Terrorist Action 11/9/2001 - Thread 5

Bush will address the nation at 9 pm tonight.

Still no real details about precisely what's going on in Kabul. Video on CNN is really grainy.

What is Afghanistan's military strength? Like Paul said, are there going to be nukes flying about? (Although, judging from events today so far, it'll be the entire world vs. Afghanistan, so maybe they've been judged to be a small threat.) This is insane, the US cannot be justified in doing this yet can they?

As reported on CBS, a high ranking U.S. official stated he doesn't believe the U.S. has anything to do with what's going on Kabul right now. Reeeallly freaky.

so what exactly IS going on there, anyone know?

The Taleban have already emphatically denied involvement on their own part and that fo bin Laden. They're nutters, but are they this insane?

Afghanistan on its own probably doesn't have a massive traditional armament, but I suspect retalliatory tactics in the event of full-scale war would be along the lines of guerilla attacks and continued terrorist attacks on the US mainland.

Also note that as a fundamentalist Islamic nation, they'd possibly draw *some* support from the rest of the Islamic world, and it wasn't so long ago there was a big fuss about Pakistan having nuclear capability. Quite what the fall-out (pardon the pun) from that one would be, I don't know.

They're nutters, but are they this insane?

are u referring to the Bush admin, govt. here?

Frank Gaffney is making that funny vein on the side of my head throb. The US commentators on Newsnight seem to be trying to outdo each other in hawkishness. If any of these people have the ear of the government I am very worried indeed. Bill Clinton's old defence secretary has repeatedly described the WTC as the centre of civilisation.

I post rarely to ILE/ILM because of lack of time or because I'm busy reading old ILM threads to get a hang of the ongoing conversations. But I do like the feeling of a community here, one that's saner and more humane than most. I've been checking in on these threads all day, since the sharing and concern for particular people is more real to me than anything I get on radio or the news websites. I don't think I know anyone who'd have been in the Pentagon or in the two towers. One of my favorite human beings in the world lives in lower Manhattan on John St., and I imagine him going to the WTC subway station at 9:00 AM and getting hit, but he's a writer and probably doesn't need to go anywhere at 9:00 AM, and he'd probably go to City Hall station anyway. My parents called to tell me that my brother and his family in Arlington are all right. There's no way that they'd not be all right - they live a half hour's walk from the Pentagon, but they don't work there or go there, and they'd have been farther away at work or school at the time of the attack anyway. But this is the sort of event that just makes people want to call each other, so I understand my parents' phone call. It's like what makes me post this rambling message now, without anything really to say, except "Thank You" to ILE/ILM, though I can't specify what I'm thanking you for.

Ehud Barak is practically frothing: 1) even if it's not Bin Laden we should still go and bomb the shit out of him and 2) even though the NMD wouldn't have prevented this attack, the fact the attack happened means it should certainly be implemented!

Frank, you're right. There is a need to be thankful for free ranging discussion with immediacy but largely without hysteria, to deal with this, particularly when all other info is so mediated, partial, partisan and narrow in its speculation.

It's going to take a while for everyone to calm down, I guess, and no drastic action should be taken until then.

Personally, I feel really weird. Kinda scared. Is this how people felt during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Kate is stranded in New Jersey now, so I'm all alone here and feel like I have no-one to turn to, no- one to talk to. I don't want to go to work tomorrow and really want to just draw my curtains and shut out the world, or alternatively get on a plane and put the world to right. One or the other. I just don't want to continue muddling through. Weird.

if anyone wants to meet up uptown (W116th columbia area) mail me

if kate wants to get in contact with me, I don't know if she can get back into manhatten, she's welcome to try and get here

Kate is in New Jersey. Once she has her luggage her Mom will pick her up and take her home. I wish I could speak to her and find out how she's getting on with all this. Her Mom said she was fine, but you never know.

I'm in Hoboken, NJ, Paul, 20 min. from Newark. I don't think anyone is being allowed to get near Newark International. I wish I knew how to get to Kate, or get some message to her, but she's probably safe there. Probably doesn't help you any, but e-mail me if there's anything you think I can do.

I know she's safe. She's at the airport still. I guess I'm just being a worry-wort. I just feel so damn powerless here. I'd like to be able to fly in and rescue her, if that makes sense. Hell, we're not even dating anymore but she remains a very good friend.

I've written her e-mails and spoke to her Mom. She's to call me at the first opportunity. That's all I can do I suppose.

"Personally, I feel really weird. Kinda scared. Is this how people felt during the Cuban Missile Crisis?"

