay, tons of SAT tutoring, subject tutoring to get grades up etc. I didn't imagine merit but I imagined there was still some degree of effort and shrewdness involved, not just your parents literally writing a check (outside of a handful of ultra-wealthy donors like Jared Kushner's dad).

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:43 (two months ago) Permalink

It means nothing but the difference between Laughlin and Luke Perry struck me. They were both on foolish programs but Laughlin seemed content to cash the check while Perry wanted to be an actor.
— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) March 13, 2019
― Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 13, 2019 12:52 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I feel dumber after having read that.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:43 (two months ago) Permalink

ya also i'm pretty sure Richard Nixon is dead

sarahell, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:48 (two months ago) Permalink

i thought it was because millenials have an absurd amount of student loan debt compared to the relative value of their college educations

― sarahell, Wednesday, March 13, 2019 1:31 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, yeah, there are a lot of factors (an oft-cited one is climate change) but this certainly does not help

theorizing your yells (katherine), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 18:44 (two months ago) Permalink

could you link to a data supporting the climate change argument? that strikes me as unlikely

k3vin k., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 18:51 (two months ago) Permalink

not sure how useful that data would be, i mean if you're relying on people to just tell you why they're not having kids i would imagine a certain percentage are going to default to the most noble/tragic explanation.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:12 (two months ago) Permalink

that's not to say some people don't genuinely feel that way, I just mean it's a good easy answer if the real answer (as it often is) is something much more complicated and personal.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:15 (two months ago) Permalink

it's a bit too early for there to be any actual studies, but it has been written about: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-children.html

AOC also mentioned it earlier this year: "Our planet is going to hit disaster if we don’t turn this ship around. There’s scientific consensus that the lives of children are going to be very difficult. And it does lead, I think, young people to have a legitimate question: Is it okay to still have children?"

theorizing your yells (katherine), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:21 (two months ago) Permalink

I heard there were celebrity parents involved here, but turns out it was Lori Loughlin and Forgotten Whoozis.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:33 (two months ago) Permalink

if they had died you would still post about them (and the 70s film shorts they were in) in the obit thread

mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:38 (two months ago) Permalink

William H Macy also apparently involved though not named in the complaint.

o. nate, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 20:08 (two months ago) Permalink

typical Frank Gallagher

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 20:28 (two months ago) Permalink

Also, if you're a well-connected person at a school like Yale, you are going to have the opportunity to ride the coattails of other well-connected people into ventures with a possible upside of well over six to seven figures.

fuck all these schools and their connections, burn them shits to the ground

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 20:31 (two months ago) Permalink

lol

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 20:42 (two months ago) Permalink

it's a bit too early for there to be any actual studies, but it has been written about: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/climate/climate-change-children.html

AOC also mentioned it earlier this year: "Our planet is going to hit disaster if we don’t turn this ship around. There’s scientific consensus that the lives of children are going to be very difficult. And it does lead, I think, young people to have a legitimate question: Is it okay to still have children?"

― theorizing your yells (katherine), Wednesday, March 13, 2019 3:21 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks. I’m not very convinced this has much to do with the trends we’ve been seeing over the past couple of decades, at least compared to things like widespread access to birth control, student loan debt, and people marrying later (which of course could be related to the above)
also as evol alludes to, philosophical opposition to having kids has a long history, and this may just be the latest reason for it

k3vin k., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 20:52 (two months ago) Permalink

Uh

OMG: “My daughter and a group of students left for spring break prior to the government's announcement yesterday. Once we became aware of the investigation, the young woman decided it would be in her best interests to return home.” https://t.co/1GHMMlKABA

— Matt Pearce 🦅 (@mattdpearce) March 13, 2019

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 23:37 (two months ago) Permalink

sprang braaaaaaaaaake

j., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 23:56 (two months ago) Permalink

if they had died you would still post about them (and the 70s film shorts they were in) in the obit thread

Given that Lori Loughlin's most prestigious credit was Full House, you may be lil bit off there mook

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 March 2019 01:22 (two months ago) Permalink

William H Macy also apparently involved though not named in the complaint.


He appears in the documents but not indicted bec he didn't want to go through with it. His wife is guilty though.

nathom, Thursday, 14 March 2019 07:21 (two months ago) Permalink

That seems a very favorable reading of the evidence. But yeah they didn’t have enough to charge him.

o. nate, Thursday, 14 March 2019 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

when I was a TA at a uni famous for football I taught a class of football players & one guy who literally was "heir to a popular processed-meat company’s fortune" was in the class. he'd been given a football scholarship at this uni, & I don't think he ever played a down in his 4 years. always figured it was this kind of bullshit. one weekend during the class (it was during the summer) this guy flew the whole football team to his dad's mansion in arizona or whatever for a giant party. I think they ate a ton of canned chili.

