What can you tell me about Autism?

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I'm having to learn about autism for my work, it's a new subject to me and I'm finding it fascinating. For example we have a kid who can't speak, tie his shoes and is not toilet trained at 12 but has a fascination with numbers and can put flash cards in numeric order, no problem.

I read that computer programmers have a larger incidence of autism, and therefore have more autistic kids. I've run across several organizations with basic information, but I am very interested in "on-the-ground" eyewitness-type experience with it.

What can you tell me about autism in K-12 kids?

Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 00:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Absolutely nothing, except the one thing that comes to mind when autism is mentioned: a casual friend of mine had a daughter with Tourette's syndrome, and before the doctors decided on Tourette's, they thought she was autistic ... which really screwed with the way I saw both of those things.

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 00:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Interesting, I've just been reading up on this myself.

REad "An Anthropologist on Mars" by Oliver Sacks. Two of the case studies within are about prodigious autists - one young guy who is a very good artist, and a woman with milder autism who is some kind of scientist. Sacks is very readable, no medical jargon to wade through, and his footnotes recommend other works you could then branch out to.

I used to live with a friend who had Aspbergers syndrome (a sort of very mild autism) He was socially very odd, couldnt deal with a lot of people, refused to use the phone, really struggled with day to day stuff like going to work. But he could read a programming book from cover to cover and pick apart code at assembly level like a demon.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 00:31 (sixteen years ago) link

I was at a conference this weekend, and an MD explained that Tourette's, tics, and Autism are related and can mimic each other. It was interesting. It seems that Tourette's is the first thing that the doctor has to rule out before they can go on to Autism as a possiblity. They also talked a lot about "the autistic spectrum" but this stuff seems to play out in so many unique combinations in individuals. I had heard of the Sacks book but never got around to it--my reading list just grew! Grrrrrrr. ;-)

Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 00:45 (sixteen years ago) link

My half-brother is a very low-functioning autistic who has spent the bulk of his 33 years living in group homes and other state-run facilities for the developmentally disabled, as well as psych wards. He was in the mainstream school system for a while, in special ed classes, but they couldn't keep him there forever, so he was phased out of it.

He was a very verbal child, much like the Leonardo Di Caprio character in Gilbert Grape -- obsessive-compulsive behavior, fixations on certain ideas or words that would lock into his brain for hours on end, a constant need for attention that wasn't so much communicative as it was a performance in search of a Rube Goldberg-style mechanistic A-triggers-B reaction. He acted out a lot, sometimes violently. He was put on heavy medication, and one of his caregivers (I forget who... I think it was the Payne Whitney hospital) wanted to send him to the Behavior Research Institute for electroshock tests and other forms of behavior modification. When he got a little older he started to shut down -- he stopped talking, stopped expressing himself, didn't speak unless he was spoken to directly, and then only reluctantly, in the simplest yes/no terms. This is what he's like now... it's sad to think of how lively he used to be compared to how physically slow and zombielike he is these days.

Does he have Rain Man-style "savant" qualities? Well... he's great at puzzles. He can read (a bit). He remembers song lyrics he hears from the radio and sometimes sings them at random. But there are many different degrees/faces of autism, and the Rain Man is by no means representative of all of them. If anything autistic people are known for being exceptionally quiet and withdrawn. The Asperger's strain is a bit different -- it betrays a lack of social skills through exaggerated behavior and failure to pick up cues. But in general, autists can't, in a basic fundamental way, relate to other people. That's all I know...

animal wrangler (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 01:44 (sixteen years ago) link

My folks thought I was autistic when I was really young, but it turned out not to be the case. The Sacks book Trayce reccomended is just great, by the way. Really, really liked it.

s1utsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 01:47 (sixteen years ago) link

Jody - yeah it's often assumed that all autistic people have a savant talent of some sort, and they don't always. It just happens to be a lot higher than in normally functioning people (from memory, Sacks said something like 25% of austistic people develop a savant skill of some kind, as opposed to 1 in 10000 in regular people, something like that).

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 02:00 (sixteen years ago) link

Another excellent author on autism is Temple Grandin. She is autistic, but very high-functioning and has a PhD. She recognizes that a huge amount of the communication of 'normal' people is social in nature, but she can barely decipher it and finds it maddening and pointless.

Aimless, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 03:57 (sixteen years ago) link

I live with someone who has mild Asberger's (or Asburger's?) Syndrome ... like very mild autism. He struggles to read people and has difficulty understanding and identifying emotions, but he's also loving and caring and giving. I cannot imagine how difficult it is for him to function with someone like me, who is so emotional.

