Bill Clinton: Classic or Dud?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Charisma; terrible loveability; corny rhetoric; doggedness and fortune. And that spouse of his. But hey, I think she deserves a thread of her own.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

For destroying welfare and sucking the cocks of corpartions : DUD !
For beddign the interns and being proably the most intelligent president since Jefferson Classic

anthony, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

The Arkansaw Chugabug gets null points from me for his death penalties and for Leonard Peltier (and the others). Corrupt wanker, but presumably a charming intelligent fella to pub with or suck off.

chris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Funny how it's only lefties attacking him here. Don't rightwing cockfarmers hate him too? That's enough to make me love him.

The Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Me also, Vicar.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

yeah - but apart from jack - where did my skull go - K, who else as a president had thier cigar-utilising techiniques talked about so much. W's funnnier, but he's also scarier - and as to ronny, I just like to sit back and smile when I think of him throwing faeces at nancy - happy 4th july folks

Geoff, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Yes, he's scarier; no, he's not funnier. One of the great things about Bill C was that he was (is?) hilarious.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

intelligent presidents = crap, jefferson while a great statesman was a rubbish president having his only significant accomplishment (louisiana purchase) foisted on him, carter was allegedly a genius (nuclear engineer and all) but he was a disaster as president, clinton was the most ineffectual president since coolidge or maybe bush sr. republicans have been denigrated as morons since eisenhower.

keith, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

That's an interesting point - so the reason Adlai Stevenson couldn't even get elected was he was the most intelligent man who ever lived.

The Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Now that I think of it, didn't Barry Goldwater have the rep for being super brainy too?

The Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Was Wilson supposed to be pretty sharp?

Josh, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

A dreadful, dreadful president, leaving the country wide open for Dubya - once his brother had fixed the election - to lead the US deep into the nineteenth century (with 23th century population levels). On the other hand: just about the coolest man alive. Wouldn't you want to go to a party where Bill Clinton was

Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

How would I expect to get any chicks, then?

Josh, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Don't think I understand the point re. Clinton leaving the way open for W: he beat the Republicans twice running, which is hard to do. UNLESS you mean: his policies were right-wing, so his right-wing successor effectively just continues them. (That's not exactly true, is it?)

the pinefox, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Bill Clinton is classic, if only because he's the supa mack daddy.

I hear he's also hit with the ladies...

Dan Perry, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I mean its a fine argument and all that Carter was a brainy president because he was a nuclear engineer - until you note that Homer Simpson is a nuclear engineer. Doh!

Pete, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

I still love Bill.

the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 25 September 2002 20:41 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

he was great on letterman a couple weeks ago.

boxcubed (boxcubed), Wednesday, 25 September 2002 22:20 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

This thread should be revived.

Clinton is looking better and better every day, no? Best President we had since Truman if you ask me.

Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 06:15 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

CLASSIC most definately.

donna (donna), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 06:21 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

i knew tad had revived this thread before i even opened it!!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 06:26 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Tad: as you know, I consider you OTM

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 October 2002 13:25 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

anyone who thinks he's a dud, consider: if presidents were allowed a third term, he would have won, wouldn't he? and if he'd won, how different things would surely now be...

or is this wishful thinking?

jon (jon), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 13:46 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Just because he might have won doesn't mean he's any less of a dud. It might start a new thread though - the American electorate - C/D?

Personally, for all his qualities, it comes down to this - he deliberately had people killed for electoral advantage. Ricky Ray Rector was crying out for clemency, but Bill didn't want to have a Willie Horton situation on his hands, so Ricky fried.

I'm sure you could argue that Clinton saw that he was better able to help people and put his values and those of the Democratic Party into practice as President, so Ricky was an expedient measure for a greater good. But that's how Clinton kept getting away with ever more outrageous stunts, as they all justified on the basis of something greater. Eventually, that boiled down to simple fear of the alternative.