I feel very scared. Very scared. One of the things which struck me at work today before I left was how few people seemed generally/genuinely upset by all this. Admittedly,

Gah.

Admittedly, they didn't have loved ones who were in downtown Manhattan today, but still...this is a nightmare. A big black hole I can't get my head around.

Maybe they had not been following the full scale of events unfold via the media.

This is as massive event, certainly one of the most memorable in large scale events I can remember in my lifetime - on par with the onset of the Gulf War.

I have read a couple posts on various forums about fights breaking out between whites and Arab-Americans. There is a large settlement of Arab-Americans around here and I sure as hell hope there won't be any random BS pulled on them. What a great country, a real melting pot -- and certain people wonder why their fellow Americans aren't proud of their country.

I've been thinking a lot about the last time people around the world were glued to the media in this way, when Diana died. The scale and atrocity of what's happened today put the complete folly of the national mourning and hysteria over one person's death into a whole new perspective.

Apparently the wife of some official (media correspondent called Barbara Olsen?) was on the Pentagon plane - she rang her husband from her cellphone to report that the flight had been hijacked. They're keeping schtum about the nationality of the attackers but they used as weapons plastic-handled Stanley knives; these apparently slip through luggage inspection/X-ray quite easily.

Ed, glad to know you're safe and that Kate is okay too. Paul, if you do come to work tomorrow, come out at lunchtime.

They're evacuating everyone south of Canal Street. (That's WAY downtown, for non-New Yorkers), including the Lower East Side and Battery City Park. They just announced this and said it's being done to assess the scope of devastation.

I said earlier that I almost got into a fist-fight with some asshole who was talking all sorts of racist shit about Arabs and Muslims. Claiming that they teach their kids to hate and kill non-Muslims, to beat women, and that all Arabs should be rounded up and deported. So I'm not surprised that there's some people stirring up shit against Arab-Americans. The owner of one of my favorite sandwich shops here in Hoboken is Lebanese, his name's Samir -- when I was walking home from the coffee shop, I tried to stop into his shop to see if he was OK (that is, no-one was giving him any shit), but the store was closed shut. I really hope Samir is OK. And my heart and prayers are with any innocent Arab-Americans who suffer any bullshit today.

Barbara Olson was the wife of the U.S. Solicitor General, Ted Olson.

I *have* to go to work tomorrow: no choice there as I never get sick days! I'm just not going to be able to sleep tonight, I suppose. Still, what else is new?!

Jess: at work, afternoon London-time, I found out thru ILE, thanx to Dan and the indefatigable DJ Martian. I'm not employed to post to ILE, oddly enough, so I kept shtumm for a while, until the story had broken and was confirmed of the Pentagon strike. Then I kind of told people something serious was going on: only I heavily downplayed it. By saying. I think it's a BIG THING, the net is all rumours, you can't get into grown-up news sites. Actually ILE was on the money, and I perfectly knew that: but I couldn't bear to deal with the reality of everyone else's feelings in the office, as they processed the full thing. They will find out later/just let them in gently: this wuz my coward's way out. And I left work early, because I was getting so spooked. Just before I left, the editor said, "It feels really weird working on little stories about ceramics when the world as we know it just ended."

People put on an everyday face to protect "the others" (I sure did): so you don't always know what they're actually thinking inside.

This is rather scary. From Usenet:

http://groups.google.com/groups? hl=en&frame=right&th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177% 40monitor.lanset.com#link1

If the body of the post doesn't make sense, take into consideration the subject.

This person also makes another post on the fourth, which is double scary.

Can you dupe that? Cannot get into it.

Andy, I couldn't get it to work. How did you find it? What group and subject?

I badly need to buy groceries so that I can eat, but every time I think about leaving, I see some other story breaking.

Right, I'm going back to my hotel now. Thanks again to everyone for keeping ILE up-to-date and sane. Being on my own in the US would have been a lot more difficult without you today.

Mark: True enough. I was putting on the "brave face" myself for an hour, still going to a meeting with one of my vendors, almost holding back tears since I had yet to hear from Julie. Eventually he just took off his glasses and pushed all the merchandise off my desk into his box, saying "it seems kind of ridiculous talking about potato chips right now I think." But, even after the news was "confirmed" (your afternoon being around my 10 am? i assume)...since I too had first learned about it from ILE...even after the radios had been playing non-stop for two hours in the office, even after the photos I printed out from CNN had circulated around the office...nada. I guess I can't explain the atmosphere accurately enough; jovial seems wrong, but I certainly couldn't differentiate it from any other work day. (Excepting, of course, my own freaking.)

madchen in nyc?

