You Want Superman Revamp? [Also the Man of Steel (2013) thread]

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You got Superman revamp!

Though the Azzarello / Lee team is the only one set in stone @ this point, I salivate like Pavlov's dog at the mere HINT of a possible pairing of Grant Morrison & Art Adams.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:42 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Obligatory hook for Leeee - GREG RUCKA is mentioned in connection w/ the Big Blue, too!

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:42 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

so, 2004 is Year of the Superman.
Yeah, whatever. Does he still have that lame-o long hair? Y'know the Stamos Head?
How come fashion is always like 7 or 8 years ahead of comics?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:48 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

have you ever been to a comics convetion, horace?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:53 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Clearly not - 7-8 years is shockingly generous.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:54 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Comics are just pre-emptively nostalgic, Horace. (cf. Brother Voodoo, U.S. 1, Team America, Brother Power the Geek, Madman, Land of Nod, Ragmop, Rob Liefeld's new Youngblood series)

And THANK JOR-EL Supes ditched the mullet, just before he turned into White Lightning (in his pants).

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I didn't want a Superman revamp particularly but I will say that the late 80s/early 90s 'weekly' Superman comics are good and underrated, when it was perfectly content with ticking along at #65 in the sales charts (or whatever) and telling strong soapy stories.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Of course the stone cold proof of this fact is Dazzler. A Disco powered superhero in 1982!

She had roller skates on too. The comics version of Xanadu the musical - she does have the distinction of being one of the few heroes to have taken down Galactus. WIth her rubbish pop singing or something.

Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:57 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

just like in robotech!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:58 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Dazzler is so underrated it isn't funny. (The character, I mean; I don't really no her solo series but her stint as a reluctant X-Man is one of the best character arcs Claremont ever wrote IMO.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 July 2003 14:59 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

will say that the late 80s/early 90s 'weekly' Superman comics are good and underrated

I loved those. The Dan Jurgens and Jerry Ordway stuff was fun. It was just as the romance thing was starting to heat up. I got in on the Eradicator storyline where El Supo transmogrified into the cold-ass "Son of Krypton" and he had a hot outfit.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dazzler is hardly the most ineffectual mutant, tho

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:01 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

let us not forget: the guy who can TRANSLATE LANGUAGES

surely this is the most blatant piece of comic book nerdity-sublimation evah

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Haha CYPHER!

I loved how outraged people became when Doug caught a bullet. My main reaction was, "Well, what did you expect? Dude went into a combat situation where no one was looking out for him and logic prevailed. (Warlock used to cover his ass but he was off with Sunspot in the Fallen Angels miniseries.)

I read a fan-fic where they ramped Cypher's power up from being able to interpret languages to being able to assimilate information, kind of like the way people had skills uploaded into their brains in "The Matrix" (only predating that by about 5 years). It almost made him a viable member of the team. At any rate, he's a character who's solely suited towards research/diplomacy and I'm glad that Louise Simonson didn't shy away from offing him.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:12 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Poor old Cypher was killed off, too. Big fucking help Warlock was. (PERRY X-POST!) (FALLEN ANGELS!) PS - Claremont's done a similar thing again in X-Treme X-Men w/ Sage, a "living supercomputer" lady. Wretched idea, tho Grant M. had a li'l fun w/ the concept in a recent issue, having Bishop reboot her (har har har - no, not like THAT) (hotkey != G-spot!!!).

Tom, are you talking about / standing up for the post-Byrne & Crisis, pre-Jurgens & DOOMSDAY! shenanigans? I'd have to agree, actually (tho I missed the Byrne / Kesel art combo). I'll wait for Mr. Skidmore to hop in & voice his displeasure re: this era, given he's not a fannie of the modern-day powered down Supes (unless he's Supe-d up again).

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:16 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, everything from about Wolfman leaving ADVENTURES to Doomsday, though even after that you got some good stuff and they still had the occasional great plotline last time I was paying attention - but after Doomsday there was this event-every-six-months mentality which was really annoying.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:21 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, the stuff directly after Doomsday (but before the mullet)was pretty entertaining. & Jon Bogandove was FANTASTIC on _Man of Steel_. But, yeah, re: the upcoming changes, I'm just jazzed that folks whose work I really enjoy (well, excepting Chuck Austen - I hope that's just nonsense talk) are jumping on board in place of folks (Joe Casey, Joe Kelly, Steven Seagel) that never did much for me, tho I imagine what they've done is just fine.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 15:43 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Chuck Austen seems all but a lock. Grant Morrison hasn't been named to one of the Super-books yet. Go figure.

