Is this anti-semitism?

that's extremely sad

Ugh, that makes me feel queasy.

It just really gets to me. I have spent my whole life thinking of anti-semitism in the US as a spent and inherently marginal force and now I realize that if Trump has an anti-Semite friend and he gets dinged in the news for it, either millions and millions of people are going to say "I guess that anti-semitism stuff is worth a closer look!"

even you were daft/self-hating/downright racist enough to believe in the Judeo-Bolshevik myth, perhaps maybe the disproportionate amount of prominent party Jews that got murdered in the 30's by Stalin would test the theory a bit, maybe?

if they put all volumes of the Victor Klemperer Dairies on the school curriculum this old poison wouldn't get as much traction

well probably a bit fanciful, but maybe an abridged version instead of Anne Frank.

i believe some people really are bad at heart

I think there's nothing new about Jewish apology for antisemitism though -- it happened in 1920s Germany too!

I vaguely remember a news story, maybe last year about a Jewish nurse or hospital worker in NYC who was posting in antisemitic forums and saying all kinds of self-hating stuff about Jews

Jewish kapos were a thing.

I think there's nothing new about Jewish apology for antisemitism though -- it happened in 1920s Germany too!

"don't get worked up it's nothing they didn't have in interwar Germany" is not exactly comforting my dude

If it helps any (it doesn't), I think I saw a debunking of that Guardian article that explained how the actual survey questions were being distorted in the reporting. Can't find it from vague googling at the mo.

I am 100% less troubled by that Guardian survey than I am by the thought that my acquaintance's new take on Jews is probably typical of the tens-of-millions-strong Trumpsophere. "They kind of deserved it" is a level worse than "It wasn't as bad as they say."

tbf, the typical undertone of "it wasn't as bad as they say" is "but it should have been"

I mean it's not even quite that coherent, it's sort of like "The Jews deserved the holocaust, which didn't happen." It's sort of like abuser logic.

I seem to recall there being an ultra-Orthodox reading of the Shoah according to which it happened because Jews strayed from true Judaism.

Is that related somehow to the ultra-Orthodox rejection of Zionism?

Not quite, but someone who is more knowledgeable on this can correct me if I'm wrong. I think they take issue with Zionism because the Messiah who is meant to gather the Jews back to Israel has yet to arrive, according to them, so they view present-day Israel as a secular, impatient perversion of traditional eschatology (or some such). Of course, there is no shortage of self-professed messiahs in Orthodox Judaism…

Thanks!

Fucking hell.

Joanna, what are your thoughts on the following tweets from Sarah Phillimore?
Comparing Jewish people to dogs, threatening to burn down a synagogue, suggesting Jewish people lacked "common sense"to leave Nazi Germany & comparing trans people to the Holocaust.
Is this acceptable? pic.twitter.com/6asZRN0z0I

— David Paisley (@DavidPaisley) January 26, 2021

My thoughts are that no one including you Mr Paisley should weaponise the Holocaust for their own ends. It is far too serious for that & an insult to the memory of those who died. Should you wish to educate yourself please read this book by @philippesands pic.twitter.com/aLNX80oWZJ

— Joanna Cherry QC (@joannaccherry) January 26, 2021

I do not believe a trans woman is a woman. You cannot change biology whatever you believe.

The tweets I posted contained nothing that any reasonable person could describe as 'hatred'

Here's Sarah P not being hateful in her crowd fund to have a record of her hate deleted.
Note this was pre twitter jail so she also claims twitter don't believe her tweets violate t&cs

Should I know who Sarah Phillimore is?

The context:

Joanna, it was Sarah Phillimore who weaponised the Holocaust.

Here she is comparing trans rights to the Holocaust and harassing a trans person whose relatives died.

Do you support this kind of language? Why do you support this person, both online and financially? pic.twitter.com/tWVdJZzGv6

— David Paisley (@DavidPaisley) January 26, 2021

xp

No :)

She's a barrister who's frequently outspoken on trans issues and has made an arse of herself with holocaust comparisons.

anti-Semitism and transphobia does not seem to have put Joanna Cherry off of supporting her.

