Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

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My feeling is: Yes, somewhat. But Regular Readers will recall that I am a curmudgeon who doesn't like New Things. So do they really want to agree with me here? Plus, we do have (somewhere round here) a house Guardian expert whose opinion would be interesting.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Some readers might, conceivably, like to know that the Guardian (formerly Manchester Guardian) is a UK daily newspaper which has for several decades been the main print source / gathering-point, as it were, for those on 'The Liberal Left'. Many UK ILE posters, I imagine, know it very well and have done for many years, so I thought there might be some opinions around.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I like the Guardian now more than I have for years. Perhaps the restyle of the mag helped, but generally the Burchill thing works for me and I haven't noticed a drop in quality elsewhere. The Guide has always been shite (and I say that working for PA Listings) but the rest seems cool. Can you specify what's gone wrong for you?

chris, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I hate the Guardian - particularly the G2 section, with it's crappy 'think' pieces, terrible arts reviews and smug phillistinism - and have bought it every weekday and Saturdays for at least the last fifteen years. Because, being a bleeding heart liberal and a news junkie, I couldn't bring myself to read any of the other rags (morning papers are somehow part of my going to work coping ritual.) I flirted with the Independent for a while - and the IOS still has the great film critic David Thomson writing for 'em - but I found it to be even more boring than the Guardian. I suspect that I am far from alone in all this, and that the Guardian survives on the unearned good will of the liberal middle classes.

Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time Out anymore.

Andrew L, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I've never actually bought a copy of the Guardian, if I did buy a newspaper I'd get the Telegraph, it has a good weather section, obituaries, world news briefs and I like the sports section.

james e l, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I suppose the short answer is 'Trivialization'. One has to be a tad careful using a word like that, because, for instance,

1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);

2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know) JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd- pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way (that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what have you).

It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang their heads in shame.

A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing? Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Andrew L: I know what you mean - the Labour party factor of Nowhere Else To Go? (And brand loyalty, or whatever you want to call it.) There's actually a Verso book out (yet?) which makes a massive attack on the Guardian as home of neo-conservative (ie New Labour) ideas. I find this rather unconvincing and overstated. Even offensive, come to think of it.

I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson. There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people who know what they think about him already know it all and would just send in superlatives.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Andrew L, and indeed everyone: cut em loose and let em drown in their own smug laziness!! I stopped buying it a YEAR ago FOREVER and now buy NO NEWSPAPER and am FREE. (Actually I too buy saturday for the guide — and for the food page in the mag, but the mag redesign is utter shit, and the recipes are in fact on long recycle: eg I have seen Lady Llandower's Duck three times now, always copied (of course) from Elizabeth David Salt, Spices and Aromatics...) The age of the newspaper is dead.

mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Something has clearly gone wrong with G2: the other week they ran a page-long feature on the phenomenon of "Jumping the shark" (referring to that moment when a long-running tv fave finally loses the plot completely, apparently derived from a late episode of Happy Days where Fonzie, yes, jumped a shark). This was all well and good (except it was inane and ripped off from a website [this is a whole other can of worms]), but they ran an almost IDENTICAL story in the Guide not two weeks previously. Do they not read their own paper, or did they simply think the readers wouldn't notice?

What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)

What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.

stevie t, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. (Pinefox)

I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover (and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality stories day in day out though.

David, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Stevie: agree about Steve Bell, of course. I mean, if only for the sake of 1981 and all that. But actually, he draws and paints better now.

I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces, come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young. Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even glib - to call someone glib.)

Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes? How could I forget David Lacey?

BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to look aged and thus wise.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I agree with much of what's been said. After Mark Steel and Jeremy Hardy went, it didn't seem as essential anymore. The Observer's the same - just dear old Phil Hogan that still makes me go down the shops Sunday morning

jamesmichaelward, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

My parents used to get a subscription to the Guardian shipped to them for the first few years they were in the States, because they couldn't trust the US Media. The Guardian just isn't the same when it's not printed on that semi-transluscent airmail paper.

I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has been particularly helpful lately... ;-)

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Steve Bell is a GOD but apart from that I read it largely out of having nowhere else to go and a worry that I'll become totally detached from the world if I don't read any newspapers at all. I think it might have marginally improved with the loss of Messrs. Hardy and Steel though. Everything they wrote was just as predictable and smug as any of the other writers mentioned above, only with a more left wing stance.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't read anything except the Spectator. Hey Chris, if you work for PA Listings then that means you're in the same building as me.

tarden, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

The Guide last week (or was it the week before) had that BRILLIANT article slamming not just the Strokes, but the entire music hype industry... VERY funny because it was so clearly written by an insider who had been participating in the music hype game for so long.

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I'd love to comment, but those Observer commissions are keeping me out of the poor house. Anything appearing in the Guardian or the Obs by my deepest and dearest friends is obviously genius...

Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

As bad as the Guardian may have become, it's still better than the so-called "best" American newspapers. Or, if you think it couldn't get worse, it could end up becoming The New York Times or The Washington Post.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Reynard's right about the amount of trivial toss that gets in there. Mark's also right about the decline of the newspaper in general. Reynard's spot on re. New Labour - the Guardian's frequent criticism of some Blairite attitudes is one of the great things about it.

