advice on fighting a speeding ticket

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i completely forgot i have to be in court monday.

120km on the highway (a 100 limit), if he'd only reduced it by 5km i wouldn't be losing 3 points. so since i don't want to risk my insurance company jacking up the rates i'm fighting it. when i applied to challenge the offense (10 bloody months ago) i said i wasn't going to be debating the evidence - which means the cop (opp) doesn't need to show up. i'm going to tell them i was doing the speed of traffic and try to convince the judge to reduce it.

what do i call a judge in ontario, btw - "your honour", "your lordship", "sir/ma'am", "buddy"¿

please tell me if this might work & anything else i should know.

dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

People often tell me (why I don't know, since I don't have a car) that putting off your court date at the last possible moment, as many times as you can, is a good idea. I'm not sure what this accomplishes other than that the cop might be less likely to turn up, or if she does turn up she'll have forgotten a bunch of stuff, and also basically just not care any more.

Why did you say you weren't going to debate the evidence?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.courttv.com/graphics/photos/trials/vandam/inside/lede/judge_inside_081302.jpg

J: "OK, it says here that you're not going to be debating the fact that you were speeding, mr. dyson."

mr. D: "that's right, your honour."

J: "OK, what are you going to do?"

mr. D: "well, you see, your honour, it wasn't just me."

J: "I sentance you to death."

http://www.eji.org/images/internal_chair.jpg

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:27 (seventeen years ago) link

rjg - do i get the amount reduced or what¿

Why did you say you weren't going to debate the evidence?
because i'm a tool.
honestly, i can't remember, i'm sure i had my reasons at the time. probably because i'm not really debating the whole "speeding" thing.

dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

mr. D: "well, you see, your honour, it wasn't just me."

:D

Allyzay, Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Keep him busy with the jab, make sure your guard stays lose at all time, and go for the head in the third.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Um to understand my delight you have to sing RJG's entry Shaggy-style. Never mind.

Allyzay, Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

The insurance points don't kick in until the case is fully closed and all fines paid, so putting it off as long as possible will delay points being applied. Just keep on putting it off for one reason or another. Certainly there are statues of limitations, right?

Speaking of which, on a semi-different matter, how do I find out the statute of limitation for something? I couldn't (apparently) find out the answer in the US Code, which is where the offense was detailed.

Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

i just remembered something i heard once. kind of based on what giralamo said about not losing points until the case is fully closed. if i were to pay the fine off and make the cheque out for too much they would (in theory) have to return the difference to keep the books balanced. if i were to never cash the cheque for the difference they send me back, the books are never closed and therefor i never lose the points.

i am quite sure this theory is bullshit.

i'm am also sure that unless i manage to put this thing off for, like, 10 years the ministry is going to want their money. also i'd probably not be able to renew my license.

dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 21:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i am quite sure this theory is bullshit.

Is quite good theory, but if that strategy worked, wouldn't everyone be as clued up?

That said, good luck, Dyson....

Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

wouldn't everyone be as clued up
- you're forgetting that i live in ontario

dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Um to understand my delight you have to sing RJG's entry Shaggy-style. Never mind.

I am so glad I'm not the only person who still thinks that's funny.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

if i were to never cash the cheque for the difference they send me back, the books are never closed and therefor i never lose the points. I'm pretty sure this is an urban myth, in fact *googles*

Yep: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ticket.asp

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 30 October 2003 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link

dude use the kinematic equations!!

geeta (geeta), Thursday, 30 October 2003 02:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Tell them is wasn't you.

ModJ (ModJ), Thursday, 30 October 2003 02:19 (seventeen years ago) link

one of my old college profs had a method for fighting radar-based tickets. basically it came down to that the cop had to be able to demonstrate how the gun was calibrated, to prove that it was accurate. the point being that only a ver few individuals have that knowledge/skill, so your average cop simply can't show you. however, if this were going to work you might have to have brought this issue up at the time of receiving the ticket.

and maybe it's b.s. anyway. found some stuff on google, including this:

http://www.norman-law.com/page29.html

ron (ron), Thursday, 30 October 2003 07:10 (seventeen years ago) link

surely the statute of limitations doesn't apply to a case that's actually in process.

Skottie, Thursday, 30 October 2003 07:31 (seventeen years ago) link

ok dyson, i think i can put your mind at ease...

i've fought a few tickets in toronto (mostly parking, but finally got a speeding ticket last year). 'guilty with an explanation' is what it is, methinks... i disputed them even though i was in the wrong, because i didn't want to lose the points and pay the big fine, but mostly because a friend told me the cops usually don't show up and you almost ALWAYS have the fine/charge reduced. all you have to do is simply show up sober and not acting like a maniac. you probably won't even have time to explain yourself.

are you in toronto? if you are, it works like this: you sit on a shitty wooden bench waiting your turn with countless other deadbeats like yourself. your name gets called, you go up and confirm who you are, the judge will either (a) simply reduce the fine and send you off straight away without a word from you, or (b) s/he asks you what happened, you start to sheepishly explain about the 'flow of traffic', and before you finish your sentence s/he cuts you off, reduces the fine and sends you on your way, wondering what the hell just happened. ahhhh, nothing like watching taxpayers money being put to good use, is there?