My sister's M.A. is in Special Ed., concentrating on Autism in pre-K groups. If you're interested, Orbit, I can have her dig-up a reading list on the topic.

(And I second An Anthropologist on Mars as being an interesting introduction to the topic, and lots of Temple Grandin's works, too.)

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:14 (sixteen years ago) link

related link on Asperger's and electro:

Electro and Asperger's syndrome

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:17 (sixteen years ago) link

My oldest nephew, Rowan, is a kind of high-functioning autistic called hyperlexic. He started talking latish, and learned to read on his own around three. When he was a toddler, he would read and repeat all kinds of signs when riding in the car -- his father thought he was just memorizing the shapes, but he was reading. Rowan tends to get extremely "into" things (would make a fantastic record collector!) from Thomas the Tank Engine (which his mother says all the autistic kids they know love) to Barbie. He's smart, funny, and kind of weird in a way that's hard to explain. The stereotype of the autistic kid is that they're socially reserved, but Rowan is extremely loving towards his family and friends. He's gone to regular school all along, sometimes with an assistant. He's just started regular junior high school, hope the kids aren't too much of bastards to him.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:20 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm especially interested in Asperger's Syndrome. I think there are others here who can speak about it.

Texas, Biyatch! (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:34 (sixteen years ago) link

The fascination with high functioning levels such as Aspbergers is that FOCUS a person with it gets on things. Fixating on things, collecting things, photohgraphic memories, brilliance at the sciences or art, etc.

I thought more about my friend with it - he collected his hair in a bottle, and 20 cent coins for every year the mint pressed them, and every copy of the Green Guide (local weekly tv guide) for years and years. Very odd things, but stuff that would once have been passed off as "eccentric". Now I guess we have a better understanding of these things.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:45 (sixteen years ago) link

Actually, that raises an interesting question, Trayce: Do you think that maybe these sorts of things are being 'over-diagnosed'? At what point does an individual eccentricity move into the realm of being a medical problem? Is society losing the more creative/genius people because of medical diagnoses and medication and other treatments?

(I ask because a friend is considering Lithium to treat Manic Depression and is worried about losing his desire to be creative, which is what happens ever time he's been on the medicine. He says that with the medication he looses all of his spark of life and so forth, but that he cannot continue to function with the depression in its current state.)

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:57 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah that thought did occur to me as I was typing it, and I agree it may be the same with bipolar, ADD, etc.

I've found myself constantly worried over wether I'm "sane" because I swing from manic activity and higely high moods (hence my "thanks" post the other day) to an extreme crash to the point of paranoia and inability to leave house 24 hours later... but I dont want to go see someone about that, because I *like* my weird moods, theyre what give me my fire and my creativity.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:00 (sixteen years ago) link

*nodding* Exactly! I guess that such stuff needs to be addressed medically, when one cannot function in society as a result of the emotional alignment. I mean, I think that sometimes we've become a society that seeks explanations and solutions as to why anyone would deviate from the 'norm,' without ever acknowledging that no-one is 'norm.' Whatever happened to the days when eccentrics were viewed fondly? (Okay, maybe not ALL eccentrics. But some.)

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:11 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm in the minority on this apparently, but here's something copied from my blog, www.espressowerk.blogspot.com

Are Creativity and Insanity Linked?

It's been said here and there that creativity is aligned with mental illness. The evidence cited is usually correlative, which is to say, there is plenty of evidence that mental illness is more prevalent in the artistic community than in the general community (incidentally, what a Victorian curio is that phrase, ‘mental illness’ – a sickness in the mind).

Correlations... they are the very devil. They invite us to draw causal relations where none have been established. Poverty is higher in the artistic community than the general community too? Are we going to conclude that poverty is congenial to art? Are you an artist? Do you find it really helps not to be able to afford to repair your equipment, buy your paints and canvas, pay the rent? Do you get the album finished more quickly because you break a guitar string and can’t afford to replace it? Because you can’t afford a studio, a rehearsal room, a CD burner to run off demos? Or does it hinder your creativity? It's the latter, isn't it? Poverty and being creative are correlated, they go hand-in-hand, but the former does not cause the latter. Maybe being creative causes poverty though! However, even though this seems more plausible, the correlation itself is no evidence. We can’t conclude anything causal from a correlation.

