The official thread for Lord Of The Rings - The Return Of The King [LOTR ROTK TROTK ROK] (NOW CONTAINS SPOILERS)

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Christopher Lee was very suprised that 7 minutes of film focusing on Gandalf's role at the Battle of the Pelenor Fields was removed from the theatrical release of ROTK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3265475.stm

Seeing as I thought The Two Towers suffered editing problems and my hope that it will be resolved with the expanded edition, why am I now questioning the same fate of the final installment of the trilogy?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:46 (twenty years ago) link

I'm sure they'll throw it back in for the expanded DVDs...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link

Seeing as he was one of many actors who mentioned that ROTK was the superior third of the series, and also a Tolkien authority, this strikes me as a major setback.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link

I thought this was a thread about South Korea

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link

I'm your Seoul Survivor.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link

A "major setback" for RoTK = STILL BETTER THAN ANY OTHER MOVIE THIS YEAR

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:50 (twenty years ago) link

*pst he plays Sarumon and not Gandalf*

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link

is that all the footage with him in it, or just some of it?

Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link

I know who he plays Nick!

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:52 (twenty years ago) link

bbbbbbbut it was Sarumon's scenes that were cut, not Gandalf's...that's all I'm sayin'.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link

...7 minutes of film focusing on Gandalf's role at the Battle of the Pelenor Fields...

Shouldn't "Gandalf" = "Sarumon" here?

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link

God I'm such a fucking pedant when I drink coffee. Sorry dude.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link

No, I think he's allowed be surprised about the editing of someone elses role, I checked. Also Gandalf actually is at the Pelenor Fields.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link

(okay I read the news story now, I'm a dick)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link

Oh yes, sorry Nick, you're totally right. I wrote Gandalf even though I had read Sarumon and meant to write Sarumon... I don't drink coffee and I'm spazzing. Kisses!

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:00 (twenty years ago) link

This thread scares me.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:02 (twenty years ago) link

YAY! All is well...although I know what he's talking about, and I think it is particularly shitty to cut this particular SEVEN MINUTES of footage, when it really is pretty integral, not to mention possibly one of the BAD-ASSEST parts of the whole story.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:02 (twenty years ago) link

Drudge is reporting that they cut out the Valley of the Dead scenes and replaced them with a jungle planet filled with cuddly muppetbears.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

gygax u so crazy

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link

ahahahaha

There were ewoks in Matrix Revolutions, I'm sure of it.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:11 (twenty years ago) link

The Annoying Kid in Matrix Revolutions is two ewoks in a jumper. Like "Station".

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:19 (twenty years ago) link

Wait, Radio is in Matrix Revolutions?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:20 (twenty years ago) link

The thing I love about LoTR = creepy evil-ass Golum is the "ewok".

x-post ha ha that woulda been the greatest thing ever

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

Power meets Radio in a holey sweater!

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

Kid in Matrix Revolutions, that is.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

Sorry, I meant Powder meets Radio. Somebody buy me a coffee!

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:22 (twenty years ago) link

Susan Powter?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:32 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, this whole thing, AICN reported it last week and theonering.net reported it from there. If Harry Knowles isn't lying (and who knows?) he and Peter Jackson have all these bull sessions talking about what they're bidding for on eBay and all that crap. So Knowles hears some rumor and asks what the deal is, and quoth Jackson, apparently:

[The] Saruman thing you describe is a muddle of half-truths.

We have decided to save the Saruman sequence for the DVD. It's a great little scene. 7 mins long. Chris is wonderful, as usual. Brad is in about 6 shots. It was a film maker decision - nothing to do with the studio.

The problem is that the sequence was originally shot for The Two Towers, as it is in the book. Since The Two Towers couldn't sustain a 7 min "wrap" after Helm's Deep, we thought it would be a good idea to save it for the beginning of the Return of the King. The trouble is, when we viewed various ROTK cuts over the last few weeks, it feels like the first scenes are wrapping last year's movie, instead of starting the new one. We felt it got ROTK off to an uncertain beginning, since Saruman plays no role in the events of ROTK (we don't have the Scouring later, as the book does), yet we dwell in Isengard for quite a long time before our new story kicks off.