L'assie (Euler), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:21 (two months ago) Permalink

one thing that's pretty fucked up is it seems like most of these kids had no idea what their parents were doing, so now they have to deal with the possibility that they'll be expelled from the schools they were accepted to, and the ones who aren't at least have to deal with public humiliation at having been accepted illegitimately. And they'll be labeled as cheaters even though with few exceptions they were not privy to the cheating done on their behalf. I do feel bad for most of them. Though not super bad for the Loughlin/Mossimo scion, tbh.

omar little, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:02 (two months ago) Permalink

I do think the reporting around this has done a good job of painting the parents as the monsters over the students, with the glaring and well-deserved exception of Loughlin's daughter

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:37 (two months ago) Permalink

well them and this guy:

Son defends parents caught in college admissions scandal while smoking blunt https://t.co/4zD4EdKM5q pic.twitter.com/rYC05uGRdt

— New York Post (@nypost) March 14, 2019

theorizing your yells (katherine), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:38 (two months ago) Permalink

"no idea" is a stretch. many of the shady activities required the kids' participation.

to the extent that they'd have "no idea" that e.g. collaborating with friendly doctors to support a disability diagnosis allowing for extra time or unorthodox proctoring it's bc so many privileged families are doing this already but stopping sort of changing answers or submitting someone else's test.

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:39 (two months ago) Permalink

"son, we need to have a talk. our family has been implicated in a massive college admissions cheating scandal the likes of which have not been publicized in decades, but one where it's theoretically possible the kids can mostly escape blame. so, what I need you to do is go out and be as unsympathetic as humanly possible. do you think you can do that for us?"

theorizing your yells (katherine), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:39 (two months ago) Permalink

omg lol at that dude, wow

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:41 (two months ago) Permalink

xp -- at least for the cases where the proctors changed the kids' scores, I've seen a couple of arguments along the lines of "of course the kids knew when they got a SAT score 400 points higher than the last one," which doesn't make sense to me at all. have people never taken an exam, walked out of the room being utterly convinced they flunked it, and then found out they got an A? or have people never just straight-up guessed on a multiple-choice test and found out they guessed correctly?

theorizing your yells (katherine), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:42 (two months ago) Permalink

The toker, who sports a ponytail and raps under the name “Billa,” then shamelessly plugged his music. “Check out my CD, ‘Cheese and Crackers,’ ” he said of his 2018 five-track rec­ord that includes a song titled “If I Lost My Money.”

jmm, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:43 (two months ago) Permalink

xp: Agreed, also some of these kids seem to have been actively studying for these tests, so an improvement in scores would have been interpreted by them as validation that their studying paid off.

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:44 (two months ago) Permalink

Also, if you're a well-connected person at a school like Yale, you are going to have the opportunity to ride the coattails of other well-connected people into ventures with a possible upside of well over six to seven figures.

I will freely admit that I don't really understand the world of 'connections' but I was figuring that:

i) the kids of wealthy celebrities already have a lot of connections by virtue of being the children of celebrities and

ii) the kinds of Yale connections that would lead to starting up or being invited to join seven-figure ventures would still require you to be, idk, pretty good at what you were studying at Yale.

But yeah, clearly not a world I get.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:53 (two months ago) Permalink

Although now, when I put i) and ii) together, I realize you probably mean that competent go-getters at Ivies may well want to associate themselves with children of the rich and famous because of their names.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:55 (two months ago) Permalink

I think there are probably very few kids who were not in on it, and I am not going to feel bad about these Richie Riches when this will likely have exactly zero effect on their future life prospects.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:58 (two months ago) Permalink

xp: ding ding ding

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 14 March 2019 19:01 (two months ago) Permalink

I think they ate a ton of canned chili

thank you for this

j., Thursday, 14 March 2019 19:05 (two months ago) Permalink

i used this story in a class today to talk about financial fraud, it was wild, students have all kinds of shit to say about it

j., Thursday, 14 March 2019 19:07 (two months ago) Permalink

I do think the reporting around this has done a good job of painting the parents as the monsters over the students, with the glaring and well-deserved exception of Loughlin's daughter


Well, the media didn't need to paint her badly. They just needed to direct its readers to her youtube channel.

nathom, Thursday, 14 March 2019 20:46 (two months ago) Permalink

j., you can become an influencer on ig --
"shit my students say"

John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, Thursday, 14 March 2019 20:47 (two months ago) Permalink

Also had a girl in our shop. She was saying she just finished a year at Oxford. I asked which uni she attended in the US. She was sort of shy saying:"Oh Brown." I replied:"Don't be shy! You should be proud of it." She said she was trembling when she read ab the scam. Dunno if it was bec her parents bought her way into Brown. Lol.

nathom, Thursday, 14 March 2019 20:56 (two months ago) Permalink

or because she didn't know whether they did!!!

j., Thursday, 14 March 2019 21:56 (two months ago) Permalink

things that cause me to tremble: 1) pondering how they crucified my lord. 2) pondering how they laid him in a tomb. 3) pondering how admittance into Brown University isn't validation of one's life.

say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 14 March 2019 22:20 (two months ago) Permalink

Apparently this investigation was kicked off by a finance dude who was under investigation by the SEC for pumping/dumping stock - when caught he flipped on the Yale woman's soccer coach who was taking bribes.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-yale-dad-who-set-off-the-college-admissions-scandal-11552588402

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 15 March 2019 06:28 (two months ago) Permalink


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