Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time Out anymore.

1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);

2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know) JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd- pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way (that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what have you).

It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang their heads in shame.

A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing? Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.

I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson. There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people who know what they think about him already know it all and would just send in superlatives.

What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)

What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.

I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover (and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality stories day in day out though.

I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces, come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young. Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even glib - to call someone glib.)

Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes? How could I forget David Lacey?

BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to look aged and thus wise.

I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has been particularly helpful lately... ;-)

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

"today"

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

It went downhill after I left.

or were you PUSHED?

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/thesportsdesk/images/200607/20060707henrydive_derblog.jpg

xp

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

i couldn't agree less

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

because you're cold xp

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

The obituarist died before the subject of the obituary.

Yes, always like it when that happens.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/race-gender-oppressed-can-be-oppressors-too-kemi-badenoch

Extraordinary stuff from Sonia Sodha in The Observer.

I guess having denounced the left as racist, ‘trans allies are no better than racists’ was inevitably next.

Oh yeah, “race traitor”, that concept and insult so common on the left.

it's like a vicar who can tell any anecdote from their life or the news and spin it to be about the sermon on the mount

the kind of people Ed had advising him as labour leader eh?

I’m pretty sure Bindel’s transphobia got her booted from The Guardian on more than one occasion before the editorial team lost the collective plot.

Still, good to see the BBC’s guidelines kicking in.

When it comes to race and gender, oppressed people can be oppressors too | Race | The Guardian https://t.co/DJmDtiq2NC

— emily m (@maitlis) February 14, 2021

Delayed action post: loved that obit, up thread.

Ah yes, today is Sunday again.

w/o naim attalah the wire would absolutely not have made out it of the 80s, or hired (or indeed fired) me lol

my new ethical consumption thing is im no longer clicking on guardian etc hate reads and from now on will only post cached via archive.org as i refuse to give them their hate clicks. actual journalism stuff is fine, but not their 'why transphobia is not only the best strategy for labour, but morally correct' think pieces. i invite you all to join me in this high-minded and self-satisfied activity.

I've been doing that for a while now, which, along with the fact that I'm not British and don't live in the UK, explains why I hate The Guardian less than some of you. Ignorance is bliss.

Isn’t this what dumptheguardian is for?

Of course this counts as BREAKING NEWS:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/14/harry-meghan-duke-duchess-sussex-second-child

as lex once posted: guillotine it!

: )

one one hand yes of course, on the other hand still reeling from this breaking news from yesterday

William and Kate Are Reportedly Trying for Baby #4 and Queen Elizabeth Has Been Informed https://t.co/YqTKsTNSrR

— Cosmopolitan (@Cosmopolitan) February 12, 2021

Is the spunk blue too?

red white and green.

I only want it if it's green

green not in a good way.

Thanks to everyone itt who’s now forced me to picture spunk and the Queen in the same thoughtframe, cos now I’m picturing Prince Phillip’s demon seed and need to repay the favour.
https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11826304-3x2-large.jpg
“It’s crunchy”

Ah, there is the black magic card.

You brought it on yourself

Tbf liches are cool. I approve of necromancy.

I mean you wouldn’t volunteer to suck one off, would you

Well…

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c7cee5825468c56feba7d3f01f5a4e7d/tumblr_p04cgtdgv21ww7r0zo1_250.gif

christ imagine Phillip shooting his dusty fossilised pellets of amber in your general direction, poor Lilibet has to wear a bullet proof basque these days!

Excellent Valentine’s Day content from everyone

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it was 30 years ago today I took my partner on our first date in what proved to be the biggest mistake in her life and I'm just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

they've been going in and out of style, but they're guaranteed to raise a smile

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/15/everyone-in-my-household-is-permanently-tired-and-i-cant-stand-the-moaning

This ZW article is advertised at the top of the front page today.

cheer up zoe not many people could get paid for this shite

I only want it if it's green

― Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 14 February 2021 20:14 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

'sell me a paper' indeed

cheer up zoe not many people could get paid for this shite

Too right. These people live on a different planet.

it was recently pointed out to me that the scotland editor libby brooks is casually slipping hate speech into her articles now:

https://www.dumptheguardian.com/law/2021/feb/22/ill-set-no-limits-on-which-women-to-protect-from-hate-says-helena-kennedy

"The Scottish government’s own hate crime bill has attracted a huge amount of controversy and, while it was always the intention to examine this standalone option, the timing is far from ideal. As it stands, a bill is passing through Holyrood that criminalises the stirring up of hatred against men who dress as women but not the stirring up of hatred against women, while the decision of protections for women won’t be made until Kennedy’s working group reports back in 12 months’ time."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/22/jess-phillips-mp-motherhood-made-me-feel-like-i-mattered-i-wish-that-wasnt-the-case

Worse than it used to be.

I feel pleased. pic.twitter.com/GUy3vHPUw0

— Lucie Toblerone (@msloobylou) February 24, 2021

is that a fucking question?

I didn't realise they had it in for people with disabilities too!

we established this during the corbyn era- all austerity deaths are just water under the bridge now. much like the invasion of Iraq. these are not lives that serious grown ups can afford to care about

thank u based boris

How it started / How it's going pic.twitter.com/nrGwhhBYxh

— Stats for Lefties (@LeftieStats) February 24, 2021

fuck wrong thread

is it though

makes u think