Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

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My feeling is: Yes, somewhat. But Regular Readers will recall that I am a curmudgeon who doesn't like New Things. So do they really want to agree with me here? Plus, we do have (somewhere round here) a house Guardian expert whose opinion would be interesting.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Some readers might, conceivably, like to know that the Guardian (formerly Manchester Guardian) is a UK daily newspaper which has for several decades been the main print source / gathering-point, as it were, for those on 'The Liberal Left'. Many UK ILE posters, I imagine, know it very well and have done for many years, so I thought there might be some opinions around.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the Guardian now more than I have for years. Perhaps the restyle of the mag helped, but generally the Burchill thing works for me and I haven't noticed a drop in quality elsewhere. The Guide has always been shite (and I say that working for PA Listings) but the rest seems cool. Can you specify what's gone wrong for you?

chris, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate the Guardian - particularly the G2 section, with it's crappy 'think' pieces, terrible arts reviews and smug phillistinism - and have bought it every weekday and Saturdays for at least the last fifteen years. Because, being a bleeding heart liberal and a news junkie, I couldn't bring myself to read any of the other rags (morning papers are somehow part of my going to work coping ritual.) I flirted with the Independent for a while - and the IOS still has the great film critic David Thomson writing for 'em - but I found it to be even more boring than the Guardian. I suspect that I am far from alone in all this, and that the Guardian survives on the unearned good will of the liberal middle classes.

Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time Out anymore.

Andrew L, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I've never actually bought a copy of the Guardian, if I did buy a newspaper I'd get the Telegraph, it has a good weather section, obituaries, world news briefs and I like the sports section.

james e l, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I suppose the short answer is 'Trivialization'. One has to be a tad careful using a word like that, because, for instance,

1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);

2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know) JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd- pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way (that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what have you).

It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang their heads in shame.

A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing? Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew L: I know what you mean - the Labour party factor of Nowhere Else To Go? (And brand loyalty, or whatever you want to call it.) There's actually a Verso book out (yet?) which makes a massive attack on the Guardian as home of neo-conservative (ie New Labour) ideas. I find this rather unconvincing and overstated. Even offensive, come to think of it.

I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson. There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people who know what they think about him already know it all and would just send in superlatives.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew L, and indeed everyone: cut em loose and let em drown in their own smug laziness!! I stopped buying it a YEAR ago FOREVER and now buy NO NEWSPAPER and am FREE. (Actually I too buy saturday for the guide — and for the food page in the mag, but the mag redesign is utter shit, and the recipes are in fact on long recycle: eg I have seen Lady Llandower's Duck three times now, always copied (of course) from Elizabeth David Salt, Spices and Aromatics...) The age of the newspaper is dead.

mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Something has clearly gone wrong with G2: the other week they ran a page-long feature on the phenomenon of "Jumping the shark" (referring to that moment when a long-running tv fave finally loses the plot completely, apparently derived from a late episode of Happy Days where Fonzie, yes, jumped a shark). This was all well and good (except it was inane and ripped off from a website [this is a whole other can of worms]), but they ran an almost IDENTICAL story in the Guide not two weeks previously. Do they not read their own paper, or did they simply think the readers wouldn't notice?

What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)

What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.

stevie t, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché pies really. (Pinefox)

I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover (and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality stories day in day out though.

David, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Stevie: agree about Steve Bell, of course. I mean, if only for the sake of 1981 and all that. But actually, he draws and paints better now.

I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces, come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young. Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even glib - to call someone glib.)

Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes? How could I forget David Lacey?

BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to look aged and thus wise.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with much of what's been said. After Mark Steel and Jeremy Hardy went, it didn't seem as essential anymore. The Observer's the same - just dear old Phil Hogan that still makes me go down the shops Sunday morning

jamesmichaelward, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

My parents used to get a subscription to the Guardian shipped to them for the first few years they were in the States, because they couldn't trust the US Media. The Guardian just isn't the same when it's not printed on that semi-transluscent airmail paper.