More on Nostradamus

In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654

That is just scary. But it could just be some asshole so don't jump to conclusions.

You know, this isn't the end of the world as we know it. Maybe it's the start of something better. Human nature has a habit of triumphing over adversity, and becoming stronger because of it. So they blew uo the WTC? We'll build a bigger and better one. A lot of people died today, and they shouldn't die in vain. People need to take a step back and see the big picture, that so much of what they believe in doesn't count for shit.

I spent this afternoon in a weird state of shock. I was part of a skeleton crew left at work, and my boss was asking me to sue x and issue writs against y, and write letters to z. And all I could think was so many people died today, and I'm meant to ignore that fact? Shouldn't I be investing my time in finding out why they died and changing that? It's perspective, I guess. We are all insignificant in so many ways. Any moment we could just blink out of existence. And when I think about what would happen if I'd been killed today. I 've achieved nothing, I've just wasted my time doing a job I hate in the belief it'll pay me back in the end.

I don't even really know what I'm saying here, I suppose. I just think we should be made stronger by what's going on here. Accusations, flying off the handle, kneejerk reactions... they do nothing. But there is an opportunity here for the world to actually come together for once, to work together and maybe fight for some freedoms that got lost in the drive for a balanced budget.

I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to make things right with blinkered idealism. But I don't think we should all be becoming pessimistic, or that we should be giving up.

Unless the attack is unequivocally tied to some McVeigh types, I'm worried about what's going to be done to U.S. citizens who are Islamic, or of Arab descent, or who just look "weird" in some North African or central Asian way. Or immigrants and travelers. My thought here is that individuals can do something constructive where they live to mitigate the racism. I'm a rock-solid atheist, but it I've seen that in these instances religious officials sometimes have good instincts - interfaith councils and the like. As do people who've been organizing against racism in some other way. (Which I'm ashamed to say I have not been.) I don't have any specific ideas. Again, I just felt like posting.

Oh, and I think looking at a group called alt.prophecies.nostradamus is not helpful in any way, shape or form. Seriously.

Paul in Phoenix Boy shocka. Hooray.

It worked after I copied and pasted, but here goes. It comes from alt.prophecies.nostradamus.

---------- Message 1 in thread From: Xinoehpoel (tesnal@psl.moc) Subject: 911 Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus View this article only Date: 2001-08-31 11:03:37 PST Something is going to happen tomorrow. This is a witness against everyone on this newsgroup. I hate this newsgroup, and everyone on it sucks. REPENT! You are all evil liars! Do not be so evil, and be holy. You are going to get me killed because of the truth of my mouth. I am not telling you what is going to happen until it does, because an EVIL and adulterous generation seeks for a sign. ----------

Cut -- note the subject of the post. After the first of the month, a number of posters took him to task for "tomorrow" coming and going without incident. The following post was made on the fourth:

---------- From: Xinoehpoel (tesnal@psl.moc) Subject: Re: 911 Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus View this article only Date: 2001-09-04 12:40:28 PST Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away in seven days, and you will not hear from me again. X

Thanks for both your posts, Frank -- thoughtful and to my mind quite accurate. I sorta knew ILE would be a better place than anywhere else, and thankfully such has proven to be the case.

I received the link to that from another forum. I assure you that I am far too paranoid by nature to frequent a newsgroup like that. If I frequented newsgroups like that, I would attempt to have some form of surgery that would allow me to constantly spin my head as I walk.

911, Brits, is not just today's date, it's the American 999.

Denver, Ed. In the middle of nowhere and on my own, but safe, if numb. Really am going back to the hotel now.

Bush's speech has been moved up to 8:30 PM Eastern time.

Which means I'll miss it, I'll be on the bus. Some post a quick precis. In the meantime, the White House denied they were behind the Kabul attacks and the Taliban opposition said it was them. Opportune.

As usual, Stratfor (sort of a private intelligence gathering network) comes through with the best commentary of the situation.

http://www.stratfor.com/

I have to go to bed, I guess, and get my usual five hours... Don't work yourselves into a frenzy here, okay? Or a deep depression. As impossible as it seems everything *is* going to work out.

BBC news fairly sure Kabul explosions are part of ongoing internal strife (main opposition leader to Taliban assassinated or perhaps just nearly so on Sunday: these missiles retaliation for that and entirely unrelated to WCT events). Stress this just a guy on the BBC, who was only fairly sure at best.

