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Ive supported them for the last 30 odd years because i feel sorry for them.Anyone else this stupid ?

its me again ! (its me again !), Sunday, 16 November 2003 08:27 (sixteen years ago) link

but they are a premiership team that have enjoyed a degree of success? not much to feel sorry for really is it < /fan of 3rd division team >

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 16 November 2003 09:32 (sixteen years ago) link

You big time Charlie, charltonlido. Start supporting your local non-league club, Donna, you can be sure they'll appreciate it more and it's a hell of a lot better fun going to the matches.

< /level 8 fan, albeit one enjoying a decent start to the season >

Markelby (Mark C), Sunday, 16 November 2003 09:48 (sixteen years ago) link

poverty tourist!

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 16 November 2003 09:58 (sixteen years ago) link

"Anyone else this stupid?"
Living in North London and deciding to support Tottenham thus consigning myself to a lifetime of frustration and regret? Does that count?
Obviously i didn't 'decide'. Handed down to me in a quasi-mystical ceremony when i was 5.

Pete S, Sunday, 16 November 2003 13:38 (sixteen years ago) link

I've noticed supports of Premiership clubs have no sense of perspective. There are prominent supporters on here of AFC Wimbledon, Exeter, Huddersfield, Northampton, Chesterfield and my own beloved Bristol Rovers. Think about it, you Newcastle/Tottenham fans!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 16 November 2003 14:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Sheffield Wednesday.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 16 November 2003 14:27 (sixteen years ago) link

Sheffield Wednesday again have had some degree of success in the past 15 years, sir. Our biggest achievement was winning the third division in 1987. We're most famous for that game when George Best hit six past us.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 16 November 2003 15:40 (sixteen years ago) link

("Paper bag? You were lucky." etc etc)

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 16 November 2003 15:41 (sixteen years ago) link

Can some AFC Wimbledon supporters come on this board and tell us what it's like?

Pete S, Sunday, 16 November 2003 15:47 (sixteen years ago) link

I imagine being 15 points clear with three games in hand is pretty good, to be honest.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Yes, I'm a Chesterfield fan, but I also support Liverpool, split loyalties yes etc etc etc I've been through that all before, but the one thing that seems to creep onto this board that irritates the hell out of me (well, the current thing) is the insistence that seems to pervade that somehow supporting a lower league team (the lower the better) somehow makes you a "better" or "more real fan", it stinks, Newcastle struggled for a long time ain the eighties and seemed to bbe destined to be a yo-yo club, however they got a bit of money and did well. All the time they were doing this the fans were bemoaning their lot, saying they were underacheiving...AND THEY WERE! It's all relative, Newcastle had previously been a very big club, their fans wanted more of the same, they didn't get it and so they were struggling.

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:25 (sixteen years ago) link

"my club's smaller thans your club"

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:52 (sixteen years ago) link

Precisely, sometimes it just sounds like the four yorkshiremen sketch from Monty Python.

"eeh there were that time at Sincil Bank,it were that cold me toes dropped off and there were no pies, so I ate me toes"

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:54 (sixteen years ago) link

Cabbage: name names.

You glory boy.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:58 (sixteen years ago) link

There are a couple of instances above - Premiership and first division fans do have perspective, it's just skewed to their own sphere of influence.

Glory boy? yeah it's a fair cop, I do support a couple of desperately over-acheiving sides after all.

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:05 (sixteen years ago) link

I watched a cracking game over Victoria Park yesterday. The kid on the right wing with the long hair was terrific. Also first time I've ever seen a squirrel on the pitch.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:10 (sixteen years ago) link

I agree with your sentiment, Chris, there's nothing better about being a fan of a small club than a big one. But at the same time, for (e.g.) Newcastle or Spurs fans to wail about what suffering they put themselves through does suggest a lack of perspective. I mean, if they're my age or younger they can barely even remember their clubs being relegated. Surely relegation is necessarily a greater agony than mediocrity peppered with trophies (or at least near misses)?

Tim (Tim), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:13 (sixteen years ago) link

what about when the old vagrant rushed on and started trying to take the ball off them? you don't get that at White Hart Lane...

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:14 (sixteen years ago) link

apart from when Freund was playing...

Surely you don't mean Newcastke there Tim? They yo-yo-ed all over the place in the eighties. And Man City too, look what their fans have had to put up with.