I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has been particularly helpful lately... ;-)

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Steve Bell is a GOD but apart from that I read it largely out of having nowhere else to go and a worry that I'll become totally detached from the world if I don't read any newspapers at all. I think it might have marginally improved with the loss of Messrs. Hardy and Steel though. Everything they wrote was just as predictable and smug as any of the other writers mentioned above, only with a more left wing stance.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't read anything except the Spectator. Hey Chris, if you work for PA Listings then that means you're in the same building as me.

tarden, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The Guide last week (or was it the week before) had that BRILLIANT article slamming not just the Strokes, but the entire music hype industry... VERY funny because it was so clearly written by an insider who had been participating in the music hype game for so long.

masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd love to comment, but those Observer commissions are keeping me out of the poor house. Anything appearing in the Guardian or the Obs by my deepest and dearest friends is obviously genius...

Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

As bad as the Guardian may have become, it's still better than the so-called "best" American newspapers. Or, if you think it couldn't get worse, it could end up becoming The New York Times or The Washington Post.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Reynard's right about the amount of trivial toss that gets in there. Mark's also right about the decline of the newspaper in general. Reynard's spot on re. New Labour - the Guardian's frequent criticism of some Blairite attitudes is one of the great things about it.

There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's series of articles on public service under that very title were awesome.

The Hemulen Who Loved Silence, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

OK, agree with the Hemulen re. The Common Good.

Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Although Toynbee's piece on Labour post-election is admirable.

blue veils and golden sands, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Broadly I agree with her, yes. It feels a wee bit ironic given her immediately-pre-election pieces telling everyone how urgent it was to overcome apathy and vote for the people she's now criticizing. (But actually I think she was right both times.)

Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.

the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

six years pass...

oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (thirteen years ago) link

"today"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (thirteen years ago) link

"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"

Martin McCall, by email

"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.

"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link

I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?

I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (thirteen years ago) link

dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...

CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (thirteen years ago) link

It went downhill after I left.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link

or were you PUSHED?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg

heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)

CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (thirteen years ago) link

i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (thirteen years ago) link

Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (thirteen years ago) link

i couldn't agree less

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.

I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.

This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:

http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (thirteen years ago) link

why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (thirteen years ago) link

I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?

Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

because you're cold xp

tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?

x-post

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

given to you = not you buying

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (thirteen years ago) link

you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.

because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste

Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.

Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link

i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.

a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link

my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.

this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.

it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit

Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link

the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!

alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link

is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (thirteen years ago) link

Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."

If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.

I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.

Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (thirteen years ago) link

> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.

*SOBS*

> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?

EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)

koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (thirteen years ago) link

I also take my birthday off and we are also expected to bring back post-holiday sweeties (never pre, though, that’s savagery ffs).

scampo italiano (gyac), Monday, 7 September 2020 12:46 (three weeks ago) link

Take as long as you want off, the cake debt will be waiting when you return.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 7 September 2020 14:38 (three weeks ago) link

much prefer it when no-one knows it is/ it's been your birthday until you dump a box of brownies on the table. one workplace (not in uk) used to have monthly birthday cake to celebrate everyone's birthday it was that month and everyone had to gather in the break room to sing happy birthday to the list of birthday-havers.

kinder, Monday, 7 September 2020 14:43 (three weeks ago) link

A friend once caused an office scandal by emailing everyone to say "Don't buy me tortoise stuff again for Secret Santa" (It hadn't been an entirely random gift - he did have a tortoise).

djh, Monday, 7 September 2020 16:01 (three weeks ago) link

It remains unusually bad and nonsensical that ZW is writing about missing the office, on behalf of people not in the office, when she didn't work in the office anyway.

the pinefox, Monday, 7 September 2020 16:21 (three weeks ago) link

The Guardian can't be all bad if it cites beloved ILXors:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/07/beethoven-was-black-why-the-radical-idea-still-has-power-today

pomenitul, Monday, 7 September 2020 20:25 (three weeks ago) link

Citing mark s is good not bad, but it’s the exception that proves the rule.

scampo italiano (gyac), Monday, 7 September 2020 20:53 (three weeks ago) link

This:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/05/michel-faber-i-dont-read-fiction-any-more

Sad when it gets to his wife but I don't know how someone who seems to find getting through a book a chore ends up reviewing the stuff.

Of course you can pretty much get a handle on a book while you've read quite a lot of it, but this culture is so crazy around forming an opinion after you've finished something..