Wolf Blitzer on CNN, and a US senator denied categorically this was the result of a US strike.

HOw coudl we ever exact revenge for this? Never. Its senseless. Its so evil.

From the site that Chris just forwarded (great site, Chris!) - 'U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Sept. 11 that there is “no way” that the United States was involved in bombings reported in Afghanistan's capital Kabul... Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia Sept.12 launched a massive attack against opposition Northern Alliance forces north of the city. The attack follows allegations that Northern Alliance commander Ahmad Shah Masood died of injuries he received in an assassination attempt Sept. 10. Taliban and Northern Alliance forces have been winding up the summer fighting season over the past few weeks with extensive clashes north of Kabul, and in the northern province of Takhar. 2240 GMT, 091101...'

I feel it's only fair to point out (a bit late, but I've been round at LC's explaining the situation) that just because everyone is pointing the finger at Bin Laden in a rather suspect way doesn't mean he wasn't involved. It seems to me it's quite likely he was, I mean, it's a pretty impressive show of force, eh?

Sorry - I will pay for my paraphrasing and recontextualizing: [Insert here]'Explosions around Kabul do not appear to be the result of U.S. action, despite speculation that that Saudi militant Osama bin Laden, who shelters in Afghanistan, was behind today's terrorist strikes in New York and Washington.'

Describes the complex cell organisation of Al-Qaida Al-Qaida Tops Suspect List - The prime suspect in the spate of terrorist attacks against the United States is Osama bin-Laden's organization, Al-Qa'ida.

200 firefighters presumed dead. 78 police officers missing. Jesus christ.

I realy doubt it was Bin Laden for some reason. He knows if he did this he and his followers would get blown to bits. Its probably a coalition of terror groups

One oddity I've noticed is everyone claiming this must have been a massive organised operation. I think everyone's finding it hard to face the reality that it would only require a very small group of people to pull this off, and perhaps not even long term planning.

But..his organisation is an umbrella coalition of groups, a united front with a common unity of very strong anti-american feeling.

He issued a big threat in June against the US.

I believe he was involved, he knew about it.

It is reported that since mid august he has gone underground/ hiding somewhere in the mountains in Afghanistan.

"coalition of terror groups" = intrinsically far less secure, thus far more likely that even US security wd have stumbled on enough actual concrete frightening detail to take action. Terror groups don't generally coalesce; though sometimes they horsetrade (which is where any leakiness comes in, if it does).

Mark, read the link I stated above about AlQaida

An umbrella organization with an operational reach that stretches around the globe, Al-Qa'ida has been extremely successful at maintaining a high level of security and secrecy.

Despite the best efforts of several world powers, bin-Laden's organization has continued to support or facilitate acts of international terrorism. No nation has successfully penetrated the organization.

This is partly due to the fact that Al-Qa'ida operates as an umbrella group supporting a host of cells around the world. Instead of a centralized leadership, the terrorist organization develops autonomous cells capable of operating individually without a central command. Additionally, Al-Qa'ida coordinates operations and activities with various other terrorist organizations around the world. The hierarchy of the relationships remains unknown.

some radical splinter group then?? god only knows how the US will react should Iraq's fingerprints are anywhere to be found.

GWB speech summary: "This may shatter steel, but it can't dent the steel of American resolve"

He ended with Psalm 23 (Shadow of the valley of Death etc I shall fear no evil, because you are with me)

The new-age mystic stuff I just saw in this thread made me repost this: it's time that folks get down eaven MORE with SCIENCE AND THE LAWS OF NATURE, look at the mess faith in superstitions made, working with the hypothesis we are dealing with some uncritical fundementalists here. I am proposing concrete memetic warfare. Every thinking person must deconstruct and destroy the presensce of system in their thoughts and actions: System of State, Nation, Gouvernment, Capitalism, Patriarchy, Religion, Material Possession, Famely, Ego, (Culture, Language and Thought too at some tricky extent). The method is to ONLY use aestheticly pleasing logic argumentation. I would appreciate references on this topic, comments, anything constructive really. I have strong opinion on the direction of such a method, if anyone is interested. Think of everything you know about radical philosophy, critical philosophy, think of everything it might mean to love everything and apply it with 100% focus on yourself and network with people sharing these values. I know many of you already have taken this road to different degree, focus is the thing I propose. To the world we knew ended, this is a challenge and a workable alternative.

a postmodern man with no quality

Martian I did try to go into it, but my crappy computer hung: thanx for posting it here. However if this is all there is, it's just yet more unspecific speculation: ask yrself who is gathering this particular intelligence and why? Security forces are always after funding: they get it by endlessly bigging up vague yet momentous nebulous threats. Until we get confirmation of who exactly was in the cockpit of at least one of these planes, I don't buy this stuff. It's simultaneously too-little-too-late and too-much-too-soon.