Relegation is very very over-rated. But after a while you become kind of immune to it.

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:22 (sixteen years ago) link

I went to Loftus Road on Saturday to watch QPR demolish Plymouth Argyle to go top of the 2nd, and it felt amazing. Even though I'm not a proper fan, it felt great to be there shouting "We! Are! Top of the league!" and all that, something that you never really get as a Spurs fan (apart from one week in August, which isn't really the count).

I never thought I'd feel more of a glory-hunter rooting for a 2nd Division team than one in the Premiership, it must be said.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:30 (sixteen years ago) link

I've noticed supports of Premiership clubs have no sense of perspective.

Charlton Athletic fans to thread! The complete opposite of Spurs fans, really - pretty much the mantra round my way is "well, one thing other clubs don't realise is that as long as you're in the Premiership, EVERYTHING IS GOOD". I'd imagine sitting in fourth position is even better.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Charlton Athletic fans to thread!

Funny you should mention this - I'm not sure I've ever met any. If I did meet some I'd feel compelled to ask them if they sing "Into the Valley" by the Skids.

MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:34 (sixteen years ago) link

You don't get squirrels on the pitch in the Premiership. Shame, really.

I think this year's Premiership has taken a nosedive in quality. Apart from the top three, you have a load of average sides. This is why the more efficient sides are top six. Birmingham, Charlton etc.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:36 (sixteen years ago) link

Newcastle in the 80s: one promotion, one relegation. I grant that NUFC fans have had some tricky times in the past fifteen years but the point stands, those people who think supporting a club which has stable Premiership status = football suffering are suffering from a perspective deficit.

MarkH: they play "Into The Valley" before the game at Charlton (just before "When The Red Red Robin Comes Bob Bob Bobbing Along") and a few seem to make an attempt at singing along but it's difficult because the words are so garbled.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:44 (sixteen years ago) link

haha, right now i kinda wish i was much more of a QPR fan than i am (barely) - then i remember the abject despair 2, 3, 4 and 5 years ago. it's great to see them at the summit of div 2 because it makes my brother very happy (the only joy in his sorry life i sense) and tho we're one year apart in age we have this shared emotional connection ala twins - in that when he's miserable i am too, and when he can't find something (as is the case 99% of the time) then i have to go out of my way to find it for him...annoyingly this doesn't work the other way round. but anyway, mama weer all cock-a-Hoop now

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:01 (sixteen years ago) link

now everybody shut up and dance to 'Pigbag'

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Did someone call for an AFC Wimbledon fan?

Yes, it certainly helps that we're 3 points (not 15) with 3 games in hand, but that's not really the point. The reasons why I like supporting AFC Wimbledon, ignoring the emotional attachment:

- Smaller crowds make driving, parking, enterting, leaving, buying drinks, going to the loo, etc. etc. much quicker and easier.

- £8 may be a lot for CCL football, but £25 was a lot to see a shitty Wimbledon team stuffed by Coventry.

- I'm a season ticket holder for the 1st time in my life, and I've been to the last 9 home games, which is easily a record for me. And I don't have to slog my way to Selhurst Park to do so.

- The fans do have a strong and close loyalty to the club, but also a sense of perspective.

- Every penny I spend at Kingsmeadow helps the club much more in financial terms than every penny I could spend at, say, Highbury.

- The supporters run the club, and every penny profit goes back into the club.

- The standard of football is MUCH higher than I would have expected, and in non-league it's even harder to move up the ladder than in the football league, so every point and every success is that much more important.

- The relationship between club and community seems stronger and is definitely much more intimate and much more mutual.

- I feel I'm making a difference. I wouldn't feel anything like that if I supported a big club.

I can understand why cabbage gets annoyed at inverted snobbery in football, but I can't understand why Liverpool are more important to him than Chesterfield.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:40 (sixteen years ago) link

who said they were Barry?

When they played each other I supported Chesterfield

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Um, you told me that yourself, last time we chatted about it.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Supporting more than one football team is like having concurrent girlfriends. It's exciting for a while and no problem if one is at home and the other away. But if they get drawn together, it will confuse your brain.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:55 (sixteen years ago) link

it was difficult I must admit. Until I thought of it as some sort of kinky footie threesome.

chris (chris), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Markleby thanks for posting. I've got to be honest, i envy the progress of AFC....2 things: are the crowds 'smaller' than the other lot? And how difficult/easy was it to start supporting them?