‘Oh, but poverty makes you resourceful’. No it doesn’t. Being aware of resources make you resourceful. Poverty just limits your resources. A good thing? How is that a good thing? It's an imposition to have limited resources: an imposition which we accept and work around, because we have no choice.

Insanity might be the demon that destroys creativity. It might just be the searing delusion of personal grandeur, resplendant in hallucinatory visions of self-reference and destiny, with all the attendant paranoia, that undoes an artist. Now, that might be worth considering.

Plenty of great art has been made by people who went through periods of mental instability. However, we are not entitled to assume that what we admire in the likes of Syd Barrett, Roky Erikson, Brian Wilson and others was created from their insanity. It seems more plausible that it was created from their sanity, since their productive years were also their sane years. When they lost their sanity, they were unable to create comprehensible art.

'Oh, but they were really, really inspired on the run-up to the full-blown psychosis'. Isn't that tantamount to saying they were at their most creative when they were sane yet full of energy? Is that conclusion too obvious and commonsensical to be exciting to our romantic sensibilities? Or would we be equally comfortable saying that the acceleration of a car is caused by the crash that results from accelerating too much? The form of the argument which claims that insanity assists with creativity is the same, and equally absurd.

Sanity is definitely underrated, as it does not fit in with our rather romantic artistic schema. However, if an artist can give to his or her audience a dose of genuine sanity, what more is required?

As a basically sane artist who finds it hard if not impossible to work when too high, too low, too paranoid/delusional or too obsessive, I've always been puzzled by the alleged link. I have read several biographies of artists and writers (eg William Styron - "Darkness Visible") that take the opposite line, ie, that mental illness impedes creativity.

Incidentally I do think that Aspergers types (I don't high functioning autism as a delibilitating mental illness but rather a personality characteristic with marked advantages and disadvantages) tend to crop up in electronic music, especially in Kraftwerk-influenced electro. But my evidence in support of this is minimal at best. Just based on a handful of people I know really, not what you'd call good evidence at all.

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:20 (sixteen years ago) link

But in general, autists can't, in a basic fundamental way, relate to other people.

That's one of the things I remember from studying this in college. In experiments, autisistics show no ability to place themselves in another person's shoes. They don't quite seem to grasp the concept of other people having brains and inner dialogues/motivations.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Here's a good statement of the skeptical view that there is a link between madness and creativity, from an article on the Journal of Creativity by John Briggs (link below quote):

"The alleged link between pathology and creativity is strong in the minds of a great many creativity theorists, in fact an article of faith. And every decade it receives a new expression (the manic depressive is the latest). The reasons for this probably have to do with the profound uneasiness our culture has over uncontrolled creative activity. Labeling high level creativity as somehow pathological or necessitating pathology, enables us to keep it at a distance where we can admire creative products and ourselves avoid creative process-a process which is inherently destabilizing to our images and categories of self and society."


colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:40 (sixteen years ago) link

I have a number of online acquaintances who have diagnosed themselves with autism or asperger's, because they're a bit socially awkward. This seems a bit much to me.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Colin - you make some fair points. I did a talk in my diploma at RMIT where I correlated madness and literature, and managed to piss off a reasonable portion of my class in the process.

I don't think its fair to say "one must be mentally ill/mad to be creative" - in fact in severe cases this can and probably does impair anything getting done. It also probably isnt helpful to deify people with serious problems as great artists, if in fact they are completely insane and doing something like killing people (look at Chopper Read or Charles Manson for eg)

I'm not sure if I'm trying to make any kind of point here... and this is veering way off the thread topic, but it is avery interesting area.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 05:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Sorry for deviating slightly off topic too, but it sure is interesting, and apparently has a long history too. From the Human Brain Informatics Site (link below quote):

Even in Greece the relation between madness and genius survived. The written collection Problemata is usually attributed to Aristoteles who lived in the 4th century BC. One of the written documents begins with the question:
"How come that all men distinguished in philosophy, statesmanship, poetry or art are melancholics and some of them to such an extent that they are affected by the illnesses originating from the black bile (melaines choles), of which the story of Heracles tells us?"


colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 06:02 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe we need to start another thread on this, cos this is something I've always been interested in (then again so is autism, and other neurlogical/mental pathologies - I wanted to be a mini Oliver Sacks when I left school, but it was too much maths :/)

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 06:04 (sixteen years ago) link

I realise this thread is going off topic, but here's my own story.

Incidentally, this is my first post on ILE (I'm a lurker and occasional poster on ILM).

