Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

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My feeling is: Yes, somewhat. But Regular Readers will recall that I am a curmudgeon who doesn't like New Things. So do they really want to agree with me here? Plus, we do have (somewhere round here) a house Guardian expert whose opinion would be interesting.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Some readers might, conceivably, like to know that the Guardian (formerly Manchester Guardian) is a UK daily newspaper which has for several decades been the main print source / gathering-point, as it were, for those on 'The Liberal Left'. Many UK ILE posters, I imagine, know it very well and have done for many years, so I thought there might be some opinions around.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I like the Guardian now more than I have for years. Perhaps the restyle of the mag helped, but generally the Burchill thing works for me and I haven't noticed a drop in quality elsewhere. The Guide has always been shite (and I say that working for PA Listings) but the rest seems cool. Can you specify what's gone wrong for you?

chris, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate the Guardian - particularly the G2 section, with it's crappy 'think' pieces, terrible arts reviews and smug phillistinism - and have bought it every weekday and Saturdays for at least the last fifteen years. Because, being a bleeding heart liberal and a news junkie, I couldn't bring myself to read any of the other rags (morning papers are somehow part of my going to work coping ritual.) I flirted with the Independent for a while - and the IOS still has the great film critic David Thomson writing for 'em - but I found it to be even more boring than the Guardian. I suspect that I am far from alone in all this, and that the Guardian survives on the unearned good will of the liberal middle classes.

Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time Out anymore.

Andrew L, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I've never actually bought a copy of the Guardian, if I did buy a newspaper I'd get the Telegraph, it has a good weather section, obituaries, world news briefs and I like the sports section.

james e l, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I suppose the short answer is 'Trivialization'. One has to be a tad careful using a word like that, because, for instance,

1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);

2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know) JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd- pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way (that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what have you).

It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang their heads in shame.

A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing? Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrew L: I know what you mean - the Labour party factor of Nowhere Else To Go? (And brand loyalty, or whatever you want to call it.) There's actually a Verso book out (yet?) which makes a massive attack on the Guardian as home of neo-conservative (ie New Labour) ideas. I find this rather unconvincing and overstated. Even offensive, come to think of it.

I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson. There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people who know what they think about him already know it all and would just send in superlatives.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrew L, and indeed everyone: cut em loose and let em drown in their own smug laziness!! I stopped buying it a YEAR ago FOREVER and now buy NO NEWSPAPER and am FREE. (Actually I too buy saturday for the guide — and for the food page in the mag, but the mag redesign is utter shit, and the recipes are in fact on long recycle: eg I have seen Lady Llandower's Duck three times now, always copied (of course) from Elizabeth David Salt, Spices and Aromatics...) The age of the newspaper is dead.

mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Something has clearly gone wrong with G2: the other week they ran a page-long feature on the phenomenon of "Jumping the shark" (referring to that moment when a long-running tv fave finally loses the plot completely, apparently derived from a late episode of Happy Days where Fonzie, yes, jumped a shark). This was all well and good (except it was inane and ripped off from a website [this is a whole other can of worms]), but they ran an almost IDENTICAL story in the Guide not two weeks previously. Do they not read their own paper, or did they simply think the readers wouldn't notice?

What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)

What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.

stevie t, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. (Pinefox)

I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover (and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality stories day in day out though.

David, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Stevie: agree about Steve Bell, of course. I mean, if only for the sake of 1981 and all that. But actually, he draws and paints better now.

I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces, come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young. Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even glib - to call someone glib.)

Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes? How could I forget David Lacey?

BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to look aged and thus wise.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I agree with much of what's been said. After Mark Steel and Jeremy Hardy went, it didn't seem as essential anymore. The Observer's the same - just dear old Phil Hogan that still makes me go down the shops Sunday morning

jamesmichaelward, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

My parents used to get a subscription to the Guardian shipped to them for the first few years they were in the States, because they couldn't trust the US Media. The Guardian just isn't the same when it's not printed on that semi-transluscent airmail paper.

I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has been particularly helpful lately... ;-)

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Steve Bell is a GOD but apart from that I read it largely out of having nowhere else to go and a worry that I'll become totally detached from the world if I don't read any newspapers at all. I think it might have marginally improved with the loss of Messrs. Hardy and Steel though. Everything they wrote was just as predictable and smug as any of the other writers mentioned above, only with a more left wing stance.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't read anything except the Spectator. Hey Chris, if you work for PA Listings then that means you're in the same building as me.

tarden, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

The Guide last week (or was it the week before) had that BRILLIANT article slamming not just the Strokes, but the entire music hype industry... VERY funny because it was so clearly written by an insider who had been participating in the music hype game for so long.