We reluctantly made the decision to save this sequence for the DVD. The choice was made on the basis that most people will assume that Saruman was vanquished by the Helm's Deep events, and Ent attack. We can now crack straight into setting up the narrative tension of ROTK, which features Sauron as the villian.

It was a very similar situation to last year when we decided to take a nice Boromir/Denethor flashback out of The Two Towers, and put it in the DVD. It was causing us pacing problems in the theatrical version, but with the Extended Cut just coming out now, fans can see this great little scene. Thank God for DVD, since it does mean that a version of the movie, which has different pacing requirements, can be released later. The Saruman sequence will definately be a highlight of the Extended ROTK DVD.

We have a lot of great DVD material this time around. As we crafted the movie, we reduced it from an over 4 hour running time, down to 3.12 (without credits - about 8 mins long). This was done by us. There were no studio cutting notes. We now have a movie with a pace that fells ok for it's theatrical release. One more week to go. We are nearly there. Will we still be standing? It's going to be a close run thing.

Cheers,

Peter J

It doesn't break the film as theatrically released and it shouldn't cause a worry even with the extended TT. Lee himself seems to have been taken offguard, so that was handled poorly, but beyond that I'm utterly unfazed.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link

Do you have access to the screenplays or shooting notes NedRagget?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

If Harry Knowles isn't lying (and who knows?) he and Peter Jackson have all these bull sessions talking about what they're bidding for on eBay and all that crap

He is very prone to exaggeration and playing up tenous connections to celebrities, so I never believe something that is published on aicn until it is independently confirmed on some other site.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

Do you have access to the screenplays or shooting notes NedRagget?

Nothing about the explanation [with El Diablo's caveat in mind, though it's now been some days and no denial has been issued] as provided strikes me as an impossible thought to make, especially given the differences between theatrical and DVD releases so far with the other two films. To be utterly honest, given the scope of the story, I was hoping they would get away from Orthanc as quickly as possible anyway -- there's still a lot of material to get through. About the only thing that doesn't work, as someone on AICN noted, was how Aragorn et al get hold of the palantir now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

The material on the first DVD produced in me the fairly strong impression that the DVD release = the "real" film, and what you see in the cinemas is something cut so as to avoid paralysis of the ass.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 22:51 (twenty years ago) link

if the scene dragged down the movie, then it's jackson's prerogative (and right) to cut it!

that said, I gotta say I'm really looking forward to this movie.

s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 23:06 (twenty years ago) link

the expanded DVD for LOTR1 was so much better than the theatrical release! I only sorta loved it in the theater. I can't wait for the expanded version of LOTR2, in fact, I haven't even watched it at home since it's been out.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 23:10 (twenty years ago) link

Expanded version II due out Tuesday. Why yes I have it on preorder.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 23:15 (twenty years ago) link

No, Ned I was wondering if you indeed truly have access to the screenplays or shooting notes!!!!

Spencer, I loved FOTR in the theater, LOVED the expanded edition of FOTR (with mild exception to the ubertwee Concerning Hobbits chapter), liked T2T in the theater and hoped to increase on that with the expanded release.

I wonder if T2T set will come with a free ticket to ROTK like the first set did (which I bought for $25.99+tax, that combined with movies in SF = $9-10 makes that 4xDVD set quite a value).

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 13 November 2003 00:04 (twenty years ago) link

Oh yes, sorry Nick, you're totally right. I wrote Gandalf even though I had read Sarumon and meant to write Sarumon... I don't drink coffee and I'm spazzing. Kisses!

it's Saruman, actually.

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 13 November 2003 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

i know these are better films, but i've been more excited by Reloaded and Revolutions than the last two LOTR installments. must just be down to preferring robots and kung-fu to wizards and swordplay. still, looking forward to seeing it for sure.