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

The Hemulen Who Loved Silence, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

OK, agree with the Hemulen re. The Common Good.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Although Toynbee's piece on Labour post-election is admirable.

blue veils and golden sands, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Broadly I agree with her, yes. It feels a wee bit ironic given her immediately-pre-election pieces telling everyone how urgent it was to overcome apathy and vote for the people she's now criticizing. (But actually I think she was right both times.)

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

six years pass...

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link

"today"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link

It went downhill after I left.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link

or were you PUSHED?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link

i couldn't agree less

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (fourteen years ago) link

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

because you're cold xp

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (fourteen years ago) link

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

i just read about the butler thing. are they going to explain the developments? if they were bullied by terfs they should say so but they won't

criminally negligible (harbl), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 22:53 (one week ago) link

I’m pretty sure they will issue an explanation given the amount of heat they’re getting and their editorial team’s ongoing need for self-justification.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 23:02 (one week ago) link

It's poor and it will be poor

plax (ico), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 23:04 (one week ago) link

Yes. At a guess, it will be something like ‘now that a criminal charge has resulted from the WiSpa incident, we felt it appropriate to completely redact the question and answer from the interview’, as a fig leaf.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 23:08 (one week ago) link

the piece was commission by the Guardian US too which makes this intervention even stranger.

Lots of DMs:

Yes, they deleted a paragraph criticising gender critical feminism

Yes this is confusing, and (I'm told) unprecedented

Yes we asked for it reinstated (or as a last resort, republished)

Yes I offered a rewrite to bring it up-to-date

Yes I'm now going to bed

— Juliana☿ (@socialrepro) September 7, 2021

some details from the interviewer

ufo, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 01:18 (one week ago) link

I hadn't realised the British staff would have final veto power, tbh.

— Juliana☿ (@socialrepro) September 8, 2021

& confirmed that the uk guardian staff intervened which seems very unusual for a us guardian article? will be maddening if the uk branch starts intervening in the au guardian too which is somehow very good generally

ufo, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 07:54 (one week ago) link

Their processes are fucked.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 08:50 (one week ago) link

the uk parent has also reportedly used this as a pretext to force the us guardian to scrap an entire (presumably trans-friendly seeing as it was the us guardian) series on trans issues of which this interview was intended to be the first part

hope there's some sort of pushback from the us staff or something

ufo, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 10:44 (one week ago) link

this really seems like unspoken toxic working culture / prejudice crossing over into explicit policy, not something that ever really ends well

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 11:20 (one week ago) link

The idea humans don't need sex categories, that we're above such mundanities, is the ultimate luxury belief.
And it unsurprisingly emerged from an elite university in a superpower state https://t.co/cZhcM2YKZc

— Susanna Rustin (@SusannaRustin) September 7, 2021

*Checks bio* ok

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 13:51 (one week ago) link

🚨 Facts are sacred 🚨

cheesons to be rearful (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 13:53 (one week ago) link

Pretty edifying watching soi disant feminists who'd rather tear down feminist and gender theory than give up hating all trans people

cheesons to be rearful (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 14:00 (one week ago) link

luxury belief

criminally negligible (harbl), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 14:18 (one week ago) link

Oh so now religious fundamentalists are bad? Because swerfs and terfs usually have no problem aligning with the Christians ones.

Notes on Scampo (tokyo rosemary), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 14:50 (one week ago) link

now that it's established that the other branches don't actually have editorial independence i'm really looking forward to "are the guardian us & au worse than they used to be" slowly becoming increasingly common

ufo, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 21:59 (one week ago) link

in the decades since this thread started the guardian kowtowed to the MI5 in a fashion that made the Murdoch papers look like slackers. Aligned themselves with the transphobes and expended industrial amounts of energy attacking Corbynism. We need to stop helping keep them alive by giving them reluctant hate clicks and treat them as nothing different different from the spectator or the telegraph going forwards. They need to die.

calzino, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 22:28 (one week ago) link

Can confirm

plax (ico), Thursday, 9 September 2021 10:18 (one week ago) link

ShariVari's prediction was correct about their explanation but it makes no sense to me. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/guardian-judith-butler-interview-trans-terfs_n_6138d856e4b0f1b9706915be the criminal charge doesn't change the question or the answer, and even if they thought it was important to include they could just put an editor's note in brackets. it's just mindblowing how dishonest it is! btw i didn't even know the guardian had a separate u.s. or australian version.

criminally negligible (harbl), Thursday, 9 September 2021 12:21 (one week ago) link

The author had rewritten the question to remove reference to that incident.

plax (ico), Thursday, 9 September 2021 14:18 (one week ago) link

the guardian au is solidly centre-left & genuinely one of the best news sources here. not inclined to centrist hand-wringing, left-bashing, transphobia, or anything like that, thankfully. it probably helps that australian labor isn't quite as terrible as uk labour (though they're still shit in plenty of ways) but also they're not as committed to defending the bad parts either

ufo, Friday, 10 September 2021 00:31 (one week ago) link

This is very true, though they do have one of the most annoying columnists in the world, Br1gid Del@ney