I didn't realise anything was "wrong" with me for a long time. I ended up drifting into working with street kids and abused kids in the UK and Western Canada. I was passionate about the awful treatment of these kids, and the indifference of "mainstream society" toward their plight. A few kids hit rock bottom. Worse.

Then, one day, I couldn't handle it any more; the stories seemed suddenly more brutal and stark than I could take. Toward the end of 2000, in one week, I lost two kids in a week; one, a 14 year old girl who hung herself in her basement after being bullied mercilessly; the other, a 14 year old boy who was beaten to death by other teens because he had "sold his ass" on the streets (and was therefore "a fucking fag", naturally). I walked away.

I thought I'd go back, but as the dust settled and I allowed myself to reflect on shit, I started to receive more and more memories from a past I thought I knew, like a bad radio connection. I thought I was losing my mind, memories of my own sexual abuse at age 8 surfaced, so after the usual denial and shit, I swallowed my pride and went to see a psychologist (okay, on the advice of my family doctor). Long story short, but I ended up on antidepressants, was given a diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder (exacerbated by the vicarious trauma of working so long with damaged kids) and clinical depression. Yeah, I was sexually abused as a kid. Yeah, I thought my mom had died after an accident I witnessed. Yeah, I was almost beaten to death by a street swarming in my early 20s. Blah blah. But suddenly I understood why the fuck I'd been working with kids all those years.

But here's the kicker. I wrote and wrote and wrote as a teenager. I played guitar and painted. I was a creative kid. But as soon as I started working within the so-called social services field, any creativity (in that sense) atrophied, died. I became damn near hollow. It's only in recent months -- since I walked away from a decent job, since I abandoned myself to chance, since I acknowledged my emotional meltdown and, more, moved on past it -- that the spark has returned, and I'm writing again, feeling again.

This is an admittedly simplified story. Pretty fucking personal and anecdotal too. But I wonder whether true artistic, creative impulses don't fully emerge after staring at oneself candidly, nakedly; that (stable or unstable) it might not require genuine courage in order to confront your (one's) true nature, after which the juices flow ceaselessly.

In other words, a proclivity toward depression is only part of the story. Grabbing it by the horns is just one way to shake everything up, assert your personality, say "I'm not gonna be seen as a collection of fucking symptoms in the DSM-IV for mental health professionals to wank over". I'm gonna get past this. (I can feel the palpable urge to burst into the "hold me closer, tiny dancer" scene in Almost Famous here, but, mercifully, I'll resist).

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 07:42 (sixteen years ago) link

That's an amazing thing to read, David. It reminds me much of the life of *my* David, who has found that, like you, the creativity and fullness of life seems to come only when he's able to confront and come to terms with himself. Thank you for being so upfront about your experience.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 07:59 (sixteen years ago) link

You're welcome. It was pretty scary, though. ;-)

Funnily enough, a really close friend of mine always signs off his e-mails with "keep passing the open windows".

Maybe there's a tribe out there, a web of connections, however tenuous.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:08 (sixteen years ago) link

*laughing* Tell that friend of yours that if he got the tag-line from The Hotel New Hampshire then I admire his taste. If it came from somewhere else, I'd be interested in knowing the source.

I can imagine it was scary, but that's what makes it even more impressive that you wrote and posted it ... blew me away (er, in a very good way, I mean). It brought tears to my eyes, which I think is a plus (I'm in the mood to cry, for some reason. You did well).

Let's form a tribe ... I'm all for a commune of fascinating people with which to grow.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:19 (sixteen years ago) link

Wow David, what a wonderfully moving post. And I think you've hit on something very important in your approach to this whole concept, also. It has puzzled me for a long time what the crux of the mental issues/creativity thing is, and I think thats a lot closer to it than anything ive thus far read/considered. Thanks!

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:28 (sixteen years ago) link

Here's me ignoring ILE in favour of ILM all these months and all the "cool" people have been here all the time!

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was from The Hotel New Hampshire, and yet, for some reason, I'm reminded here of the quote attributed to Lester Bangs in the movie Almost Famous (sure, all you hipsters, sneer away):

(apologies if it's wrong, but it's from memory)

"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool".

That's so oddly endearing.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:41 (sixteen years ago) link

Damn right all of the cool people are here on ILE!!! (And some of us cross-over to ILM, too, but only those select few. I'm not one of them.) Welcome to the friendly and quirky group of folks. I'm always glad to see another night owl. (Er, or day owl, depending on where you're posting from.)

