Is painfully innaccurate bullshit hollywood cameo crazy stereotypical racist messianic horseshit ok as long as it's VIBRANT, intense horseshit? As long as John Candy plays a sweaty jive-talker who thinks that Costner is as crazy as his mamma, goes to show its in the genes?
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:33 (eighteen years ago) link
And the Rooker! How can you forget Michael Rooker?
...
I seriously need to stop raving about all this before I stain my pants.
― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:45 (eighteen years ago) link
Never stopped Stone!
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 01:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 03:16 (eighteen years ago) link
And Stone was up front (eventually, maybe? I don't remember if he said this all along) about the history being fucked; "it's a myth, yeah, but it's a myth to counter the equally-false one we've been handed by the gov't," sentiments to that effect. Hell, I'd like to see more intentionally-fucked history in movies, without it being played for laughs; there could be a lot of material there.
As for the ensemble cast thing: anything else about the movie aside, has the "huge cast of famous people" thing been done better than in this? Altman's good with that, but I don't know if he ever did it quite this well, especially if you don't count Short Cuts.
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 03:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:38 (eighteen years ago) link
(Okay, I forgot about that one. I'd have to see it again, though.)
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― theodore fogelsanger, Wednesday, 15 October 2003 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link
sadly this important historical revelation is nowhere reflected in stone's film
"the parallax effect" and "three days of the condor" are two pretty good 70s 12-ft-lizard movies abt assassination politics
― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link
JFK is *made* by that mr. x/sutherland sequence,but yep those techniques of multi-film stock/editing craziness etc seemed brilliant/insane/eye-popping in '92. nobody else had done anything like that. in fact 'nbk' was just re-hashing most of them shot for shot andno-one noticed as they hadn't seen jfk in the 1st place. it was a seriously under-watched film at the time, but at 2 hrs 20 minuteseven in it's original non-director's cut that isn't surprising.
stone never ever ever said anything about it being the whole truth.it was well known that x was based on prouty, although obviously the waters are yet more muddied around the conspiracy by the fact that he goes too far the other way in trying to convince us of his version, but hey it asked a lot of questions, and it made people ask more questions etc etc. empire magazine gave it some kind of weird 'inspiration' award about 5 years ago for some reason and stone showed up, gave a speech looking genuinely touched, moved etc.
there was an *astonishing* episode of DISPATCHES (channel 4, uk)which i had seen early 90's ('91 ?) not long before seeing the movie,and that was all facts no theory, it definitely helped to see something like that beforehand.
sutherland's fave bit of all his 80's/90's work he says. 3 months prep for 1 days' acting by all accnts. one day !
" does that sound like a bunch of coincidences to you mr garrison ? ...not for one moment"
― piscesboy, Thursday, 16 October 2003 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 16 October 2003 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 16 October 2003 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link
Of course, Alexander will be when he stops blaming the gays and ethnics for everything that's wrong with the world. Naturally. I should really see Salvador. It's got James Woods and it's not a revisionist take on American history. Whew.
Yes, Sutherland was great. Though I really wish they'd given John Candy more scenes.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 16 October 2003 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 16 October 2003 18:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 16 October 2003 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 16 October 2003 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link
That documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and the follow up are also worth watching if you are interested in the Kennedy assassination. I think Stone nicked more from it than he would want to admit.
― earlnash, Friday, 17 October 2003 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link
still a really good movie!
― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 17 October 2003 05:00 (eighteen years ago) link
That's what I always say, too.
― oops (Oops), Friday, 17 October 2003 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link
This pitch is copyright, btw.
― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 17 October 2003 12:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 17 October 2003 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link
(I must have time on my hands)
― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link
(posner quotes ballistics expert donahue to refute criticism of the "magic bullet" theory but gets his name wrong)
(ps my friend adair's decisive refutation of posner's book: "Jesus, look at that man's HAIR OIL!!") (this shd also have been in stone's film)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― Knoll Edmonds (Enrique), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:26 (eighteen years ago) link
it claims the secret servicemen surrounding him DID know, but covered it up as it was an accident and oswald had already shot jfk fatally and why introduce irrelevancies which wd damage an innocent if clumsy colleague's career needlessly blah blah
the witnesses on the verge etc were anyway notoriously all over the place as to where the various shots came from in terms of puffs of smoke, drifts of smoke and sounds of shots complete w.echoes, plus already looking all directions away from the cars bcz oswald had already fired twice (missed car altogether first time, hit kennedy AND connaly second time)
hickey WAS armed with this gun: that's historically attested to, and visible in some of the photos, esp.the later ones where the motorcade is speeding to the hospital and he's holding it pointed upwards
plus also there's photographic studies of what direction a pumpkin wrapped in masking tape will lurch if you fire a gun into it
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:42 (eighteen years ago) link
Blimey Mark. Full-on shit there. Er, I'll go with it, but LHO managed a fatal shot? Or maybe he *would* have if CIA guy hadn't? I'm well outta my depth, my Dad was mad into it and I was all yeah yeah: classic conspiracy scene: Annie Hall.
The motorcade sped on...