Yes, I see it's really about Joanna Cherry.

... who does have an existence outside of Twitter.

The account above seems to indicate financially too, but don’t know enough about it.

It's a trans issue that morphed into an AS issue. Worrying that Cherry seems to be one of many who profess progressiveness but are happy to turn a blind eye (or worse) to this shit.

There’s an... interesting correlation where a lot of the higher profile transphobes are also antisemites, like full-on Soros conspiracists, and as per that now banned account not above likening terfs to Jews in 40s Germany. Magdal3n B3rns (in hell) was one of these people, think on that the next time you see someone rather more mainstream praise her.

joanna cherry is a full-on transphobe, has been forever, doesn't even pretend not to be, and is one of the uk politicians most committed to destroying trans rights. not surprising that she'd turn a blind eye to blatant anti-semitism like that when there's anti-semitic conspiracy shit is pretty common from transphobes these days as gyac mentioned

my guess is the financial support is that cherry donated to phillimore's crowd funder for her legal antics (attempting to sue the police because someone reported her tweets as hate speech to them)

these people believe in "degeneracy" and many have specifically denied that nazis targeted trans and queer people

Fear of a 'rootless' gender.

Relevant:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Geschlecht#German

this seems fairly sound and relevant
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4188-the-eradication-of-talmudic-abstractions-anti-semitism-transmisogyny-and-the-national-socialist-project

I'm not sure about the almost exclusive focus on the value-form although there is clearly something to the postonean analysis of antisemitism even if it's not the whole picture (but I need to read the referenced essay "the logic of gender")

Since this is the "is this anti-semitism" thread, I would say that the S Phillimore tweets quoted above are (to my Jewish eye) clearly driven by anti-trans fervor, not anti-Semitism. "Can't it be both?" -- sure, that exists, to me that would look like "Soros and the globalists are funding trans activism to undermine British womanhood. This just feels like the usual "my own personal thing I'm mad about is best thought of as the contemporary version of the Holocaust," which fucking EVERYBODY does, including plenty of Jews, I'm not saying this stuff doesn't grate on me but anti-Semitism is too strong a word for it.

In particular it's absurdly tendentious to characterize that tweet, whatever the heck it was about, as "comparing Jewish people to dogs"

xp what about the ones where she’s telling a descendant of Holocaust survivors that it’s really sad they lived to contribute to a similar regime?

It's still the anti-trans fervor driving the bus

For the moment.

It's kind of a lose-lose, either that person isn't anti-Semitic but was nonetheless keenly aware they were doling out anti-Semitic stuff for the sake of ad hominem shock, or that person *is* anti-Semitic, which would explain why they went straight to that kind of rhetorical Godwin's law dead-end extremity when any number of less incendiary insults might have done. I mean, that tweet may not compare Jews to dogs, but afaict it's comparing their *dog* to *Jews* and joking that for that reason it should therefore be left behind, which seems ... worse.

So yeah, unless better knowing who that person is provides some important context, the tweets kind of fails (passes?) the "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" test.

particularly pointless bit of hairsplitting here

that kind of "hairsplitting" is literally the explicit named purpose of this thread

any person or group that thinks or tries to raise itself above others is racist!

wtf

Another day, another xzanfar pvmic.

xps the considerable overlap between antisemitism and transphobia/homophobia/(trans/)misogyny which was under discussion makes this participar hairsplitting pointless at best

thought experiment: what if these particular bigots were Palestinian but otherwise saying the exact same things

yes

The narrative being pushed is dangerously accurate in many details, as the Frankfurt School really did want to end Western Civilization and is almost wholly comprised of Jews. This allows anti-Semites to recruit new anti-Semites *who wouldn't have otherwise been recruited*.

— James Lindsay, won't fit in your box (@ConceptualJames) February 4, 2021

Who is this person and what the heck is he talking about