The Labour Party use the same trick; no matter how bad we are, we're not the Tories. Sorry. Doesn't work anymore. I know you're better than the Tories and I take it as a given. It's the baseline, not the high point of ideological difference. I want to believe something positive, rather than using the same old fear of the right-wing bogeyman to, er, do much of the same things the right-wing bogeymen would have themselves done.

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 13:57 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

but haven't things changed? Nowadays, I'm actually more concerned about having leaders that will help us avoid World War III than whether their home policies are 'soft left' or 'hard left' .

jon (jon), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 14:41 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

If the question is 'in the light of Dubya, Bill Clinton C/D?' then I'm bound to feel he's more classic than a straight 'BC C/D?'. However, that very opposition is what I find really annoying with the 90s generation of left politicians; as they move to the right, they justify their movement by saying 'the other's guy worse'. I'm just sick of the agenda being pulled in that direction by the right, and I want to support someone becuase they inspire me and they'd be better because of the things they do, rather than they'll do less bad shit than the other guy.

Even then, Clinton wasn't backwards at coming forwards when it came to indiscriminate use of US Military power on the developing world. Admittedly, I think he'd baulk at starting WW3, but again, he's only be less bad here, not 'better' than Dubya. Though if better means no WW3, then that's an important difference I'll admit.

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 9 October 2002 14:50 (sixteen years ago) Permalink


Clearly Dave B is making a good, indignant point. It doesn't stop me feeling that Clinton's classic - that's kind of a personal thing for me. I can't forget his wife, either.

A different question might be: what did Clinton achieve that was progressive? (*Apart from* just keeping Republicans out of the WH for 8 years: not a small achievement, and one reason, I think, why Tad and I like him so).

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 October 2002 20:11 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
he did good things for unions by loading the NLRB with good people

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 29 May 2004 07:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Completely useless in and of himself. Welfare reform, 'don't ask don't tell' Sudan/Serbia/Iraq bombings, sanctions, tech bubble, declining real wages, increasing wage gap, etc.

Judged against Dubya, he's a half-step behind FDR.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 29 May 2004 07:49 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Clinton blew up fewer countries than the Republicans either side of him. But if I were Clinton and I were surrounded by Bushes, I'd be a bit distracted too.

Pack Yr Romantic Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 29 May 2004 07:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"being proably the most intelligent president since Jefferson"

How on earth would you know that?

For wasting so many years of his presidency on scandal management, because he couldn't keep his penis in his pants, DUD.

For marring a strong 8 year span of Democratic presidency by not keeping his penis in his pants, DUD.

For fueling the 'culture wars', DUD.

What a waste of talent (his and anyone who worked for him).

Debito (Debito), Saturday, 29 May 2004 07:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

He blew up the same number of countries as the Republicans either side of him (actually, I believe he launched attacks on more nations - Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Serbia, am I missing any?). He just didn't blow them up as much.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 29 May 2004 08:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Somalia, Haiti (?)

Chris H. (chrisherbert), Saturday, 29 May 2004 09:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I am not sure how Clinton fuelled The Culture Wars. Weren't they a conservative invention?

I think we did not have them in the UK.

the bellefox, Saturday, 29 May 2004 12:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i should say, 'he gave fuel to the culture wars'

Debito (Debito), Saturday, 29 May 2004 12:48 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

this culture war shit pisses me off. like bush saying that "elites" would disagree with the notion of the US as a nation-builder spreading its own brand of democracy throughout the world. "Elites?" When did fucking elite become a bad word???

kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 29 May 2004 18:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Well, the Republicans already used up "liberal" as cuss word. Even they noticed they were sounding like broken records.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 29 May 2004 19:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
do any of you guys know how Bill's friendship with Canada's Belinda Stronach is making waves?

696, Friday, 11 May 2007 19:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i would have close friendship will all this lantern jawed former tories

gff, Friday, 11 May 2007 19:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Wow. Rereading all the Bush stuff upthread I assumed it was written after 9-11!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 11 May 2007 20:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

‘The evil represented in this museum is incontestable. But as we are its witness, so must we remain its adversary in the world in which we live. So we must stop the fabricators of history and the bullies as well. Left unchallenged, they would still prey upon the powerless; and we must not permit that to happen again.’