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Definitely night (Pacific coast, Canada)! I'm an unredeemed insomniac. Although I'm going to have to at least attempt to sleep in a minute.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 08:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Hey, I like Almost Famous, so dont feel bad David! ;)

Damn did this thread ever get off track, heh.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 09:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, off track it has gone ... sorry, Orbit. I guess that's the pattern for ILE, but I do feel badly about it anyway (even as I contribute to the problem).

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 02:27 (sixteen years ago) link

Not off track at all. Thanks for all the interesting and thoughtful contributions, and I've love a reading list acutally! One of the parents brought in a recent issue of Time Magazine (not the best source for research) that was interesting, saying that 4 of five autistic children are male. I had some problems with the article in the genetics vs. socialization department, but as a lay article it was pretty interesting.

The over-medicalization of the humn personality that some people talked about is also a concern of mine; we are socially constructing 'disabilities' that once just suited someone to a unique place in the social division of labor. The autistic person who was unable to deal with social cues would perhaps do focused, complex work like woodcarving, copying manuscripts, being librarian, census-taker or some other job that required cataloging and attention to detail. Now that so much of that is done via computer, it doesn't surprise me that many of these people end up computer professionals and collectors of various things.

One of the things the Time article brought up was that autistic kids are fascinated by spinning objects, and prefer structures (bridges, buildings) over people when they are able to choose a photo of one or the other thing.

Keep it coming and thanks for the input! I'm having to learn a lot about ADHD, autism, and learning disabilities, medications, conditions that mimic other conditions and so on. It's a bit overwhleming, and all the input is very much appreciated.

Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 04:40 (sixteen years ago) link


Newsweek, for the week of September 8, ran a couple of articles on gender and autism. Basically posits the idea that autism is just a sign of someone being more masculine in their traits than feminine (er, I am way over-simplifying here). I'd link to the articles, but it's a pay-per-view site, so you might want to Google it or see what you can find at the library. The research that the article referenced might be of assistance, too. (My mother photocopied and sent the article[s] to me, and if I can find where I filed them at I'll scan them into pdfs and pass them along.)

Oh, something else interesting ... the article talked about early-intervention research, with children as young as a year old, and that seemed to have some good results, overall.

Anyway, I'll continue to pass stuff along as it crosses my path.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Thursday, 18 September 2003 06:29 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

I've been thinking about the origins of autism a lot lately, and it since it seems to have a lot to do with language, I'm wondering if the proliferation of media has any relationship to it, since the ubiquitousness of media = the ubiquitousness of language and signs that 'autistic' people have trouble with. This could be why interest in the subject keeps growing and growing, and we increasingly encounter autistic types on the internet.

This makes sense, since people who have this condition are attracted to computer jobs, and numeric language is finite. Autistic people I've dealt with have difficulty with multiplicity of meaning - it makes sense that they would become increasingly frustrated as the signs multiply.

Just brainstorming here.

it's mashed potato time! (dymaxia), Friday, 6 May 2005 17:39 (fourteen years ago) link

three years pass...

Guys my best friends 2 y/o kid was just diagnosed with Autism. They think with the communication level he has (eg pointing when he wants something) could mean that the diagnosis could be reversed at some point, posibly before he starts school but he needs serious therapy right now for that to happen. Her drs have told her he nedd software called B04rdm4ker (image recognition etc) which runs at the ridiculous price of $339US ($500+ AUD) which she cant afford. ANyway Ive looked around the internet (ebay included)and cant find anything cheaper. Any suggestions?

nowhere you can nick a copy on the net? a torrent or something?

stone cold all time hall of fame classics (internet person), Friday, 21 November 2008 22:45 (ten years ago) link

i dont know. i cant work that stuff out. any sites you can suggest?

if you google "boardmaker +torrents" there's quite a few hits. dunno how many are still up, i'm sure you must know someone who could help you out with this sort of thing without downloading a million viruses or whatever. i'm loath to recommend anything that might screw up your computer.

stone cold all time hall of fame classics (internet person), Friday, 21 November 2008 22:50 (ten years ago) link

thx guys!!

she should look better if she's gonna be a bitch like that (sunny successor), Saturday, 22 November 2008 01:32 (ten years ago) link

two years pass...


This is good news for people with mild autism that don't want to be classified alongside Asperger people (whom have very different mild autism characteristics).

Muttley vs. Mumbly (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 20:39 (eight years ago) link

Now if only the new DSM update will change PDD-NOS diagnosis so that it's no longer a free-for-all categorization of all autistic folk that don't fit into other autism diagnoses. I mean that's just lazy diagnosing.