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 November 2003 11:48 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
yahoo pics from the premiere today [warning: photo-links will eventually expire]

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:32 (twenty years ago) link

i looking forward to some good finger biting off action.

BiLBo (jackcole), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link

NO SPOILERS!!

mark s (mark s), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link

really! i mean... SHEESH!

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link

what? i can't bite off my finger(s) do to the suspense? what sort of world is this where i can't gnaw off my own digits?!?!? *crunch*

Gollum Should Rule Middle Earth (jackcole), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:01 (twenty years ago) link

Take it to ilm.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:02 (twenty years ago) link

take it to the fiery pit of mt. doom.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:05 (twenty years ago) link

yessssss, massssssster.

jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link

The fact that it's still fifteen days away from release isn't affecting me at all. As you can see from this photo of me taken this morning:

http://www.ortadunya.com/dbimage/client/gollum.gif

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:11 (twenty years ago) link

I watched the Two Tower extended edition twice this weekend, I am in a bad way.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link

I've been having fucking LoTR dreams.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link

Hey! You! New Line! Leave that Hobbit alone!

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

roffle

latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I had a dream once that Peter Gabriel's RAEL character looked like this Gollum, so I can't hear "Carpet Crawlers" w/out seeing this hissing cavedweller.

AND THE RIIIIIIIIING GOES DOOOOOOWWWWWWN TO MOR-OR-ORDOR

stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

haha

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Never mind a prequel, when are they gonna do a sequel? I mean, Meltron, or whatever the dude's name is who's Sauron's master, isn't officially dead, is he? Just trapped somewhere. They could have Frodos's and Aragorn's sons confront him, or something like that.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Meltron? You're making this up aren't you, sounds like a transformer.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, since they aren't bound by Tolkien, they could include black and female characters too, so they can dodge the issues concerning race and gender in the original trilogy.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, sorry I was thinking of Megatron. I checked it in Wikipedia, it's Melkor aka Morgoth.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Also: hot elfin sex scenes! Man, fuck them purists, we want a sequel!

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Meltron is the reanimated cyborgified corpse of Mel Blanc, like Robocop, only with cartoon voices.

stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

"PUT YOUR WEAPON DOWN"
"Hey, fuck you, buddy!"
RATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT blaBLAOW
"th-th-th-th-th-that's all folks!"

stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:50 (seventeen years ago) link

I wonder at what stage Peter Jackson thought his contract might not be renewed by the people he was having prosecuted for fraud?

=== temporary username === (Mark C), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

there is that

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link

One of those minor points. (And let's face it, it's not like he needs the contract renewed to put bread on the table now.)

AND THE RIIIIIIIIING GOES DOOOOOOWWWWWWN TO MOR-OR-ORDOR

Nickalicious I love you.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

He's doing another epic fantasy trilogy now:
http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1870555,00.html

I'd never heard of it before this story came up, anyone read it?

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Hadn't heard of it either. My guess he started looking into that first when it looked like The Hobbit was doing to be (at least) massively delayed -- because The Hobbit would have given him the chance to do a really fantastic dragon. So might as well sidestep, seeing as Eragon's already been claimed.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Is Meet the Feebles the only PJ film that isn't an adaptation?

stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh wait, just remembered Dead Alive and The Frighteners.

stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Badtaste and Braindead!

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I was about to say, he's done a slew of 'em. Hasn't for a while, though, and I am disappointed by that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

seventeen years pass...

20 years!

We had thoughts on the podcast!

https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/57

(Settle it, it's about two hours long...)

