Is this anti-semitism?

Jewishes?

jeweriness

my preferred term is yidden tbh

as in: "what up, yidden?"

oh no you yidden

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/israel-moves-to-ban-use-of-the-word-nazi-and-symbols-of-the-third-reich/#more-152813

Israeli traffic cops occasionally complain they’re called Nazis by the motorists they pull over.

Two weeks after ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem wore yellow stars and striped prison uniforms, invoking Nazi Germany to protest what they called their persecution by secular Israelis

Honestly, I only skimmed the article after reading this.

I find it o_O that they're more offended by ladies in immodest dress than by yellow stars and prison stripes.

I mean, I had never thought about intra-Jewish religious persecution within Israel and it's especially weird to me that the orthodox Jews would feel persecuted by the secular Jews. But I'm fairly ignorant on the whole country and probably need to go find something that would explain this tension in a stronger context.

It's not entirely unlike American evangelical christians believing that there's a war on christmas.

^^^

idk i think the $$$ angle of the whole thing is a little different

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/87611/state-of-her-own/

Just heard a story by way, once removed, of Alex Kotlowitz, journalist and co-director of "The Interrupters." I guess he had a screening for Kanye West, who was very moved and wanted to impart his wisdom to some of the underprivileged documented by the film. Namely, 1) learn to read 2) learn math and 3) learn how to get "Jew money."

Grain of salt, I suppose. But if accurate, at least Kanye's anti-semitism is complementary!

oy

http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/books/88397/framed-2/

Complementary anti-semitism?

what do you mean?

Complimetary/complementary

i have mixed opinions on mearsheimer (and not read "the israel lobby") but that article is kind of a mess, and it refers approvingly to this one, which is even worse

I remember listening to 'Talk of the Nation' or something on the subject of that book and having to turn the radio off.

Putting side the question of whether it is anti-Semitism or not, I think that Joe Klein and Thomas Friedman's comments (in Time and the NYT respectively) indicate that being critical of Israel in America is safe and mainstream. I really never want to hear again about how brave someone is for criticizing the settlements or whatever (unless it is accompanied by the first comment in history to apply that adjective to Friedman).

xpost In the scheme of anti-Semitism, depicting all Jews as successful/rich/Hollywood/lawyers/whatever is a better broad brush bad prejudice than saying, say, claiming that Jews run the world and eat babies. And yes, I meant complementary, not complimetary or whatever.

(Still bad, of course)

i think the whole "rich hollywood jews" thing ties in w/ and stems from the whole "jews run the world" thing a bit

The problem with depicting all Jews as successful/rich/Hollywood/whatever is that it's really just a skip away from saying that Jews are behind powerful conspiracies or have unrepresentative influence on politics, or any number of claims that seem cribbed from the Protocols. Also, it's one thing to say, "many famous actors are Jewish," or "There are many Jewish lawyers" and another to say that Hollywood is controlled by the Jews.

xp what omar said

All bad slurs. But, you know, Jews do have a big presence in both Hollywood and the legal profession. Was it Louis CK (probably) who had the bit about how "Jew" is one of the only legit descriptions that's also a slur? Only in the world of anti-semitism can success be a failure. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

oh to be aryan and be successful (but not *that* successful)

I think that Joe Klein and Thomas Friedman's comments (in Time and the NYT respectively) indicate that being critical of Israel in America is safe and mainstream.

i dunno if i'd go that far.

if anything my big problem with the argument of "the israel lobby" (as far as i understand it secondhand) is that, in an american context, the window of conversation is not really driven by the influential jews in american political life, so much as huge chunks of the american public having generally warm feelings toward israel for various cultural and religious reasons, and generally cold feelings toward all of israel's antagonists likewise.

I think that's otm, goole, in that the support for Israel in Congress is not from some magical AIPAC powers but more from the fact that Congress' constituents tend to be pro-Israel, often Evangelical Christians. At the same time though, there has been this self-congratulatory thing that American critics of Israel have where they pat each other on the back to be so brave as to go up against the Israel Lobby (tm). I think that when Thomas Friedman is parroting some of your talking points, there's nothing edgy or dangerous left to stating those positions. And claiming that Americans soldiers have died for Israeli interests is a huge (and self-evidently false) talking point from critics like Stephen Walt.

I read the Walt Mearshimer piece in the NYRB (LRB?) way back when, and at the time I felt like it just slightly crossed into paranoia, as sophisticated as it was. E.g. I remember there was an example or two of AIPAC allegedly torpedoing a candidate for criticism of Israel. Political campaigns are pretty complex things and I think it's often difficult to prove that a single factor is solely responsible for a campaign's death, but even if that's the case, it's then extrapolated that AIPAC has the power to do this to any candidate any time. As big as the Israel lobby is, it so happens to not be the only powerful lobby in this country and I find that picture a bit unbelievably simplistic.

I also think there's a lot of assumption to the effect that Jewish politicians who consider themselves Zionists are somehow singlemindedly focused on Israel and indifferent to American interests, which is itself an assumption tinged with anti-semitism imo.

i never think i could possibly like glenn greenwald less but he constantly finds new ways to make me dislike him
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/01/a-question-from-glenn-greenwald-updated/251705/

greenwald demonstrates well why the discussion often goes to shit and makes no progress.

wonder if greenwald ever had to say the pledge of allegiance in class

The mainstreaming of hostility toward any group of Jews leads inevitably to the mainstreaming of hostility to Jews generally.

Wait, what? Does this mean I can't loathe Likud anymore?

"A Question From Glenn Greenwald" is a hilarious title for a post

"do these jeans make my ass look anti-Semitic?"

shit abe foxman says ^

still like jeffrey goldberg less i must say

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-big-lie-returns/

In our own time, these ownership rights have become largely uncontroversial, insofar as most minorities can expect a respectful hearing when it comes to claims of racism. With the Jews, however, the reverse is now true: Claims of anti-Semitism are so often disputed, scorned, and denied outright. This state of affairs faithfully reflects the perception of the Jews as socially privileged, disproportionately represented in the fields of glamour, intellect, and finance, and—crucially—as the agency behind the dispossession of Palestine’s native Arab inhabitants.

This perception is not limited to the extreme left (nor, for that matter, to the far right, which thinks in near-identical terms). It now sits as comfortably with a traditional conservative realist like Mearsheimer as it does with many others who have had little interaction with the New Left or the Chomskyite school of international relations. It leads, furthermore, to a conclusion with a distinctly postmodern twist: Those who truly suffer from anti-Semitism today are not Jews, but those who are accused of being anti-Semitic. Those mere speakers of truth, so the thinking goes, are being made to pay for centuries of hateful prejudice.

Are you asking if that's anti-semitism?

No.

most minorities can expect a respectful hearing when it comes to claims of racism

I can't speak for the US but this seems to be not entirely true. Don't disagree with the rest of the piece tho.

It's not remotely true in the US (and probably not true anywhere else.)

I think it is true of the groups he is primarily discussing in this piece (the far left and 'traditional conservative realists').

Also, despite the title of this thread, I figure discussions about anti-Semitism are appropriate here. Silly to start an entirely new thread for them.

The origin of this warped thinking lies in the left’s commitment to anticolonialism following the Second World War.

o i c

I think the piece is pretty silly myself. Gilad Atzmon is an anti-semite, John Mearsheimer blurbed his book, therefore Mearsheimer's book is anti-semitic, also Mearsheimer's not true because other prominent journalists are now saying the same thing and getting away with it.

Gilad Atzmon is an anti-semite, John Mearsheimer blurbed his book, therefore Mearsheimer's book is anti-semitic

Yeah, this is not his argument.