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 30 October 2003 14:39 (seventeen years ago) link

thanks dude.
i just found this site which is alot of help too (when it loads).
i read on another site that the court can only reduce fines and not points - which will suck if it's true.

dyson (dyson), Thursday, 30 October 2003 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

ha ha -
i fought the law
and
i
won

i fough the law
and
dys-won.

okay i was still convicted, but i got what i wanted. had a pretrial chat with the prosecutor and agreed to lowering the speed to 15 over. no points and the fine was reduced from $135 to $55.

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

But think of the damage to your Permanent Record.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Tracer, agreed, but let Dyson have his five seconds. Would it matter much, unless you get pulled over for something, again?

Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:06 (seventeen years ago) link

right. and i hardly drive anymore. 2 years and the ticket is ancient history.

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

God remembers everything, dyson.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

And He will remember how you lied about "traffic flow" when in fact you were drag-racing with Satan.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

god will remeber how i left satan eating my smoke.
it's santa remembering that i'm more worried about.

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

ahh the saga continues - back to court for me.

i have a parking pass for an area remotely near my apartment (an 20 effing minute walk away). i leave my car alone for 3 days - as i have done many times. return to my car, or where it was, to discover it's been towed. $15 cab ride and $115 donation to the local towing company later i find 6 tickets under my wiper at $20 each. apparently at the beginning of each month the side of the street you're supposed to park on switches - news to me.

i swear to god i want the fucking secret decoder ring that allows me to translate what the hell all the fucked up fucking parking signs hanging all over this goddamn fucking city mean. fucking fuck.

i have no plan. i'm just fighting these tickets - i've been punished enough. then i am going to drive my car into the lake and be rid of this city-of-toronto-revenue-generating-machine for good.

dyson (dyson), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:38 (seventeen years ago) link

The side-switching on various residential streets around the city is infuriating for a number of reasons: One, it's not often clear that you have to do it. Two, often times when you switch sides your street loses several parking spots because the number of driveways isn't the same, and generally all the hydrants are on one side of the street; this results in musical parking spots that can turn violent, especially when people start parking like dicks, effectively taking up two spots because they parked three feet back from a driveway. Three, it's not consistent through the whole year, because you don't have to switch sides through the winter on many streets. Four, as pointed out above, SIGNAGE IS REALLY FUCKING CONFUSING.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:58 (seventeen years ago) link

i was told by a friend of mine that the t-dot is the most ticketed place in the known universe.

dyson (dyson), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:01 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

Another great site for tickets in ontario is <a href="Ontario Demerit Points. it lists all the demerit points and how they effect your licenece. Who knew turning at the wrong place could cost you 2 points? stupid!

Adrian, Saturday, 10 November 2007 14:27 (thirteen years ago) link

I heard on the news today that in Reigate, only 9% of parking tickets which are challenged are rendered void, but in Westminster, 88% are.

Mark C, Saturday, 10 November 2007 14:38 (thirteen years ago) link

eight months pass...

seriously FUCK traffic tickets with a motherfucking shovel

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 July 2008 08:46 (twelve years ago) link

three years pass...

I just got a $480 red light violation ticket from one of those automated camera things. how do you beat this shit in court? I've never had a ticket/moving violation/accident before, this is all new to me

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 11 September 2011 14:34 (nine years ago) link

What the fuck. 480 dollar?!? A few months ago I think I did it too but later on I learned that they only fine from 1,5 seconds of red light or sth. Afterwards I also discovered there wasn't a camera. Thank god: if I was caught I might have to redo my exam as I only have my license for less than a year. Then again, I should also be lucky for not causing an accident. Far worse than an exam or fine imo.

Just had a ticket cause I turned into a street which wasn't allowed. Temporarily cause they are doing works there. Funnily enough I followed another car. lol. 50 euros. Not contesting this at all. I mean, it's only 50 euros.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 11 September 2011 16:43 (nine years ago) link

any Americans got any useful legal advice

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 15:20 (nine years ago) link

Not a clue -- sorry, man, $480 is a piece of change.

Antonio Carlos Broheem (WmC), Monday, 12 September 2011 15:22 (nine years ago) link

if you get the ticket drunk before the fight, its reflexes won't be as fast and you'll be able to get more punches in

ibiza bloodfarty rock anthem (some dude), Monday, 12 September 2011 15:25 (nine years ago) link

this sucks. I'm going to write to request a written trial since I think there were extenuating circumstances (there had been an accident in my lane a couple blocks ahead, which had disrupted the flow of traffic and people were changing lanes, spending entire green light in intersection, etc.) plus I can lol plead mercy as a normally conscientious driver I guess. I could request an in-person trial as well. I guess the issue is which do cops like to do less: appear in court or fill out paperwork.