That speech - at the opening the holocaust museum - pretty much sums up both why i like Clinton and don't like him. He's intelligent and articulate and charismatic and everything, and obviously a million times better than the current bunch, but his administration was all talk no action. complete pussy. spent his first term getting reelected, making speeches like that, and then did nothing about rwanda. rwanda is why i don't like him.

Uptoeleven, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Let's not forget that he didn't have a congress willing to work with him at all. CF republicans not even willing to go to the table to talk health care

JW, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"I would have to vote classic."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1170000/images/_1171955_marcrich300.jpg

gershy, Sunday, 13 May 2007 19:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Cockburn:

The Clintons have always excited passions disproportionate to their very modest talents as creative politicians. Looking back across the Nineties at the frenzied Republican onslaughts on the couple, one can only wag one's head in bemusement at the Right's hysteria. Why did they consume so much energy in savaging a pair who had learned conclusively from their earlier upsets in Arkansas that you don't get ahead by offending the powerful, starting with the timber and chicken barons who controlled that backward and impoverished state?

To be fair on Bill and Hillary, beyond some ritual freshets of campaign rhetoric in primary season they have never advertised themselves as anything other than reliable guardians of the basic Business Round Table agenda that defines the programmatic vision of 99.9 per cent of all American politicians....

No one has yet written particularly well about the Clintons, probably because the appropriate tone--Mencken's comic savagery--was devalued by Bill's assailants on the right. Obsessed by Bush, the liberals cannot see Clinton for the light-weight scoundrel he was and have reinvented his terms in the White House as a golden age, whose possible sequel under the aegis of President Hillary Clinton they eagerly await.

http://counterpunch.org/cockburn09292007.html

Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:40 (eleven years ago) Permalink

had to check the date on that

gff, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Alex Cockburn doesn't like the clintons, part 235

kingfish, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:47 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Cockpunch

milo z, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 20:48 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the Clintons WERE tailor-made for Mencken though.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 21:28 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the hilliad will go down near the top all-time in the annals of first gentlemen nomination speeches i would bet. i didn't know he still had it in him, and judging by those shaking hands there may not be much left. but you go billy boy!

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 27 July 2016 19:18 (two years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

I've admittedly been feeling a particular kind of disillusioned rage about Bill Clinton lately that can come only from realizing that your parents' basis for loving a politician, and presenting him to you as a great and benevolent figure, boiled down to being of the same generation, being in awe of his charisma, and sharing an enjoyment of Fleetwood Mac. This hollow, opportunistic fucking rapist is the political hero of my parents' generation and it just speaks to how empty our politics got in the past several decades.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 14:20 (two years ago) Permalink

tbh he probably only liked one Fleetwood Mac tune

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 14:21 (two years ago) Permalink

Not going to stan for this education factory mogul but the article says his company "has purchased financially struggling colleges and vocational schools and improved management while boosting profits through expanding enrollment." Which doesn't exactly make him Snidely Whiplash?

"Laureate’s campuses are fully accredited and offer graduating students valid diplomas. Compared with other universities, including its for-profit competitors, Laureate has a relatively low percentage of students who default on their loans, seen as an indicator of student financial success after graduation. A 2012 Senate report on for-profit colleges said that Laureate’s flagship U.S. school, Walden University, was the best of 30 campuses studied and that students there generally 'fared well.'"

Annnnd soooo... ??

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 15:56 (two years ago) Permalink

Hang on are these reporters insinuating that a corporation has secured a Big Name to sit on their board act as honorary chancellor do next to nothing in order to boost its profile???

