South Park: Classic or Dud?

The only people who would be that greatly affected by a cartoon with an inability to question the characters and writing

once more for the cheap seats: no one is saying this

and yet cartman being all “come at me bro” and sobbing when he’s weakly hit = still the best critique of how republicans operate in the public sphere that i’ve seen

― maura, Wednesday, June 13, 2018 12:11 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Really? If that's the best critique of republicans operating in the public sphere, then good luck usa, because you are in dire need of a proper critique of said republicans in said public sphere. SP isn't anywhere near properly criticizing republicans. It's a republican show at heart.

xpost But yeah, Old Lunch otm and yes to reality tv being way worse.

I'd probably be wise to save it for the controversial opinions thread if I were willing to expend much energy on the argument, but I feel like SP is one of the less ideologically-aligned popular enertainments out there inasmuch as it is willing to present differing viewpoints on a given topic (even if it is ultimately in the service of skewering one or all of the viewpoints presented). Like, whatever P&S's personal ideological slant may be, it's hard to argue that they're shoveling out propaganda for just their ideology.

(Unless you focus on their treatment of ecological issues, which seems to be invariably dunderheaded.)

South Park has been shoveling out alt-right propaganda for at least a decade now. C'mon man. xp

I just had to re-read this to figure out what point was really trying to be made and also now annoyed because I thought new episodes were out.

it is willing to present differing viewpoints on a given topic (even if it is ultimately in the service of skewering one or all of the viewpoints presented)

lol how is this different from when Fox News brings on a "liberal" commentator

kinda sad you've fallen for their "both sidesism" bullshit as some kind of objective presentation of opposing views, c'mon now

xp

I agree that the show's politics aren't as simple as its detractors argue, esp the later/more recent seasons, but I got tired enough of the weird/bad takes to eventually lose interest

I wouldn't describe myself as a fan of South Park - I've seen episodes and laughed (hard) at some points but I've also found a lot it gross for the sake of being gross and I find its lack of position ultimately empty. I haven't really paid attention in years.

When South Park first came out in the UK, it was around the millenium and I had just started high school. The guys - and it was predominantly boys - who were into South Park majorly were guys who were into Eminem, nu-metal, Jackass, and so on. They were all dicks, vicious bullies. They didn't understand the satire and layers of irony: they saw the cruelty and crudeness and ran with it. We had a boy at school whose surname was commonly mistaken for "Cheesy" and so spent four years being called "Cheesey Poof."

Of course South Park isn't to blame for this any more than any of the other stuff that was big with this audience was - teenage boys are little bastards, generally, and feelings of anger and entitlement are as much about adolescence as they are about personality and nature. But it was what put me off watching it for so long. Now I'm older I can see that these cultural totems like Cartman and Fred Durst didn't create the environment, they just tapped into what was there and amplified it - "there's a million others just like me, who just don't give a fuck like me" and so on. I think basically, a lot of things like this show over the past fifteen-twenty years have legitimised the rise of the alt-right, many in ways that weren't intended or anticipated.

Shakes, I won't pretend that they aren't biased but like I mentioned, the only real take I can think of them hammering home without much wavering is 'caring about the environment is dum, lol'. More often, the perspective seems to be that the people arguing any side of an argument are often at least a little wrong and stupid, which I find hard to argue with. I mean, just look at this argument, for gosh sakes.

I will acknowledge that I've probably only been able to watch the show because it doesn't influence my existing opinions one way or another. They can savage liberals 'til the cows come home and I will still proudly cry my big fat gleaming libtears afterwards.

(Also nb, I haven't watched SP in like five years so I don't even know why I'm participating so heavily rn.)

xp I mean I'm aware I'm doing a bit of reaching here and tying the show to broader trends in culture but nothing exists in a vacuum etc

Shakey and frogbs otmfm throughout this thread revive. I still retain some residual affection for the show's earlier seasons, with it having premiered when I was 14 (or almost the exact age when a prospective cishet white male would be most receptive to it) and by aiming so broadly they occasionally hit a target right on the nose even today, but on balance I think the effects of South Park's mishmash of frat-boy libertarianism and know-nothing nihilism on the broader pop cultural discourse - with the fact that it's a comedy providing just the right veneer of plausible deniability for all sorts of bullshit - have been bad ones.

tying the show to broader trends in culture

thank you and don't apologize, because this is my point. Yes Fred Durst songs and Cartman didn't create this dynamic, but the people that created them did so willfully and unapologetically, they capitalized on it and encouraged it. so fuck them.

the only real take I can think of them hammering home without much wavering

I refer you to every single depiction of an asian ever

(on SP that is)

"Prospective (cishet white male) fan," I mean (xxxp).

white guys getting off on consequence-free transgression
^this

their treatment of ecological issues
^and this

i've def snickered at SP over the years and i could prob ignore Parker & Stone's run-of-the-mill libertarian douchery, but honestly before them who with any kind of 'hip' cultural prestige else was "dunking" on climate science? it was just talk radio loons and industry planted op eds? mostly?

obviously the internet and Fox news would've happened anyway, but "South Park Conservatism" was/ is definitely a thing, and it definitely informed what has festered on 4-chan et al.