― Steinski (Enrique), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link
i think oswald did it end-of-story, but if you want a good conspiracy, menninger's is my favourite on aesthetix-of-slapstick grounds
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Or just read Posner's book.
― Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 17 October 2003 15:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Quite honestly though the most despicable thing about JFK the film is that it names and implicates Clay Shaw as being involved in the killing, when in reality he was just a businessman with an extremely tenuous connection to the CIA. Garrison was a scumbag, really. Tried to indict a guy from Cali in the JFK plot, because he once wrote him the prez a threatening letter.
― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 18 October 2003 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link
I have a friend who always gets pretty mad at historical inaccuracies in movies (esp regarding world war II movies).
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 19 October 2003 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 19 October 2003 21:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 20 October 2003 01:24 (eighteen years ago) link
if you wannabe my loveru gotta shoot up my friends
― Deez NFTs (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 3 May 2022 18:32 (three weeks ago) link
garrison (squeaky with horror at the chaotic info-dump that agent "X" just unloaded on him): "i can't believe they killed him bcz he wanted to *change* things!" me (squeaky with exhaustion even tho im watching this dumb movie in half-hour stretches): "yeah they didn't u colossal nincompoop"agent "X" (not real name apparently): long section late in (longer) info-dump explaining how robert macnamara of all ppl lol was undermining the drive to war
sutherland is fun to watch of course but his character -- this unflappably amused and cynical aristocratic deep throat -- makes no sense (yes i know he's based on fletcher prouty, and yeah, 30 years later prouty does come across more like this in affect on youtube and wherever)
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 17:48 (three weeks ago) link
agent "X" (not real name apparently): "you've become a significant threat to the national security structure! they'd have killed you already bit you've gotta lotta light on you!" me (eyes rolling down the back mf my head and along the floor): "unlike president john f kennedy in dallas who no one was paying to attention or had even heard of really" narrator: "he had not become a significant threat to the national security structure"
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 17:54 (three weeks ago) link
words david ferrie did not say in the early to mid-1960s: "wannabe"
― mark s, Tuesday, May 3, 2022 6:09 PM (yesterday)
online etymology dictionary traces this one to 1981. clearly david ferrie was sent back in time by the true murderers to throw us off the trail.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:01 (three weeks ago) link
lol ffs the weepy strings on this scene
https://i.imgur.com/56zQw6U.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/95I0y3u.jpg https://i.imgur.com/aIlN9jm.jpg
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:06 (three weeks ago) link
not gnna lie i wanna see the plays clay shaw wrote
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:14 (three weeks ago) link
was really not prepared to find out why people were talking about Jar Jar Binks and JFK— Sarah Jones (@onesarahjones) May 4, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:20 (three weeks ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/odvOVBB.png
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:24 (three weeks ago) link
divorce him liz he isn't worth it, get out and save yrself
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:26 (three weeks ago) link
lol this domestic squabble is Q-pilling me to see this movie as verhoeven-level irony
need someone to shop showgirls and jfk into the same poster tbrr
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 18:37 (three weeks ago) link
Don't ever let me watch a movie sitting next to mark s.
― Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Wednesday, 4 May 2022 20:38 (three weeks ago) link
its true i talk non-stop and take pix wth my phone and post them on the internet
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 May 2022 20:44 (three weeks ago) link
but dont worry i will never let you do that
do not forget your dying king, mark!
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 4 May 2022 21:21 (three weeks ago) link
nothing u say can ruin my enjoyment of this movie
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 May 2022 04:15 (three weeks ago) link
What if no one shot JFK and his head just did that?— Tom Broome-Jones | Black Lives Matter (@TBroomey) August 3, 2017
― mark s, Thursday, 5 May 2022 09:36 (three weeks ago) link
more champagne!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 May 2022 10:02 (three weeks ago) link
"sutherland is fun to watch" is part of the key here. Facts and logic will ofc destroy a lot of what he is saying (though not all - war driving growth is a powerful aspect, what with the industry and networks built around defence -- all the way up to billions in contracting in Afghanistan). but it's all delivery, coupled with the hard to believe fact that a lone person could've killed the most powerful person in the world. Sutherland's monologue is a sorta cry for their lot not being as good as they think they are, and the damage of that knowledge.
Around the fourth or fifth time of watching I get round to thinking people can win. Maybe in the end we could get out of this prison.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 5 May 2022 10:20 (three weeks ago) link
back on my bullshit = being correct abt how dumb and bad this movie is
now watching the last hour (i had to take a big time out from the nonsense one week ago): back in to discover johnny carson was also in on the fix, literally the only person not in the conspiracy was garrison bcz he's so milkily annoying
― mark s, Saturday, 14 May 2022 13:38 (two weeks ago) link
i do remember exactly where i was when i heard the news of rfk's assassination: i was at the kitchen table in a little welsh farmhouse where we went every year for our summer holiday, listening to dad's little portable radio… tho all i remember is sounds of muffled shouting and chaos, like the bbc radio new was broadcasting live from the scene
i also remember that this occurred during the broadcast on the same radio -- which i listened to at the same kitchen table -- of the moon landing: as my memory has it, it went "giant step for mankind", muffled shouting, shots, chaos…
stone shd make a movie abt THAT when sirhan sirhan gets out, sirhan can play buzz aldrin
― mark s, Saturday, 14 May 2022 13:54 (two weeks ago) link
tommy lee jones shd wear this wig in all his movies tbf
― mark s, Saturday, 14 May 2022 13:57 (two weeks ago) link
^ that's right (for a change)
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 14 May 2022 14:31 (two weeks ago) link
feel like this summing up (which doesn't once mention clay shaw) is not going to do the work of convicting clay shaw
― mark s, Saturday, 14 May 2022 15:03 (two weeks ago) link
not guilty (good verdict)
― mark s, Saturday, 14 May 2022 15:11 (two weeks ago) link
Can we please go back to posting random bits of dialogue now that Mark S is done watching?