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd love to comment, but those Observer commissions are keeping me out of the poor house. Anything appearing in the Guardian or the Obs by my deepest and dearest friends is obviously genius...

Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

As bad as the Guardian may have become, it's still better than the so-called "best" American newspapers. Or, if you think it couldn't get worse, it could end up becoming The New York Times or The Washington Post.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Reynard's right about the amount of trivial toss that gets in there. Mark's also right about the decline of the newspaper in general. Reynard's spot on re. New Labour - the Guardian's frequent criticism of some Blairite attitudes is one of the great things about it.

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

The Hemulen Who Loved Silence, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

OK, agree with the Hemulen re. The Common Good.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Although Toynbee's piece on Labour post-election is admirable.

blue veils and golden sands, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Broadly I agree with her, yes. It feels a wee bit ironic given her immediately-pre-election pieces telling everyone how urgent it was to overcome apathy and vote for the people she's now criticizing. (But actually I think she was right both times.)

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

six years pass...

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (twelve years ago) link

"today"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (twelve years ago) link

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (twelve years ago) link

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (twelve years ago) link

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (twelve years ago) link

It went downhill after I left.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (twelve years ago) link

or were you PUSHED?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (twelve years ago) link

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (twelve years ago) link

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (twelve years ago) link

i couldn't agree less

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (twelve years ago) link

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (twelve years ago) link

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (twelve years ago) link

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (twelve years ago) link

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (twelve years ago) link

because you're cold xp

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (twelve years ago) link

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (twelve years ago) link

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (twelve years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (twelve years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (twelve years ago) link

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (twelve years ago) link

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (twelve years ago) link

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (twelve years ago) link

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (twelve years ago) link

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (twelve years ago) link

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (twelve years ago) link

It happens to be the only one I've seen of the lot and it was in fact quite good!

pomenitul, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 13:54 (one month ago) link

lol so tacky "top 20 shows that were in london or at a major bienniale"

plax (ico), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 16:07 (one month ago) link

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/sep/19/american-airlines-aairpass-golden-ticket

Absolute state of this.

We start with a sympathetic subject.

In 1987, amid a lucrative year as a Bear Stearns stockbroker, my father became one of only a few dozen people on earth to purchase an unlimited, lifetime AAirpass. A quarter of a million dollars gave him access to fly first class anywhere in the world on American for the rest of his life.


For several years, the revenues department at American had been monitoring my father and other AAirpass holders to see how much their golden tickets were costing the airline in lost revenue. After 20 years, it seems, they’d decided the pass wasn’t such a good idea. My father was one of several lifetime, unlimited AAirpass holders American claimed had breached their contracts.

This is on top of the 30 million free air miles he accumulated at the same time.

Feel like there might be some clues elsewhere about this

Often he’d leave in the morning for a business trip, fly back, and I hadn’t even known he’d left.

I’m not sure how compelling this is as an argument tbh

A few months later, my father sued American for breaking their deal, and more importantly, taking away something integral to who he was.

I just...am not feeling the loss here.

“Steven got on a plane like most people get on a bus,” says my mom, Nancy Rothstein, who was married to my father for 36 years.

I’m not sure this paints quite the picture of him she’d like

Through it all, he continued flying. Everywhere. Airports and airplanes – they were who Dad was.

So normal!


Ernie Thurmond, a former American employee who handled Dad’s AAirpass contracts, helped with adding some special stipulations. My parents decided early on to take separate planes so that in the unlikely event of a crash, at least one of them would be alive for their three children. So the agreement amendment stated: “If spouse is the companion, the spouse will be allowed to travel separately from Holder, provided that the spouse travels on the flight immediately prior to or just after the flight taken by Holder.” My parents wouldn’t fly on the same plane for at least a decade after that.

I cbf pasting anymore, but seriously.

gyac, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:27 (one month ago) link

also being celebrated on the quiddities thread.

The Pingularity (ledge), Friday, 20 September 2019 13:29 (one month ago) link

'This story originally appeared on the digital storytelling platform Narratively.'

pomenitul, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:29 (one month ago) link

yeah this article is total dogshit - there was a bit of chat about it on the quiddities & agonies of the nyt thread earlier today

just incredible that a sob story about this rich asshole who abused the most environmentally-destructive form of travel is appearing on the same day the grauniad is giving blanket coverage to the climate protests

lol i read quite a lot of that thinking wtf is this. a rambling plea for a stratospherically privileged father who, even on the basis of the article, via the special pleading of his journalist daughter, has clearly fraudulently abused the terms of his ticket. what an utter shitshow.