Pete S, Monday, 17 November 2003 12:12 (sixteen years ago) link

I think if you support a team like Newcastle then you deserve everything you get. (no offence, I just really hate Newcastle.) I am a fulham fan, not that this makes nay difference to this argument.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:16 (sixteen years ago) link

Last season we averaged 3,000 people per game while WFC averaged about 2,900. This season we're about the same, while they are getting between 3 and 6 thousand at Milton keynes. They publically stated they need over 8,000 fans pergame to break even, so hopefully they'll go tits up pretty soon. Every time they're playing at home the same weekend as we're at home we get supporters of *their* opponents turning up in their colours to a warm welcome and many free pints.

It was not difficult at all to start supporting them. To all intents and purposes Wimbledon FC stopped being the club I supported when permission was given for the move, though it was living on borrowed time ever since the chairman first announced his desire to move the club from Wimbledon. So when a group of dedicated fans announced that they were setting up a new club, and the vast majority of the hardcore fan base immediately got behind them, it was the easiest (and most exciting and enjoyable) thing in the world to throw my lot in with this amazing, brave adventure. I enjoy going to non-league matches more than premier/1st div matches, so in a way I felt I'd gained rather than lost.

AFC Wimbledon is currently (and may it be ever thus) a team with a vast amount of emotional support, goodwill and passion. I'm enjoying being a football fan more than I ever have before.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:21 (sixteen years ago) link

I really agree with what you are saying Mark. The thought of fulham not going back to the cottage is not a very nice one. Although I have been to loftus road to see them (there is no choice) it's just not the same.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:24 (sixteen years ago) link

You and 6000 others Pink - gates are massively down.

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:25 (sixteen years ago) link

X-post above, obv. Pinky, how do you feel about Fayed? Would you rather be where you are now, or a 2nd division club meandering along?

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:27 (sixteen years ago) link

I like what he has done for the club & I am chuffed to bits to see Chris Coleman where he is, but I am not very happy with Fayed & his 'yeah I cant be bothered anymore' attitude because fulham didnt turn into the top club he had hoped. I am pleased that I now have the pleasure of watching Fulham vs Chelsea matches. So yes I am grateful to him for where we are, but I loathe his lack of commitment.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:30 (sixteen years ago) link

But surely you weren't ever under the impression he was in it for the love of the club? When he took over, I was working with a hardcore (female) Fulham fan who had stopped going to games after 25 years of constant attendance because she felt the club had lost its soul to money. I haven't seen her for years - I wonder how she feels now?

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:35 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe I was though mark, but i didnt imagine that he'd just up sticks & leave. It was always obv he just picked a club & one of the things i think is great about them being in the premiership is that my dad can get to see his beloved fulham on the tv every now and again as he cant get down there that often.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:37 (sixteen years ago) link

I can see your friends point, but you could say that about players. they will go where the money is. There are very few players that would remain loyal to their particular clubs if they got a better offer.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:39 (sixteen years ago) link

maybe she did a Mellor

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:39 (sixteen years ago) link

Yes, you could say that about players, but Fayed is such a known rogue and criminal that it must have been blindly obvious what was going to happen if he got bored and/or lost money in the Fulham deal. Unfortunately, it looks like you're going to keep your premiership status but lose your ground. And we've seen what happens to a team in nimby-ridden expensive-real-estate SW London that loses its ground...

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:47 (sixteen years ago) link

Well yes, call me naive if you like, but i am glad it has given fulham the opportunity it has.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:52 (sixteen years ago) link

On the topic of fans of middling Premiership clubs really having nothing to moan about - well, yes, fair enough but the presence of a high-achieving local rival tends to skew things a bit (and I'm not saying this doesn't happen to the lower-division sides too).

In the case of Spurs, I suspect most of the 'pain' comes from having a slightly bumbling, mediocre team with a ever-receding glorious past in the shadow of a club very close to the top of the Englsh game. As an Evertonian, I'm afraid the joy/misery balance of a weekend's football is always a combination of *two* results (unless it's derby day).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:55 (sixteen years ago) link

what league do afc wimbledon play in?

robin (robin), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:56 (sixteen years ago) link

justice league

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:56 (sixteen years ago) link

The Seagrave Haulage Combined Counties League (level 8, feeds into the Rymans League).