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:02 (nine years ago) link

in my experience showing up at court and pleading for mercy usually results in a 50% discount, fortunately I have not had to do this in years.

sleeve, Monday, 12 September 2011 16:05 (nine years ago) link

court trial. dress slutty.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:07 (nine years ago) link

I wouldn't make a very pretty slut, unfortunately.

pros re: court trial - cop less likely to show up and argue? increased likelihood of leniency?
cons: I am more persuasive with the written word than I am nervous and in person. also would have to take time off work which would mean $$$/time off lost

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:16 (nine years ago) link

christ on a stick, $480???

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 September 2011 16:20 (nine years ago) link

If it's an automated camera ticket, would they need a cop to show up?

If you lose, will court costs be tacked on to the 480?

Antonio Carlos Broheem (WmC), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:20 (nine years ago) link

citation sez:

"an officer and witnesses will be present"

it doesn't say anything about court costs, apart from a fine if I fail to appear ($300)

re: a written trial, there's no mention of a cop, it just says "the judge will make a judgment based up on your Written Declaration and the photographic evidence which will be subpoenaed by this court"

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:28 (nine years ago) link

who 'witnessed' this, if it was a camera?

comes correct with his gameboy (k3vin k.), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:37 (nine years ago) link

well I dunno what other witnesses the city would call. I had people in the car with me (am also considering using "distracted by semi-hysterical toddler" defense)

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:41 (nine years ago) link

Did you see this page? http://www.amusings.com/san-francisco-red-light-camera-tickets/

Lots of good info for SF.

svend, Monday, 12 September 2011 16:46 (nine years ago) link

seems like the plead guilty + traffic school option is halfway decent.

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 September 2011 16:59 (nine years ago) link

Good timing, I have to do this soon.

Last one of these I got, a whole bunch of cops did not show up and those that did "could not recall" the incident resulting in it being forgiven.

Mine is $360 for going 65 in a 35, which seems way faster than I was going, I did not even really think I was speeding. But it is a long, underdeveloped stretch of straight road leading through an industrial area just outside of Downtown LA. I see cops with radar there all the time now picking people off, so it is a total speed trap. There's no way you can keep to 35 on that road.

Pizzataco Five (admrl), Monday, 12 September 2011 16:59 (nine years ago) link

seems like the plead guilty + traffic school option is halfway decent.

yeah altho I'm a bit confused. it looks like you show up, plead NOT GUILTY, and then they offer you a reduced fine + traffic school in order not to pursue the case...?

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:22 (nine years ago) link

oh is it not guilty? i guess at that point pursuing the case costs them more than the fine would collect.

call all destroyer, Monday, 12 September 2011 17:24 (nine years ago) link

I think so... I don't get why you would request a trial and plead guilty, seems like that's a bigger waste of the court's time.

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:29 (nine years ago) link

At least in NJ, the way you do it is to plead not guilty and request a trial. Then on the day of your court appearance, the prosecutor will typically offer you a plea deal (provided your offense is not too, um, offensive). The deal they typically offer you is a reduction on the points, but not necessarily on the fine - however, your situation may vary. Basically the point of the plea deal is to save them the hassle of holding a trial for you.

o. nate, Monday, 12 September 2011 17:37 (nine years ago) link

that makes sense

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:40 (nine years ago) link

SO why would you take that deal instead of doing traffic school and paying the fine?

Pizzataco Five (admrl), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:48 (nine years ago) link

^^^that is the deal. you get a reduced fine + traffic school and they waive the trial.

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:51 (nine years ago) link

see refs in linked site above

you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 September 2011 17:51 (nine years ago) link

I'm not sure how that works in NJ, but I think the traffic school is something separate that you can do any time to reduce points on your license. I don't think it has anything to do with the plea deal.

o. nate, Monday, 12 September 2011 17:52 (nine years ago) link

nine months pass...

seriously FUCK traffic tickets with a motherfucking shovel

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, July 11, 2008 4:46 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Some of the truest words ever. I'm simmering with anger and hope I can keep it from boiling over here at work.

i like slash and i vote (j.lu), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 16:49 (eight years ago) link

run very fast and try and squat it.

jel --, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 16:54 (eight years ago) link

swot, I mean.

jel --, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 16:56 (eight years ago) link

Hope the officer that wrote your ticket doesn't show up in court. When I had to go recently I wasn't one of the lucky ones, but three officers didn't show up and easily 40-45% of the people in the room had theirs dismissed.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 16:58 (eight years ago) link

My first inclination is to suck it up and pay the fine, rather than trying to contest it. But is this sort of thing really worth challenging?

i like slash and i vote (j.lu), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 17:03 (eight years ago) link

eight years pass...

Got slammed for doing 42 in a 25mph zone (aka a local side street in the 'burbs). Defund the motherfuckin' police.

Nhex, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 01:04 (one week ago) link

Yeah but if you defund them they're going to be that much more aggressive with speeding tickets to compensate. Maybe go with deflate instead.

Evan, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:07 (one week ago) link


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