― the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― chris, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe
Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because
it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time
― Andrew L, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― james e l, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts
about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);
2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page
reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to
say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and
RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.
What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now
look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché
pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a
million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know)
JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd-
pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way
(that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what
It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way
that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang
their heads in shame.
A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed
impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful
impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to
impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing?
Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.
I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson.
There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people
who know what they think about him already know it all and would just
send in superlatives.
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the
Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and
the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her
clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)
What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently
terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty
Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match
the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that
should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.
― stevie t, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover
(and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the
cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I
imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality
stories day in day out though.
― David, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces,
come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young.
Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but
usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way
he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even
glib - to call someone glib.)
Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that
to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree
about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I
think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly
the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes?
How could I forget David Lacey?
BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me
that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather
surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's
terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in
year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to
look aged and thus wise.
― jamesmichaelward, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has
been particularly helpful lately... ;-)
― masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― tarden, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is
George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent
when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more
about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's
series of articles on public service under that very title were
― The Hemulen Who Loved Silence, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page
of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So
Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.
― the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― blue veils and golden sands, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.
oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link
"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"
Martin McCall, by email
"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.
"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link
I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?
I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link
dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link
It went downhill after I left.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link
or were you PUSHED?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link
heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link
i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.
― aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link
i couldn't agree less
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link
I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.
I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.
This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (fourteen years ago) link
why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link
I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?
― Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link
because you're cold xp
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link
In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link
you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste
given to you = not you buying
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link
No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.
Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link
i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.
a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link
my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.
this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.
it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit
― Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link
the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!
alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (fourteen years ago) link
is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."
If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.
I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link
> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.
> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)
― koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Saturday, 6 November 2021 03:48 (three weeks ago) link
it was the quick crossword and kakuru puzzle on the back page of G2 that had me still occasionally buying the print edition, but this was before they became transphobia central and the MI5 house paper.
― calzino, Saturday, 6 November 2021 09:19 (three weeks ago) link
Fawning review of Hillary Clinton's new airport thriller about "President Dumb" pulling out of the Iran deal.
Why do pols do this shit? Her husband has a couple out, too. Imagine Bernie or Corbyn putting out a ghostwritten thriller abt a leftist candidate getting fucked over by the right wing of their party, the clowning would never end.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 6 November 2021 10:57 (three weeks ago) link
i know its so undignified
― plax (ico), Saturday, 6 November 2021 13:54 (three weeks ago) link
the Bennite Labour MP Brian Sedgemore wrote a couple of political thrillers back in the day, can't think of any other leftish politicians who have done this unless you count Chris Mullin who is probably better known as a writer than an MP
― soref, Saturday, 6 November 2021 16:53 (three weeks ago) link
i stood behind him in a shop once, he was very tall
― mark s, Saturday, 6 November 2021 17:48 (three weeks ago) link
and now he's dead
― Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid), Saturday, 6 November 2021 17:53 (three weeks ago) link
'don't be tall in front of me!'
― Mark G, Saturday, 6 November 2021 18:30 (three weeks ago) link
You've got to go back a bit...
― Des Weerelds Dool-om-berg ont-doold op Dool-in-bergh (Tom D.), Saturday, 6 November 2021 19:04 (three weeks ago) link
Quite enjoyed the hammering Rachel Cooke received from BTL commentators for this 'peak Guardian':
Worried about waste and having too much ‘stuff’? Get rid of the fitted kitchen
― Luna Schlosser, Sunday, 14 November 2021 12:54 (two weeks ago) link
what kitchens? "I often put a joint in our coal hole" - WHAT?!
― maf you one two (maffew12), Sunday, 14 November 2021 13:12 (two weeks ago) link
The rarest of all things, a good Observer opinion piece.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Sunday, 14 November 2021 13:25 (two weeks ago) link
has (old-school RCP and spiked! alum) kenan malik managed to circle back to being more or less ok?
― mark s, Sunday, 14 November 2021 13:37 (two weeks ago) link
I wouldn’t necessarily go that far but a lot of his pieces on migration are decent.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Sunday, 14 November 2021 13:48 (two weeks ago) link
I think he wrote something pretty stupid and malicious very recently about trans people or free speech or something can't remember, all these people are the disingenuous monkey to me
― plax (ico), Sunday, 14 November 2021 14:54 (two weeks ago) link
Won't somebody think about the 5-star hoteliers?? Had to double-check that this wasn't in fact in the Times or Telegraph.
― Piedie Gimbel, Monday, 22 November 2021 09:29 (one week ago) link
The au pair agency article in that series is also “peak Guardian” in tone:
For families who employ au pairs, one of the benefits is having a (hopefully) fun person around to give their children an insight into another country and language. Another is having someone to help with childcare without having to pay the larger salary of a nanny.
― Luna Schlosser, Monday, 22 November 2021 09:48 (one week ago) link
that grand hotel overlooking Fistral beach is a beautiful building but you could probably rent out a decent little bungalow 5 mins up the road for a much cheaper and better holiday imo. Well that's what I did a few times.
― calzino, Monday, 22 November 2021 09:53 (one week ago) link
Also much less likely to be transformed into a mouse by Angelica Houston and her covention of witches.
― Piedie Gimbel, Monday, 22 November 2021 10:22 (one week ago) link
― maf you one two (maffew12), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 12:47 (one week ago) link
lmao that is another peak guardian pile of piffle
'here's something you busy bees should find relatable!'
― imago, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 12:59 (one week ago) link
I know that many people, like me, already think that Marina Hyde is a bad reactionary.
But even so, I am surprised at the level plumbed by this particular, latest, column. Astonishingly poor in quality, in insight, in ethical and political values.