Muttley vs. Mumbly (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 20:44 (eight years ago) link

Would prefer they used "Condition" rather than "Disorder". As a guy with Asperger's once pointed out to me, who's less disorderly than peeps on the Autism spectrum?

Deeez Nuuults (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 20:48 (eight years ago) link

i dunno abt that, ilx can get pretty restive at times

Romford Spring (DG), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 20:50 (eight years ago) link

ten months pass...


what will the world be like when autistic ppl outnumber non-autistic ppl? will non-autistic ppl be labeled empathetics? will they learn how all the faces on the chart mean the same thing?

Mordy, Friday, 30 March 2012 03:21 (seven years ago) link

what will the world be like when autistic ppl outnumber non-autistic ppl?

― Mordy, Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:21 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how im gonna make up something universal, doesnt even make any sense: IT"S THE TOP 100 COMEDY FILMS RESULTS THREAD

Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 30 March 2012 03:41 (seven years ago) link


iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 03:43 (seven years ago) link

crooked timber posting some good stuff about autism this week

Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 20:53 (seven years ago) link

two years pass...

Today my son was punching me, scratching my face, trying to gouge my eyes out, he ripped my shirt and he grabbed my glasses and snapped them. This violent anger is a newish thing to him, it was a rough day. People with ASC can be the worst and best people in the world within the same hour sometimes.

xelab, Friday, 13 June 2014 23:48 (five years ago) link

Hi all. This might not be the right place to ask as I know we tend to discuss more serious autism cases ITT. But has anyone had experience with Aspergers diagnoses? Was it worth it? Did it take a long time?

Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Monday, 29 October 2018 10:34 (ten months ago) link

for an adult or somebody under 18?

the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Monday, 29 October 2018 13:00 (ten months ago) link

imo we need an aspie/mild autism thread separate from this

imago, Monday, 29 October 2018 13:03 (ten months ago) link

for this autistic imperium is nihil reich for us!

imago, Monday, 29 October 2018 13:04 (ten months ago) link

when my son was diagnosed i think aspergers had already been phased out as the diagnostic criteria was redefined into the broader "autism spectrum disorder/condition". he probably would have received the aspergers diagnosis otherwise.

marcos, Monday, 29 October 2018 13:13 (ten months ago) link

i think it does make sense as a broad spectrum. my younger son doesn't have a diagnosis and probably wouldn't receive one if tested but we certainly see autism traits in him

marcos, Monday, 29 October 2018 13:14 (ten months ago) link

not much of a fan of the DSM in general but 5 is going to be fought over for years

the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Monday, 29 October 2018 13:15 (ten months ago) link

fwiw i think obtaining a diagnosis - whatever your individual circumstances, needs, or challenges might warrant, can be really helpful and very much worth the effort. for us, having something on paper has been really crucial as we negotiate for resources, funding, and therapies. we've seen friends, sometimes w/ needs that are much greater than ours, get denied appropriate resources and school placements merely because their child didn't have an official diagnosis. it gives the institution/system a pass for not providing anything. booking evaluations and appointments takes time and money for sure, it's a pain in the ass, but i think it can be worth it at least for our US experience.

ime w/ both my son and myself (ADHD), i try not to get too hung up on the specific semantics or greater meaning of the diagnosis itself, knowing that the dsm is a flawed, limited, and changing manual. do i think either of us has a "disorder?" not really. but having some insight into some of the needs we have and being able to leverage something in a frustrating and bureaucratic system to better advocate for ourselves has generally been useful

marcos, Monday, 29 October 2018 13:30 (ten months ago) link

that's way better than i could have put it marcos. i feel like in the UK at least it's always worth trying to get a diagnosis for a child, so much of what happens in our school system alone can hinge on "something on paper". my personal unprofessional opinion is that in adulthood it really is up to the individual - some people benefit from the process of diagnosis, it helps them to understand aspects of themselves and recognise that feelings of something being "wrong" come from a real place, it helps life make sense for them. for other adults (again talking about the UK) i don't know that the diagnosis really makes any difference to their sense of themself and society, and there are far fewer welfare and logistic advantages to being diagnosed as an adult i.e. services and support are thin on the ground. plus like you say, marcos, a lot of people don't think of this as a condition, just a part of who they are.

the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Monday, 29 October 2018 13:37 (ten months ago) link

no such thing as "more serious" autism, just the spectrum. Obv some people on this spectrum need a lot more help with daily living because of the challenges of sensory, vestibular, language issues that can become very complex within neurotypical society. But that doesn't mean so called milder autism doesn't represent its own challenges. I think the Aspergers label has become a bit problematic, seeing as the cunt was a complete aktion T4 player. But I don't see any issues with people using this thread to talk about it.

calzino, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 00:18 (ten months ago) link

one month passes...

complete aktion T4 player

Huh. Didn't see that mentioned in Neurotribes, but I didn't finish the book tbf.