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Mike I'm not saying that every supporter of a club considered to be underachieving should be happy all the time, I just object to the whole "life time of torture" thing when used to refer to clubs who barely ever even go down.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:59 (sixteen years ago) link

Micheal you're basically right in your analysis of Tottenham fans' gripes but there is a substansial group who have got this hang-up about the 'history' of A*s*n*l ; 'The Woolwich Nomads'.......
Google 'Topspurs' and check out 'Arsepaste' if you fancy a larf.
Thus they've got this - somewhat barmy - Palestinians vs Israelis complex to see the Goons doing well (well, brilliant) 'on our patch'.

Pete S, Monday, 17 November 2003 13:03 (sixteen years ago) link

As a Spurs fan I'm fully aware of how annoying we can be, and likewise fans of clubs of similar stature (Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea..nah just kidding). The phone-ins are full of us moaning minnies eventhough the worst torment we have to go through is being at the wrong end of the table in March albeit safe in the knowledge that we'll get the two wins needed to achieve safety and subsequently state "ah well, this was a transistional season, let's look forward". It doesn't make losing on a Saturday afternoon any more bearable though.

Jonnie, Monday, 17 November 2003 13:06 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm not saying that every supporter of a club considered to be underachieving should be happy all the time, I just object to the whole "life time of torture" thing when used to refer to clubs who barely ever even go down.

True, but there's the absolute failure of relegation (yes, yes, it's also relative - there's a league table after all) and then there's the relative failure of always being second best to the other lot.

I'm not for a moment saying that it's as bad finishing 13th in the top flight, trophyless and with a clutch of disgruntled, overpaid dilettantes while the filth hoover up European glory vs. losing league status and almost going to the wall financially. But, by Christ, it still fucking hurts. There is this sense that you made a choice aged four, seven, nine, whatever - and IT WAS WRONG. I think that's where the lifetime of agony line comes from. Of course, it's nothing compared to your club almost ceasing to exist and I'm not making a plea for sympathy here!

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 November 2003 13:11 (sixteen years ago) link

the only Premiership club fans who are justified in their whingeing are Leeds (bwahahaha) and maybe Blackburn

stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 13:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Back off leeds steve!

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 17 November 2003 13:15 (sixteen years ago) link

"the only Premiership club fans who are justified in their whingeing are Leeds (bwahahaha) and maybe Blackburn"

That's bollocks. We're all justified in whinging as much as we like, they're our teams after all.

Jonnie, Monday, 17 November 2003 13:19 (sixteen years ago) link

Thing about Spurs is that it's just a miracle we never seem to go down.

Pete S, Monday, 17 November 2003 18:52 (sixteen years ago) link

Is it Spurs that haven't finished in the top or bottom six of the Premiership since it started? I'm sure this is one of the pub trivia questions football fans end up asking themselves, but still...

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe I'm a cynical old cunt, but whenever anyone is interested in owning Foolham, I think 'nice bit of real estate'. Cheapest piece of decent London land TBH. It's bedevilled the club since Ernie Clay bought the freehold off the Church Commissioners.

The Fulham Trust had a massive problem in getting a lot of their fans to give a shit about the Cottage; for many, Fulham was a Premiershite club, and where it played less important. The ones who were there in the dark times had an intrinsic understanding on the importance of the Cottage to the identity of the club, but that didn't seem to be the priority for many of the newer fans.

Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link

five years pass...

Newcastle United are the club at the centre of the 2005 film GOAL! which was just on BBC1. Did anyone else see it? I found it interesting in some ways.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 16:48 (eleven years ago) link


  • the romance of the journey North, on the train from London, and the lovely shots of the bridges over the the Tyne; when he actually arrived in Newcastle station I wished I could travel to such a place.
  • the NE coastline that we then see, where our hero Santiago stays with the coach who has brought him over
  • the moment when the coach mentions NUFC - 'that's a big club'!' - 'it's a *very* big club'
  • the manager is called Eric something, and initially I thought he was English - but his nationality is never specified, and in fact he seems modelled on Wenger more than anyone.
  • NUFC here are battling, down to the last kick of the film, for ... 4th place and a place in Europe. I like the realism of that! They don't bother having our hero actually win the league, just scrape the last CL spot.
  • in doing so, they edge out Liverpool on the last day! I'm surprised that Stevie G and Benitez agree to participate in this, but they do.
  • Newcastle presented as great hub of irresponsible nightlife - accurate reflection of the years of mayhem with Dyer, Jenas et al (and they both appear in the film!)?
  • moment when we see the first team - Shearer above all - with music drifting over the top, they're seen as demigods or rare wild animals ... I get it with Shearer, but I fear that Boumsong is somewhere in the background of this film as well.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 16:58 (eleven years ago) link