I refer you to every single depiction of an asian ever

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, June 12, 2018 5:57 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I thought of that one immediately after posting.

I just saw the latest Johnny Knoxville movie and he looks like a walking cadaver sapped of any joy contractually obligated to re-break every bone in his already broken body and was wondering why do that to yourself and then I remembered oh yeah Matt and Trey are still making South Park

Depicting asians in a nuanced, positive light has only started happening in US pop culture in the last 42 minutes. But whatever, this has turned into a "why are white men (in the US) so entirely messed up" thread. Carry on.

The show’s racism towards asians is super aggressive, it isnt exactly Happy Days

Yeah, it's consistently ott and indefensible.

When I was in high school this show normalized people calling others “Jews”.

the baseline requirement for complete alignment with one's own POV before enjoying or appreciating satire is ..... pathetic

end of, m8s. end of.

wait but did we get this sorted or

So much more work goes into cultivating an identity now than in 1997.

People aren't dumber or more credulous than they were in the decades before but establishing personal truths and having them reinforced by social structures and discourse, was undoubtedly a more straightforward affair then than now.

South Park wasn't the cause of this but its slanted political nihilism was made all the more seductive as a result.

sorry m8 end of invoked m8

Yeah but what if.... I ignore you?

Scrolling thru upthread, I see that this (like so many on ILX) is a perennial argument which is frequently resurrected but seldom resolved.

When I was in high school this show normalized people calling others “Jews”.

same, but for middle school

I get that SP only exploited something that was already there but I'm pretty sure a good dozen ppl referring to me as "you fuckin' Jew" came directly from show

I went back and skimmed through the thread too and:

although the person I know who appears to be the biggest fan of the South Park depiction of Asians is Taiwanese-American; he constantly quotes "our penis VERY SMALL" at people

LOL I'm Taiwanese American too (and grew up in chinese restaurants). I think maybe taiwanese americans are just assholes. Ha!

Incidentally I've started a King Of The Hill rewatch and the way the race issues are dealt with show that you can discuss stereotypes and bigotry for laughs without being so obviously problematic

Yes, I think it's fair to say that pretty much any topic under the sun could be handled with more nuance and sensitivity than is afforded by Parker and Stone.

https://etcanada.com/news/374481/catholic-league-president-hits-out-at-south-park-bosses-over-child-abuse-episode-cowards/

“The October 3rd episode of ‘South Park,’ titled ‘A Boy and a Priest,’ portrayed molesting priests as pedophiles. This is factually inaccurate: almost all the molesters–8 in 10–have been homosexuals."

'Sorry meant poof not pedo'

His message read, “The October 3rd episode of ‘South Park,’ titled ‘A Boy and a Priest,’ portrayed molesting priests as pedophiles. This is factually inaccurate: almost all the molesters–8 in 10–have been homosexuals.

“Therefore, the cartoon-victim characters should have been depicted as adolescents, not kids.

Yeah, this is a villain in a Mr Show sketch

oh yeah there's a new series! cool. the last series was decent

watching this series. the priest episode is amazing.

idk how they managed to fit that much nuance and sympathy into a character study in a 20-minute crappily-animated comedy show

old lunch up there carping about nuance and sensitivity - well, there ya go

Scroll up, bubby. I've been one of their bigger defenders itt.

fair - but then you should acknowledge when they do something that great! the final scene is exquisite

(I would still stand by that post as a general thing but I acknowledge that they are able to transcend their general tendency and deliver a 'You're Getting Old' when they're of a mind.)

FWIW, your recent revive has made me wanna play catch-up.

i have the sense they're of a mind more than usual - both first two episodes of this season are really good

i’ve really enjoyed this season so far

these are good signs. Going to dive back in for this season.

Haven't watched it (or really wanted to) in years, but a friend recommended the Tegridy episode. When Randy puts the hat on Stan...dying.

YES and the payoff to that bit is amazing