Can someone explain Ayn Rand to me?!

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err the thread title says it all..who/what is Ayn Rand and should I be worried that Alan Greenspan's a fan?!

Maimonides (Maimonides), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:36 (twenty years ago) link

if you like reading the very badly and artlessly written psychopathic rape and murder fantasies of a very mentally disturbed person, then ayn's fer you.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:41 (twenty years ago) link

sounds lovely :S, isn't she just intellectual cover for the 'greed is good' and 'wipe out the prole scum' crowd?

Maimonides (Maimonides), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:44 (twenty years ago) link

She's fucking evil!

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:47 (twenty years ago) link

so the general consensus is Ayn Rand=Anti Christ?

Maimonides (Maimonides), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:52 (twenty years ago) link

Buy some Rush albums.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link

She's a self-proclaimed "right-wing extremist".
In one of her book she goes on about how everything would fall apart if the patron class (whom in a intellectually dishonest move she tries to gratuitously associate with scientists, creative artists and other intellectuals) would go on strike.
Yesterday I saw "Bread and Roses" by Ken Loach, it's like an anti-ayn rand movie.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:26 (twenty years ago) link

She was also used as an apologist and rent-a-soundbite person for the beastly Soviet regime in the days of yore.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link

Randroids and their basic philosophy can be summed up thusly:

We are free to screw you over.

Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:33 (twenty years ago) link

Gravel pits have never been the same for me.

I wish I wasn't weak and helped people.

jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:40 (twenty years ago) link

Bread and Roses is the title of an autobiography of one of the earliest NZ women mps. You should read it if you liked that film She did live an heroic and interesting life (but some people can't forget that she didn't raise her voice against the 1980s Labour government, which vigourously pursued a lot of right wing ideals).

isadora (isadora), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:42 (twenty years ago) link

Remember that comment by a certain Republican who, while discussing progressive taxes for the wealthy, said: "Why should we penalize the best people?" That was a deeply Randish comment. To get really over-reductive about it: she had A Bad Experience with communism. In what some might call a bout of over-reaction she feel madly in love with the "absolute freedom" sense of capitalism and the west and a sort of Social-Darwinist sense of "the best people" shall lead us / and them we shall aspire to be. . . . And so now hardcore libertarians -- i.e. the kind for whom it's not a concrete political issue but a deep-down philosophical and moral and ethical thing -- they love Rand like nobody's business.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 15 December 2003 01:52 (twenty years ago) link

ha, i once broke up with a girl in college because she joined an Ayn Rand study group and changed in frightening ways.

jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:56 (twenty years ago) link

Rand did name herself after her typwriter though, i always found that endearing

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:57 (twenty years ago) link

someone should post the Rand-lover dating site here for Maimonides!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:58 (twenty years ago) link

someone should post a link to this thread on the Rand-lover dating site

man, Monday, 15 December 2003 01:59 (twenty years ago) link

Is any of her stuff like, actually worth reading or is it just annoying?

I remember reading about that one that says altruism debases a human being (the Virtue Of Selfishness, or something) and being mildly interested.

Fug (Ferg), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

she was a ho

Vic (Vic), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:14 (twenty years ago) link

her "philosophy" is sort of half-baked nietzsche, watered/dumbed down for yer typical 1950s flannel-wearing businessman type. you should go to the old school source if you want the hardcore altruism/judeo-christianity/philistine bashing.

her appeal nowadays is sorta like rage against the machine, only for young republicans.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link

The same-sex functions of that Randroid dating site amused me no end, given Ayn's hostility to homosexuality.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link

oh yeah -- you can take the girl outta russia, but you can't take the russia outta the girl. i.e., the movie version of the fountainhead was aesthetically just stalinist socialist realist-brutalism with the good guys and the bad guys flip-flopped.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:20 (twenty years ago) link

nabisco otm about her 'bad experience;' her family was bourguois (factory owners i think) and did poorly under the soviets. afaik, they walked out of russia through georgia (yes walked) and eventually ended up in the u.s.; she kept going on to hollywood, where other people who walked out of europe built a paradise and an empire in a generation. so yeah, extremes!

did anyone see that hbo movie with helen mirren as rand?

g--ff (gcannon), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

Rand was nothing like Nietzsche.

Dan I., Monday, 15 December 2003 03:16 (twenty years ago) link

Rand was the cartoon version of the cartoon version of Nietzsche.

If you want to read her fiction, try Anthem, a short book that can be read in 45 minutes. Should be enough.

fletrejet, Monday, 15 December 2003 03:32 (twenty years ago) link

If you want to piss off "Objectivists" or whatever name the dorks call themselves, call her ANN Rand. That really pisses them off.
Say it. It's fun. Then they go, "It's not ANN Rand, it's AYE-N Rand."