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Saturday, 11 September 2021 13:06 (one week ago) link

still not quite as inane as some of the uk's though

ufo, Saturday, 11 September 2021 13:10 (one week ago) link

Day 3 of a series of articles where a bunch of writers project whatever the hell they want on Emma Raducanu.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/14/emma-raducanu-famous-teenage-girls-young-women

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 15 September 2021 07:43 (five days ago) link

I veer between gentle outrage and "sorry you'll have to get used to it, these morons will never change" every time I hear or see her name this week

cheesons to be rearful (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2021 07:55 (five days ago) link

There is a lot of bullshit in women's tennis and it's coverage but it is a space where women just win and can get on with whatever they want. As for Raducanu, she has just won! And you're telling me she hasn't? Ok..

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 15 September 2021 09:20 (five days ago) link

Hadley Freeman appears to be leaving The Guardian after this weekend.

Suspect she’ll be taking the Woody Allen Innocent show on the road to The Times but we’ll see.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 15 September 2021 19:58 (five days ago) link

She’s got a few books to write, I guess? I think British Vogue stopped using her because she’s a transphobe (Edward the editor would not want someone like that writing for him).

the thin blue lying (suzy), Wednesday, 15 September 2021 23:29 (five days ago) link

This would be, genuinely, on balance, a reason to read the Guardian.

the pinefox, Thursday, 16 September 2021 11:16 (four days ago) link

Hadley has deleted that tweet

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 16 September 2021 14:01 (four days ago) link

No reasons to ever read this rag beyond sheer fucking boredom.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 16 September 2021 14:02 (four days ago) link

On balance, I think contributing in some peculiar way to the departure of HF must rank as one of Jez's finest achievements

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/18/opinion-writing-has-changed-a-lot-since-i-started-out-its-time-for-something-new

Piedie Gimbel, Saturday, 18 September 2021 09:27 (two days ago) link

how wonderful it would be to live in that cloud of sweet obliviousness

that which does not chungus makes us chonger (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 18 September 2021 09:43 (two days ago) link

hah come back and talk about your legacy when you've managed to write a piece that still gets memed to death 20 years later like Milne's "They can’t see why they are hated" does.

calzino, Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:00 (two days ago) link

well it turns out long Corbynism is good

calzino, Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:12 (two days ago) link

It looks like she isn’t even leaving, it’s just the last column for Weekend, which is closing.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:16 (two days ago) link

But column-writing was seen as something of a private members’ club: elitist, dusty and distant.

This was my best bit, she is v funny tbfttl

that which does not chungus makes us chonger (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:20 (two days ago) link

so it's only really "The End" for the 180 Weekend staff the Guardian have laid off

calzino, Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:25 (two days ago) link

The Guardian: "why do we expect such a conformity of opinion?"

Also The Guardian: *deletes interviews that do not conform* pic.twitter.com/BD4CXtMksl

— Adam Smith (@adamndsmith) September 18, 2021

this is a very good point

calzino, Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:41 (two days ago) link

I loved the way they closed the comments so that quite fortuitously this one remains on top (after the eulogising Guardian Picks):

Dear Hadley,

It has been marvellous to see your journalism evolve. You are a wonderful writer and I have treasured your fearlessness and independent-mindedness in confronting and examining questions others have fought shy of. I will be looking forward to reading more of your interviews and features on film, literature and culture, wherever they are published. Go well.

Luna Schlosser, Saturday, 18 September 2021 10:50 (two days ago) link

"Go well"? Is that a thing people say?

How does Spock's brain come into this? (Tom D.), Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:00 (two days ago) link

it sounds like Dungeons & Dragons speak.

calzino, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:15 (two days ago) link

ppl do say it yes, i have used it in obits (of ppl who actually died that i was fond of)

mark s, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:19 (two days ago) link

when do i get my guardian column

mark s, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:19 (two days ago) link

what do you say in obits when you're not fond of ppl?

Luna Schlosser, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:25 (two days ago) link

Milne has a lot to answer for.

This is my favourite lol moment:

"None of this is why I’m stopping the column. It’s just time."

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:26 (two days ago) link

"RIP: they didn't know why they were hated"

mark s, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:29 (two days ago) link

when do i get my guardian column

― mark s, Saturday, 18 September 2021 bookmarkflaglink

If you want one I suggest you study the masters

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/adrian-chiles

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:39 (two days ago) link

(x-post)
Seems a bit harsh, especially if they saw themselves more as ".. wide circle of friends, colourful array of lovers, and lived an extraordinarily full life."

Luna Schlosser, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:46 (two days ago) link

tbf that's why they were hated

mark s, Saturday, 18 September 2021 11:51 (two days ago) link

would like to live in a country where a centre left paper might be fair minded enough to include the resignation of 2 members of staff over LGBT+ issues, her publicly identifying one of them, union reaction to this, trans members leaving party or even her comments this morning https://t.co/9AkeG0USUn

— a rare photo of sean connery signed by roger moore (@steamedhamms) September 20, 2021

xyzzzz__, Monday, 20 September 2021 11:22 (eleven hours ago) link


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