What woudl we even do to Iraq? Nuke them off the earth? I mean they are already pathetically weakened.

I didn't know there were so many ILE people from New York. The first thread was really scary; I'm glad you're all accounted for. I don't know anyone directly in that part of the city, but a few of my friends have family living and working there. I hope they find all of them.

One of my friends is a Pakistani Muslim, and she's been hearing people crying, "It was the Muslims!" all day. A stranger asked her if she was related to bin Laden. I can't understand thinking that way and it is making things so much harder for her.

I think the only way to stop this happening again is for America to stop pissing off everyone.

I think we can safely discount the use of nuclear arms against Iraq. The atrocities as a result of a nuclear strike would make today's events look as serious as stubbing your toe.

I suppose we'll "know" more (hopefully? possibly?) once the black box is recovered from the plan which went down in PA. (The only one to survive?)

THis is like some Godzilla movie or something. You knwo what's weird? Last night I dreamy taht there was a huge cloud of smoke rising from a city. It was BOston, but still...

stevo/stefanrood posted a recent quote from bin laden on the ObL thread: it may of course turn out to be hideous hypocrisy, but ObL was pointing out — not entirely unjustly — that the US has not always itself well maintained the distinction between civilian and combatant casualties when planning its own bombing raids. If a retaliation is coming, then it can only secure moral force if it is UTTERLY SCRUPULOUS abt this distinction where the WTC strike was so utterly contemptuous. Which *ought* to rule out nuclear strikes against Baghdad or Kabul or anywhere else more populated than not with ordinary unwarlike people totally unconnected to this act. We shall see.

Lyra I am very glad you are safe: I recalled you were somewhat out-of-town, and kept my fingers x-ed. You yourself can be a help and a safeguard of sorts to yr Muslim friend.

mark: i would hope you can get to bed soon. it's what: 2:30 there?

I posted this on the end of the last thread, but I'll post it again here. On eBay there are hundreds of listings for anything tenuously related with the WTC - Posters, Postcards, Books, even a Peanuts cartoon with a vague skyline which turned out to be Chicago. Some people are buying (inc some big bucks), some appears to be being shut down by the eBay folks. This is beyond sick.

I have photos in my camera. I think I'm going to throw them away.

About.com have put this together Where to Find Current Disaster Information

In light of the horrifying terrorist attacks against New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington, and the appalling human trauma and loss of life, here is a guide to sources of helpful information on the Web.

i was talking to my brother about tom clancy novels last night. he was explaining the plots while i was condemning them for inventing a threat to US security to justify economically agressive foreign policy. then this. it terrifies me.

Fuck. New Footage of bodies falling - this is too much to take. i am officially numb and logging out. You all are great, though for keeping this thread going - it's kept everyone somewhat sane...

How are we supposed to go on with life after this?

The biggest bone I have to pick with Bush regarding his speech was that he failed to mention anything about the many Arab-Americans in this country; a plea for non-violence/verbal abuse surely would have done his listeners/watchers some good, no?

Another disturbing thing is how these hijackings are being called cowardly by the same people who are calling for extreme, violent retribution.

The Dead Flag Blues -- indeed. (Thanks to Duke Harringay for making me listen to the first Godspeed record again.)

Mayor Giuliani is on TV again. He's saying that they found some survivors and that he's hopeful they can find more. Things have stabilized down there, not as dangerous as before. But he's also telling people that casualties will be in the thousands. As I said before, I've been critical before about Giuliani but he has been nothing but superlative today.

After he's done, I'm shutting off the TV and getting some sleep. I can't take watching the buildings blow up or people jumping to the street anymore. And I just discovered that an acquaintance from another e-group I subscribe to hasn't reported in (and I think he used to live in lower Manhattan).

Please pray for these people.

How are we supposed to go on with life after this?

One might as well ask how there could be poetry after Auschwitz, as was asked at the time.

And yet here we all are.

Sleep if you can. Then face the day.