Then, I say, "Keep looking up... DEEZ NUTZ!!!"

Star Hustler, Monday, 15 December 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link

anything that annoys randites = ok by me. the way they use their pre-formatted, logic-obsessed, anal-retentive "philosophy" to oh-so-smugly translate every fucking thing in the world into their own personal reverse-stalinist worldview = vile. seeing otherwise nice, sensible people spout this claptrap at you and giving you a knowing "oh, you'll come around..." smile when you venture a disagreement = total fucking dud.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 15 December 2003 05:25 (twenty years ago) link

and yeah i know this is getting into "bash other targets please" territory but GOD these people are annoying, on almost every level. why are college campuses full of them?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 15 December 2003 05:26 (twenty years ago) link

Because college-kids are all privileged to some degree (by virtue of being in college rather than the mines) and have a much better chance to become extremely successful under a Randroid dream society, by virtue of education, social advantages, etc. etc. etc..

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 15 December 2003 05:32 (twenty years ago) link

I like the pic on the dating service site of a guy w/a piece of quiche, very openminded of them

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 15 December 2003 05:42 (twenty years ago) link

I carry a cane.

Cold Cobra, Monday, 15 December 2003 05:52 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.ghu.ca/tb/index.htm

Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 15 December 2003 06:06 (twenty years ago) link

Um...wha?

Prude (Prude), Monday, 15 December 2003 06:20 (twenty years ago) link

in defense of ayn rand, part of what she writes is acceptable and good to hear, like not giving up your dreams and not thinking that your happiness depends solely on other people. it's nice to read her books even if what she says seems crazy because her youthful ideals survived for her entire life. i think that's sweet but maybe i just haven't suffered enough to want to give up MY childhood ideals about the world being good. (let's not get into her cult and all, please. or her weird crazinesses. i'm not trying to defend everything about her, just saying there's something there that attracts people and it's not just arrogance.)

ok, for books to read, i like we the living because it was from a point when she wasn't like "raawr compassion is evil", and atlas shrugged because it has a random pirate.

Maria (Maria), Monday, 15 December 2003 08:46 (twenty years ago) link

Nicely put, Silyl.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 December 2003 08:52 (twenty years ago) link

Can we all do a telepathic hivemind wish for her to DIE?

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:36 (twenty years ago) link

...

It worked!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

I remember when I was in high school, some Ayn Rand Society type thing was doing a competition offering a huge cash prize (can't remember how much, like $1000 or something) to the high school student who wrote the best essay on The Fountainhead. My 11th Grade English teacher really tried to push me into entering. I got about 5 pages into The Fountainhead and decided it was the worst rubbish I'd read in a long time, and pulled out of the competition. Wow, I'm sure glad that I did!

HRH Queen Kate (kate), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:49 (twenty years ago) link

G'bless the IMDB:

Had a longtime amphetamine prescription for "weight control"; it is believed that this may have influenced some of her later behavior and decision-making.

Does anyone know what the latter is a reference to? I'm having a Monday Morning, and could do with stories of Objectivists inviting Ayn to fancy dinners, and her doing the hokey-cokey on the table.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:54 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, I think that's the one I tried to read. Is that the one about the railroads? I attempted to read it as a teenager and couldn't get past the shitty shitty writing.

NA (Nick A.), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:56 (twenty years ago) link

I thought the Fountainhead was about bad architecture, but I can't remember. It was more than 15 years ago, after all.

HRH Queen Kate (kate), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:57 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, but Neil Peart's Rad.....

If I want to read fiction by swivel-eyed maniacs, I'll stick w/Wyndham Lewis, thx. One of the few times I actually got scared on teh intarweb was when I looked at this deranged robotick rand fansite, and got the ph34r. What if these people find out I'm looking at their site? Can they find me, and hunt my ass down? It was like the pod-people in "...er argc, that film. The one where people come out of pods, and take over. Anyway, I suppose her whole life story & stuff in kind of interesting, but her followers - ick. God help us all if this thread gets googled pt 217.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:04 (twenty years ago) link

Please write me some Ayn Rand porn.

(and of course let me know if anyone googles for "Ayn Rand porn")

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:16 (twenty years ago) link

I remember when I was in high school, some Ayn Rand Society type thing was doing a competition offering a huge cash prize (can't remember how much, like $1000 or something) to the high school student who wrote the best essay on The Fountainhead. My 11th Grade English teacher really tried to push me into entering. I got about 5 pages into The Fountainhead and decided it was the worst rubbish I'd read in a long time, and pulled out of the competition. Wow, I'm sure glad that I did!