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 15:58 (two years ago) Permalink

Laureate have their issues but they are not egregiously awful. The main problems are one-size-fits-all education programmes and limited teacher engagement. They're better than some others in the sector. Getting Clinton in to sprinkle stardust on generic factory learning is probably more undignified than corrupt - particularly in comparison to Blair advising dictators on post-massacre reputation management.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:03 (two years ago) Permalink

A corporation whose revenue is mostly international getting the husband of the secretary of state to sit on the board though -- their main gig is taking over colleges in Latin America.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:15 (two years ago) Permalink

when Clinton went to Azerbaijan to set up bent megabucks mineral deals and sprinkle some of that stardust on crooked despot Aliyev, Hilary was abusing her position. I know it is probably old but I just find it incredible how shamelessly bent they are and how they keep getting away with it.

calzino, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:20 (two years ago) Permalink

I've admittedly been feeling a particular kind of disillusioned rage about Bill Clinton lately that can come only from realizing that your parents' basis for loving a politician, and presenting him to you as a great and benevolent figure, boiled down to being of the same generation, being in awe of his charisma, and sharing an enjoyment of Fleetwood Mac. This hollow, opportunistic fucking rapist is the political hero of my parents' generation and it just speaks to how empty our politics got in the past several decades.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, September 6, 2016 10:20 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, though i had the exact opposite experience: my parents loathed Clinton, and i never really understood why until fairly recently. so he committed perjury about a blowjob, so what? the real stuff just isn't as sexy... they're shamelessly opportunistic and have made a lot of money for career politicians. politicians don't make a super good living. the thing that stuck with me was the hypocrisy of accepting millions of dollars from Saudi Arabia for the Clinton Foundation.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:29 (two years ago) Permalink

AND hillary's silencing of bill's mistresses/victims...

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:29 (two years ago) Permalink

Azerbaijan is a much more clear cut example of bad practice imo.

The State Dept has a negligible role in influencing foreign higher education policy AFAIK. Laureate's ability to throw money into investment is the critical factor in why they have been able to expand so rapidly. It hasn't protected them from criticism either.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:38 (two years ago) Permalink

I detest him and his oleaginous un-charm. I don't care about "liking" or "trusting" presidents, but Obama's coolness and indifference to both things is his best trait as prez.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:39 (two years ago) Permalink

The thing about the Clinton Foundation is that in order for there to be "corruption" there, there has to be a basis to believe that there's anything being done with the money other than charity. Getting a donation from Saudi Arabia and using it to build schools or buy AIDS medications or whatever doesn't exactly reek. But the info about the foundation is all over the map, even ignoring right wing sources, from the Sunlight Foundation claiming it is a "slush fund" for the Clintons, to other articles saying their percentage of spending on legit charity is relatively high, to claims about boondoggle spending in Haiti going to connected contractors and not actually benefitting anyone.

I think what makes me most uncomfortable with the Clintons is the seemingly constant blurring of the lines between the foundation and global initiative and the Clinton's political activities and their friends' business activities, with so many of the same people of their circle involved with all of the above. For example Huma Abedin simultaneously having a part-time role with Clinton at State while also getting a salary from the Clinton Foundation, working for Douglas Band's consulting company AND working as Hillary Clinton's personal assistant.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:43 (two years ago) Permalink

yet she wasn't being paid a salary + bennies to stay married to Weiner. Weird.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:47 (two years ago) Permalink

Obama's coolness and indifference to both things is his best trait as prez.

agreed

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Croc0idVIAAbCMO.jpg

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:47 (two years ago) Permalink

Same for the Gates Foundation. I don't have much of an issue with companies like Laureate offering a commercial alternative to established domestic universities but it gets pretty fishy when corporate charity promotes the privatisation of primary education in the guise of benevolence, like with Bridge.