"You really don’t read fiction?
I used to review for the Guardian, partly to force myself to read a book from beginning to end: my usual practice from when I was 18 onwards was to just read maybe 15 pages [of a novel] to get a sense of how the author handled nuts-and-boltsy things like pace and description. Eventually I did think it was important, sometimes, to read the whole book, and [reviewing was] handy in that sense. Then when my wife, Eva, died… she was a great reader of fiction. She would read the books I was reviewing and we would talk about them. When that side of my life went, there didn’t seem any point any more."

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:56 (two weeks ago) link

An author who isn't a reader seems like a contradiction but then The Book of Strange New Things is one of the worst novels I've ever read so perhaps in his case it's not so surprising.

neith moon (ledge), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 13:07 (two weeks ago) link

I on the other hand read a lot and can't write a decent sentence.

neith moon (ledge), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 13:08 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah never mind actually writing the stuff. There was one twitter thread that was asking something like "do you have to be a reader to write?". I tried to forget it as soon as I saw it.

From what he is saying Faber got some mechanics out of it. That's perhaps a good angle to review something if you've assimilated an idea of correct technique and judged a book using that. Interested in how he landed the job in the first place.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 13:41 (two weeks ago) link

ZW keeps going.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/brexit-opposition-government-decline-politics-division

Isn't this the reverse of what she, and many other anti-Brexit people, said from 2016-2019?

In ZW's particular case I don't think that was from reactionary hatred of JC. But from many other people, who are also now keenly accepting Brexit, it was.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:00 (two weeks ago) link

the likes of ZW and these Remainiac pricks got exactly what they wanted and it wasn't stopping brexit, it was thwarting the last chance we had for a centre-left govt for a generation. Because in the final analysis they are a bunch of m/c tory cunts no less. Sorry for the classism .. not all etc.

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:10 (two weeks ago) link

I mean Corbz/McD probably made enough bad decisions to doom "the project" themselves but the amount of energy these bullshit melts spent chipping away at them for years probably played its own part.

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:19 (two weeks ago) link

ZW was on radio 4 this morning being consulted as an expert on um i dunno work or life or something?

Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:23 (two weeks ago) link

People being meaner to each other and more judgmental these days.

Madchen, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:46 (two weeks ago) link

oh yes, she saw someone looking angry getting out of an uber.

Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:51 (two weeks ago) link

can't believe as the hated United Kingdom reaches its long overdue death and millions more people are thrown into abject poverty while naked bigotry and hatred is openly celebrated across the media that people are being meaner and more judgemental

A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:53 (two weeks ago) link

if people had only been kinder and less judgemental to fascists in the 1930s

A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:55 (two weeks ago) link

apparently the "eat out to help out" scheme also meant that coarse working class people were going to restaurants and talking too loudly.

Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:57 (two weeks ago) link

What was Zoe doing in a Spoons?

A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 14:59 (two weeks ago) link

Please replace all the ppl we hate with this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/robot-wrote-this-article-gpt-3

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 15:05 (two weeks ago) link

An old friend who writes about poker and horse racing said he lost some work at Betfair to AI.

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 15:12 (two weeks ago) link

GPT3 is better than most Graun columnists tbfttai

A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 15:13 (two weeks ago) link

https://twitter.com/TheTrashiesUK/status/1303359484430082055?s=20

ffs!

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 15:54 (two weeks ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhZ2aGHWAAAH-Oh?format=jpg&name=medium

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 15:54 (two weeks ago) link

Were there *any* Remain organisations in 2016-19 that weren't an astroturfed, anti-socialist con? https://t.co/FhJHOtjuIg

— Juliet. (@zinovievletter) September 8, 2020



Here's looking at you Zoe

calzino, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 16:06 (two weeks ago) link

some of them were pretty spontaneous and sincere, the liberal middle classes were happy to embarrass themselves without particularly engaging in or being led astray by all this backstage chicanery. it ends up looking like a conspiracy anyway when they have no real interest in noticing or opposing it either

... (Left), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 17:54 (two weeks ago) link

some were even vaguely anti racist before the guardian/cameron crowd totally swamped them

... (Left), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 17:59 (two weeks ago) link

I assume robots would be more consistent.