Kate, we had this at our school too! Even though I thought a lot of the ideas in the book were pretty repulsive I entered anyway because I was desperate for money -- I wasn't exactly surprised I didn't win because it was torture just writing the essay.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

God, the brainwashing of desperate high school students for cash... it really just repulses me.

HRH Queen Kate (kate), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:46 (twenty years ago) link

We had that, too.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

I thought the brainwashing happened regardless of the money.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 December 2003 14:23 (twenty years ago) link

If need someone to explain Ayn Rand to you then you don't deserve to understand. At least that's what she might say.

Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 15 December 2003 14:55 (twenty years ago) link

If Ayn Rand is 'objective', then why is she all creepy and Aryan-worshipping?

When I was in college, my roommate dated a Randian goth who called his band "We the Living".

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 15 December 2003 15:39 (twenty years ago) link

Randian goth

Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 15 December 2003 15:41 (twenty years ago) link

ts 'we, the living' vs 'they live, we sleep'.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 15 December 2003 15:43 (twenty years ago) link

If Ayn Rand hadn't flattered the wealthy and powerful so ardently and earnestly, she'd be 100% forgotten today.

Aimless, Friday, 20 September 2013 03:00 (ten years ago) link

worst photoshop ever

ian, Friday, 20 September 2013 03:07 (ten years ago) link

That's in Ayn's own handwriting, pen clamped in fingers cramped by hatred and frustration. Her autograph fetches a good price by those who don't understand what value is.

I have gathered no gaudy flowers of speech in other men's gardens (dowd), Friday, 20 September 2013 05:57 (ten years ago) link

Thomas, appointed to the high court in 1991, briefly touched on his confirmation hearings— which included accusations of sexual harassment — calling it "not pleasant," his intellectual development and his conversion to a conservative judicial philosophy that has guided his two decades on the court.

"Why was a black kid in Georgia reading Ayn Rand?" Thomas said. "I have no idea."

乒乓, Friday, 20 September 2013 13:29 (ten years ago) link

I remember the first time I heard of Rand - I was about 20! No one reads her in Europe. One of my Philosophy professors asked the room if anyone had heard of her and this US student raised her hand and identified as an Objectivist at which point the lecturer proceeded to do what can only be described as a half-hour postmortem hazing of Rand. Just really brutal, and fairly mean to this poor girl. Then I found out that people actually read her in America, which was just puzzling.

I have gathered no gaudy flowers of speech in other men's gardens (dowd), Friday, 20 September 2013 14:12 (ten years ago) link

I just read Eon Colfer's book Screwed and the central character Dan McEvoy says he wound up with a copy of the Fountainhead at the end of some caper and learnt a lot from it.
Screwed is a current book by a writer I enjoy so not sure how happy I am to find that in it. Not very in short. Unless I'm missing some level on which it's not an endorsement.

Stevolende, Friday, 27 September 2013 10:47 (ten years ago) link

Thought it funny that I saw that just after having read through this thread, since it was a couple days after when i came across the paragraph concerned.

Stevolende, Friday, 27 September 2013 10:48 (ten years ago) link

Ex-army sergeant Daniel McEvoy is ready to say goodbye New Jersey's lawless underworld and concentrate on his new life as club owner and bona fide boyfriend. But when he's abducted and driven into the Hudson by a vengeful crime boss, he realises that the New Jersey underworld isn't ready to say goodbye to him.

If Dan is to survive, he will have to evade bad guys on both sides of the law and find the missing aunt who once taught him how to handle boobs.

i have no idea but on reading this blurb i wdn't necessarily take the protagonist's thoughts as authorial endorsement

how do i shot cwmbran? (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 September 2013 12:33 (ten years ago) link

if Rand wd appeal to anybody it wd be lunk-headed rugged individual action heroes

how do i shot cwmbran? (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 September 2013 12:34 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

harry binswanger

durianlychee (imago), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link

binswanger

durianlychee (imago), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link

bins wanger

durianlychee (imago), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link

harry 'the bins wanger' binswanger

durianlychee (imago), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link

A+ trolling Harry "I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism" Binswanger

I like to think I have learnt a thing or two about music (Neil S), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link

so p much trolling is just this guy's thing?