Ned Raggett, Monday, 4 December 2023 16:38 (six months ago) link

Settle in rather, but you could settle it too.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 4 December 2023 16:38 (six months ago) link

im watching them again- some extended for the first time- an hour a week with neighbours

surprisingly they are now separate enough in my mind again from the books that the sharpness of my irritation with some of the decisions has eased-

close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, 4 December 2023 23:50 (six months ago) link

Healthy approach, that.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 December 2023 02:07 (six months ago) link

my amazing idea: a sequel series featuring hobbits trying to escape from revived sauron's revived nazgul but this time they're after that giant ass key that unlocked mordor.

omar little, Tuesday, 5 December 2023 02:16 (six months ago) link

six months pass...

doing our yearly watch of these, and my kid has been consulting this excellent atlas by Karen Wynn Fonstad which he's found totally fascinating and helpful. anyway, going thru ROTK and some of the flaws are more evident, but they're hardly an issue for me since it's such a strong, epic finish. but the thing i perhaps newly noticed is some of the slight disconnect between settings within the final battle (maybe it's a result of this being the extended cut and some awkwardness remains?), Gandalf and Pippin running around and being waylaid by the Witch-King, who then flies off to see what's up just before the Rohirrim charge. And the absolutely game-changing epic charge is never acknowledged from within the walls, even as just a confidence boost to the troops in Minas Tirith. it might as well be happening in another battle entirely. there's a bit of editing awkwardness around Eowyn after she slays the Witch-King, her crawling around looking for Merry and chased by that Orc chieftain, then bidding adieu to Theoden, then being found unconscious by Eomer. It's certain things that just ever so slightly undercut the final stretch of the battle, plus the fearsomeness of the dead army being undercut by the comical way in which they're depicted effortlessly dispatching the remaining legions of Mordor. but it's not crippling, i think just as much as the Rohan aspect of The Two Towers made it a really rich film, the Rohan storyline concluding on this field of battle is what absolutely makes it succeed. The storylines for Theoden and Eowyn are so truly well done, even if i really do wish they had preserved Tolkien's absolutely heartstopping dialogue in the latter's moment of heroism, perhaps shifting around slightly for more maximum cinematic impact...

'Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!'

A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.'

A sword rang as it was drawn. 'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.'

'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'

Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed.... 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'

omar little, Sunday, 9 June 2024 19:28 (five days ago) link

thou fool

mark s, Sunday, 9 June 2024 19:31 (five days ago) link

whomst is the fool now foul dwimmerlaik

mark s, Sunday, 9 June 2024 19:32 (five days ago) link

this is the dialogue in the film

EOWYN: I will kill you if you touch him.

WITCH-KING: Do not come between
the Nazgul and his prey.

(break for army of the dead showing up at the river w/Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli)

WITCH-KING: You fool.
No man can kill me.
Die now.

EOWYN: I am no man.

considering how well they preserved much of the excellent dialogue in other areas, it's disappointing they didn't do the same here. that's a moment that deserved a bit more buildup and genuine fear and would have resulted in a better payoff (again, it would have to be altered slightly bc one couldn't hide Eowyn's identity without creating some type of secondary character as a red herring, but that would take up a lot of time.)

omar little, Sunday, 9 June 2024 19:46 (five days ago) link

That scene in the animated Return of the King (1980) is more faithful to the book, including using that dialogue. It seemed so heavy on top of the death of Theoden when I first saw it as a kid age 8 or 9.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Sunday, 9 June 2024 19:58 (five days ago) link

i just watched that scene for the first time last night, it was a bit less fearful maybe due to the Witch-King sounding more like Cobra Commander crossed with the Knights Who Say "Ni", but Eowyn as depicted in that was thoroughly unshakable.

omar little, Sunday, 9 June 2024 20:02 (five days ago) link

Yeah the Rankin-Bass films are…uneven but have moments.

The Fonstad atlas has been a standby for me for four decades now.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 June 2024 00:01 (four days ago) link

Yeah, I should have added that it was not as heavy watching it now at 51 but I was terrified of the witch-king as a kid. He had a crown without a head! Terryifying!