Xps

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:49 (two years ago) Permalink

he needs a cigarette in his right hand imo

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:51 (two years ago) Permalink

in love with the all black everything w/ white shoes look. been doing that for years myself

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:05 (two years ago) Permalink

yet she wasn't being paid a salary + bennies to stay married to Weiner. Weird.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:47 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when you have one really bad job, the other jobs seem a little better

dr. mercurio arboria (mh 😏), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:10 (two years ago) Permalink

that obama photo showed up in my timeline with the caption "listens to Skepta once"

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 6 September 2016 18:00 (two years ago) Permalink

lol i saw "Goes to Berghain once" and "Obama looking like a guy that only texts you after 2am"

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 18:25 (two years ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

@tinyrevolution
It's hard to believe now, but long long ago Bill Clinton was considered to be good at politics

http://nypost.com/2016/10/04/bill-clinton-slams-obamacare-as-craziest-thing-in-the-world/

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a49240/bill-clinton-obamacare/

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 October 2016 20:55 (two years ago) Permalink

You beat me to it.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 October 2016 21:04 (two years ago) Permalink

to be honest, he's not entirely wrong. There's a gap where you get fucked pretty hard by lack of subsidy and the price increases of healthcare plans. I'm not sure it effects that many people but it kills me.

Third year in a row of paying $4500ish for zero benefit as a small business owner or ~12% of my take-home each year. Each year I've had a $5500 deductible and used a couple hundred of it. As a small business owner, the idea that it protects me from major health events is questionable - if I'm in the hospital or out of work for more than a few days I'm fucked no matter what. Good luck to the hospital getting me to pay $5500 or $55000. I could save $50/month for an even more useless bronze plan but that seems even more insane.

I think I'm going to roll the dice next year and pay the penalty. It makes more sense to put the excess (3400ish) into a Roth IRA so that I have some 'retirement' savings at the ages where medical issues become more likely.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 5 October 2016 15:48 (two years ago) Permalink

he is definitely not entirely wrong. He's describing my situation (employer plan costs have skyrocketed on all three fronts -- premiums, co-pays and deductible), and a lot of people I know on exchange plans can't really afford to use them. MY PORTION of my employer plan is now something like $1200/month for my family, with $50/$70 copays and I think a $4000 deductible that I so far have barely touched.

What Bill is doing politically is another question. Maybe he's trying to signal to people fed up with Obamacare, but it's not clear what he's signaling since Hillary is basically campaigning on just tweaking/improving Obamacare.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 5 October 2016 15:53 (two years ago) Permalink

oh, even Pierce says he's mostly right.

dumb politics tho -- "craziest thing ever" soundbite -- and that's all that matters.

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 October 2016 15:53 (two years ago) Permalink

i doubt the Trumpies have the wherewithal to exploit it, however

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 October 2016 15:55 (two years ago) Permalink

Just to be fair, the original ACA bill anticipated that there would be an initial surge of sick people buying insurance while the healthier people would enter the system more slowly until the tax penalties for non-participation grew enough to make it too painful to refuse to buy insurance. To offset this predictable problem the ACA projected subsidies to the insurance companies, similar to its subsidies to states for their new Medicaid recipients.

The difficulty has been that subsequent republican-controlled Congresses have deliberately underfunded those subsidies by a large amount, so that the insurance companies, which had set their pricing according to the original subsidies, have been forced to make up the shortfall by raising premiums rapidly. This makes the system unstable, allowing the Republicans to point at the problems they've caused and say the ACA is a disaster.

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Wednesday, 5 October 2016 16:34 (two years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

Clinton is doing an impression of the Clinton from the Simpson where Kodos takes over his body pic.twitter.com/dZQHu49k0F

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) December 4, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 December 2017 12:56 (one year ago) Permalink

to be clear this means nothing. Really read it and soak in how wholly vacuous and silly this is. pic.twitter.com/Qgh5uCRVzz

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) December 4, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 December 2017 12:57 (one year ago) Permalink

six months pass...