― the pinefox, Friday, 26 November 2021 19:56 (six days ago) link
Boris Johnson's CBI speech was nowhere near as depressingly bad and awful as Starmer's was. Even the director general of the CBI thinks Starmer is full of shit.
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 20:24 (six days ago) link
but yeah Hyde is fucking awful (again)
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 20:25 (six days ago) link
"the alternative is facing up to the bald reality that people actually preferred THIS GUY to his guy"
why not just say the UK electorate are mostly fucking awful and have been awful for decades, and in a FPTP system with the Graun demonising the LOTO on a daily basis it wasn't that hard for them to revert to type.
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 20:32 (six days ago) link
.. and awful to succeed again
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 20:35 (six days ago) link
I don't expect an arsehole like Hyde to go into the People's Vote stitch-up that completely fucked Corbyn in 2019. But let's not try to pass oneself off as a very smart and droll arch-cynic who knows what is going on, which is allegedly her brand.
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 20:50 (six days ago) link
It's not like Trickett wrote a think-piece about it either, just a one sentence tweet that was more about highlighting the hollowed out husk of the NHS that is now on the brink of being hollowed out even more by big US healthcare companies.
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 21:00 (six days ago) link
The Beatles were like aliens from the future in 1969 - and they are still as radical todayJonathan Freedland
vicarious memories from a complete dickhead who was born in '67
― calzino, Friday, 26 November 2021 23:02 (six days ago) link
To be fair, "Octopus's Garden" might have sounded radical to a 2 year old.
― When Smeato Met Moaty (Tom D.), Friday, 26 November 2021 23:21 (six days ago) link
it sounded nice! we would be warm / below the storm / in our little hideaway / beneath the waves!!
i was a bit older than two tho
― mark s, Friday, 26 November 2021 23:28 (six days ago) link
horribly ancient uglies who only existed on scratchy old ex-jukebox 45's is my memory of them and unfortunately I'm not that much younger than him. Anyway they weren't radical and they were fucking shite!
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 03:46 (five days ago) link
that army fetishizing wankfest was bad enough, but at least he kept it short.
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 04:02 (five days ago) link
Freedland doing his paper round and rushing home for the six-five special years before he was conceived is going to be the new pretending you lived through rationing and blackouts this week.
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 04:12 (five days ago) link
why do i get the feeling that if you played him a hundred other records that genuinely sound like aliens from the future, he'd only moan that they don't have proper songs like the beatles
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 27 November 2021 07:57 (five days ago) link
That's well said, NickB. Most people don't actually like "aliens from the future".
― the pinefox, Saturday, 27 November 2021 08:50 (five days ago) link
It's not like Trickett wrote a think-piece about it either, just a one sentence tweet that was more about highlighting the hollowed out husk of the NHS that is now on the brink of being hollowed out even more by big US healthcare companies.― calzino, Friday, November 26, 2021
― calzino, Friday, November 26, 2021
Important point here: Trickett, in his ONE-LINE TWEET, did NOT go on about BJ creating a 'dead cat' effect.
And yet Hyde has written 3 paragraphs about how she doesn't like people using the phrase 'dead cat'.
I don't like it either, actually. But Trickett didn't do it. Hyde did. In an attack on someone who was defending the NHS.
She is morally disgusting.
― the pinefox, Saturday, 27 November 2021 08:52 (five days ago) link
"the world of Bedford vans, Charles Hawtrey and the Daily Sketch"
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 09:15 (five days ago) link
instead of making appallingly written clickbait for boomers, listen to Karyobin you odious bullshit merchant!
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 09:18 (five days ago) link
Baroness Hyde, no matter how liberal-left leaning she pretends to be for the sake of her hilarious ragging on the tories column, often can't help betraying how much of a tory wanker she is to the core.
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 11:06 (five days ago) link
*peeps into thread, retreats back into little hideaway beneath the waves*
― mark s, Saturday, 27 November 2021 11:43 (five days ago) link
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 11:47 (five days ago) link
no one there to tell us/What to do !!
― mark s, Saturday, 27 November 2021 12:10 (five days ago) link
I know that for The Observer, Brexit is the primal scene of the nation’s disgrace, but this is actively disgusting. pic.twitter.com/lwTVC6w7DN— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) November 27, 2021
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 27 November 2021 20:21 (five days ago) link
FBPE psychosis in cartoon form is just as fucking demented as Ben Garrison
― calzino, Saturday, 27 November 2021 20:29 (five days ago) link
I hope someone will be amused by the GUARDIAN VIEW Editorial on KS's reshuffle and promotion of Yvette Cooper:
The new team contains strong and high-profile performers who have the talent and experience to discomfort their Tory opposite numbers. The appointment of Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary follows an impressive performance as the longstanding chair of the home affairs select committee. Ms Cooper’s clashes with Priti Patel are likely to be Westminster box office. Her track record on immigration policy makes her an experienced pair of hands, in a debate that Labour must handle with care.
I thought everyone, including aggro-liberals, thought that her 'track record on immigration policy' was an embarrassment?
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 10:09 (yesterday) link
I think they mean ‘discomfit’.
― Madchen, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 16:57 (yesterday) link
You get some bizarre projection going on with Cooper, who is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. FBPE's often seemed to believe she was a remainer without any evidence suggesting she was. Lots of respectable libs don't judge her cold careerist decision to be nastier/more racist than May and literally having the blood of disabled people on her hands. As for being good "box office" and a big beast, well Corbyn ran rings around her in 2015 and made her look like what she is - a cardboard cut out, a cold dead automaton with nothing inside her.
― calzino, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 19:20 (yesterday) link
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 1 December 2021 22:21 (yesterday) link