I fear that Boumsong is somewhere in the back

a common fear

Francisco Javier Sánchez Brot (onimo), Tuesday, 30 December 2008 17:02 (eleven years ago) link

"I like the realism of that" - hahaha

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 17:09 (eleven years ago) link

well, Newcastle USED to be a team in for CL places. this film kind of worked as a reminder of that distant time (I guess when it was being scripted, cast etc they were on a roll by their standards).

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 17:32 (eleven years ago) link

SPOILER: the "Ghost Of The Gallowgate" is unmasked as bitter reserve keeper Steve Harper, who had been attempting to drive down the value of the land so that the board would be forced to sell Shay Given to evil Norwegian side FC Baastaad in order to keep the club afloat.

"You'll be getting plenty of first-team opportunities where you're going."
"Yeah, yeah, prison..."
"No - Darlington!"

C N'Zogbia: "LOL"

William Bloody Swygart, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 17:52 (eleven years ago) link

That train journey between Durham and about Berwick *is* fantastic. I always manoeuvre myself to the east of the train for the best view of those bridges

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 17:59 (eleven years ago) link

SPOILER: film ends with bomb-laden Olivier Bernard ascending The Angel Of The North, the entire assembled first-team squad incredulously looking on from beneath, and announcing "Look at me, Laurent, top of the world!" before Nikos Dabizas fells him with a well-aimed punt

claudestock carpentinieri (country matters), Tuesday, 30 December 2008 18:05 (eleven years ago) link

PF may be interested in Goal! II, where hero boy is transferred to Real Madrid. There's also Goal! III, which is apparently based around the 2006 World Cup. Given hero boy is (I think) Mexican, don't anticipate too much from that.

William Bloody Swygart, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 18:07 (eleven years ago) link

Hang on. Hero boy gets surprise transfer from Newcastle to Real Madrid... Goal! II = JONATHAN WOODGATE: THE MOVIE!

William Bloody Swygart, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 18:16 (eleven years ago) link

Curious, this - I did hear that there were supposed to be other films but was not clear that they had actually been made. The BBC preview for the first film mentions Real and the World Cup which are not in the first film. Instead it takes a good long time talking about NEWCASTLE UNITED.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 18:30 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

it'd be lol if i didn't feel for hughton, regardless of residual ill-feeling for him being nominally in charge of set-pieces/defence under jol at spurs

Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Monday, 6 December 2010 15:00 (nine years ago) link

Ant & Dec.

The referee was perfect (Chris), Monday, 6 December 2010 15:10 (nine years ago) link

Absolute fucking nonsense.

rappa ternt sagna (jim in glasgow), Monday, 6 December 2010 15:22 (nine years ago) link

if i didn't feel for hughton

oh i'm sure he'll find a work environment that isn't populated exclusively by psychopaths and idiots soon enough.

Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Monday, 6 December 2010 15:35 (nine years ago) link

two years pass...

Woke up, checked the premier league table, saw my beloved and almighty Sunderland AFC were still above Newcastle, grinned like a cheshire cat and went to put the kettle on. I hope this good mood sustains itself throughout the rest of the day, as it has for many days prior to this :D

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 20 January 2013 08:02 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...
six years pass...

Alan Pardew's 8-year contract at Newcastle expires today.
In that time:

- Donald Trump elected president
- 3 General Elections
- UK left the EU
- Mandela & Thatcher died
- Ebola, Zika & Coronavirus viruses
- Will and Kate had 3 kids
- 2 World Cups
- Pardew managed 3 clubs

— Peter Davidson (@Peter_Davidson1) June 30, 2020

the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 09:28 (one week ago) link

- Gazza read Finnegans Wake

calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 10:05 (one week ago) link

Even now there is literally nothing better on the internet than the Pardew dancing gif.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 10:10 (one week ago) link

Sadly that German teenager's Pardew / Herz an Herz tribute video got taken down for a copyright violation.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:00 (one week ago) link

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