I've been thinking quite seriously about seeking a diagnosis. My GP has agreed to give me a referral but asked me to write something about why I think I might have ASD and why I'm interested in a diagnosis. I was trying to explain on the phone that communication was an issue but didn't don't think I did a very good job of it. LOL.

They are reasonable questions and he needs something to support a referral, I guess. But it's proved hard for me to organise my thoughts about this, or work out what to say or what not to say. I mean, mapping a lifetime of experience of my neurology on to what I've learned about ASD is the answer to the first question, what other reason would there be? And why would I like to know if I'm right about that?

Wegmüller Fruit Corner (Noel Emits), Saturday, 8 December 2018 14:07 (nine months ago) link


read it and weep, unfortunately it's true :(

calzino, Saturday, 8 December 2018 14:12 (nine months ago) link

guys Robyn and Jamie from the Ouch podcast have their own show! it's called 1800 Seconds on Autism and i might have had something to do with it :)

calz et al i would love to know your thoughts.


non-iTunes link here:

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 8 December 2018 14:32 (nine months ago) link

I listened to a bit before the football started, Tracer. Very charming duo and so very highly intelligent and talking about jazz theory stuff I don't even understand after listening to it for decades! Good stuff though, and I do like them a lot.

calzino, Saturday, 8 December 2018 15:29 (nine months ago) link

yeah they are really good presenters full stop.

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 8 December 2018 15:50 (nine months ago) link

and I'm really glad you like it! i genuinely don't think there's anything else out there like it

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 8 December 2018 15:52 (nine months ago) link

Alex managed to have an MRI scan today. He needed general anaesthetic obv and I was quite concerned how this was going to happen, given that even flu jabs are an absolute nightmare. They give him a pre-med drink that he downed in one but then fought quite hard against, but eventually succumbed to. Then he woke up between the children's ward and MRI but he was still groggy and not strong enough to fight off the gas mask. It was all very autism aware and excellent work tbh. He was having a loud meltdown when we arrived and was quickly given a room to help him chill. There were a few bumps along the way, but it was at least a hundred times smoother than I was expecting it to be.

calzino, Friday, 21 December 2018 20:30 (eight months ago) link

it's good when people actually know what they're doing, yay!

Driving Drone for Christmas (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 22 December 2018 12:45 (eight months ago) link

If I ever get massively rich I'm gonna start a scholarship program for dentists to specialize in working with people with autism and dementia. And will fund practices specifically designed for that.

mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 22 December 2018 12:59 (eight months ago) link

I get the joke, it's funny, but I feel that the fact that the ambiguous 'messaging' bugs me is kind of an autistic thing. Or maybe it's just not a well thought out 'memme.

I mean, it literally appears to equate the claims of climate scientists with the arbitrary, coercive demands of greedy, sociopathic comedy mobsters, but vague 'context' is supposed to tell us that's not the intent.

Grim pic.twitter.com/xZ14XZh8AD

— Ireland Simpsons Fans (@iresimpsonsfans) December 29, 2018

The First (Noel Emits), Monday, 31 December 2018 10:16 (eight months ago) link

You've got the single word "grim" accompanying the post, which on balance is probably more likely to be a comment on the climate rather than on the conduct of climate scientists, although I'm not quite sure why, against the history of those particular characters.

The First (Noel Emits), Monday, 31 December 2018 11:05 (eight months ago) link

three weeks pass...

anyone got any good ideas for some classic autism friendly ps4 games? something colourful and fun, 3d world exploring type shit that isn't too demanding? god knows.

calzino, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:21 (seven months ago) link

"spyro reignited trilogy" might be the sort of thing you're after?

ufo, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:41 (seven months ago) link

popped this q on the ol group chat and they came back with knack (and its sequel), a platform game, & no man's sky, which is a (more grown up) exploration/survival space game, might be worth a look?

ogmor, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 08:59 (seven months ago) link

oh no wait apparently they're joking abt knack and its famously bad

ogmor, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:01 (seven months ago) link