Smart money puts Mr. Morrison on Green Lantern at this point, sadly.

Looks like all of the current creative teams on the Super-books will get replaced at this point.

Semi-related, The Ultimates may be a thing of the past, as Mark Millar/Bryan Hitch are now in the running for books at DC as well.

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:32 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Grant Morrison on Green Lantern = more control over what happens, less iconic -> New X-Men -> Win
Grant Morrison on Superman = No real control over the big picture, totally iconic -> JLA -> Win

Now, Grant Morrison on Spiderman or something, that'd be a shame.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Chuck Austen - ugh. Supposedly, his work on the _Superman: Metropolis_ mini has been pretty good (according to the opine of a few fans), but whenever I flip through an issue of _Uncanny X-Men_ I get gangrene & liver spots & gout IN MY HANDS. Sweet crap, a recent issue had Husk & Jubilee standing over the grave of some Gen X character (Skin?) w/ Jubilee saying, "I wish I was lying naked next to him right now. I wish we could have sex." It makes me weep for the young male teenagers of America who are indirectly divining the mysteries and wonders of the female mind from shit like this.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:47 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Obligatory hook for Leeee - GREG RUCKA is mentioned in connection w/ the Big Blue, too!

Damn that Rucka. He's making me buy books I swore I'd never read.

Leee (Leee), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'd heard he killed Skin. They also got his name wrong.

Captain Butter Underpants (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 July 2003 18:16 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'd heard he killed Skin

Abstractly, this is beautiful.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 July 2003 18:36 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

MY GOD THAT NEEDS TO BE A T-SHIRT.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:55 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Lois in fishnets!

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 21:05 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I was about to say, was that Lois' get-up before she decided she wanted this change or was this her way of thinking she'd fit in?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 July 2003 21:34 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

My God think what havoc that device could wreak on ILM!

Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 July 2003 21:36 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

STrife & H0ngr0 to thread!

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 28 July 2003 23:04 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

so being black has something to do with body mold? gross!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:48 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"It's important I live the next 24 hours as a BLACK WOMAN!"

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:53 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

(I also like how her dress gets darker, too!)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:54 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe it was MLK day and she wanted the day off work. Black people get MLK Day off right?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:57 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I thought those post-Byrne pre-death issues were pretty good, as it happens. Far better than the titles have been in some years now. I just thought Byrne made loads of mistakes, but they have mostly, gradually, been set right or become forgotten or faded away.

Grant on anything is terrific. Grant with a really good artist is obviously even better. Grant and Art Adams on one of the great characters, one of my favourites, one Grant has already proven he can do exceptionally well, would be almost brain-meltingly wonderful.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 20:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH.

According to DC, the writers on the 3 Superman titles (Superman Adventures of..., Action Comics) will be (respectively) Brian Azzarello, Greg Rucka, and Chuck Austen. Here are excerpts of what Austen plans on doing to Superman (via the Millarworld boards, via an interview @ CBR.com - LINK). Not WITH - TO. Since this is as down as I can feel regarding a fictional character, I'm gonna go fictionally throw up and then have a fictional weep or 26.

**************

"Clark will no longer be the star reporter. Someone is hired in his place to bring in a 'younger demographic' and Clark is shunted off to one side doing shmoe work. And the guy who replaces him is a jerk who he hates, and Clark can't understand. This makes no sense. He's a great writer, blah, blah, blah. Just like you and I feel when someone doesn't give us our due. When someone else is given the promotion we deserved.

[...]

"What will make it unique, I guess, is that, hopefully, it will all be unexpected. Everything will be fresh and surprising, and human. I don't see Clark as an alien, at all. I see him as an average Joe farmboy with incredible powers. The alien thing was just an excuse to give him powers. If we can't relate to him on any level, if he's alien and rich, and successful, and happily married-oops, did I say that out loud-then there's nothing for readers to hang onto. I already told you Clark won't be the star reporter. That's somewhat new. And that's the smallest change I asked for. Wait until you see what I do with Bizarro. And Gog is back. Woof. I'm having fun."

[...]