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Monday, 10 June 2024 01:10 (four days ago) link

"I AM NO MAN" works as a more iconic moment than the wordy banter imo

assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 10 June 2024 01:17 (four days ago) link

thou fool!

not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Monday, 10 June 2024 01:33 (four days ago) link

'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'

See, at this point he's just asking to get utterly hindered.

jmm, Monday, 10 June 2024 01:42 (four days ago) link

I think I just wanted her to say "foul dwimmerlaik" and WK to get in some threats about the lidless eye and the house of pain. "I am no man" works vv well though and really vv few complaints about what was done beyond feeling it could have been drawn out a bit. if Denethor can have a doomy brooding emo monologue en route to the murder/suicide pyre they could have given WK a couple more choice lines to chill the bone. However every time I watch it, it never ceases to be a wholly thrilling sequence (from the charge to Theoden's passing). And I always forget that there's still an hour and a half remaining from the moment Gandalf walks across the battlefield, surveying the horror left behind.

omar little, Monday, 10 June 2024 02:12 (four days ago) link

Needless to say we've talked about this film (and the Rankin-Basses) on the podcast. Another thing that Rankin-Bass does that Jackson didn't was have the proper faceoff between the Lord of the Nazgul and Gandalf at the ruined gate right before the Rohirrim arrive -- the Jackson version was in the extended cut and didn't have anywhere as much impact as the book, due to changing when and where it happened.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 June 2024 02:44 (four days ago) link

I think also the impact of that moment in the Jackson film is a bit lessened for me when you stop to think and wonder where the witch-king went between going to see what was up with that horn and finally showing up on the battlefield. Far be it for me to question his military strategy but idk pal, maybe don't take the long way around Minas Tirith.

omar little, Monday, 10 June 2024 02:50 (four days ago) link

He had to call HQ for tips. (Don't ask me how. I might be lying.)

Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 June 2024 03:05 (four days ago) link

"I AM NO MAN" works as a more iconic moment than the wordy banter imo

― assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 10 June 2024 01:17 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

its up there with the girlboss sequence in the avengers fingersnapemoji fingersnapemoji

close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Monday, 10 June 2024 07:44 (four days ago) link

i think it might be on cringe par if Galadriel and a revitalized Arwen had materialized behind Eowyn, with Rosie from the Shire striding in from another direction and maybe the rediscovered Ent-Wives popping up carrying boulders.

omar little, Monday, 10 June 2024 18:32 (four days ago) link

I AM NO MAN. I AM IRONMAN!
snaps fingers

scanner darkly, Monday, 10 June 2024 19:16 (four days ago) link

"I AM NO MAN" works as a more iconic moment than the wordy banter imo

― assert (matttkkkk), Sunday, June 9, 2024 9:17 PM

otm

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2024 21:14 (four days ago) link

Needless to say we've talked about this film (and the Rankin-Basses) on the podcast. Another thing that Rankin-Bass does that Jackson didn't was have the proper faceoff between the Lord of the Nazgul and Gandalf at the ruined gate right before the Rohirrim arrive -- the Jackson version was in the extended cut and didn't have anywhere as much impact as the book, due to changing when and where it happened.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, June 9, 2024

It made sense to cut it given how it's directed. The Witch King is about to strike, the horns blow, and he turns around and goes, "Uh, brb, I left the oven on" and flies away.

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2024 21:15 (four days ago) link

and due to his lack of intervention w/the Rohan charge, that's apparently what he went off to do.

the wordy banter could have really worked, if directed and staged well. just to return some supernatural menace to the Nazgul. and you could have still ended on the same verbal coup de grâce from Eowyn. but it's all good, she took down that Witch-King hard, damn.

omar little, Monday, 10 June 2024 22:37 (four days ago) link

My preferred version is the one in Tolkien's third manuscript, reprinted in one of the oversized folio editions, but I admit it might work better on the page than on the screen:

'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'

Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed.... 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'

The winged creature screamed at her, but then the Ringwraith was silent, as if in sudden doubt. Eowyn, daughter of Théodwyn, had torn him open. His guts had fallen out.

not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 June 2024 02:45 (three days ago) link

He was naked to the Lidless Eye, and his terror was extreme.

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 11 June 2024 08:40 (three days ago) link

Hell yeah

not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 June 2024 13:48 (three days ago) link

even the lord of the Nazgul sometimes must have to stand naked

the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2024 13:58 (three days ago) link


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