Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time Out anymore.

1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);

2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know) JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd- pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way (that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what have you).

It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang their heads in shame.

A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing? Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.

I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson. There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people who know what they think about him already know it all and would just send in superlatives.

What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)

What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.

I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover (and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality stories day in day out though.

I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces, come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young. Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even glib - to call someone glib.)

Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes? How could I forget David Lacey?

BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to look aged and thus wise.

I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has been particularly helpful lately... ;-)

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

"today"

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

It went downhill after I left.

or were you PUSHED?

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/thesportsdesk/images/200607/20060707henrydive_derblog.jpg

xp

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

i couldn't agree less

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

because you're cold xp

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

https://eoinhiggins.substack.com/p/the-guardian-tries-to-intimidate

xp

it was the quick crossword and kakuru puzzle on the back page of G2 that had me still occasionally buying the print edition, but this was before they became transphobia central and the MI5 house paper.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/oct/12/state-of-terror-by-hillary-rodham-clinton-and-louise-penny-review-politics-and-patriotism

Fawning review of Hillary Clinton's new airport thriller about "President Dumb" pulling out of the Iran deal.

Why do pols do this shit? Her husband has a couple out, too. Imagine Bernie or Corbyn putting out a ghostwritten thriller abt a leftist candidate getting fucked over by the right wing of their party, the clowning would never end.

i know its so undignified

https://i0.wp.com/www.booklovers.co.uk/Images/BookScans/162311.jpg

the Bennite Labour MP Brian Sedgemore wrote a couple of political thrillers back in the day, can't think of any other leftish politicians who have done this unless you count Chris Mullin who is probably better known as a writer than an MP

i stood behind him in a shop once, he was very tall

and now he's dead

coincidence?

'don't be tall in front of me!'

You've got to go back a bit...

https://www.bookword.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/639-EW-covers-768x935.jpg

Quite enjoyed the hammering Rachel Cooke received from BTL commentators for this 'peak Guardian':

Worried about waste and having too much ‘stuff’? Get rid of the fitted kitchen

what kitchens? "I often put a joint in our coal hole" - WHAT?!

The rarest of all things, a good Observer opinion piece.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/14/fortress-europe-violent-pushbacks-exploit-people-pursue-policy

has (old-school RCP and spiked! alum) kenan malik managed to circle back to being more or less ok?

I wouldn’t necessarily go that far but a lot of his pieces on migration are decent.

I think he wrote something pretty stupid and malicious very recently about trans people or free speech or something can't remember, all these people are the disingenuous monkey to me

Won't somebody think about the 5-star hoteliers?? Had to double-check that this wasn't in fact in the Times or Telegraph.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/22/cheap-food-drink-accommodation-hotelier-life-without-eu-workers

The au pair agency article in that series is also “peak Guardian” in tone:

For families who employ au pairs, one of the benefits is having a (hopefully) fun person around to give their children an insight into another country and language. Another is having someone to help with childcare without having to pay the larger salary of a nanny.

that grand hotel overlooking Fistral beach is a beautiful building but you could probably rent out a decent little bungalow 5 mins up the road for a much cheaper and better holiday imo. Well that's what I did a few times.

Also much less likely to be transformed into a mouse by Angelica Houston and her covention of witches.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/23/my-pandemic-puppy-is-ruining-my-hot-vax-summer

lmao that is another peak guardian pile of piffle

'here's something you busy bees should find relatable!'

I know that many people, like me, already think that Marina Hyde is a bad reactionary.

But even so, I am surprised at the level plumbed by this particular, latest, column. Astonishingly poor in quality, in insight, in ethical and political values.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/26/britain-mp-vote-nick-fletcher-doctor-who-jon-trickett

Shameful.

Boris Johnson's CBI speech was nowhere near as depressingly bad and awful as Starmer's was. Even the director general of the CBI thinks Starmer is full of shit.

but yeah Hyde is fucking awful (again)

"the alternative is facing up to the bald reality that people actually preferred THIS GUY to his guy"

why not just say the UK electorate are mostly fucking awful and have been awful for decades, and in a FPTP system with the Graun demonising the LOTO on a daily basis it wasn't that hard for them to revert to type.