Holy shit was that colbert interview a joke (unsurprisingly). hearing clinton support the me too movement felt smug af

Slippage (Ross), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 14:27 (nine months ago) Permalink

Highly recommend the Chapo discussion of his new "spy thriller," just unreal

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 14:35 (nine months ago) Permalink

Nice will do

Slippage (Ross), Wednesday, 13 June 2018 22:26 (nine months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

Didn't want to bring this up in the SCOTUS or politics thread because they don't deserve to be derailed, but there are a lot of weird resonances between the Kavanaugh hearings and Clinton, particularly because Kavanaugh was involved in pursuing Clinton in one of the most nakedly cynical political maneuvers in modern memory, and yet at the same time, Clinton is probably a rapist and democrats gave him a complete pass at the time and most decidedly did not "believe women," and he's never been forced to reckon with any of that.

The one thing I will say is that I think the democrats would react very differently to Clinton if it were today, whereas the Republicans have not evolved one bit.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 28 September 2018 15:37 (five months ago) Permalink

democrats gave him a complete pass at the time

you mean Democrats like Joe Lieberman?

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 15:44 (five months ago) Permalink

New series of Slow Burn seems even-handed and is intriguing for those of us perhaps too young to dig what was happening at the time. And like the Nixon series, lots of resonances with what's happening today.

canary christ (stevie), Friday, 28 September 2018 15:46 (five months ago) Permalink

whoah I take that back I thought Lieberman had been the lone Dem "guilty" vote in the Senate but apparently I was wrong. huh.

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 15:53 (five months ago) Permalink

I'm also thinking of the complete failure to take Broadrick seriously. I don't remember who specifically went on the record about it in terms of politicians, but certainly in liberal/democratic circles in general my memory is that she was dismissed.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 28 September 2018 16:12 (five months ago) Permalink

I don't entirely disagree with your analysis but I think it's expressed in maybe overly dramatic terms. He did have *some* reckoning with it - I mean he was impeached and it's haunted his career ever since, including his wife's career, and he got called out on it by a sitting Senator fairly recently for ex. It's true he's not as much of a pariah in the Democratic party as he probably should be. I don't know who in the party genuinely likes him at this point, he's clearly become an albatross as the years have passed, and yet they can't seem to fully reject his "star-power" or whatever.

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:20 (five months ago) Permalink

I mean, he's not just "not a pariah," he was a major power broker in the party at least until fairly recently -- hard to say whether it was the Obama victory or the Trump victory that finally diminished his status, but it continued well after he was president. People of my parents' generation still seem to carry the idea that he was wrongfully accused.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 28 September 2018 16:22 (five months ago) Permalink

Hillary's loss severely damaged her and Bill's standing in the party. And trends in the party are moving very far away from their policies and legacies so I don't think there's going to be any comeback either. Probably some handwringing when they die about their squandered potential.

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:24 (five months ago) Permalink

People of my parents' generation still seem to carry the idea that he was wrongfully accused.

I don't think this is the case w my parents but yeah ugh boomers

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:25 (five months ago) Permalink

So are you saying that means it didn't happen or that it doesn't matter because she's a bad person.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 28 September 2018 16:41 (five months ago) Permalink

not saying either of those things? it just popped up in my newsfeed, so you're not the only one seeing the parallels/differences

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:43 (five months ago) Permalink

Broaddrick's story strikes me as extremely credible fwiw

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:44 (five months ago) Permalink

at the same time, her position about Dr. Ford is a mixture of predictable and gross

Οὖτις, Friday, 28 September 2018 16:45 (five months ago) Permalink

yeah I think it's gross too but I found her story very credible when I finally gave it a chance a few years ago. And his pattern of behavior is supported by other women.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 28 September 2018 16:47 (five months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/politics/white-house-government-shutdown.html

Lengthy shutdowns can be disastrous for the White House for other reasons.

The last time a shutdown went on for this long, President Bill Clinton put himself on the long road to impeachment when he courted a young intern named Monica Lewinsky in an empty corner of the West Wing. Nonessential employees had been sent home, unpaid interns were brought in to work, and the rest is bitter history.

The Obama administration barred interns from coming to work during a shutdown, and the Trump White House’s new class of interns has not yet started, according to a senior official.

omg

j., Friday, 11 January 2019 03:12 (two months ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.