Best movie ever.
― ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:49 (one week ago) link
Can we do them from memory, though?Kevin Costner: what I’m saying is that in order for the government’s theory about the assassination of JFK, née John Fitzgerald Kennedy, our nation’s favorite son, to make sense, we must prescribe to what i am calling Magic Bullet Time theory, which is actually quite interesting if true. Roll the footage
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:53 (one week ago) link
The government's gonna jump all over your head, mark, and go "cock-a-doodle-doo!" Good day, sir!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:53 (one week ago) link
Costner: I don’t like the looks of this one bit. Let’s put some grits on the iron and keep the coffee coming honey, there’s gonna be some paperwork filed tonight
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:55 (one week ago) link
xp That's what I mean.
― ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:56 (one week ago) link
That is precisely the point of a loooong JFK thread.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:58 (one week ago) link
this Oswald character, I agree that he must have been involved. But here's the thing -- I don't think he acted alone.
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 18:32 (one week ago) link
It's JFK's fault.
i wrote about a specific style of fandom-led conspiracy thinking that has become quietly quite popular over the last 10 years and is now making its highly public debut! https://t.co/hpZpqmGR6J— Kaitlyn Tiffany (@kait_tiffany) May 17, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 May 2022 21:16 (one week ago) link
xyzzzz ain't got no reason to lie, he already in ILX!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 May 2022 21:24 (one week ago) link
When you’re taking about the greatness of John Candy, never sleep on his role in JFK: “The government’s gonna jump all over your head, Jimbo, and go cock-a-doodle-doo.” pic.twitter.com/3XgLh6Mrzr— Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) May 18, 2022
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 May 2022 06:40 (one week ago) link
"Ya got the right ta-ta but the wrong ho-ho" may be the greatest line in movie history.
― Eggs Benedick (Eric H.), Thursday, 19 May 2022 10:06 (one week ago) link
stop eatin' that crab meat and listen!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 May 2022 10:08 (one week ago) link
like i told the fbi: that call was a figment of my imagination!
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 19 May 2022 15:43 (one week ago) link
All I wanted to be was a Catholic priest
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 May 2022 09:39 (one week ago) link
If it's a suicide, I seen weirder, Jim.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 May 2022 09:41 (one week ago) link
The president has been shot! He has been taken to a hospital but he is going to make it. Johnson will carry out the responsibilities of president until Jack is able to recover. We really dodged a bullet there, boys
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Saturday, 21 May 2022 14:54 (one week ago) link
Why don't we drop this subject. It's one thing to engage in badinage with all these youngsters, but this sort of thing could be So. Easily. Misunderstood.
― ArchCarrier, Saturday, 21 May 2022 16:41 (one week ago) link
More champagne!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 May 2022 16:53 (one week ago) link
Here's to the New Frontier. Camelot in smithereens. I'll drink to that.
― ArchCarrier, Saturday, 21 May 2022 17:01 (one week ago) link
I've seen enough in this place to write a book.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 May 2022 17:07 (one week ago) link
A week after the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy in November 1963, Kennedy's widow, Jackie Kennedy, was interviewed by Theodore H. White, an interview that ran in the December 1963 issue of Life magazine. In the interview, Jackie stated that the show's original cast recording had been a favorite bedtime listening for her husband (who had been Lerner's classmate at Harvard University),[16] and that his favorite lines were in the final number: "Don't let it be forgot/ That once there was a spot/ For one brief, shining moment/ That was known as Camelot".[17] She also made a direct comparison to the Camelot storyline, saying, "There'll be great presidents again... but there'll never be another Camelot." The veracity of her claim about her husband's love of Camelot has been disputed.[18]
>:(
― mark s, Saturday, 21 May 2022 17:09 (one week ago) link
I always lock my files!
― Eggs Benedick (Eric H.), Monday, 23 May 2022 14:33 (five days ago) link
Don't fuck this one up!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 May 2022 14:48 (five days ago) link
There's a lot of smoke there, but there's some fire.
― peace, man, Wednesday, 25 May 2022 11:32 (three days ago) link
this murder of JFK...you better believe it's gonna make the papers tomorrow morning, boys
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 25 May 2022 15:45 (three days ago) link
Grace, put another kettle on the oven. I think me and the boys have some more work to do tonight at this kitchen table
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 25 May 2022 15:46 (three days ago) link