Insider Trading Is A Right: Don't Shackle The Knowledge-Seekers

JACK SQUAT about these Charlie Nobodies (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:35 (ten years ago) link

trolling is his Randian objectivist right PS. there's no such thing as society u dummies

I like to think I have learnt a thing or two about music (Neil S), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:41 (ten years ago) link

lmao @ Don't Shackle The Knowledge-Seekers

Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:52 (ten years ago) link

sounds like a Rush song title

Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:54 (ten years ago) link

By-Tor and the Knowledge Seekers

Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 November 2013 22:54 (ten years ago) link

for god's sake won't someone please think of the knowledge seekers

I like to think I have learnt a thing or two about music (Neil S), Friday, 8 November 2013 23:00 (ten years ago) link

Hah before I was forwarded to that Forbes article I had to read a quote from Che Guevara.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 9 November 2013 04:03 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

i was just sitting in a restaurant with some people i didn't know, and the girl next to me started spouting some shite, and I said 'That sounds like some serious Ayn Rand shite to me' and she said 'OMG SHE'S ONE OF MY HEROES'. Later she said with a beam on her face 'I'm one of Cameron's babes.'

Fizzles, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:31 (ten years ago) link

dinner voyage into abjection

veneer timber (imago), Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:42 (ten years ago) link

Salient thread 4 U, Fizz:

Popular delusions and our duty to dispel them

Branwell Bell, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link

it wasn't great, imago.

Fizzles, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:46 (ten years ago) link

oh wait, bb (gr8 display name btw) i need to see this thread.

Fizzles, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:47 (ten years ago) link

You are the only person who's got the reference so far. :-/

Branwell Bell, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:50 (ten years ago) link

lol I was just reading this piece on Rand yesterday.

It doesn't mock the whole thing as much as I'd like it to.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 14 December 2013 21:51 (ten years ago) link

You are the only person who's got the reference so far. :-/

he's a really interesting character. not all unsympathetic iirr. (became mildly obsessed when I was abt 20).

Fizzles, Saturday, 14 December 2013 22:48 (ten years ago) link

Half Cornish, you know! Also ginger. Patron saint of talented youths who squandered their vast potential!

Was gonna start a Pick A Bronte: Poll! thread on ILB but, um, apparently this is the ILX Bronte thread:

the Bronte sisters Porn book

Hmmm.

Branwell Bell, Saturday, 14 December 2013 23:08 (ten years ago) link

three weeks pass...

AR and megan mccardle are the two chicks libertarians dig. see, they're not sexist

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 10 January 2014 21:03 (ten years ago) link

oh and veronique de rugy. tax cuts pay for themselves

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 10 January 2014 21:04 (ten years ago) link

http://www.arpanetdialogues.net/vol-iv/

Mordy , Friday, 10 January 2014 21:56 (ten years ago) link

I am surprised to be in such a conversation. It feels like a deliberate test.

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 10 January 2014 21:59 (ten years ago) link

It's not real.

everything, Friday, 10 January 2014 22:04 (ten years ago) link

nothing is real but john galt

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 10 January 2014 22:12 (ten years ago) link

two months pass...

well known, from wikipedia:

Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974 after decades of heavy smoking.[88] In 1976, she retired from writing her newsletter and, despite her initial objections, was persuaded to allow Evva Pryor, a consultant from her attorney's office, to sign her up for Social Security and Medicare.[89] During the late 1970s her activities within the Objectivist movement declined, especially after the death of her husband on November 9, 1979.[90] One of her final projects was work on a never-completed television adaptation of Atlas Shrugged.[91]

Rand died of heart failure on March 6, 1982, at her home in New York City,[92] and was interred in the Kensico Cemetery, Valhalla, New York.[93] Rand's funeral was attended by some of her prominent followers, including Alan Greenspan. A six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign was placed near her casket

question: you would think that she, of all people, would have the motivation to not accept social security or medicare. so she must have been broke? i always just assumed she was rich because she wrote best selling books and traveled widely and hung out with a bunch of rich assholes. did she really whittle away her life savings so much that she had to accept help from the evil altruistic govt?

Karl Malone, Friday, 14 March 2014 22:34 (ten years ago) link

A six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign was placed near her casket

gangsta

A broke ass person memorialized by a giant dollar sign floral arrangement vs a richass mofo with a giant floral cross in a church, we live in a crazy place

actually high comedy (Hunt3r), Friday, 14 March 2014 23:08 (ten years ago) link

Rand's funeral was attended by some of her prominent followers, including Alan Greenspan

gangsta

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/alan_greenspan_poster.jpg

Daniel, Esq 2, Friday, 14 March 2014 23:12 (ten years ago) link

Needs a Sgt. Pepper parody

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 14 March 2014 23:24 (ten years ago) link

one year passes...
two years pass...

http://billmoyers.com/story/media-morality-neighbors-cow/

neal gabler otm

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 16 December 2017 17:40 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

would crosspost to bitcoins thread if I could find it

Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 05:20 (five years ago) link

john galton

adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 05:29 (five years ago) link

five months pass...

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