So glad you all are ok. I was very worried. I'm still in shock. Still can't believe that both towers are just *gone*... the morning light will be grim. No one is talking about it (for obvious reasons) but they even evacuated us all here in downtown Toronto - not that it helps me any as I live right down here too. There was police tape around the CN Tower, 'rush hour' home was at ten am, police at the subways, all our flights are grounded until tomorrow noon, men with machine guns are apparently patrolling Pearson airport to guard the planes. The bank didn't let us go until later than most but we had the TV and radio on as it was unfolding - many saw the second plane's impact on the live broadcast. I could handle the brave face mentality that some people had, but when there was some normal chatter and laughing, I just had to creep off to the staff washroom for a secret cry. All I could think of was those poor unsuspecting people. And the footage... :( ... emoticons are so insufficient.

They have Tom Clancy on CNN. Why not someone who writes analysis. I am now seeing my first images . It is alot more horrific to see.

They're now saying there's at least 800 dead at the Pentagon. 300 firefighters in New York. Death tolls are now speculated in the high thousands.

WHY do news production teams feel the need to ADD drama to this disaster via stupid 'punchy' music and splashy graphics? argh..

also... world-wide stock market drops are beginning to be reported as I'm typing.

um, I just wanted to say that I really feel for you all. I have been feeling shocked and horrified all day, so I can only imagine what it is like for those of you in the U.S.A.

I dont really know what else to say but this: Sometimes since I have been coming to ILE, things you have said have cheered me and made me feel less stressed or crazed or alone or whatever.

I wish that I could do the same for you. Obviously this situation is too big for anyone to do anything about, but I still care and when I first heard the news, you were the people I thought about first.

WHY do news production teams feel the need to ADD drama to this disaster via stupid 'punchy' music and splashy graphics? argh..

This is precisely why I'm not watching any more TV coverage of this.

FYI - it seems that there are plenty of upset eBayers enraged by the audacity some folks have for posting WTC-related merch (photos, paintings, posters, etc.) up for sale, and have been making ridiculous bids (upwards of $10,000+) on these auctions to muck up their quick-buck plans. This is assuming that aliases like "you_sik_fuk" aren't linked to actual bidders willing to drop that much cash on a WTC pic.

My "Escape From NY" persona has slipped, I have fallen into deep depression, I can't wait to get the Massachusetts this weekend, come hell or high water (literally) I'll get out of this city Friday.

Sorry Ally. THis is horrible. I feel such greif. I can't be my usual asinine self. But "tart" anyways. Hope you end up on the up side.

It's good to see that some things always remain the same. At least I'm still around for you to call a tart, I can think of it that way.

ILE -- the spirit still thrives. :-)

I just want to sincerely thank you guys for lifting my spirits a little. I know I haven't been posting much lately, but school's just started up and I'm super-busy. Being in Virginia (William and Mary College), I know a lot of people whose parents/friends work in the Pentagon, and others who have loved ones in Manhattan, etc. I too have gradually become queasy after the gut-wrenchingly predictable news coverage and "official" reactions, and I'm so glad I decided to check out the threads herein. I've never even met any of you, but I feel so much better knowing that you're all okay. It's so refreshing to see level-headed discussions and genuine mutual care right now. I just want to thank you all before I go to bed... it's been a rough day everywhere, and I wish you all the best.

Channel 4 have found foootage of the first crash into the WTC.
After a night's restless sleep, still feel too numb to adequately express how I feel.

Tranatlantic flights due to restart 5pm (midday New York).

Key to all this may be: wreckage of 4th jet in Somerset County. Around 3:30pm BST (10:30am EST), I'm sure I saw a brief shot of USAF fighters scrambled to 'intercept' 4th hijacked jet on CNN coverage. Sometime later this was reported as down. Tiny snippet on Ceefax this morning (and may just be poorly-phrased and inadvertently ambiguous) about man on 4th jet (Newark-SF) making cellphone call and being cut off *after* an explosion. Shot down?

As it's the only jet to crash on open terrain, I guess there's a fair chance of recovery of black-box recorder/bodies of hijackers/etc.

BTW, Kabul explosions confirmed as rocket attack by opposition forces. No (direct) US involvement.

I was away from the 'net for once and watched the whole thing on telly after scariest text message ever "Get to a TV. New York is on fire." We heard reports that the Internet was down so stayed in and watched rather than try and get here to EasyEverything. I just want to say how glad I am that everyone I know in NYC is safe: I am still enormously frightened and worried by the geopolitical situation, and the fact that even if people I know are OK, they will surely know people who weren't.

Thanks DG for moderating so well and thanks everyone for using ILE.