And that story was originally written as a 'Superman and Lois have a miscarriage.'

[...]

"So to all that, let me just say ... Lana's single again. And she liked Clark as Clark first, and then also as Superman. Much healthier.

*****************

UGH. If this is the plan, bring back the mullet & the lightning bolt. And Black-Like-Me Lois. And the Supercar. And clones.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 19:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

see, and this is why kids don't buy comics anymore. because the nerds won.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Clark finds out that when he returned from the dead, he wasn't the real Superman, he was a clone the Cadmus Project had cooked up to get themselves out of the shit for the Doomsday thing, what with Doomsday killing Superman and all ... and now the real Superman is back, having kicked around with amnesia and the alias "Jordan Elliott," and he wants his life back! Wah! Look at all the foil covers! Wah! Is it all a Luthor plot? Wah! Wait, maybe the CLONE Superman is the REAL Superman! Wah!

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

(Crosspost, I think I just proved Horace's point.)

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

but at least your ideas are about SUPERMAN, not Clark and his ladies. I mean, I read (past tense) comics for the adventures, not freaking soap operas.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:05 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I think the problem is that when a character has been around this long, and you're dealing with a market that you at least think wants constant "new and different," there's this pressure for writers to "do Superman like he's never been done before!" -- but honestly, none of the above sounds greatly different. The pendulum just swings back and forth between different takes on Superman, and anything original seems to get shunted off to Elseworlds type books. (Making Luthor president was a cool idea, though.)

The Spider-Man Clone Saga thing, it sucked the way it was written, but the idea itself was at least a good example of doing something new with a character that a) didn't depend on lukewarm "reinterpretation" and b) came directly out of what had gone before.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:14 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, lord - the Spider-Man Clone Saga. Knowing that was happening kept me away from the funny books for a long while.

I take offense at the "the nerds won" thing, becuase the nerds would most definitely concoct some sort of continuity-weighted logistical pretzel (cf. Clone Saga) than some warmed-over soap-opera potboiler. Of course, maybe Austen is just a horny nerd - his storylines in various Marvel books involve contrived lovelines & triangles & other types of polygons w/ dialogue that would melt Joe Eszterhas at 50 feet (cf. the example I posted earlier in this thread). Also, he's been lambasted by various "internet trolls" for his questionable characterization of various female characters. It's also worth reading that CBR interview to read the paragraph where he refers to old-school Lois Lane as a "gold-digging bitch" (paraphrased, of course).

I'd like to think there's a happy DMZ between continuity acknowledgement and devil-may-care hooptie where good stories involving established comic characters can be created and enjoyed. For the love of monkeyfuck, there's no need to play "the other woman" card AGAIN!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:24 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I don't see Clark as an alien, at all

He's not an alien, he's Jewish!

Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 20:26 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

The best thing they could do with Superman is just reset every 10 or 15 years, tell the story again starting from scratch, and avoid getting bogged down in this sort of thing. Superman marries Lois? Aww, lovely, but let's end it there because otherwise some 'conflict creates character' dick like Austen will come along and suddenly Superman will be in a boring love triangle. Next time round Superman can get together with Lana for a bit, fine, whatever.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 08:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I take offense at the "the nerds won" thing, becuase the nerds would most definitely concoct some sort of continuity-weighted logistical
pretzel (cf. Clone Saga) than some warmed-over soap-opera potboiler.

Okay, maybe I should have said Evil Nerds. Or possibly Dorks.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Another thumbs up for the post-Byrne, pre-doomsday days. There were some great titles those days. You had Giffen on Justice League, GM in Doom Patrol and Animal Man, Shade, Hulk, DeMatties on Spectacular Spider Man. Loadsa stuff. That was a fun time to be a 13-year-old kid reading comics.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

On the basis that there's nothing toogeeky that can be said in this thread, Monarch turning out to be Hawk was one of the all-time cheesy comic rip-offs. The kids got screwed!