I'm thinking Subnautica looks a good sensory/ambient/exploration world type experience, but it might have too much troublesome gameplay for Alex's liking.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:10 (seven months ago) link

A friend's son who is on the spectrum used to be really into Skylanders, the gameplay on that looked pretty straightforward but this kid was a bit younger than Alex, not sure about all the collectable toy nonsense that goes with those games

Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:16 (seven months ago) link

it's a shame that Stacking is only a ps3 game, i feel like they could be good

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:36 (seven months ago) link

my pals also suggest abzu on an aquatic theme, journey and little big planet.

ogmor, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:39 (seven months ago) link

the only interactive stuff he ever got into was cause and effect sensory light/sound box on the ipad. And years ago there was a very simple gameplay-free indie pc game that was a blocky 3d island to explore, can't remember the name of that one but if someone did something similar with the ps4's capabilities it would be autism gaming gold.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:47 (seven months ago) link

abzu deffo looks the ticket.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:47 (seven months ago) link

thanks for some of the reccs folks.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 09:58 (seven months ago) link

do you know about Flower and Journey calz??

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:35 (seven months ago) link

oh yes Flower looks perfect as well. I could imagine getting into myself tbh.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:43 (seven months ago) link

it's pretty amazing!

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:51 (seven months ago) link

got Journey/Flower/Flow in one bumper package for £20. I was quite addicted to Eufloria on ios at one point, and flower looks like a 3d variant of it with very beautiful graphics.

calzino, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 21:58 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

false appendicitis scare fun today that led to much panic and an ambulance to pinderfields, only to find he has a very sore throat! his pain management isn't great, and its hard to get to the bottom of medical problems at the best of times - he was screaming for an hour this morning so we thought the worst.

calzino, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 12:19 (six months ago) link

this week I've had the dog nearly die from ingesting a sock, one ambulance trip yesterday with alex's appendicitis false alarm and another ambulance trip this morn cos of his first epileptic fit in 6 years. I'm at war with some wannabe gangsta parents who think their kids can shout "you're fucking disabled" at alex. I've got my fuckwitted neighbour harassing me to put up a floodlight at the front of his house (which I stupidly agreed to do gratis when pissed up). Seriously would accept an invitation for a good old smack gouch rn!

calzino, Thursday, 28 February 2019 11:48 (six months ago) link

one month passes...


bad NAS joke but It Ain't Hard To Tell what the shady bastards have been up to here.

calzino, Saturday, 13 April 2019 10:20 (five months ago) link

one month passes...


I don't think i'll be able to watch this ep of panorama tonight. utterly sickmaking.

calzino, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 11:20 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

I totally verbally lost my temper with some little horrible thug who was pointing and laughing and completely adding to Alex's distress while he was having bit of a mini-meltdown/sensory overload because of the loud shit music they were blaring out, while he was entering the local swimming baths last night. But thankfully the nearest life-guard wasn't a complete dick and had the music turned off and read the riot act to the little shit rather than what i was expecting to happen. So not all bad on the autism awareness front, but there are still way too many arseholes out there.

calzino, Sunday, 23 June 2019 21:42 (two months ago) link

I hope you said something to this antagonist that really lodged in his gut & costs him personal comfort for months if not years.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:16 (two months ago) link

I’m so sorry, calzino

k3vin k., Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:29 (two months ago) link

As usual in the heat of the situation, I always think of the most sensible retorts afterwards and am feeling like I didn't deal with my temper very well, but I did mention something about disablism before I sternly told him to stfu. need to get better at this tbh!

calzino, Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:36 (two months ago) link

that was a good outcome anyway calz hope ye enjoyed the pool afterwards

godfellaz (darraghmac), Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:41 (two months ago) link

often to people with autism the pool is number one in terms of meeting their sensory needs, self regulation etc next to vestibular activities, so a good time is almost always guaranteed :)

calzino, Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:50 (two months ago) link

but I suppose being in water is the ultimate vestibular activity tbf!

calzino, Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:51 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

Boiler engineers, invadin' my space, puttin' test gear and oily rags on food preparation surfaces. Thankfully not too much small talk. Not one of my fave things but preferable to carbon monoxide poisoning I suppose.

Thank You (Fattekin Mice Elf Control Again) (Noel Emits), Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:20 (one month ago) link

I'd be sorely tempted to take the carbon monoxide poisoning over some Charlie Mullins bantz for real!

calzino, Thursday, 8 August 2019 12:32 (one month ago) link

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