“This attempt to rewrite history is beneath you.” pic.twitter.com/mpyXy75IDR

— The Trashies (@TheTrashiesUK) September 8, 2020

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:29 (two weeks ago) link

I suppose a funny thing about ZW, writing all these supposedly insightful and practical articles about what politicians should do, is -- she has never been a politician. She wouldn't really have a clue how to do any of it in reality.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 11:21 (two weeks ago) link

To quote Dr Johnson, I've never been a carpenter but I know a wonky table when I see one

A Short Film About Scampoes (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 11:41 (two weeks ago) link

I would distinguish between

a) values - we don't need to be politicians to see the government is evil
b) strategies - I don't feel able to advise politicians on how to defeat the government.

I think we can all do a) but ZW falsely assumes that she can do b) as well.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:22 (two weeks ago) link

This terrible tweet worth it for the responses.

The latest genre of sub-tweeting seems to be "Lady! Office is mysterious space! Must work full time in one to understand one! Going into one probably once a week not count! Full mystery only understood by me, super understandy man!" https://t.co/RnwqObkHZa

— (((Zoe Williams))) (@zoesqwilliams) September 8, 2020

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:26 (two weeks ago) link

if we were going to guess which newspaper might leap to the defence of JK

https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/sep/15/rowling-troubled-blood-thriller-robert-galbraith-review

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 07:38 (one week ago) link

standing shoulder to shoulder with Nick Cohen in the Spectator, always a great place to be

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 07:39 (one week ago) link

I mean so what if this transphobic writer has written a transphobic book? the tropes in there are all familiar from other transphobic books you've read before! idk what all the fuss is about. I have read this book and therefore I am qualified to tell you all that you haven't read it, so you should be quiet and stop making us feel uncomfortably aware of our transphobia.

这是我的显示名称 (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 16 September 2020 08:01 (one week ago) link

The grotesque pretence that You Can't Say This Sort Of Thing In The Guardian Anymore, when for twenty-five years The Guardian has been the house journal of saying This Sort Of Thing. https://t.co/IvqZwQEwQ8

— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) September 19, 2020

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 19 September 2020 13:33 (one week ago) link

I knew you’d link this. Easily one of the worst people to work for the Guardian.

scampo italiano (gyac), Saturday, 19 September 2020 13:37 (one week ago) link

at least we still get her Woody Allen apologism and thoughts on Jared Kushner's botox in between the transphobic pieces in the "lefty" graun!

calzino, Saturday, 19 September 2020 13:43 (one week ago) link

at least it's not the Telegraph eh?

how do i shot moon? (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 19 September 2020 14:10 (one week ago) link

She’s such an arsehole. She and her incredibly rich family are the only living people I can think of who’ve paid to have their own bench in Holland Park.

santa clause four (suzy), Saturday, 19 September 2020 14:15 (one week ago) link

Lol pvmic

plax (ico), Saturday, 19 September 2020 14:47 (one week ago) link

<3

plax (ico), Saturday, 19 September 2020 14:48 (one week ago) link

Kind of a relief to see Freeman writing for The Spec tbh - get in your lane dingbat

nashwan, Saturday, 19 September 2020 14:54 (one week ago) link

When I click on that Freeman link the page shows a load of 'similar Tweets' (in effect) below and they are things like Kate Hoey, Brexit Party, John Redwood. That's literally the algorithmic company Freeman's keeping now.

I agree with Nashwan, I'd rather see her in the Spectator than getting credibility from publishing anywhere else.

the pinefox, Saturday, 19 September 2020 15:04 (one week ago) link

Christ, her actual article is even worse than I expected - it's a 'diary column' or something.

It states: 'I am an innate people-pleaser'.

the pinefox, Saturday, 19 September 2020 15:07 (one week ago) link

Toynbee is back on the 'Labour patriotism' sauce https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/22/starmer-challenge-defeat-tories-patriotism-labour

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 September 2020 06:58 (six days ago) link

Slightly more voters trust Labour on Covid than don’t trust them, but the pandemic should be long over by the next election in 2024.

Did anyone else get a horrible sinking feeling reading this coming from Toynbee?

Matt DC, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 07:12 (six days ago) link

https://i.redd.it/h6mnve5xce651.png

cherry blossom, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 07:26 (six days ago) link


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