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Holy Cow, I'd forgotten all about that. I quit buying comics shortly before that was revealed.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I've forgotten who he was meant to be.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:52 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Captain Atom, wasn't it?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 31 July 2003 15:53 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Many xps

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:12 (four years ago) Permalink

(now I will fully admit I am speaking solely from the movies and the 30s-40s era comics of Supes I read, so I more than welcome someone with more of a vested interest to step in)

XPOST BEFORE ZOD

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:13 (four years ago) Permalink

comic book stories feature absurd, inexplicable things (like a guy who can stop power locomotives) and (ideally) resonant dramatic allegories. if one negates the other for you, tough shit your movie theaters gonna puke 'em at for you the next decade

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Metallo

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:14 (four years ago) Permalink

i do wish snyder would find the gritty, more "realistic" way for superman to re-employ his "spin the world backwards and turn back time" power.

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:16 (four years ago) Permalink

anyway w/ his 'abilities', Superman ultimately isn't supposed to be merely an 'action hero' guy, which is where the latest film I think got it wrong by basically turning the 45 minutes into Kryptonians turning a city into mush. I mean, yeah, when you make a Supes movie, you gotta have montages of him showing off his powers, that's a given. Supes I and II managed to keep the balance between that and his Kent persona nicely, so that by the time you arrive at the Kryptonian Royal Rumble at the end of Supes II it's been built up to and is riveting, and yet the climax is basically Superman being smart enough to protect his city by moving the fight away from the civilians!

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:16 (four years ago) Permalink

Luthor essentially did this in Superman 1! after crippling him w/ Kryptonite, he sets off multiple warheads on opposite sides of the US and dares Supes to stop them both! and in fact, Superman arrives too late to save Lois, which woulda been an awesome conclusion if not immediately followed by the biggest motherfucking plot hole in the history of movies.

― getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, April 27, 2014

was this the christpher reeves movie? been so long since i saw that, i can't even remember it (except that reeves and the lois character had real chemistry).

plenty o pathos to be mined here if thats what u need. If yr primary concern is "its too easy for him to beat bad guys", I dunno thats kind of minor, and there are plenty of canonical bad guys that confound Supes' supposed innate superiority. Metalli, Brainiac, the Tyrant Sun, the sillier ones like bizarro and mxyzpltlk...

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, April 27, 2014

you're right; the he let-his-dad-die thing was interesting.

comic book stories feature absurd, inexplicable things (like a guy who can stop power locomotives) and (ideally) resonant dramatic allegories. if one negates the other for you, tough shit your movie theaters gonna puke 'em at for you the next decade

― da croupier, Sunday, April 27, 2014

like i said, fair enough. but the batman movie was interesting, especially the michael keaton ones, to me, because of the tortured and unwell mental state of the character. the iron man movie was interesting to me because of how the character's arrogance potentially got in the way of his heroics. so there's a lot to be done with superhero films, i think. but yes, i think the world would be a better place if we had a 10-year moratorium on superhero films.

Daniel, Esq 2, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:17 (four years ago) Permalink

though man even supes II has that "haha pulled a switcheroo on ya somehow, now to throw you into the random death oits i've got at my house"

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:18 (four years ago) Permalink

death PITS, i meant

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:18 (four years ago) Permalink

xxpost c'mon even by comic standards the time turning thing was ridic - I mean if he had that power why not keep doing it til like he arrives in 1930s Germany and kills Hitler or something. basically any time he fails he can just spin that world backwards and go 'oops do over'.

not to mention, how many other people died the first time around in that lil disaster that he didn't go back and save after time was 'restarted' simply cos they didn't look good in a nightgown.

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:19 (four years ago) Permalink

man it's embarrassing how much more poignant dad's stroke in Superman was than Kevin Costner being a dick in a tornado was in Man Of Steel

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:20 (four years ago) Permalink

Supes II has holes too, yeah. and namely how he got his powers back, which was of course explained in the cut footage. I will say though I wasn't a big fan of the Richard Donner cut of the film, although it did some things better. actually the first half hour it did better I think.

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:20 (four years ago) Permalink

tough shit your movie theaters gonna puke 'em at for you the next decade

― da croupier, Sunday, April 27, 2014

ew.

Daniel, Esq 2, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:21 (four years ago) Permalink

yeah the entire first suite in Supes 1 is genuinely affecting as hell, to the point where he first takes flight as Superman it's almost a spontaneous applause moment. Costner's tornado moment was one of those 'look around at other audience members to see if you're in on a practical joke and they're gonna show the real scene next' moments.

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:21 (four years ago) Permalink

like, did they mean to set up a situation where clark has these issues thanks to a paranoid red state dude but then he meets his real dad who turns out to be a real dragon-riding, eco-conscious badass?