Fizzles, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:34 (one month ago) link

Outrage is lucrative.

pomenitul, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:34 (one month ago) link

Ty I will look in the quiddities thread!

It’s so tone deaf! Like when she talks about how there’s no difference between economy and first class, or how she was “socialised to fly first class”.

gyac, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:48 (one month ago) link

That's exactly why it was published. Not quite clickbait, technically speaking, but…

Same underlying logic as this in some ways:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/sep/20/monogamous-man-in-a-three-way-relationship

pomenitul, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:50 (one month ago) link

There’s even a photo of him in a rickshaw being pulled by another man :-/

Madchen, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:53 (one month ago) link

Not to defend the piece - not least because it really was a ramble but it was interesting how the abuse of the ticket came this justification via depression and death. It was what kept me for a lot longer than I should have.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:54 (one month ago) link

"For 20 years, he was one of American’s top fliers, accumulating more than 30 million miles, which he acquired every time he flew, even with the AAirpass."

Does this refer to an AirMiles loyalty reward system kind of thing? Otherwise I don't understand 'which he acquired every time he flew'.

kinder, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:56 (one month ago) link

I think so because he was giving the miles to other people.

gyac, Friday, 20 September 2019 13:58 (one month ago) link

It's just sad on every level, that poor airline, that poor stockbroker, so many broken lives

Fox Pithole Britain (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 September 2019 14:00 (one month ago) link

That was confusing. Because now if you fly for free you don't accrue miles. They have a thing now where it's based on segments, dollars spent and/or qualifying miles.

Yerac, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:01 (one month ago) link

meh... I once managed to acquire a 12 month free travel Metro Card when I was working on a contract to fit LED lighting to all the bus stops in w yorkshire #kingofbusmiles

calzino, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:02 (one month ago) link

Still reading but "They claimed that his “fraudulent usage” included booking empty seats for his companion feature under “Bag Rothstein” or “Steven Rothstein Jr” (which they had for years condoned, and Mom says was not Dad’s idea), as well as “booking speculative reservations” – ie, flight reservations he was allegedly never planning to actually take."

FFS!

kinder, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:13 (one month ago) link

I won't finish reading that, but does it explain anywhere why this retired stockbroker can't just use his fucking money to fly everywhere all the time now?

☮ (peace, man), Friday, 20 September 2019 14:17 (one month ago) link

I couldn't finish it either. It's off the chain.

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:20 (one month ago) link

It's the obvious question, isn't it.

kinder, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:21 (one month ago) link

guardian literally ripping off youtuber content now are they

imago, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:33 (one month ago) link

i.e. there was a wendover productions/half as interesting video on this very topic...yesterday? maybe a total coincidence idk

imago, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:35 (one month ago) link

I think the piece was initially published on Narratively in July.

pomenitul, Friday, 20 September 2019 14:38 (one month ago) link

I finally finished this. The guy seems to always have had massive problems that money could hide. So cringey that he would call the reservations number to chat for an hour and then feel compelled to make a reservation to hide it. His entire life was so delusional, thinking you are having authentic experiences while traveling first class, staying first class and buying peoples' gratitude and adulation.

Yerac, Friday, 20 September 2019 15:34 (one month ago) link

curious as to why they are doing 21st century arts roundups in september of 2019. why now?

koogs, Friday, 20 September 2019 15:59 (one month ago) link

I thought the same!

the pinefox, Friday, 20 September 2019 17:03 (one month ago) link

They know something about the Mayans that we don't.

pomenitul, Friday, 20 September 2019 17:05 (one month ago) link

well, most of us

*knowing postapocalyptic nod*

unacceptable that airlines are limiting my right to all the gold tophats tickets i might want

mark s, Friday, 20 September 2019 18:35 (one month ago) link

It would've been cheaper for American to just have hired a therapist the reservation number could've routed his calls to.

Yerac, Friday, 20 September 2019 18:37 (one month ago) link

how many gold tophats does it take to exceed your baggage allowance?

Fox Pithole Britain (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 September 2019 18:37 (one month ago) link

Have you booked a free seat under the name of your fictitious son or not?

gyac, Friday, 20 September 2019 18:40 (one month ago) link

it's not hand luggage if it's on yr head tappingtemple.gif

mark s, Friday, 20 September 2019 18:45 (one month ago) link

Matt D’Ancona sacked by The Guardian, reportedly for not being sufficiently right-wing.