.. and awful to succeed again

I don't expect an arsehole like Hyde to go into the People's Vote stitch-up that completely fucked Corbyn in 2019. But let's not try to pass oneself off as a very smart and droll arch-cynic who knows what is going on, which is allegedly her brand.

It's not like Trickett wrote a think-piece about it either, just a one sentence tweet that was more about highlighting the hollowed out husk of the NHS that is now on the brink of being hollowed out even more by big US healthcare companies.

The Beatles were like aliens from the future in 1969 - and they are still as radical today
Jonathan Freedland

vicarious memories from a complete dickhead who was born in '67

To be fair, "Octopus's Garden" might have sounded radical to a 2 year old.

it sounded nice! we would be warm / below the storm / in our little hideaway / beneath the waves!!

i was a bit older than two tho

horribly ancient uglies who only existed on scratchy old ex-jukebox 45's is my memory of them and unfortunately I'm not that much younger than him. Anyway they weren't radical and they were fucking shite!

that army fetishizing wankfest was bad enough, but at least he kept it short.

Freedland doing his paper round and rushing home for the six-five special years before he was conceived is going to be the new pretending you lived through rationing and blackouts this week.

why do i get the feeling that if you played him a hundred other records that genuinely sound like aliens from the future, he'd only moan that they don't have proper songs like the beatles

That's well said, NickB. Most people don't actually like "aliens from the future".

It's not like Trickett wrote a think-piece about it either, just a one sentence tweet that was more about highlighting the hollowed out husk of the NHS that is now on the brink of being hollowed out even more by big US healthcare companies.

― calzino, Friday, November 26, 2021

Important point here: Trickett, in his ONE-LINE TWEET, did NOT go on about BJ creating a 'dead cat' effect.

And yet Hyde has written 3 paragraphs about how she doesn't like people using the phrase 'dead cat'.

I don't like it either, actually. But Trickett didn't do it. Hyde did. In an attack on someone who was defending the NHS.

She is morally disgusting.

"the world of Bedford vans, Charles Hawtrey and the Daily Sketch"

instead of making appallingly written clickbait for boomers, listen to Karyobin you odious bullshit merchant!

Baroness Hyde, no matter how liberal-left leaning she pretends to be for the sake of her hilarious ragging on the tories column, often can't help betraying how much of a tory wanker she is to the core.

*peeps into thread, retreats back into little hideaway beneath the waves*

https://www.diy-pest-control.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Rentokil_Carpet_Moth_Beetle_Multibuy.jpg

no one there to tell us/What to do !!

I know that for The Observer, Brexit is the primal scene of the nation’s disgrace, but this is actively disgusting. pic.twitter.com/lwTVC6w7DN

— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) November 27, 2021

FBPE psychosis in cartoon form is just as fucking demented as Ben Garrison

I hope someone will be amused by the GUARDIAN VIEW Editorial on KS's reshuffle and promotion of Yvette Cooper:

The new team contains strong and high-profile performers who have the talent and experience to discomfort their Tory opposite numbers. The appointment of Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary follows an impressive performance as the longstanding chair of the home affairs select committee. Ms Cooper’s clashes with Priti Patel are likely to be Westminster box office. Her track record on immigration policy makes her an experienced pair of hands, in a debate that Labour must handle with care.

I thought everyone, including aggro-liberals, thought that her 'track record on immigration policy' was an embarrassment?

I think they mean ‘discomfit’.

You get some bizarre projection going on with Cooper, who is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. FBPE's often seemed to believe she was a remainer without any evidence suggesting she was. Lots of respectable libs don't judge her cold careerist decision to be nastier/more racist than May and literally having the blood of disabled people on her hands. As for being good "box office" and a big beast, well Corbyn ran rings around her in 2015 and made her look like what she is - a cardboard cut out, a cold dead automaton with nothing inside her.

good summary