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:23 (four years ago) Permalink

maybe he heard Shoeless Joe's voice in the tornado or something idk

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:23 (four years ago) Permalink

Snyder got a few moments right, like his mother talking to him when he's locked in the closet and stuff, but then we have moments like Superman dealing w/ a dick bar patron by flinging his semitruck on top of a telephone poll.

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:25 (four years ago) Permalink

*pole

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:26 (four years ago) Permalink

maybe i'm underestimating snyder - superman is america, jor-el is blue states, pa kent is red, and supes likes to beat the shit out of people from outside america (which he is!), even if it means wrecking his own cities.

WOAH.

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:26 (four years ago) Permalink

sometimes I think Snyder makes films without thinking about how each piece fits into the greater narrative, but rather by saying "give me 7 scenes where <character> does <action>, and we'll sprinkle them throughout". like one or two moments of little Clark having an existential crisis or being ostracized weren't enough, let's basically turn it into an Afterschool special for alien superheroes.

xpost LOL

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:28 (four years ago) Permalink

all this time Snyder was making his own Fahrenheit 9/11 and we never knew

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:29 (four years ago) Permalink

in the sequel america will deal with the influence of bloomsberg types (Batman) and koch brothers types (Luthor)

da croupier, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:31 (four years ago) Permalink

Superman is also not necessarily all-powerful! Even the original movies dialed him substantially down from how out of control he'd gotten in the Silver Age, and John Byrne's Man of Steel series rebooting the character in the 80s followed up on that - more 'super duper tough' than 'invulnerable,' etc. Recall that he originally couldn't even fly - he leaps tall buildings in a single bound. So there are lots of ways to take the character that aren't necessarily God On Earth. I think the immigrant story is very rich with possibilities, and if taken seriously could be a great way to make the character relevant: America has a lot of immigrants these days after all. Do him as an immigrant who does struggle, play up the ways people might misunderstand him or find him threatening. You don't want to turn him into Spider-Man or the X-Men in the "hated and feared" sense... but certainly there'd be something to the idea of a guy who comes here as a child, is equally not-at-home in American culture as in his Kryptonian fortress, who is trying really hard to do the things he's been told are right and yet still gets misunderstanding and shade thrown his way.

I do agree that this could be tough to square with the messianic quality which certainly is part of the character's appeal: it's nice to think we have a guardian and a savior, but neither of those seem to make for flawed, complex, relatable characters. Potentially a better movie could be about ordinary people in a world where there is a Superman, but alternately you could say that the pathos of Superman is in his effort and his faith. If he's Jesus, it's Jesus at the moment of questioning what God is setting him up for. This is why the Flaming Lips go for the moment when something is too heavy for Superman to lift - we know without a doubt that he absolutely is trying his best and it is breaking his heart that he is failing. Oddly enough this is his closest connection to humble Spider-Man, whose most famous scenes revolve around the very same thing: trying to save Gwen, lifting up that pile of machinery with all the water streaming down, or in the movies, trying to save everybody on the train when Doc Ock is attacking. This is the kind of stuff that should slot into a Superman movie very easily, with Pa Kent standing in for Uncle Ben and some slight shifts in motive.

A totally different hook might be to do what the Fantastic Four films should have done and failed to do, and make it a brain-melting Grant Morrison sci-fi thing; Superman is one of the superheroes who can go on impossible quests to the centers of stars or between molecules and not have it seem like a weird graft. This would require actual imagination in the film-making though, to call upon CGI for something other than smashing up skyscrapers and alien robot guys or w/e.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:32 (four years ago) Permalink

lots of interesting possibilities in dr. c's post.

Daniel, Esq 2, Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:40 (four years ago) Permalink

Even tho it made no sense and was a redundant device to sell toys, I always liked the design of Superman's punching rocket jet thing. How do you take three of the most superficial and easily graspable qualities of Superman and put those into a vehicle? You make it blue, fly really fast, and(this is the best part) give it really big fists for punching.