ShariVari, Sunday, 22 September 2019 13:50 (one month ago) link

announce guido

stoffle (||||||||), Sunday, 22 September 2019 13:53 (one month ago) link

They'll call him back when Ruth Davidson becomes PM

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 22 September 2019 13:59 (one month ago) link

No really, I'd do the gig, for my usual rates.

— Guido Fawkes (@GuidoFawkes) September 22, 2019

gyac, Sunday, 22 September 2019 14:03 (one month ago) link

He’s like those never trumper columnists in the US. Constituencies of, at most, dozens of people but massively over represented in the op ed section of liberal papers. They allow centrists to feel warm and fuzzy about there being adults in the room on “both sides” and nothing changes. 100% fine with him being fired and replaced with someone whose views are consistent with modern mainstream conservatism (I a headbanger).

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 22 September 2019 16:55 (one month ago) link

A week late, but the tale of the man with his unlimited air pass reminded me a bit of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/sep/14/starting-a-business-has-made-me-a-lot-more-frugal

It's a piece on lawyer and campaigner Steve Wardlaw.

"I might be what some might call “wealthy” but bizarrely I’ve become a lot more frugal since starting my own business a few years ago. I’m more conscious that money has to last. I’m also trying to make sure other people are provided for. I want my nieces to go to university and the cost of that will fall to me.
...
Our Kent property is a converted oast house, which has three chimneys and looks like a cross between a hobbit house and a Disney princess’s castle. It’s lovely, you open the back door and you see nothing but fields. I bought it for £610,000 and it’s probably worth north of £1m now. We spent about £200,000 renovating it, which involved moving a few walls, adding a dog-friendly shower room, and a new staircase.
...
(My partner) also collects Doctor Who memorabilia and Egyptian artefacts. For our wedding we each bought a picture for the other – two of a set of 50 by the artists Jake and Dinos Chapman, who took a series of original Goya etchings and over-painted them to look like grotesque cartoons. My mother hates them!"

If this was the internet I would arrange the text into one of those 4Chan "Mr Bones' Wild Ride" montages with DOG-FRIENDLY SHOWER ROOM repeated several times.

Ashley Pomeroy, Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:44 (one month ago) link

"100% fine with him being fired and replaced with someone whose views are consistent with modern mainstream conservatism (I a headbanger)."

How is this a good thing?

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:57 (one month ago) link

I’m also fine with him fired and not being replaced.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 23 September 2019 01:51 (four weeks ago) link

I believe caek’s point is that replacing “moderate conservatives” who have no audience other than hate-readers with actual frothing bigots is at least honest.

El Tomboto, Monday, 23 September 2019 01:56 (four weeks ago) link

Right. If the token conservative is there to “represent the other side” they should at least hold the other side’s views. And the particular views dacona holds are not only representative of almost no one (and wrong), they are also especially comforting and unchallenging to centrists who don’t themselves hold these views.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 23 September 2019 02:39 (four weeks ago) link

Fair enough. I think the other side is so deranged on some issues that to even see it argued in respectable pages is to see it normalised. Ancona at least pretended to be socially liberal.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 23 September 2019 22:21 (four weeks ago) link

Otm. Guardian is a fucking mess for even caring about publishing more right wing opinions tbh, when most right wing publications will never publish anyone left of Hugo Rifkind.

gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 22:23 (four weeks ago) link

the "comforting carbon monoxide leak" vibe that center right commentators give off to center left people is a huge practical problem in the US (where i live now). it's perhaps a bit less of a problem in the UK, and the danger of platforming the further right opinions might be more salient in that context.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 23 September 2019 22:36 (four weeks ago) link

"comforting carbon monoxide leak"

^ this is in quotes because i said it. sorry i can't write.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 23 September 2019 22:37 (four weeks ago) link

the "comforting carbon monoxide leak" vibe that center right commentators give off to center left people is a huge practical problem in the US (where i live now). it's perhaps a bit less of a problem in the UK, and the danger of platforming the further right opinions might be more salient in that context.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek),

Its a big problem in UK and a major contributory factor in fracture between public and media. Over-representation of "Tory Remainers", or socially liberal / economically conservative, or whatever you call them - inverse of actual centre ground. Illusion of this group being larger than is actually the case, and having to cater to it, this

Its like the creation of a 'palatable opponent' that you can have polite disagreement with, but to what end? what is the point of this? Give us the real deal or don't bother

anvil, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 00:23 (four weeks ago) link


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