Stephen King's Threaderstarter (kingfish), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:44 (four years ago) Permalink

I have no problem with more Marvel Studios superhero films, as long as they focus on character and/or do the genre-within-genre thing that IM3 and Winter Soldier pulled off

Stephen King's Threaderstarter (kingfish), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:46 (four years ago) Permalink

I like the part of this movie where superman is trying to fly up to the spaceship and it's really hard and he can't do it for like 2 minutes but then he goes "rawrrr" and does it

Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 27 April 2014 17:07 (four years ago) Permalink

Totally agree w dr c supes scifi angle, kal el as neil degrasse tyson

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 27 April 2014 17:12 (four years ago) Permalink

dr casino otm re superman = jesus, but jesus questioning his purpose. that for me is the appeal of superman. it's not what he can do with his powers so much as his powers giving him a false sense of self

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 27 April 2014 17:38 (four years ago) Permalink

Would love a film about Supes retiring from crimefighting and becoming host of The Late Show

getting strange ass all around the globe (Neanderthal), Sunday, 27 April 2014 17:55 (four years ago) Permalink

I guess I can accept Superman being boring in the way that for me Super Mario World is also boring.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 28 April 2014 00:56 (four years ago) Permalink

comic book stories feature absurd, inexplicable things (like a guy who can stop power locomotives)

these things totally happen in The King Canute Crowd and Who Will Cut My Hair and Minnie's 3rd Love

Gritty Shakur (sic), Monday, 28 April 2014 01:09 (four years ago) Permalink

Super Mario World is also boring.

Out.

Stephen King's Threaderstarter (kingfish), Monday, 28 April 2014 01:46 (four years ago) Permalink

When's the last time you played it?

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 28 April 2014 04:30 (four years ago) Permalink

3 and 64 both much better but i mean, yoshi

difficult listening hour, Monday, 28 April 2014 04:32 (four years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

the one thing that sticks in my mind is the ending, when Zod is shooting his heat blast at the family, and it is inching closer and closer to them, all while struggling in a headlock with Superman. physically it just wouldn't work like that, the heat blasts would be flying all over the wall. as it is Zod would have to stay stationary and veeeerrry slooowly turn his head towards the family, at fractions of an inch.

movie was full of dumb stuff but that was like cartoon logic.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 27 March 2016 23:47 (two years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

Henry Cavill sucks

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 03:29 (one week ago) Permalink

WHY DON'T YOU SAY IT TO MY COMPLETELY NORMAL FACE

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/justice-league-henry-cavills-mouth-superman.jpg

Mom's out working, for fulfillment (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 04:35 (one week ago) Permalink

This week's episode of Legends of Tomorrow sees Brandon Routh grow a moustache for spurious trivial plot reasons then try and disguise it for most of the episode by holding bits of paper in front of his face.

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 07:54 (one week ago) Permalink

lol for real?

We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 09:24 (one week ago) Permalink

I should also point out Legends of Tomorrow is absolutely killing it this season.

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 09:47 (one week ago) Permalink

heh, that's good

brandon routh really deserved a better shot at superman than superman returns :(

We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 09:48 (one week ago) Permalink

Ha, I look forward to seeing that when we catch up on the DC shows (halfway through last season so that's only collectively like...um, 100 episodes...jesus). I like him but he is such a dork on Legends that it's difficult to remember he was ever Superman.

Mom's out working, for fulfillment (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:25 (one week ago) Permalink

I should also point out Legends of Tomorrow is absolutely killing it this season.

Couldn't agree more. The writers and actors are hitting a perfect tone of light and serious, and obviously having fun with plots requiring going undercover at Woodstock and at a summer camp. Best of the Berlanti crowd, by far.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 15:21 (one week ago) Permalink

Can i skip the earlier seasons and just start this one then?

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 17:45 (one week ago) Permalink

Given that I've seen everything up to about a year ago and still strain my brain trying to remember how certain pieces wound up arrayed across the board in this particular arrangement, I'd go with 'no'. Although it's also total froth of no real consequence, so I might also go with 'yes'.

For a superlative chug, only the eggiest nog will do! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 17:49 (one week ago) Permalink

i could just dive right in, like i used to read comics!

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 18:13 (one week ago) Permalink

Well, sure! I guess, yes, that approach probably isn't advisable for general audiences, but for life-long comic fans it's probably like sinking into a warm bath.

For a superlative chug, only the eggiest nog will do! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 18:25 (one week ago) Permalink

(If only they would occasionally have a '*See Arrow Season 4, Episode 15' text box pop up, the experience would be complete.)

For a superlative chug, only the eggiest nog will do! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 18:28 (one week ago) Permalink


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